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Should there be an end period for the Dole?

135

Comments

  • #62
    Executive Steve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,373 ✭✭✭Executive Steve


    Darlughda wrote: »
    Acceptable?
    Do you have any comprehension of what it is like to be unemployed since 2007?



    The chap is probably 19 years old and posting it from his parent's house.


  • #63
    Ouijaboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭Ouijaboard


    Typically Irish, this seething being directed at people on the dole lately is getting out of hand.

    We'll end up rioting and burning the dole offices to the ground when we should be directing our anger at a different group altogether.....

    ...those fcking FF cnuts!


  • #64
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    cougar1 wrote: »
    Typically Irish, this seething being directed at people on the dole lately is getting out of hand.

    We'll end up rioting and burning the dole offices to the ground when we should be directing our anger at a different group altogether.....

    ...those fcking FF cnuts!

    In fairness, I don't think it's wrong to question anything, whether it be the performance of our government, the payment of long term unemployment benefits, or the wages of the public / private sectors. In fact, it's healthy to discuss these things & the fact that our government are screw ups, doesn't mean that no other debates should be held.

    Sure, you get some flippant, stupid & angry comments, but you get that no matter what you're talking about.


  • #65
    Boxoffrogs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 458 ✭✭Boxoffrogs


    starbelgrade wrote: »

    I have another mate who went straight onto the dole when he left school & has been getting welfare benefits for almost 15 years now. He knows every trick in the book - he works part time, but only on the days & up to the number of hours such that they won't reduce his dole payments. His girlfriend is the same. They've also got a kid & she gets single mothers benefit as they say they aren't living together. They've also got a rather nice house from the council, basically rent free.

    This is a guy who is not educated, wants to work as little as possible, couldn't be ars*d going to college & has paid feck all PRSI into a system that gives him a lot back (& keeps on giving).

    There is something deeply & inheritantly flawed with our social welfare system. It breeds dependancy on handouts, promotes single motherhood and fails to support those who paid into the system, even in times when they need it the most.

    One question, why are you so friendly with this character? They are clearly breaking the law and stealing from you, the taxpayer, so have you done your duty and reported them?


  • #66
    Ouijaboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭Ouijaboard


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    In fairness, I don't think it's wrong to question anything, whether it be the performance of our government, the payment of long term unemployment benefits, or the wages of the public / private sectors. In fact, it's healthy to discuss these things & the fact that our government are screw ups, doesn't mean that no other debates should be held.

    Sure, you get some flippant, stupid & angry comments, but you get that no matter what you're talking about.

    I agree totally, It was meant tongue in cheek. There is a bit much vitriol being directed at the dole queues recently tho. The media are partly to blame....recently there was much talk about a border town having more people signing on than there were living in the town. There was even a section on primetime about it.

    What came out later was the truth that a large number of people signing on there were sent there to alleviate pressure on a couple of adjacent towns dole offices which were overflowing with newcomers....do ya think that got a primetime slot or a six one news explanation or even a decent paper spread, no it was a minor section on a few national news sheets that cleared that mistake up.

    Also back in the good times?? Quite often a large number of people on seasonal , contract or part time work signed on at different periods....so I would say that that 100K who were signing on when the country was in full employment were mostly taken up with these people and not the dutch gold drinkin/rollie smoking trisha viewers we all like to blame for this countrys ills.

    Alot of sensationalist crap doing the rounds about the dole.......imo FF are the big target and need to be ejected if we are going to get the country running again.


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  • #67
    Bootsy.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 456 ✭✭Bootsy.


    Has nobody considered that if the dole was cut off after a certain period, it's very likely the crime rate would go through the roof?
    People have to get money from somewhere to survive... muggings, burglaries, theft, drug dealing??? It's called 'Social Welfare' for a reason and as a society we're lucky to have it.


  • #68
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    diddledum wrote: »
    One question, why are you so friendly with this character? They are clearly breaking the law and stealing from you, the taxpayer, so have you done your duty and reported them?

    I have no truck with him & I would never grass up a friend, no matter what they did, bar something like murder or a sex crime. My gripe is with the system as it clearly allows itself to be open to corruption & abuse, whilst providing little or no protection or support to those who have contributed to it the most.


  • #69
    sponsoredwalk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    mise_me_fein1 wrote: »
    They're not contributing.

    I've never minded paying for people who don't want to work, it's their choice. Not all people work because they have to, some people want to :eek:, others don't, all live with the consequences. I believe one of the finer aspects of human morality is the right to choice, is it not?

    Who knows how many people the spire could have housed (4 million worth!), or not buying them voting machines that are still in storage (over 50 million!), or the infamous Bertie Bowl (estimated at between 450 to 550 million from online browsing - do your own!), or the 60 million government jet & the many, MANY costly trips about 5 links there ;). Would this ridiculous amount of expenditure imply that these would be the ares to focus on in the future?

    No! Take the money away from the poorer people instead ;)


    One might call it slavery encouragement to get a job by taking away all of their money, inadvertently, implying they have no right to live if they are not a happy cog in the machine, it doesn't change the patriarchal & forceful nature of the act, impersonal I might add & luckily so for it's hard to actually do these things to someone in person.

    Just because they do not contribute does not mean they do not deserve to live ffs..

    I only wish there was a way to pay for those people who have to sleep outside & that more people cared instead of theorizing of more ways to put more people out with them ...

    If we were to follow up on some of the comments in this thread for real people would die because of it, that's not a joke either :mad:

    It's sick how some of you view other people as wage liabilities because the country is now in a mess, suddenly everybody becomes a walking euro sign & an expense.


  • #70
    Boxoffrogs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 458 ✭✭Boxoffrogs


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    I have no truck with him & I would never grass up a friend, no matter what they did, bar something like murder or a sex crime. My gripe is with the system as it clearly allows itself to be open to corruption & abuse, whilst providing little or no protection or support to those who have contributed to it the most.

    I get where you're coming from, I don't really think I could either in spite of the fact that it is blatant thieving.

    I am myself, currently receiving support from the state. I also happen to be parenting alone, so I am lambasted on several fronts in spite of the fact that I've worked solidly in decently paid employment for ten of the twelve years of my son's life. He will be going to secondary school this September and I am desperate to go back to full time working then.

    We really do need to ditch the mindset which says that everyone claiming benefit is having a rare ould time and sure it's such fun that they don't bother applying for the gazillion jobs that are available.


  • #71
    Gunsfortoys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭Gunsfortoys


    DarkJager wrote: »
    You are forgetting that a lot of people who are now unemployed are in the age of 50+. Ageism is still alive and well in most employers (I have seen proof of this myself), so the truth is many of these people may never work again. So lets say a person of 56~ loses his job and signs on the dole. He applies for numerous vacancies but just gets PFO letters back. In your theory, his dole is cut off after 3 years despite his lack of employment being caused by bad business ethics.This makes him 59 years old, 6 years away from his pension and without a single source of income. Do you see how flawed and badly thought out your idea is?


    This is a great point, people would never think of this aspect in the state of affairs the country is in.


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  • #72
    theboxer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 220 ✭✭theboxer


    sponsoredwalk wrote: »
    I've never minded paying for people who don't want to work, it's their choice. Not all people work because they have to, some people want to :eek:, others don't, all live with the consequences. I believe one of the finer aspects of human morality is the right to choice, is it not?

    Its their choice not to want to work alright. Unfortunately, the working man has to subsidise them. He has no choice in the matter.

    There are hundreds of thousands of people unemployed through no fault of their own. No issue with them. But why should ordinary workers subsidise parasites?

    Nobody wants to get up at 6am and do an eight hour shift, but functioning members of society realise that it is a necessary evil.


  • #73
    thebaldsoprano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭thebaldsoprano


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    I have another mate who went straight onto the dole when he left school & has been getting welfare benefits for almost 15 years now. He knows every trick in the book - he works part time, but only on the days & up to the number of hours such that they won't reduce his dole payments. His girlfriend is the same. They've also got a kid & she gets single mothers benefit as they say they aren't living together. They've also got a rather nice house from the council, basically rent free.

    This is a guy who is not educated, wants to work as little as possible, couldn't be ars*d going to college & has paid feck all PRSI into a system that gives him a lot back (& keeps on giving).

    Your mate is thankfully in the minority. In the boom years, around 2% of the workforce were long term unemployed (1 year or more). You can find the figures here and here if you're nerdishly inclined like meself :)

    The system does need to change alright, but the last thing we need is those FF buffoons whipping up some media frenzy to take money away from a lot of people who badly need it and it would work at the drop of a hat. All the while hanging on to pay and entitlements themselves that'd dwarf Cowen's bulging spare tyre.
    theboxer wrote: »
    We should scratch the one payment across the board system. Why should the worker get the same payment as the leeches?

    Ist Six Months - 75% of your previous salary.
    After Six Months - 50%
    After a Year - 25%
    Second Year - Congratulations, your food stamps are in the post.

    For those whom have paid less than 100 PRSI contributions, heres a nice and crisp fifty euro note. Dont spend it all at once. Gotta last you the week.:)

    Spain has something like this AFAIK.


  • #74
    melekalikimaka
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    i think alot of people turn down jobs cos the dole pays more, i detest this, dunnes and other super markets are almost constantly hiring... i find it bull that people can't find jobs... people just cant find jobs to suit themselves.


  • #75
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    The other thing I could possibly see being introduced (as is being proposed in the UK) is to usher in some kind of community service, Ie those signing on do a certain amount of work for the state to earn their keep.

    I could see no harm in it provided it is not abused. People would feel better off contributing than sitting on their hole all day. Those that refuse to cooperate would have to get the boat.


  • #76
    inforfun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,860 ✭✭✭✭inforfun


    theboxer wrote: »
    We should scratch the one payment across the board system. Why should the worker get the same payment as the leeches?

    Ist Six Months - 75% of your previous salary.
    After Six Months - 50%
    After a Year - 25%
    Second Year - Congratulations, your food stamps are in the post.

    For those whom have paid less than 100 PRSI contributions, heres a nice and crisp fifty euro note. Dont spend it all at once. Gotta last you the week.:)
    thebaldsoprano wrote: »


    Spain has something like this AFAIK.

    Holland has a system like that.
    First 6 months = 90% of last earned salary.
    After this it is 70% for 2,5 years
    Both upto a certain maximum.

    After this is back to something you would call the dole here. Which used to be +/- €600 a month for a single person. Might be a bit more nowadyas.
    Then of course there is all kinds of exra benefits as childsupport, rent relief and so on.

    It is not a miracle that in Holland after tax has been taken off your salary you are left with only half of your money.
    People in Ireland might think it is heaven here for those who don't want to work. Well... try Holland.

    The system here is really unfair on 1 point for sure and that is that someone who dropped out of school, arsing around since is getting as much as someone who recently lost his of her job after working for X amount of years.

    Just look at the post of Starbelgrade to see how seriously f*cked up the system is and it should be overhauled fast.


  • #77
    Mister men
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭Mister men


    Only if you wear a tracksuit and complain about the lack of faciliteeeeees.


  • #78
    super_furry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,387 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    melekalikimaka wrote: »
    i think alot of people turn down jobs cos the dole pays more, i detest this, dunnes and other super markets are almost constantly hiring... i find it bull that people can't find jobs... people just cant find jobs to suit themselves.

    Never been on the scratcher in my life but seriously, why would you go to work for less than you get paid on the dole? It doesn't make any sense.


  • #79
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,217 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    All that the poll shows is that "yes" people have jobs and haven't a fcuking clue what they are talking about...

    Same whiners will be sprinting to the dole offices to claim as much as they can when they lose their jobs, which I hope they do, will give them perspective and maybe a little bit of cop on.

    The only time you should look down on somebody is when you are helping them up.


  • #80
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,217 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    melekalikimaka wrote: »
    i think alot of people turn down jobs cos the dole pays more, i detest this, dunnes and other super markets are almost constantly hiring... i find it bull that people can't find jobs... people just cant find jobs to suit themselves.

    Well that's the biggest load of shíte I have heard to date... Stop talking crap. Fancy showing these 450K jobs that are out there?

    Get of that fcuking high horse of yours...


  • #81
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    A complete over haul of the social system is whats needed. Ill give you an example. My gf got laid off last march. She has a masters degree and computer systems, and has always wanted to be a sys admin, but during the boom years all she could ever get was support jobs. She got laid off and went on the dole. Now that she had extra time on her hands she decided to try and get some experience, so she went to a couple of IT companies and asked could she intern as a junior sys admin. She said she would do any and all work that she was aked to do, including going for coffee for people if asked. In return she would get hands on experience with servers and learn some of the skills a sys admin has, at the end of which she could get a reference and it would be some relevant experience. Alot of the companies she spoke to were very keen on the idea and would give time off for her for interviews and the like, but the social welfare said she couldnt do it because to get Job seekers you have to be available for work at all times. If she wanted to continue getting the dole, she had to bin her intern idea and basically stay at home.

    So the system doesnt reward people trying to better themselves. Instead it closes doors for them.

    Thats what really irked me about bill cullens comment on prime time when he said people should go out and get experiences etc. while on the dole. It really irked me, because the system does not let you do that.

    No there shouldn't be a cut off of the dole, the system needs a complete overhaul, and it needs to work for people not against them. The majority of people on the dole at the moment paid for it in the past and will pay for it again. Benefits fraud is a seperate issue, and therefore should be dealt with differently. Someone on the dole for 10 years unskilled, never contributed to the dole, who says they cant get any work should be given work to do, and if they dont do it, then their dole should be cut.


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  • #82
    Greyfox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,280 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    Mise mé féin (Me Myself) Your username sums you up.

    Go educate yourself. Better still apply for over 300 jobs over 5 years and not a chance of an interview, yet still keep going.

    Find out what life is really like for the majority of people who are long term unemployed and absolutely ****ing hate it every day of their waking lives and would do anything to be in a job.

    Do not lie. You do not know lots of people who are content they are ****ing accepting their situation and how dare you make such ignorant threads and make such assumptions about people who are struggling day to day?

    But what about the people who aren't making that much of an effort to get another job?

    Yes most people on the dole would do anything for a job and are fighting hard to get off it and us employed people understand this, it's a horrible situation to be in. BUT what loads of people defending the dole seem to convenienely ignor is the FACT that their are still plenty of people out their that are CONTENT with staying on the dole and can't be bothered looking for another job.I was at a house party last week and a guy their gets his dole and €90 rent allowance, he spends all day every day either on the net, reading books from the libruary or playing computer games and shops in Lidl all the time. Now most people out would be miserable with this but this guy is VERY HAPPY with been on the dole and has no intention of looking for a job and theirs loads of people like him out their.

    Their are two groups of people on the dole, theirs the majority which are decent, honest people who don't have a job because through no fault of their own their are no jobs out their and their fighing an uphill battle to get a job, I don't slate these people because I could be one of these people in 2 or 3 years time. But theirs a minority of people who are lazy wasters getting free money and benifits that aren't trying to get off the dole, some of the money wasted on these people could be used to help give all Irish people a future again.


  • #83
    Greyfox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,280 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    mise_me_fein1 wrote: »
    Thanks...

    self employed = create employment, pay tax, work hard and perhaps deal with stress.....NO DOLE

    Long term unemployed = large possibilty not trained in anything, never contributed to society, free house, free health, many allowances, no intention on looking for work...... SUSTAINED BY THE VERY PEOPLE THAT WILL NOT RECEIVE DOLE IF THEY GO BELLY UP

    +100

    Of all the things wrong with the country this is the biggest. We desperately need people to create jobs so our children might have a future but instead of the govenment encouraging this their making sure to put off as many potential self employed people as possible...this pretty much sums up the intelligence of the people in power


  • #84
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,217 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Greyfox wrote: »
    But what about the people who aren't making that much of an effort to get another job?

    Yes most people on the dole would do anything for a job and are fighting hard to get off it and us employed people understand this, it's a horrible situation to be in. BUT what loads of people defending the dole seem to convenienely ignor is the FACT that their are still plenty of people out their that are CONTENT with staying on the dole and can't be bothered looking for another job.I was at a house party last week and a guy their gets his dole and €90 rent allowance, he spends all day every day either on the net, reading books from the libruary or playing computer games and shops in Lidl all the time. Now most people out would be miserable with this but this guy is VERY HAPPY with been on the dole and has no intention of looking for a job and theirs loads of people like him out their.

    Their are two groups of people on the dole, theirs the majority which are decent, honest people who don't have a job because through no fault of their own their are no jobs out their and their fighing an uphill battle to get a job, I don't slate these people because I could be one of these people in 2 or 3 years time. But theirs a minority of people who are lazy wasters getting free money and benifits that aren't trying to get off the dole, some of the money wasted on these people could be used to help give all Irish people a future again.

    Sure lets change everything because of your one encounter with some random guy who's happy with what he has. Fcuking unbelieveable...


  • #85
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Antonio Warm Limousine wrote: »
    Sure lets change everything because of your one encounter with some random guy who's happy with what he has. Fcuking unbelieveable...

    So basically you support benefit fraud and think there is nothing wrong with it?


  • #86
    Greyfox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,280 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    There is something deeply & inheritantly flawed with our social welfare system. It breeds dependancy on handouts, promotes single motherhood and fails to support those who paid into the system, even in times when they need it the most.

    +100


  • #87
    furiousox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,336 ✭✭✭furiousox


    melekalikimaka wrote: »
    i find it bull that people can't find jobs... people just cant find jobs to suit themselves.

    Ya think??
    I've applied for jobs that offer NO salary and received no reply or acknowledgement of my application.
    Now tell me where do I go from there?

    You are a khaki coloured bombardier, it's Hiroshima that you're nearing.



  • #88
    omahaid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭omahaid


    Surely if you're on the dole with 30 years then you didn't try very hard to get a job? :confused:


  • #89
    Greyfox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,280 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    Fago! wrote: »
    Not a fucking chance. What if someone who genuinly can't get a job and has a family to support? So now because it's taking him a bit of time to find work, he has to suffer, and therefore, so do his family?

    Fuck right off!!!

    A bit of time?? 5 f**king years?? how the f**k is that a "bit of time"??? No wonder our country is gone to sh** when some people think this. OUR COUNTRY CANNOT AFFORD to pay someone to sit at home for 5 years scratching their ar**! It's simply not fair on all the poor sods with a morgage and kids that after spending at least 50 hours a week working and traveling to and from work they still cannot afford a decent social life, but sure nodody cares about hard working people earning well below the average wage.


  • #90
    ninebeanrows
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,780 ✭✭✭✭ninebeanrows


    Depends on the situation.

    Some people just can't get jobs.

    Problem with the dole is that it is just too high.

    It should just cover basic costs for fuel, eating, transport etc.

    Dole should be around 100/120 euro p/week

    Also increases incentives for people to get minimum paying jobs.

    What needs to clamped down is the young scummers sucking the country dry.

    Getting there 200 quid a week, living in there parents house heading to the pub, bookies most days spending 50euro a week on spliff and complaining about their lifes. Need to be given a kick up the arse.

    Also pains me to think that some good lad could struggle through a partly full-time job, get his 300 a week and see this lazy f'er doing nothing.


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  • #91
    doncarlos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,860 ✭✭✭doncarlos


    Darlughda wrote: »

    Go educate yourself. Better still apply for over 300 jobs over 5 years and not a chance of an interview, yet still keep going.

    If you've applied for 300 jobs and not got an interview there must be something seriously wrong with either your CV or the jobs that you are aiming for


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