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Should there be an end period for the Dole?

245

Comments

  • #32
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    bryaner wrote: »
    Do you read the paper or watch the news?
    You don't need to read the paper or the news, just do a simple Google search.. .

    Dell are paying Polish workers in Lotz less than half what the scratch is here and they are also in the EU,

    Do you honestly think these EU Parlament beaurocrats are going to give us any preferential treatment over them if it came down to the crunch.?


  • #33
    JimiTime
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    You think removing benefits is going to sort out the mess?? You think telling people, 'Tough sh!t if you can't pay your rent' is some kind of solution? Will these people simply curl up in a box with their families? I think not! You'll have an increase in crime such as muggings and burglaries. You'll have more people turning to drugs etc and create ghetto's and slums. People will then get trapped in poverty and society as a whole will suffer. There will be a class divide, and a bitterness that will fester. No good will come of it.

    You really haven't thought about this at all have you?


  • #34
    Fago!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,647 ✭✭✭✭Fago!


    mise_me_fein1 wrote: »
    Hey Darlughda.....there was plenty of work in the book years?

    AAHAHAHAHAHAHA


  • #35
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    mise_me_fein1 wrote: »
    ...woud you ever you and fcuk yourself Darlughda....you IGNORANT FCUK
    Not good. Exposes mentality. Bye.


  • #36
    bryaner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭bryaner


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    You don't need to read the paper or the news, just do a simple Google search.. .

    Dell are paying Polish workers in Lotz less than half what the scratch is here and they are also in the EU,

    Do you honestly think these EU Parlament beaurocrats are going to give us any preferential treatment over them if it came down to the crunch.?

    I'm talking about ECB 750 Billion package and also Irish bonds selling like hot cakes!


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  • #37
    eilo1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭eilo1


    When you wonder why you're getting a huge tax bill that nearly puts you out of business and think to yourself....hmm where does this money go...when you're suicidal....and you look across the street at the family that has brought up their kids only to exist and sponge and claim benefits....woud you ever you and fcuk yourself Darlughda....you IGNORANT FCUK

    shocking!


  • #38
    bryaner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭bryaner


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    You don't need to read the paper or the news, just do a simple Google search.. .

    Dell are paying Polish workers in Lotz less than half what the scratch is here and they are also in the EU,

    Do you honestly think these EU Parlament beaurocrats are going to give us any preferential treatment over them if it came down to the crunch.?

    No prob doing it here if a sliced pan costs the same as in Poland


  • #39
    Sharpshooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,859 ✭✭✭✭Sharpshooter


    mise_me_fein1 wrote: »
    woud you ever you and fcuk yourself Darlughda....you IGNORANT FCUK

    Banned for personal abuse.


  • #40
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    There's a friend of mine who got laid off 2 years ago - he's an engineer, so the likelyhood of him getting a job anytime soon in that sector in Ireland is slim to f*ck all.

    He no longer gets the dole as his stamps ran out. They means tested him & because his wife earns just over €35k, he now gets nothing. Appearantly they don't even take into account mortgage payments into their calculations. He decided to try & go back to college to do something completely different, but as he's already got a 3rd level education, he'll get no grants or state supports, so he can't afford to do that. Between the mortgage payments, food & house bills and a small loan, himself & the missus just about get by. I offered to help him out with the college fees & some petrol money each month, but he's a proud man & won't take it - he's already finding it very hard & demeaning to have to ask the missus for a few quid each week to do the shopping.

    This is a guy who is educated, wants to work, can't get a job, would love to re-educate himself, can't afford to & yet has paid over 10 years of PRSI into a system that gives nothing back.

    I have another mate who went straight onto the dole when he left school & has been getting welfare benefits for almost 15 years now. He knows every trick in the book - he works part time, but only on the days & up to the number of hours such that they won't reduce his dole payments. His girlfriend is the same. They've also got a kid & she gets single mothers benefit as they say they aren't living together. They've also got a rather nice house from the council, basically rent free.

    This is a guy who is not educated, wants to work as little as possible, couldn't be ars*d going to college & has paid feck all PRSI into a system that gives him a lot back (& keeps on giving).

    There is something deeply & inheritantly flawed with our social welfare system. It breeds dependancy on handouts, promotes single motherhood and fails to support those who paid into the system, even in times when they need it the most.


  • #41
    Bolag_the_2nd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Bolag_the_2nd


    I admit i didnt read all the posts, IMO, no, i worked all my life, part time job at the moment, all i can get. i am highly qualified, live in a remote part of Galway, no jobs in my area, its not my fault that i apply for the days im not working, bet there is a lot of folk out there like me :rolleyes:


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  • #42
    JimiTime
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    mise_me_fein1 wrote: »
    Hey Darlughda.....there was plenty of work in the book years?

    If you couldn't get a job in Ireland during the boom years....wtf??

    This is one of the most loved up countries on the planet.

    We give money, to loads of people for nothing.

    When you wonder why you're getting a huge tax bill that nearly puts you out of business and think to yourself....hmm where does this money go...when you're suicidal....and you look across the street at the family that has brought up their kids only to exist and sponge and claim benefits....woud you ever you and fcuk yourself Darlughda....you IGNORANT FCUK


    Sorry to hear about your own troubles, these are indeed stressful times for many people. Wanting others to be FUBARed is not then solution for you though is it? All that will achieve is making others miserable as well as yourself. I know what you mean about being honest and doing everything by the rules etc can sometimes feel like a punishable offence, as others not so honest are spoonfed while the honest man is up to his neck in stress. I'd more think of something to solve this apparent injustice, than to simply wish misery on those across the road from ye.

    Anyway, I hope things work out.


  • #43
    Darlughda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭Darlughda


    mise_me_fein1 wrote: »
    Hey Darlughda.....there was plenty of work in the book years?

    If you couldn't get a job in Ireland during the boom years....wtf??

    This is one of the most loved up countries on the planet.

    We give money, to loads of people for nothing.

    When you wonder why you're getting a huge tax bill that nearly puts you out of business and think to yourself....hmm where does this money go...when you're suicidal....and you look across the street at the family that has brought up their kids only to exist and sponge and claim benefits....woud you ever you and fcuk yourself Darlughda....you IGNORANT FCUK

    Yeah. I spent the 'boom' years working voluntarily with people who were suicidal. Many of whom were desperate and secretive about it, because everybody around them was telling them they were utter failures if they could not or did not work.

    Meanwhile, these people diligently applied for job after job, I helped them with forms and basic literacy skills.

    They suffered worrying about their children's future, and saved every penny they could so their kids could have a normal life and maybe some hope in the future, despite the fact that they were stuck in a poverty situation with drugs, crime etc at every corner beckoning with the lure of an easier life and a life without daily harrasment from the local gangs.

    Nobody would employ these decent people then and they won't now. Some of these people who were truly good people have now suicided. They believed there was no hope and there was nothing I could do.


  • #44
    anto86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭anto86


    there should be a cut of point yes i know a few people that have never worked a day in there life lazy gits and my tax credits had ran out & i had to be means tested and my money was dropped while these people got more then me and all they do all day is get drunk when iv been working paying tax from 16 years of age :mad:


  • #45
    JimiTime
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    He no longer gets the dole as his stamps ran out. They means tested him & because his wife earns just over €35k, he now gets nothing. Appearantly they don't even take into account mortgage payments into their calculations. He decided to try & go back to college to do something completely different, but as he's already got a 3rd level education, he'll get no grants or state supports, so he can't afford to do that. Between the mortgage payments, food & house bills and a small loan, himself & the missus just about get by. I offered to help him out with the college fees & some petrol money each month, but he's a proud man & won't take it - he's already finding it very hard & demeaning to have to ask the missus for a few quid each week to do the shopping.

    This is a guy who is educated, wants to work, can't get a job, would love to re-educate himself, can't afford to & yet has paid over 10 years of PRSI into a system that gives nothing back.

    I have another mate who went straight onto the dole when he left school & has been getting welfare benefits for almost 15 years now. He knows every trick in the book - he works part time, but only on the days & up to the number of hours such that they won't reduce his dole payments. His girlfriend is the same. They've also got a kid & she gets single mothers benefit as they say they aren't living together. They've also got a rather nice house from the council, basically rent free.

    This is a guy who is not educated, wants to work as little as possible, couldn't be ars*d going to college & has paid feck all PRSI into a system that gives him a lot back (& keeps on giving).

    There is something deeply & inheritantly flawed with our social welfare system. It breeds dependancy on handouts, promotes single motherhood and fails to support those who paid into the system, even in times when they need it the most.

    Sorry, I'm just curious. Will he be entitled to dole again after a certain amount of years unemployed? Or is that it? I'm not sure how the system works. I thought you got 'benefit' and then went to 'assistance' when the benefit ran out. Could you tell me how this 'actually' works, as it sounds worse than I first thought.


  • #46
    theboxer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 220 ✭✭theboxer


    We should scratch the one payment across the board system. Why should the worker get the same payment as the leeches?

    Ist Six Months - 75% of your previous salary.
    After Six Months - 50%
    After a Year - 25%
    Second Year - Congratulations, your food stamps are in the post.

    For those whom have paid less than 100 PRSI contributions, heres a nice and crisp fifty euro note. Dont spend it all at once. Gotta last you the week.:)


  • #47
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    JimiTime wrote: »
    Sorry, I'm just curious. Will he be entitled to dole again after a certain amount of years unemployed? Or is that it? I'm not sure how the system works. I thought you got 'benefit' and then went to 'assistance' when the benefit ran out. Could you tell me how this 'actually' works, as it sounds worse than I first thought.

    Nope - that's it for him unless he can find a job & pay more PRSI. Benefit is your entitlement if you've paid in enough PRSI. It lasts for up to a year & then you may or may not qualify for assistance, which is means tested.

    The means test criteria is quite bizarre though as it seems not to take reality into account - ie., the amount of PAYE you pay, health levies, mortgage payments etc.


  • #48
    theboxer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 220 ✭✭theboxer


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    There's a friend of mine who got laid off 2 years ago - he's an engineer.....

    The crazy thing is, if your pal "breaks up" with the missus and moves out, he would be able to claim rent allowance and receive 200 euro every week. It is a deeply, deeply flawed system.


  • #49
    Ostrom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭Ostrom


    mise_me_fein1 wrote: »
    A lot of people complain about this and that these days but you'll find some people complaining that actually never worked.

    I think now that we're having so many problems with finance in Ireland that we should have a cut off point for the dole. I mean if someone can't get a job after 5 years...why should they deserve anything. They're not contributing.

    People that stay on the dole for life generally tend to be given a free house, while also receiving other benefits. I think this has to change to benefit our country's mentality. The "fair play to them if they can get away with it" has to end.

    Compare pre- recession live register figures with the present and rethink. Did this current cohort decide to down tools in the hope of a free house?


  • #50
    baldbear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,665 ✭✭✭baldbear


    It's silly talking about cutting peoples dole off after a certain time. About 6 years ago there were about 100k people on the dole. This was a time when we had to get people from other countries to do come over do what those other lazy buggers wouldn't do. These are the people whose dole should be cut not the poor suckers who have been recently let go.


  • #51
    anto86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭anto86


    baldbear wrote: »
    It's silly talking about cutting peoples dole off after a certain time. About 6 years ago there were about 100k people on the dole. This was a time when we had to get people from other countries to do come over do what those other lazy buggers wouldn't do. These are the people whose dole should be cut not the poor suckers who have been recently let go.

    +1 from me


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  • #52
    rossie1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,541 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Is there a generous Dole in Greece or Iceland that would match ours? I doubt it.

    There are plenty of countries in the EU with duck egg offered for those out of work.

    ours is well below the eu average actually, these are 2006 figures http://www.irishleftreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/a1_1_aaa_b_unemploymentbenefitsingle.jpg

    €385 a week on umemployment benefit in luxembourg in 2006, not bad


  • #53
    stupidusername
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,762 ✭✭✭✭stupidusername


    The dole absolutely should be cut off for people that are long term unemployed i.e. definitely 5 years or more. Maybe even 3.

    I posted this somewhere else but I'll throw it in here too. The government could make a saving of an average of €245 million a year if they were to cut off those that are unemployed 3 years or more.

    Where's the argument in that? People unemployed that length of time have to be just takin the piss. And I'm unemployed myself, before anyone starts at me about that.


  • #54
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    theboxer wrote: »
    The crazy thing is, if your pal "breaks up" with the missus and moves out, he would be able to claim rent allowance and receive 200 euro every week. It is a deeply, deeply flawed system.

    That's not actually true. He looked into this - if he did move out & told the welfare that they'd seperated due to "marraige / money problems" due to his unemployment, the social welfare would pay him, but they would take his missus to court to reclaim any maintenance payments made to him.

    Basically, he is now her dependant in the eyes of the system. Not an easy thing to stomach for any man, especially one who is used to working hard & paying his way.


  • #55
    recylingbin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,001 ✭✭✭recylingbin


    I'm sure someone has already said this, but there already is an end period - when you get a job.


  • #56
    Darlughda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭Darlughda


    stupidusername wrote: »
    The dole absolutely should be cut off for people that are long term unemployed i.e. definitely 5 years or more. Maybe even 3.

    I posted this somewhere else but I'll throw it in here too. The government could make a saving of an average of €245 million a year if they were to cut off those that are unemployed 3 years or more.

    Where's the argument in that? People unemployed that length of time have to be just takin the piss. And I'm unemployed myself, before anyone starts at me about that.

    Sigh. Maybe just your dole should be cut off after 3 yrs.
    Good luck job hunting!


  • #57
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    ours is well below the eu average actually, these are 2006 figures http://www.irishleftreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/a1_1_aaa_b_unemploymentbenefitsingle.jpg

    €385 a week on umemployment benefit in luxembourg in 2006, not bad
    That is not including other benefits which could be added such as the micky money and rent allowance.


  • #58
    stupidusername
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,762 ✭✭✭✭stupidusername


    Darlughda wrote: »
    Sigh. Maybe just your dole should be cut off after 3 yrs.
    Good luck job hunting!

    I'd have absolutely no problem with that. I wouldn't want to be unemployed for three years in the first place. I'm desperate as it is. I don't really get the sarcasm though. Why is it acceptable to be unemployed since 2007??


  • #59
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    stupidusername wrote: »
    I posted this somewhere else but I'll throw it in here too. The government could make a saving of an average of €245 million a year if they were to cut off those that are unemployed 3 years or more.

    That's quite the modest proposal...

    It doesn't address how those people (and, in many cases, their dependants) would survive without any money. It goes without saying that simply "getting a job" isn't that straightforward right now. Furthermore, even if we didn't have a massive unemployment crisis, would you employ somebody who has been out of the workforce for over three years? That old saying, "It's easier to find a job when you already have one" isn't just some hollow, bullshit cliché.


  • #60
    Darlughda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭Darlughda


    stupidusername wrote: »
    I'd have absolutely no problem with that. I wouldn't want to be unemployed for three years in the first place. I'm desperate as it is. I don't really get the sarcasm though. Why is it acceptable to be unemployed since 2007??

    Acceptable?
    Do you have any comprehension of what it is like to be unemployed since 2007?


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  • #61
    DarkJager
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,960 ✭✭✭DarkJager


    stupidusername wrote: »
    I'd have absolutely no problem with that. I wouldn't want to be unemployed for three years in the first place. I'm desperate as it is. I don't really get the sarcasm though. Why is it acceptable to be unemployed since 2007??

    You are forgetting that a lot of people who are now unemployed are in the age of 50+. Ageism is still alive and well in most employers (I have seen proof of this myself), so the truth is many of these people may never work again. So lets say a person of 56~ loses his job and signs on the dole. He applies for numerous vacancies but just gets PFO letters back. In your theory, his dole is cut off after 3 years despite his lack of employment being caused by bad business ethics.This makes him 59 years old, 6 years away from his pension and without a single source of income. Do you see how flawed and badly thought out your idea is?


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