How compassionate are you?

starbelgrade · 16-05-2010 02:57AM

davyjose wrote: »

Of course he's dead. You hardly think he's staying alive just until this thread runs its course?

I doubt it - he was selfish enough to put other people's lives at risk by using his phone, so I don't think he'd wait it out just for us.

davyjose wrote: »

We know he's dead, so the question becomes hypothetical. You either feel compassion for the guy who's dying, or you don't!

I'll answer that with a non hypothetical answer. I saw a guy getting killed last year in a car accident. A motorist drove headfirst into an oncoming motorbiker & he was dead in minutes. Did I feel compassion for him? Yes. Much? Not really - I didn't know the guy. It wasn't a very nice thing to see, but how much can anyone really feel for the passing of someone they have no connection with?

ascanbe · 16-05-2010 03:07AM

davyjose wrote: »

It is a fair point, a very fair one. Fortunately for the human race (in most cases) compassion lies beyond the boundaries of "fault" or "blame".

Indeed it does; as he stated he didn't wish a painful death on this man, he just didn't see him as a posterboy for compassion.
Let's say this was a different story, as it easily could have been; let's say that a guy who chose to start texting on his phone while driving mowed down a kid.
Would anyone be talking about compassion for him then? No; i'd imagine not. The majority of the posters on this thread would probably be looking to string him up.
Same actions; different outcome.
The point is that he was the one in charge of that vehicle and had a responsibilty, not only to himself, but to anyone he could inflict harm on by being irresponsible.
If any of the people who read this thread drive, i hope the lesson they take from it is that you should give driving your utmost concentration instead of coming away thinking, 'oh, it's not my fault when i do something irresponsible and stupid and i hope someone would have compassion for me if i die acting irresponsibly, on the off chance my irresponsibility doesn't lead to me also taking some innocent bystander with me'.

the keen edge · 16-05-2010 09:00AM

Just to clarify my OP

the keen edge wrote: »

There's an email doing the rounds containing images of a car accident in north America. The fatally injured victim was purportedly texting on a mobile phone when he drifted into the path of a oncoming lorry.

The images show the initial crash scene of the entangled vehicles, and also the graphic images of the victim being removed from his car. These pictures are truly sickening and left me feeling hollow, partly due to the desperately graphic nature of these pictures, but more so that I had witnessed this poor man in such a helpless and terminal state after such a violet death.

I felt that by viewing these photographs, I had myself eroded some bit of the victims dignity. With this playing on my mind I decided to try and find out the name of this unfortunate soul, and at least acknowledge who he was.

The above matter was really meant only to serve as an introduction.
To me, compassion can only be shown to the living or dying, but not the already dead; what use have they for it, it wouldn't do them or us any good. Not to be confused with respect for the dead, a completely different subject.
Again I find it interesting how this part of the OP, and specifically the apportionment for blame is brought up so readily .

the keen edge wrote: »

search only led me to more 'blog's' detailing the deaths of people in violent accidents. One of these blog's contained a video of a man cut in two after an accident but remarkable still alive.

I didn't view the video but read the comments relating to it.
Seemingly the victim of this accident is seen talking away, calmly, whist lying dying in the middle of the road, however despite a crowd of people standing in the background not one person goes towards the poor man who is obliviously facing the end of his life.
I cant imagine a more lonesome place for someone.

I've been by the death bed of family members, but never near the death of someone due to a violent accident where I would have had the choice to walk away.

So here's my question, If you came on the scene of such an occurrence would you be able to 'man up' and show compassion to someone who was obliviously in the last moments of their life, or would you turn your head and coward in the background?. Or maybe you have found yourself in this position?

I dearly hope I would have the strength of character to help some on their way.

People have spoken of 'degrees of compassion'. With specific regard to those in their final minutes of life, how could you show a little compassion, as opposed to just compassion?
Compassion to my mind should be given wholly and without conditions, if given at all.
Compassion is a connection between two souls. If you attach conditions to it and bestow it in degrees how is it compassion.

16-05-2010 10:46AM

[quote=[Deleted User];65911141]It depends on the situation. I wasn't there. I couldn't say I wouldn't have walked past. I walk past someone collapsed on a Tube platform at least once a week here in London. I walked past the bloke who got stabbed outside my building a few months back. In all cases, trained professionals were already helping, why stand around getting in the way and rubbernecking? The nurses/paramedics always tell people to move on.
[/QUOTE]

Yeh you're right, it totally depends on the situation, I agree if professionals are taking care of it then there's not much you can add. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

I don't see the comparison between the incident described and your second paragraph. If someone can help, then yeah, they should help. Most people wouldn't have a bean what to do with someone who was having a fit on a bus other than the obvious protecting their head, and if that was being done, what more can people do? I've been witness to a few of these situations and people have always behaved appropriately. There is a fine line between helping and fussing. Nothing worse than people trying to get in on the action and rubberneck when they can't help.

The comparison was meant only to explain that the reason I wouldn't be able to simply walk away is because it has been drilled into me over the years, mostly by my dad, that I should help anyone who needs it. As I said, he is an EMT so I have a fair idea of what is helping and what is not. I also work in a hospital where I co-ordinate alot of the patient safety initiatives so it would be at the forefront of my head most of the time. What can I do to help, and to reduce the risk of harm.

16-05-2010 12:14PM

the keen edge wrote: »

People have spoken of 'degrees of compassion'. With specific regard to those in their final minutes of life, how could you show a little compassion, as opposed to just compassion?
Compassion to my mind should be given wholly and without conditions, if given at all.
Compassion is a connection between two souls. If you attach conditions to it and bestow it in degrees how is it compassion.

The same way you have degrees of ANY emotion - happiness, sadness, excitement. Who are you to say how other people should feel and how much? You seem to expect everyone else to share your religious or spiritual beliefs. It's perfectly possible to feel compassion for one person but not another, or more compassion for one person than another. Why do I feel like this thread is a holier-than-thou competition?

Deleted User wrote:

The comparison was meant only to explain that the reason I wouldn't be able to simply walk away is because it has been drilled into me over the years, mostly by my dad, that I should help anyone who needs it. As I said, he is an EMT so I have a fair idea of what is helping and what is not. I also work in a hospital where I co-ordinate alot of the patient safety initiatives so it would be at the forefront of my head most of the time. What can I do to help, and to reduce the risk of harm.

I didn't really appreciate the tone of 'well I see it differently.' We're all different. I have yet to see an accident or incident where people did not do their best to help. If someone collapsed in front of me, I'd stop and call 999, stay with them and ask passersby if they had the medical knowledge to help. If someone was already collapsed in front of me and was being helped, then yes, I probably would step over them if I had to (i.e. if I was on a train and had to get off). Where's the logic in waiting around? I'd feel sorry for the person but I have my life to get on with as well, I'm not going to ruin my day so I can feel like a good Samaritan despite not actually being able to help, and I wouldn't appreciate being judged for it. There are people who are actually helping and then there are do gooders/spectators who are just in the way.

the keen edge · 16-05-2010 03:29PM

[quote=[Deleted User];65913718]Who are you to say how other people should feel and how much?[/QUOTE]

Maybe I should of made my posts clearer, but I never meant to said how anyone should feel, only how I feel.

[quote=[Deleted User];65913718] You seem to expect everyone else to share your religious or spiritual beliefs.[/QUOTE]

Where did I mention religion?
In fact your post seems to be the first mention of religion throughout this thread,(open to correction)
And don't suggest there was an undertone of religious sentiment to my posts, because I have no religion.

And I don't expect anything from anyone.
I started this thread with the intention of starting a debate, or at least getting other peoples view's on the subject.
I'am certainly not recruiting for JC, Allah and the gang.

[quote=[Deleted User];65913718] It's perfectly possible to feel compassion for one person but not another, or more compassion for one person than another. [/QUOTE]

Certainly. I was trying to suggest maybe compassion, as opposed to other emotions, has a 'tipping point' and doesn't have the same range of degrees as other emotions.

16-05-2010 03:48PM

the keen edge wrote: »

Maybe I should of made my posts clearer, but I never meant to said how anyone should feel, only how I feel.

Really? "Compassion to my mind should be given wholly and without conditions, if given at all" certainly sounds to me like you expect others to act as you do and feel as you do.

Where did I mention religion?
In fact your post seems to be the first mention of religion throughout this thread,(open to correction)
And don't suggest there was an undertone of religious sentiment to my posts, because I have no religion.

Right here:
"Compassion is a connection between two souls." The fact you can't even see how that's a religious or spiritual reference is very telling.

And I don't expect anything from anyone.
I started this thread with the intention of starting a debate, or at least getting other peoples view's on the subject.
I'am certainly not recruiting for JC, Allah and the gang.

Certainly. I was trying to suggest maybe compassion, as opposed to other emotions, has a 'tipping point' and doesn't have the same range of degrees as other emotions.

Didn't say you were recruiting for anyone, I said you've taken a word which means 'co-suffering' or 'to feel great empathy for another human being' and attached religious/spiritual/moral values to it. You asked, " If you attach conditions to it and bestow it in degrees how is it compassion?", well how isn't it? The concept of an unconditional obligation to feel compassion for someone despite what they've done to themselves or others seems pretty rooted in religion or spirituality to me. I don't think I have to be compassionate towards everyone who suffers misfortune any more than I don't have to cry when I watch a romcom. It's my emotion and I feel it in certain situations. I don't see why it wouldn't have degrees.

karma_ · 16-05-2010 03:54PM

If the video of the man cut in 2 is of an Asian man in a military uniform, then it may hearten you to know that he actually survived that accident as crazy as that sounds. Theres footage of him online learning to walk with one of those aids.

ToniTuddle · 16-05-2010 04:02PM

My God that is gruesome video with the police officer cut in half... :eek:
I couldn't watch the full thing.

I've no idea how I would react in a situation like that with someone I didn't know.

If it was someone I did know then there is no doubt I would be right up beside them, know that sounds maybe bad but if it's someone you love or care for you are more likely to comfort them.

Totally understand why some people would walk away from a scene like that. You have to have a pretty strong stomach! :eek:

EDIT: I saw that image too Karma but are you sure it is the same dude??

16-05-2010 05:49PM

[quote=[Deleted User];65913718]I didn't really appreciate the tone of 'well I see it differently.' We're all different. .[/QUOTE]

There was no tone. If you read it with a tone that's not my fault.

I was explaining my reasons from not being able to walk away from things. Nothing more.

ruthies · 16-05-2010 06:08PM

I would go to help

The Big Red Button · 16-05-2010 07:27PM

A few years ago my friend and I were walking into town and came to the scene of an accident. It must have only happened a matter of minutes before we got there. A woman had been crossing the road with her little girl in a buggy and her eight year old son, and a car had hit the buggy and the little boy. One ambulance had arrived already, and they were dealing with the girl - the buggy had been thrown several metres, and she was in a bad way, and her mother and a couple of witnesses to the accident were crowding around her.

However, the little boy was left lying on the road where the accident had happened. It was pouring rain, really really heavy, and freezing cold, and there were several people sitting in their cars because of the road being blocked by the accident, and no one had come out to the boy. He was sitting there bawling crying on his own. It was heartbreaking, I seriously do not understand how anyone could sit in their nice warm cars and watch him there in the rain, injured and crying, and not get out to help him.

Anyways my friend and I sat with him and held an umbrella over him until another ambulance came ... we could see that his leg was broken, so we took off his shoe in case of swelling, and just kept him still. Poor little guy insisted that he wasn't in any pain, all he cared about was whether his little sister was OK.

I heard afterwards that she died in hospital a couple of weeks later.

But I really couldn't understand those people who stayed in their cars and did nothing to help. I don't know, maybe they were in shock themselves from witnessing the accident or whatever? If it were me, I would have been disgusted with myself afterwards.

Now I know that this wasn't like the cases in the OP, where the victims had horrific injuries. But I'd like to think that I would do whatever I could to help if I was at the scene of any accident.

By the way, how disgusting is it that witnesses would take photos and videos of accident victims and then put them on the internet? How messed up would you have to be for that to even occur to you at the scene of an accident? :mad: Weirdos.

16-05-2010 07:34PM

chatterpillar wrote: »

But I really couldn't understand those people who stayed in their cars and did nothing to help. I don't know, maybe they were in shock themselves from witnessing the accident or whatever? If it were me, I would have been disgusted with myself afterwards.

Now I know that this wasn't like the cases in the OP, where the victims had horrific injuries. But I'd like to think that I would do whatever I could to help if I was at the scene of any accident.

I know a lot of men who would be very wary of doing this in case they were accused of trying to take the kid or something.....crazy world.

By the way, how disgusting is it that witnesses would take photos and videos of accident victims and then put them on the internet? How messed up would you have to be for that to even occur to you at the scene of an accident? :mad: Weirdos.

There are always photos taken at accidents by the police. These are what usually end up on the Internet. Same with all the autopsy photos and things like that.

the keen edge · 16-05-2010 09:48PM

[quote=[Deleted User];65916242]Really? "Compassion to my mind should be given wholly and without conditions, if given at all" certainly sounds to me like you expect others to act as you do and feel as you do.

Right here:
"Compassion is a connection between two souls." The fact you can't even see how that's a religious or spiritual reference is very telling.

Didn't say you were recruiting for anyone, I said you've taken a word which means 'co-suffering' or 'to feel great empathy for another human being' and attached religious/spiritual/moral values to it. You asked, " If you attach conditions to it and bestow it in degrees how is it compassion?", well how isn't it? The concept of an unconditional obligation to feel compassion for someone despite what they've done to themselves or others seems pretty rooted in religion or spirituality to me. I don't think I have to be compassionate towards everyone who suffers misfortune any more than I don't have to cry when I watch a romcom. It's my emotion and I feel it in certain situations. I don't see why it wouldn't have degrees.[/QUOTE]

To be honest my typing skills are not at a level where I can give a in depth reply without spend an hour bang about on the keypad.

I'am at odds as to how you are taking supposed opinions, tone etc from my posts.

I have looked at my posts and I cant see where your taking the religious sentiment from, and in addition to this I've told you there is none. Maybe it is from the use of the word soul.
The same goes with your insistence that I expect others to feel as I do.

karma_ wrote: »

If the video of the man cut in 2 is of an Asian man in a military uniform, then it may hearten you to know that he actually survived that accident as crazy as that sounds. Theres footage of him online learning to walk with one of those aids.

No I'am afraid that man didn't survive. That accident happened in Thailand.
The online footage of the man learning to walk is of a man in China.

16-05-2010 10:44PM

the keen edge wrote: »

To be honest my typing skills are not at a level where I can give a in depth reply without spend an hour bang about on the keypad.

I'am at odds as to how you are taking supposed opinions, tone etc from my posts.

I have looked at my posts and I cant see where your taking the religious sentiment from, and in addition to this I've told you there is none. Maybe it is from the use of the word soul.
The same goes with your insistence that I expect others to feel as I do.

Yes, obviously it's from your use of the word 'soul'. Sure, I pointed it out already

Atheists don't speak about souls because they don't believe in it. If I asked my boyfriend what compassion was, he'd say feeling empathy for someone else, nothing to do with souls. You might say you have no religion, but that sentence most definitely isn't a dictionary definition. It wouldn't occur to me to speak of souls when talking about compassion either, and I'm not an atheist.

And as for expecting others to feel, I pointed out your use of the word 'should' as well. Doesn't that imply duty or necessity?

the keen edge · 17-05-2010 01:06PM

[quote=[Deleted User];65921866]Yes, obviously it's from your use of the word 'soul'. Sure, I pointed it out already

Atheists don't speak about souls because they don't believe in it. If I asked my boyfriend what compassion was, he'd say feeling empathy for someone else, nothing to do with souls. You might say you have no religion, but that sentence most definitely isn't a dictionary definition. It wouldn't occur to me to speak of souls when talking about compassion either, and I'm not an atheist.

And as for expecting others to feel, I pointed out your use of the word 'should' as well. Doesn't that imply duty or necessity?[/QUOTE]

As a newbie(ish), maybe I'am missing out on something here.

I've reread the entire thread, again, and I'am still unable to see where I have given you reason to take me up on my posts in the manner that you have.

All I can make out is that from post #67, well into the thread and your involvement in it, you seem to have rounded on me and my supposed religious/spiritual/holier than thou agenda, even though my posts have been uniform from the start, and throughout in their content. In addition to this I've tried to clarified myself twice.

Anyway best of luck to you.

17-05-2010 01:52PM

Not compassionate at all really. I'm very selfish =3

17-05-2010 04:16PM

the keen edge wrote: »

As a newbie(ish), maybe I'am missing out on something here.

I've reread the entire thread, again, and I'am still unable to see where I have given you reason to take me up on my posts in the manner that you have.

All I can make out is that from post #67, well into the thread and your involvement in it, you seem to have rounded on me and my supposed religious/spiritual/holier than thou agenda, even though my posts have been uniform from the start, and throughout in their content. In addition to this I've tried to clarified myself twice.

Anyway best of luck to you.

I'm not sure what's so confusing. You said you're not bringing religion into the issue, yet you understand compassion as a connection of souls. You said you're not forcing your views on others, but you said what compassion 'should' be. I made two simple points, I don't understand why you're acting like I asked to read the Qu'ran in Arabic while ice skating backwards

ToniTuddle · 19-05-2010 07:47PM

Maybe that is just the way he/she could explain it at that moment in time?

walshb · 19-05-2010 07:50PM

Would I be right in saying that there is a fine line with being compassionate and being gullible?

I am quite compassionate, but not gullible....

How compassionate are you?

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