How compassionate are you?

Abi · 16-05-2010 12:01AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Everyone on this planet is guilty of doing something stupid. Everyone.

Of course, to one extent or another.

Fortunately not all have such dire consequences. And maybe if the man had killed someone because of his stupidity I would feel differently but jesus, a man dies because he sends a text... surely there must be some compassion??

Whoops, I understand your angle completely. And I've had members of my own family in car accidents. But I don't expect the internet or the world genuinely care about it. I don't buy it.

If you died doing something that you probably shouldn't have been doing, I would hope that compassion was shown towards you, and not the attitude of "well tough, if she hadn't been doing that, she'd still be alive" and I know your response will be "yeh they'll be right too, if I am the stupid cause of my own death then so be it" but life isn't, and shouldn't be, like that.

Thats a bit too loose of a description tbh, and I can't be judged by it. Unless you put another 'something' into the bracket, I have no defense here. All I do know is, I haven't, nor ever will text or call while driving.

16-05-2010 12:07AM

[quote=[Deleted User];65910329]There are many different degrees of 'doing something stupid'. If someone takes a drug overdose at home and collapses and dies, they haven't put anyone else in danger. If a pilot has a few drinks in the airport bar before getting into the cockpit of a 747, that's far more serious because he's endangered other peoples' lives.

It's not like there are conditions for compassion, but there are degrees of compassion just like there are degrees of carelessness. Why shouldn't they correlate?[/QUOTE]

Yeh, fair enough, I take your point, there are some things where my sympathy would be lacking, but sending a text, in my opinion, doesn't come close to drink driving. I guess that's my opinion though.

I haven't been in the position where I need to give compassion to someone who has caused their own death, but I have been in the position where my two children died because of someone else's mistake and bad driving, and not once did I ever think badly of the guy who made that mistake, I just felt sorry for him, that he had to live the rest of his life with that mistake. I sent him a card, I wrote a prayer of the faithful for him, I prayed for him. I never got angry - what good would it do - alot of the time the consequences are punishment enough without being judged by people on top of it.

16-05-2010 12:12AM

Abigayle wrote: »

Whoops, I understand your angle completely. And I've had members of my own family in car accidents. But I don't expect the internet or the world genuinely care about it. I don't buy it.

I disagree, mostly because I've been there, and I've gotten many many written letters from complete strangers - so I know that actually - people do care

Thats a bit too loose of a description tbh, and I can't be judged by it. Unless you put another 'something' into the bracket, I have no defense here. All I do know is, I haven't, nor ever will text or call while driving.

Sorry, not sure what you mean by too loose a reference, I was only loosely referring to a hypothetical situation. And yeh, I believe that you would never text/call etc, me neither, and I give out shít about people who do, and if someone killed a family member because of it, I guess I would be angrier, but I just feel sorry for anyone who is stupid enough to think they're invincible - and then - aren't

Thomas828 · 16-05-2010 12:15AM

No, I wouldn't want to be part of the crowd in a scenario like that. I would take one look and move on. Maybe I'm just totally misanthropic, but I've no time for other people's problems (which might explain why I've no interest in soap operas). So it follows that I won't be a rubberneck or a voyeur.

Giselle · 16-05-2010 12:17AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I haven't been in the position where I need to give compassion to someone who has caused their own death, but I have been in the position where my two children died because of someone else's mistake and bad driving, and not once did I ever think badly of the guy who made that mistake, I just felt sorry for him, that he had to live the rest of his life with that mistake. I sent him a card, I wrote a prayer of the faithful for him, I prayed for him. I never got angry - what good would it do - alot of the time the consequences are punishment enough without being judged by people on top of it.

I'm so sorry this has happened to you. Your capacity for understanding is incredible, and humbling.

You are a far, far bigger person than I could ever hope to be.

16-05-2010 12:28AM

Giselle wrote: »

You are a far, far bigger person than I could ever hope to be.

I know but...... snickers > celery

Jigga · 16-05-2010 12:42AM

I can see the merits for the death penalty in some extreme cases, not sure if its a suitable punishment for texting when driving unlike some posters here....

xoixo · 16-05-2010 12:47AM

A friend of mine was on a bus heading into college a few months back, she was sitting on the top deck. A man who was sitting also on the top deck by the stairs started to have a fit of some kind, was foaming at the mouth and his body was jerking really violently. There was a nurse on the bus who went over to help him and she laid him out on the ground, which you know how narrow dublin bus aisles are so he kinda blocked it.
Anyways, the bus driver pulled in at the next stop and stayed there until the ambulance came, and this stop happened to be the UCD one where a lot of people at that time in the morning where getting off.
And I don't know if its just me, but I couldn't believe it when my friend said that people on the top deck just started to step over the man on the ground to get down the stairs! They wouldn't wait for the ambulance to come, so the literally stood right over his head and carried on with their day?

Unbelievable, me and my friend thought.

starbelgrade · 16-05-2010 12:52AM

Jigga wrote: »

I can see the merits for the death penalty in some extreme cases, not sure if its a suitable punishment for texting when driving unlike some posters here....

I don't see any merit in the death penalty & I also don't see anywhere in this thread where anyone suggested that it would be a suitable punishment for texting whilst driving.

You should read posts that other people have made properly before making daft assumptions based on skimming.

16-05-2010 12:57AM

xoixo wrote: »

A friend of mine was on a bus heading into college a few months back, she was sitting on the top deck. A man who was sitting also on the top deck by the stairs started to have a fit of some kind, was foaming at the mouth and his body was jerking really violently. There was a nurse on the bus who went over to help him and she laid him out on the ground, which you know how narrow dublin bus aisles are so he kinda blocked it.
Anyways, the bus driver pulled in at the next stop and stayed there until the ambulance came, and this stop happened to be the UCD one where a lot of people at that time in the morning where getting off.
And I don't know if its just me, but I couldn't believe it when my friend said that people on the top deck just started to step over the man on the ground to get down the stairs! They wouldn't wait for the ambulance to come, so the literally stood right over his head and carried on with their day?

Unbelievable, me and my friend thought.

Yeah, it seems a bit insensitive but it's not like they stepped on his head, or stepped over a dead body. If I was having a fit or had fainted, I'd hate for a whole bus full of people to be gawking at me. I'd prefer them to just get on with their day. What would be the point in them sitting there and ruining their own days (perhaps they had exams?) when they couldn't do anything to help?

16-05-2010 01:06AM

[quote=[Deleted User];65910934]Yeah, it seems a bit insensitive but it's not like they stepped on his head, or stepped over a dead body. If I was having a fit or had fainted, I'd hate for a whole bus full of people to be gawking at me. I'd prefer them to just get on with their day. What would be the point in them sitting there and ruining their own days (perhaps they had exams?) when they couldn't do anything to help?[/QUOTE]

I dunno, I just couldn't walk away from a situation like that without helping. There are so many things that could be done in that situation. Like seeing as it's upstairs on a bus, if two ambulance men arrive, they may need assistance in helping the patient down the stairs. They may need info on the exact circumstances of his fit, or the ambulance may get stuck somewhere, broken down or what have you, and leaving one nurse to look after him in the mean time, doesn't seem like the appropriate thing to do.

I'm a bit stupid when it comes to stuff like this mind you, with a dad who volunteers for Simon, civil defence, is an EMT, and a mam who is a diabetic and could be the one having the fit, and the fact that when I had my car crash so many nice people helped, I probably just see things differently to most, which is fair enough.

the keen edge · 16-05-2010 01:07AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeh, fair enough, I take your point, there are some things where my sympathy would be lacking, but sending a text, in my opinion, doesn't come close to drink driving. I guess that's my opinion though.

I haven't been in the position where I need to give compassion to someone who has caused their own death, but I have been in the position where my two children died because of someone else's mistake and bad driving, and not once did I ever think badly of the guy who made that mistake, I just felt sorry for him, that he had to live the rest of his life with that mistake. I sent him a card, I wrote a prayer of the faithful for him, I prayed for him. I never got angry - what good would it do - alot of the time the consequences are punishment enough without being judged by people on top of it.

My God whoops, my heart goes out to you.
I've known lost myself, but not the lost of a young person, and then in your case two children, heartbreaking.
I hope you find peace.

MagicMarker · 16-05-2010 01:12AM

I don't think it's a lack of compassion that prevents a few people from approaching a guy who's just be cut in half tbh.

Larianne · 16-05-2010 01:14AM

But is it not more a case of people being scared and not knowing what to do?

I helped a girl on the bus a few weeks back who had fainted. I'm trained in First Aid so I knew what to do. But if it had happened a few years beforehand, I don't think I'd be as quick to help, not because I didn't want to but because I would have been afraid I would make things worse and not knowing what to do.

I think that's how a lot of people might feel.

davyjose · 16-05-2010 01:16AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

Look, I'm not completely heartless, so yes, of course I would feel some amount of empathy for the guy.

However, my point still stands - if you get into a car & don't give it your full attention, you are asking for trouble. Whether you are texting, or have been using drink or drugs, the result can be the same & if you end up in an accident, you really have no-one else to blame but yourself.

Your point doesn't still stand. Nobody was questioning whether or not the guy was wrong. He clearly was. What raised heckles was the glib way you dismissed his death with a "he deserved it" attitude. I personally found that shocking.

MagicMarker · 16-05-2010 01:17AM

Come to think of it, I was in Manchester on the tram to Old Trafford, it was pretty packed and some guy got on and was talking to people about how he'd been feeling really ill and just almost fainted. Well of course at that moment all I wanted was to get away from him for fear of him fainting again, low and behold he did, but thankfully there was people around him to help. I kind of just ignored it and went on my merry way.

16-05-2010 01:19AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I dunno, I just couldn't walk away from a situation like that without helping. There are so many things that could be done in that situation. Like seeing as it's upstairs on a bus, if two ambulance men arrive, they may need assistance in helping the patient down the stairs. They may need info on the exact circumstances of his fit, or the ambulance may get stuck somewhere, broken down or what have you, and leaving one nurse to look after him in the mean time, doesn't seem like the appropriate thing to do.

I'm a bit stupid when it comes to stuff like this mind you, with a dad who volunteers for Simon, civil defence, is an EMT, and a mam who is a diabetic and could be the one having the fit, and the fact that when I had my car crash so many nice people helped, I probably just see things differently to most, which is fair enough.

It depends on the situation. I wasn't there. I couldn't say I wouldn't have walked past. I walk past someone collapsed on a Tube platform at least once a week here in London. I walked past the bloke who got stabbed outside my building a few months back. In all cases, trained professionals were already helping, why stand around getting in the way and rubbernecking? The nurses/paramedics always tell people to move on.

I don't see the comparison between the incident described and your second paragraph. If someone can help, then yeah, they should help. Most people wouldn't have a bean what to do with someone who was having a fit on a bus other than the obvious protecting their head, and if that was being done, what more can people do? I've been witness to a few of these situations and people have always behaved appropriately. There is a fine line between helping and fussing. Nothing worse than people trying to get in on the action and rubberneck when they can't help.

the keen edge · 16-05-2010 01:19AM

MagicMarker wrote: »

I don't think it's a lack of compassion that prevents a few people from approaching a guy who's just be cut in half tbh.

True, but a sense of compassion is also probably the only thing that would make you approach him.

starbelgrade · 16-05-2010 01:28AM

davyjose wrote: »

Your point doesn't still stand. Nobody was questioning whether or not the guy was wrong. He clearly was. What raised heckles was the glib way you dismissed his death with a "he deserved it" attitude. I personally found that shocking.

Where did I say that he deserved to die? Where? No-where, that's where. I said that it was his own fault. There is a world of a difference there.

Kasabian · 16-05-2010 01:33AM

I did a first aid class a few years back and the last point the instructor gave was that if you were in a situation to help someone think carefully before you go to assist as you may end up getting sued.

davyjose · 16-05-2010 01:38AM

[quote=[Deleted User];65911141]It depends on the situation. I wasn't there. I couldn't say I wouldn't have walked past. I walk past someone collapsed on a Tube platform at least once a week here in London. I walked past the bloke who got stabbed outside my building a few months back. In all cases, trained professionals were already helping, why stand around getting in the way and rubbernecking? The nurses/paramedics always tell people to move on.

[/QUOTE]
Nevertheless, you can walk past and feel compassion, or you can walk past and feel indifference. that's what's at the very heart of the OP (I believe).

Only you can know what you felt; justification for walking past is otherwise moot.

--LOS-- · 16-05-2010 01:44AM

xoixo wrote: »

A friend of mine was on a bus heading into college a few months back, she was sitting on the top deck. A man who was sitting also on the top deck by the stairs started to have a fit of some kind, was foaming at the mouth and his body was jerking really violently. There was a nurse on the bus who went over to help him and she laid him out on the ground, which you know how narrow dublin bus aisles are so he kinda blocked it.
Anyways, the bus driver pulled in at the next stop and stayed there until the ambulance came, and this stop happened to be the UCD one where a lot of people at that time in the morning where getting off.
And I don't know if its just me, but I couldn't believe it when my friend said that people on the top deck just started to step over the man on the ground to get down the stairs! They wouldn't wait for the ambulance to come, so the literally stood right over his head and carried on with their day?

Unbelievable, me and my friend thought.

Oh come on, you cannot feel compassion for everything that happens to people you don't even know, I'd get hard to make it from one place to the next if that was the case. It's not like this person was being left on their own without help.

davyjose · 16-05-2010 01:45AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

F*ck that sh*t. It was his own f*cking fault.

I never said you said he deserved to die. I labelled your attitude as such.

You seem to have softened a little since your initial post, but the fact of the matter is, it was bilious, and cruel-hearted. If you no longer feel that way just say so, but don't try to justify the above rant by saying I misquoted you.

starbelgrade · 16-05-2010 01:53AM

davyjose wrote: »

I never said you said he deserved to die. I labelled your attitude as such.

You seem to have softened a little since your initial post, but the fact of the matter is, it was bilious, and cruel-hearted. If you no longer feel that way just say so, but don't try to justify the above rant by saying I misquoted you.

If someone crashes their car & dies because they were using their phone, it is their own fault. That is all I said & I stand by that.

You can label my attitude whatever way you choose, but that doesn't mean that you are right.

ascanbe · 16-05-2010 02:06AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

The victim was texting someone & then hit an oncoming lorry?

And you ask if I have compassion for him? F*ck that sh*t. It was his own f*cking fault. Driving a car is not something you do while you do something else, like reading a newspaper or fixing your hair. You need to give it your full concentration or you could end up dead. And he did. A lesson learned the hard way.

He was a tit. The person I would feel real compassion for is the unfortunate lorry driver whose car he hit & who has to bear the life long burden of having inadvertantly caused the end of someone else's life.

This is a very fair point; if you're in charge of a vehicle you are also responsible for the harm you can inflict if not giving that endeavour your utmost attention.
You owe it to others, not only yourself, to ensure you are fully concentrating on the task at hand.

davyjose · 16-05-2010 02:06AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

If someone crashes their car & dies because they were using their phone, it is their own fault. That is all I said & I stand by that.

You can label my attitude whatever way you choose, but that doesn't mean that you are right.

So going back to the OP, you do or you don't feel compassion for a guy who dies for something as tragically simple as checking his phone?

Remnding you that you called him a tit.

starbelgrade · 16-05-2010 02:24AM

davyjose wrote: »

So going back to the OP, you do or you don't feel compassion for a guy who dies for something as tragically simple as checking his phone?

Remnding you that you called him a tit.

In regard to the person who died whilst texting, compassion doesn't comes into it really - to feel compassion, one must feel a certain empathy or sympathy for the person, which is not possible when the person is dead.

Compassion is something reserved for the living. If I were to see someone in their last throes of life, I would feel some compassion, yes. To what degree, I don't know - it would depend entirely on the situation.

My comment about the texter being a tit & it being his own fault were made in the knowledge that he caused his own demise. Anyone who uses a car whilst drunk, stoned or using a phone, is asking for trouble.

davyjose · 16-05-2010 02:25AM

ascanbe wrote: »

This is a very fair point; if you're in charge of a vehicle you are also responsible for the harm you can inflict if not giving that endeavour your utmost attention.
You owe it to others, not only yourself, to ensure you are fully concentrating on the task at hand.

It is a fair point, a very fair one. Fortunately for the human race (in most cases) compassion lies beyond the boundaries of "fault" or "blame".

lifeinireland · 16-05-2010 02:36AM

the keen edge wrote: »

There's an email doing the rounds containing images of a car accident in north America. The fatally injured victim was purportedly texting on a mobile phone when he drifted into the path of a oncoming lorry.

The images show the initial crash scene of the entangled vehicles, and also the graphic images of the victim being removed from his car. These pictures are truly sickening and left me feeling hollow, partly due to the desperately graphic nature of these pictures, but more so that I had witnessed this poor man in such a helpless and terminal state after such a violet death.

I felt that by viewing these photographs, I had myself eroded some bit of the victims dignity. With this playing on my mind I decided to try and find out the name of this unfortunate soul, and at least acknowledge who he was.

This search only led me to more 'blog's' detailing the deaths of people in violent accidents. One of these blog's contained a video of a man cut in two after an accident but remarkable still alive.

I didn't view the video but read the comments relating to it.
Seemingly the victim of this accident is seen talking away, calmly, whist lying dying in the middle of the road, however despite a crowd of people standing in the background not one person goes towards the poor man who is obliviously facing the end of his life.
I cant imagine a more lonesome place for someone.

I've been by the death bed of family members, but never near the death of someone due to a violent accident where I would have had the choice to walk away.

So here's my question, If you came on the scene of such an occurrence would you be able to 'man up' and show compassion to someone who was obliviously in the last moments of their life, or would you turn your head and coward in the background?. Or maybe you have found yourself in this position?

I dearly hope I would have the strength of character to help some on their way.

i remember one night along time ago hearing a bang so i looked out of my window and saw a car hadhit a pole and turned over,me and my dad were first on the scene thankfully the people in the car were ok,but its the thought of what youre facing thats frightening,i personally believe its your duty to stop and help any one in trouble,and if they are dying try to console them some way.

davyjose · 16-05-2010 02:37AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

to feel compassion, one must feel a certain empathy or sympathy for the person, which is not possible when the person is dead.

Of course he's dead. You hardly think he's staying alive just until this thread runs its course?

We know he's dead, so the question becomes hypothetical. You either feel compassion for the guy who's dying, or you don't!

How compassionate are you?

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