Draw Mohammed Day, May 20th

fufureida · 14-05-2010 02:46PM

Flamed Diving wrote: »

I doubt you realise it, but that statement is a threat.

Islam, from my perspective, is a personal belief. An opinion. Nothing more. You have no right to stop me from drawing images of him no more than I have the right to stop you all from wearing hats because that offends my non-hat god.

You know this is a problem with me, so why provoke it?

Ridiculous.

Someone needs to take a chill pill... I allready said I don't care.

ANYWAY tbh I have met nicer atheists in my life time than I have ppl of any faith.
Now if you excuse me IM GONNA GO DRAW A PICTURE OF A PRIEST MOlESTING A LITTLE BOY AND PUBLISH IT IN A NEWS PAPER WITH PLENTY OF HARD LINE CATHOLIC READERS AND HOPE NOONE HATES ME FOR IT.

Lol XD you logic is put a bull in a red room it's not my fault if it goes crazy...

storm2811 · 14-05-2010 02:50PM

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Storm, that is their problem. They choose to not depict Mo, so that means we must fall into line?

No,I don't agree with the way some muslims react to people drawing pictures of mohammed but i still think that this idea is not respecting their beliefs and that whoever made it up is just doing it to cause hassle and controversy..

fufureida · 14-05-2010 02:54PM

storm2811 wrote: »

No,I don't agree with the way some muslims react to people drawing pictures of mohammed but i still think that this idea is not respecting their beliefs and that whoever made it up is just doing it to cause hassle and controversy..

That's my point exactly. Sure disagree with the Quran that's your choice, don't agree with the Hijab, but purposely adding fuel to the flame? That I don't get.

And yes I'm a girl if anyone had doubts!

Mark Hamill · 14-05-2010 03:00PM

storm2811 wrote: »

No,I don't agree with the way some muslims react to people drawing pictures of mohammed but i still think that this idea is not respecting their beliefs and that whoever made it up is just doing it to cause hassle and controversy..

Who says you have to respect someones beliefs though?
Oh, you should respect someones right to have a belief, and their right to enact on that belief (as long as it doesn't effect anyone else), but why should I respect the muslim belief that mohammed shouldn't be illustrated when they dont respect my believe that no-one is above being made fun of?

smokingman · 14-05-2010 03:04PM

fufureida wrote: »

IM GONNA GO DRAW A PICTURE OF A PRIEST MOlESTING A LITTLE BOY AND PUBLISH IT IN A NEWS PAPER WITH PLENTY OF HARD LINE CATHOLIC READERS AND HOPE NOONE HATES ME FOR IT.

There's the difference though - you wouldn't get death threats from anyone, maybe the fundamentalists in the states, for doing that.

It does annoy me that it has come to this as I think Islam is a nice religion, just like christianity, if the core concepts are looked at - i.e. be nice to peeps.
Just a pity some loons think they can force their beliefs on others tho, no matter what the view.

fufureida · 14-05-2010 03:04PM

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Who says you have to respect someones beliefs though?
Oh, you should respect someones right to have a belief, and their right to enact on that belief (as long as it doesn't effect anyone else), but why should I respect the muslim belief that mohammed shouldn't be illustrated when they dont respect my believe that no-one is above being made fun of?

Your post makes no sense.
Basically you think it's ok to make fun of anyone?

I don't get it...

Whatever I'm back to the leaving cert forum lol BON COURAGE!

Mark Hamill · 14-05-2010 03:07PM

fufureida wrote: »

That's my point exactly. Sure disagree with the Quran that's your choice, don't agree with the Hijab, but purposely adding fuel to the flame? That I don't get.

Its very simple. We dont agree with the quran, therefore we draw pictures of mohammed. The fact that it bothers muslims is irrelevent, they choose to be bothered by it, you can ignore it, you can sit smug in the knowledge that we non-believers will be judged for it after we die, you can draw your own pictures of non muslim figure heads.
Instead you choose to get to offended because you expect that non muslim should give more of a crap about your beliefs than you give about our beliefs. Thats the disrespect that we are trying to demonstrate, the insecurity you have for your own beliefs and each and every threat merely strengthens our position.

fufureida · 14-05-2010 03:07PM

smokingman wrote: »

There's the difference though - you wouldn't get death threats from anyone, maybe the fundamentalists in the states, for doing that.

It does annoy me that it has come to this as I think Islam is a nice religion, just like christianity, if the core concepts are looked at - i.e. be nice to peeps.
Just a pity some loons think they can force their beliefs on others tho, no matter what the view.

I understand what u mean completely... I just don't get why someone would like I said earlier, add fuel to the fire? it's pathetic that's Muslims behaved this way and it's pathetic how ppl think they r making some sort of valid political/ personal point by drawing pics of tge Peophet? Both sides are really pathetic and childish...

And I'm saying all this as a Muslim.

sonicthebadger* · 14-05-2010 03:08PM

storm2811 wrote: »

Does anyone else think this is just taking the piss out of their religion?
Not all muslims get so offended by this and all but surely they have the right to believe what they want and yes,we have the right to draw pictures of Mohammed aswell,but this is just making fun of someone's beliefs is it not?

I also had the same concern but when I thought about it I felt that if Muslims were to say, "Hey guys, don't do that please, it upsets us when Mo is depicted graphically." I would say, no worries I'll draw sunflowers or something instead. But when someone says "Die with your throat cut you fupping Infidel scum!" I'm inclined to say... blow me ya jerk.

Now I do understand that a large number of Muslims are not the throat cutters and sorry about that, but hey, maybe everyone should lighten up and stop getting offended over silly things that are going to happen somewhere sometime anyway.

strobe · 14-05-2010 03:08PM

fufureida wrote: »

Do they ever get bored of trying to make fun of our faith at any given opportunity? Do they ever get bored of discriminating against us?'

Hmmmm, the thing is there was no discrimination involved whatsoever. Islam isn't being singled out. People draw satirical cartoons of all the other religions aswell (google "jesus lol" for example). It's equality rather than discrimination, if it is anything.

fufureida · 14-05-2010 03:08PM

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Its very simple. We dont agree with the quran, therefore we draw pictures of mohammed. The fact that it bothers muslims is irrelevent, they choose to be bothered by it, you can ignore it, you can sit smug in the knowledge that we non-believers will be judged for it after we die, you can draw your own pictures of non muslim figure heads.
Instead you choose to get to offended because you expect that non muslim should give more of a crap about your beliefs than you give about our beliefs. Thats the disrespect that we are trying to demonstrate, the insecurity you have for your own beliefs and each and every threat merely strengthens our position.

Your post made me haw haw.

I repeat, I don't give a ****! Lol it doesn't bother me. I just have an opinion on it. I'm off * flies away to leavibg cert forum *

storm2811 · 14-05-2010 03:09PM

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Who says you have to respect someones beliefs though?
Oh, you should respect someones right to have a belief, and their right to enact on that belief (as long as it doesn't effect anyone else), but why should I respect the muslim belief that mohammed shouldn't be illustrated when they dont respect my believe that no-one is above being made fun of?

But you'd like people to respect your belief "that no-one is above being made fun of?",the same way they'd like us to respect their beliefs?;)
All i was saying is that,although this thing is about expressing freedom of speech,they could have done something else to show this.
I'm not a muslim (atheist) but I do think this Mohammed thing is being treated like a joke.

Mark Hamill · 14-05-2010 03:11PM

fufureida wrote: »

Your post makes no sense.
Basically you think it's ok to make fun of anyone?

I don't get it...

Of course its ok to make fun of anyone, especially from a religious view. We are all equal in the eyes of a god, all humour is based on poking fun at someone, so if its ok to make fun of anyone, it has to be ok to make fun of anyone.
Do you think there are some people who should not be made fun of? Why should anyone be above being made fun of?

sonicthebadger* · 14-05-2010 03:16PM

fufureida wrote: »

Lol XD you logic is put a bull in a red room it's not my fault if it goes crazy...

Your logic suggests that Muslims should be treated like bulls? Muslims should be treated like animals? I can't say I agree with that point of view.

storm2811 wrote: »

But you'd like people to respect your belief "that no-one is above being made fun of?",the same way they'd like us to respect their beliefs?;)

Not at all, you can make fun of that belief all you like. :pac:

strobe · 14-05-2010 03:22PM

fufureida wrote: »

I understand what u mean completely... I just don't get why someone would like I said earlier, add fuel to the fire? it's pathetic that's Muslims behaved this way and it's pathetic how ppl think they r making some sort of valid political/ personal point by drawing pics of tge Peophet? Both sides are really pathetic and childish...

And I'm saying all this as a Muslim.

Why add fuel to the fire? Because the only other option is "appeasment". As we have seen from history appeasing violent thugs just makes the situation worse and spurs them on. I always see this from muslims "why do it, what good will come from it?". It is more about what bad will come from it if people don't do it.

Mark Hamill · 14-05-2010 03:23PM

storm2811 wrote: »

But you'd like people to respect your belief "that no-one is above being made fun of?",the same way they'd like us to respect their beliefs?;)

No, I would like people to respect me enough to allow me that belief, and to challenge in a civil and logically way it if they disagree with it.

storm2811 wrote: »

All i was saying is that,although this thing is about expressing freedom of speech,they could have done something else to show this.

Given the reaction to south park having mohammed in an episode recently I think it is apt.

storm2811 wrote: »

I'm not a muslim (atheist) but I do think this Mohammed thing is being treated like a joke.

I'm sure there are some people treating it purely like a joke, but so what? We treat Jesus like a joke (google "Jesus lol") and in that south park episode buddha was depicted as having a cocain addiction and no-one batted an eyelid. People need to learn their beliefs are not above ridicule. People need to lose the insecurity that causes them to react aggressively when people question or insult their beliefs.

Violent reactions to this sort of thing completely baffle me. If someone truely believes mohammed shouldn't be drawn then they must also believe in god and heaven and hell and people being judged after they die for what they do. If they truely believe this, then they must believe that we will be judged for what they do by god, and nothing they can do will be even remotely as just or powerful as what he will do, so their actions are entirely moot. The only conclusions are that these people either do not really believe, and the reaction is to back up the facade which they need to keep the power they have from appearing to believe, or these people just do not think about their religion at all. Its madness.

storm2811 · 14-05-2010 03:25PM

sonicthebadger* wrote: »

Not at all, you can make fun of that belief all you like. :pac:

Damn,there's my point gone out the window:pac:

sensibleken · 14-05-2010 03:30PM

theres a difference between freedom of speech and just plain being a dick.

im all up for free speech but all rights come with responsibilities.

doing stuff just to offend people is being a dick.

dick

Zombrex · 14-05-2010 03:32PM

fufureida wrote: »

but what I dont understand it why do somethig when you know it may provoke violence?

To demonstrate that we do not have to surrender our values and freedoms under threat of violence and intimidation.

There is no difference between having freedoms you do not exercise because of fear of violence and having no freedoms at all.

The Muslims who threaten us all want us to lose our freedoms. They won't win.

sonicthebadger* · 14-05-2010 03:34PM

sensibleken wrote: »

theres a difference between freedom of speech and just plain being a dick.

im all up for free speech but all rights come with responsibilities.

doing stuff just to offend people is being a dick.

dick

In this wonderful world we all share it is possible to switch off; switch over; or just avert your eyes. If someone is trying to offend you they probably are being a dick, you can't kill them for it, if you could we'd just be having a competition over who's the biggest dick all the time and the winner would have the most kills.

Kinda puts me in mind of that dicks fcuk assholes speech from Team America.

storm2811 · 14-05-2010 03:36PM

Mark Hamill wrote: »

No, I would like people to respect me enough to allow me that belief, and to challenge in a civil and logically way it if they disagree with it.

Given the reaction to south park having mohammed in an episode recently I think it is apt.

I'm sure there are some people treating it purely like a joke, but so what? We treat Jesus like a joke (google "Jesus lol") and in that south park episode buddha was depicted as having a cocain addiction and no-one batted an eyelid. People need to learn their beliefs are not above ridicule. People need to lose the insecurity that causes them to react aggressively when people question or insult their beliefs.

Violent reactions to this sort of thing completely baffle me. If someone truely believes mohammed shouldn't be drawn then they must also believe in god and heaven and hell and people being judged after they die for what they do. If they truely believe this, then they must believe that we will be judged for what they do by god, and nothing they can do will be even remotely as just or powerful as what he will do, so their actions are entirely moot. The only conclusions are that these people either do not really believe, and the reaction is to back up the facade which they need to keep the power they have from appearing to believe, or these people just do not think about their religion at all. Its madness.

But in christanity,it doesn't say that we can't show images of jesus,same goes for buddhism,hinduism,judaism etc.
But for muslims,it is something that offends them and is a strong belief of theirs,and we just do it anyway.

"If someone truely believes mohammed shouldn't be drawn then they must also believe in god and heaven and hell and people being judged after they die for what they do."
Well yes,most muslims(and people who are members of other religions)do believe in a god and afterlife etc.?
I don't believe it should be drawn because it is offensive and is just pointless to do so really,not because any religious beliefs i may have.

You base a lot of your points on south park episodes,which obviously just do things for controversy and so people will watch(i'm not going to be a hypocrite,i do watch south park:pac:) but they make fun of everything,and a lot of it is nonsense.

ColmDawson · 14-05-2010 03:40PM

sensibleken wrote: »

theres a difference between freedom of speech and just plain being a dick.

im all up for free speech but all rights come with responsibilities.

doing stuff just to offend people is being a dick.

dick

Satire is the intent; the offence is merely a by-product.
If you're all for free speech then I'm sure we agree that people have the right to criticise and mock other people's beliefs, and that those who are offended ought to get over it or make a counter-argument, instead of murdering people.

sensibleken · 14-05-2010 03:42PM

sonicthebadger* wrote: »

In this wonderful world we all share it is possible to switch off; switch over; or just avert your eyes. If someone is trying to offend you they probably are being a dick, you can't kill them for it, if you could we'd just be having a competition over who's the biggest dick all the time and the winner would have the most kills.

Kinda puts me in mind of that dicks fcuk assholes speech from Team America.

true but why strive to be a dick? violent reation by some muslims to these cartoons is dickish behaviour bred from dickish behaviour of cartoonists.

this is also freedom of speech

and its being a dick

another way of expressing your freedom of speech is drawing a picture of a close friends mother being gang raped, putting it on a t shirt and turning up to your friends mothers funeral.

and then blaming everyone for not looking the other way when in actual fact you were being a dick

storm2811 · 14-05-2010 03:45PM

sensibleken wrote: »

true but why strive to be a dick? violent reation by some muslims to these cartoons is dickish behaviour bred from dickish behaviour of cartoonists.

this is also freedom of speech

and its being a dick

another way of expressing your freedom of speech is drawing a picture of a close friends mother being gang raped, putting it on a t shirt and turning up to your friends mothers funeral.

and then blaming everyone for not looking the other way when in actual fact you were being a dick

What's going on in that pic?

I think I'll add my own freedom of speech while being a dick picture..

http://www.thebreman.org/exhibitions/online/1000kids/derjude.jpg

ColmDawson · 14-05-2010 03:46PM

sensibleken wrote: »

another way of expressing your freedom of speech is drawing a picture of a close friends mother being gang raped, putting it on a t shirt and turning up to your friends mothers funeral.

and then blaming everyone for not looking the other way when in actual fact you were being a dick

They're free to tell him exactly how much of an asshole they think he is, but they're not free to murder him.

Zombrex · 14-05-2010 03:49PM

sensibleken wrote: »

true but why strive to be a dick?

To demonstrate that you have that freedom.

If a Danish cartoonists wants to be a dick he should be able to without threat of death.

MikeC101 · 14-05-2010 03:50PM

storm2811 wrote: »

But in christanity,it doesn't say that we can't show images of jesus,same goes for buddhism,hinduism,judaism etc.
But for muslims,it is something that offends them and is a strong belief of theirs,and we just do it anyway.

Different religions (and different interpretations of religions) also say we can't divorce, have sex outside marriage, be gay (or engage in gay sexual relations), eat pork, eat shellfish etc etc...

Do we not do those things in case it might offend adherents or those religions? What makes the Mohammed issue any different?

Religious people need to learn their beliefs apply only to them, and they have no right to force those beliefs on others.

strobe · 14-05-2010 03:54PM

storm2811 wrote: »

I think I'll add my own freedom of speech while being a dick picture..

http://www.thebreman.org/exhibitions/online/1000kids/derjude.jpg

I don't know the backround to that picture. Could you clarify something for me? Did the Jewish guy depicted in it slit some guys throat and then say that anyone that teases him in future will get the same done to them?? If so, I'd say fair balls to the artist.

pwd · 14-05-2010 03:56PM

MikeC101 wrote: »

(The genuine version of this comic is weird enough)

darn I was going to do that

Morlar · 14-05-2010 03:57PM

I don't accept the excuse that those depicting momo are antagonistic, disrespectful or 'being a dick'.

They are making an important point about freedom of expression.

The fact that muslims don't like it does not mean that the intention therefore has to be 'merely' to irritate muslims.

Muslims are taught to revere mohammed and whatever, not portray him in a manner that might offend etc - I am not a muslim, so the rules of the muslim faith do not apply to me or to any non muslims living in a western liberal society.

If we lived in an islamic state then it would be a different story. Likewise muslims living in the west need to embrace, respect and understand this principle. If this principle is incompatible with their faith they should move to a likeminded country.

Draw Mohammed Day, May 20th

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