David Curran found guilty of Polish mens murder

tfitzgerald · 08-05-2010 12:16PM

if he got 20 years anybody know how much time he will actually do a friend of mine who knows everything:( said he will be unlucky if he does 10

FUNKY LOVER · 08-05-2010 12:25PM

mikom wrote: »

Until we find the cause of why a poster would have the motivation to do something like this instead of just saying oh he should be banned etc,it will continue to happen.

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the Gander

finally someone can see what im getting at.

Run_to_da_hills · 08-05-2010 12:45PM

tfitzgerald wrote: »

if he got 20 years anybody know how much time he will actually do a friend of mine who knows everything:( said he will be unlucky if he does 10

For his own good he would want to do the full stretch.

Gunsfortoys · 08-05-2010 01:01PM

He was off his face on drink and drugs, this should be capitalised on so that people will be more wary of what they are taking and how much, im not saying that it was an excuse, im simply saying that he might have thought more carefully of what he did had he been of sound mind.

bonerm · 08-05-2010 01:01PM

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Not sure where the bull**** stops and reality kicks in for this kind of thing. AFAIK, mountjoy prison has a library and some snooker tables. Certain prisoners have radios and televisions but they pay for them (not sure how).

I'd be very surprised if they have Internet if they're not even allowed mobiles. Be suprised if there were many contraband netbooks kicking around. May be different in different Irish prisons and prisons abroad.

On a separate note, Irish Prison officers have to maintain security and safety for all prisoners and allow them their basic rights. Taking 700/1000 dangerous men in very confined conditions and saying "right you're never getting out, you're not getting any special privileges so don't bother having good behaviour, don't mess around or we'll beat the crap out of you" won't work. At the end of the day, it's just a job for these guys, and they don't want to get stabbed by some dodgy **** because he's ultra miserable in prison.

Furthermore, prisons aren't rehab centers either. It's a hard balance to find between keeping the prisons operating safely for everyone and providing basic service cost effectively.

I always wondered why we didn't introduce some sort of mass dungeon/oubliette system for prisoners in this country. Basically an underground system of 1-man rooms that you're locked in 24 hours a day and the only time you get a visitor is when your food is delivered.

Forget exercise, forget reform, forget visitors, forget ever talking to anyone ever again until your term is done.

Sure it'd be inhuman but You could probably run the place easier, cheaper, safer, and it'd be more of a disinsentive for those who treat prison like it was some sort of social club or rite of passage. I'd say you could put a person in place like this for a month and they'd be punished more and thought more of a lesson for their crimes than they would have in a year in the current system.

Of course in the case of Curran I'd literally just throw away the key.

delta720 · 08-05-2010 01:09PM

Seifer wrote: »

Can the judge make the sentences run one after the other or is he forced to make them concurrent?

He has the choice, but these guys live in a different world from the rest of us.

theboxer · 08-05-2010 01:17PM

Einhard wrote: »

LOL yeah, here Australia, we don't want these two murderin' ****ers anymore so we're sending em over to you lot.

Oz? Far too cushy. Send these two rodents to Sudan on emergency passports(valid for two weeks). Give them a couple of hundred quid and wish them bon voyage.:)

ToniTuddle · 08-05-2010 01:36PM

sickofwaiting wrote: »

OK can someone show me where the judge said he was getting "10 years for each life he took". I keep seeing people saying he's only got 20 years - AFAIK he was given a life sentence. So he may never get out, although he likely will with this being a joke of a soft touch country. The point is that he hasn't been given "20 years", with a life sentence it is down to the discretion of the authorities when he gets out. There are a couple of guys who have been in for over 30 years.

I never said anything about the judge saying he was getting 10 years for each one.

A life sentence in Ireland does not mean an actual life sentence.
According to reports on here he has been given 20 years, so that is basically like saying he has been only given 10 years for each life he took. That's the way it looks.

Jax Teller · 08-05-2010 01:38PM

I used to hang around with him when I was like 12 or something always a scumbag

mcmoustache · 08-05-2010 01:52PM

Regarding the posters who say we should be looking at society and how it creates these monsters instead of punishing them, you are half right. Sure we should look at what's wrong with society but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't punish murderers.

It's kind of like a t-shirt. If you look after your shirt by cleaning it and looking after it, you'll have many happy years together.

If instead, you abuse it and it gets full of holes, you should do some soul-searching as to how it happened. But you should definitely throw it out.

We can ask questions about our society but that fúcker should be castrated, impaled and burned. Who knows, if shíts like that got castrated, there would be less of them. Society's problems solved.

I know it's simplistic but it just might work

Hayte · 08-05-2010 02:10PM

A life sentence means exactly that. You go to jail for the rest of your life. The 12 to 35 years thing refers to when you are eligible for parole but the decision to allow opportunity to apply for parole and when rests with the Judge. The Judge may decide that the crime is so severe that you never become eligible for parole. Furthermore the Parole Board of Ireland may determine at every parole review that you still constitute a threat to society and repeatedly decline your application for parole. It should be and currently is evaluated on an individual basis.

The logic behind it is that the law should have both a punitive and reformative aspect to it. You have seen the punishment side of things - we separate criminally minded individuals from society and put them in jail to protect that society.

In terms of reform, you may want to think about how different a person you will be 30 years from now and so the Minister for Justice, Equity and Law Reform in conjunction with the Parole Board determine whether the incarcerated may be able to give something back to the community. It wont be what they took in the first place but it is possible that in some small measure that after some time they may be able to atone for their crimes.

In making its recommendations, the Parole Board of Ireland considers a number of factors, which include:

citizensinformation.ie wrote:

whether the prisoner's release would constitute a threat to the community;
whether it is reasonable to grant early/temporary release in view of the nature and circumstances of the offence committed;
whether the offender warrants release, taking into account his or her behaviour in custody;
whether there are there any compelling compassionate grounds which merit special consideration
whether the offender has engaged constructively with the prison-based therapeutic services to combat his/her offending behaviour.

Personally, I don't want to live in a society that chooses to 'castrate, impale and burn' our own, regardless of how far the fall. In doing so, we are proving to be every bit as barbaric, intolerant and as much of a threat to ourselves and each other as so called criminal elements in our own society.

Curran was convicted by a jury of his peers (ordinary folks like you and me), he was found guilty of the double murder and at the very least hes going to serve the mandatory minimum. After that hes going to fail as many parole reviews as it takes until he can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he can actually be of some positive use to society. If he never does, he'll die in jail. Thats pretty much all there is to it. But complaining that hes only going to get 12 years is stupid. At least wait 12 years and see if he gets parole. THEN complain about it.

bonerm · 08-05-2010 02:16PM

Hayte wrote: »

But complaining that hes only going to get 12 years is stupid. Wait 12 years and see if he gets parole. THEN complain about it.

I'm sure many people would rather not have to wait 12 years and instead know for sure right now that he won't.

sickofwaiting · 08-05-2010 02:20PM

ToniTuddle wrote: »

I never said anything about the judge saying he was getting 10 years for each one.

A life sentence in Ireland does not mean an actual life sentence.
According to reports on here he has been given 20 years, so that is basically like saying he has been only given 10 years for each life he took. That's the way it looks.

He was not given 20 years, he was given a life sentence. Someone came out with 20 years early in the thread off the top of their head and people have gone with it since. Fact is, with a life sentence its up to the authorites how long he spends in jail but due to this country being so soft on crime and the fact that he was only 17 when he committed these murders I really think he will be out in less than 20 years whereas in nearly every other country he would be locked up for life.

ToniTuddle · 08-05-2010 02:23PM

sickofwaiting wrote: »

He was not given 20 years, he was given a life sentence. Someone came out with 20 years early in the thread off the top of their head and people have gone with it since. Fact is, with a life sentence its up to the authorites how long he spends in jail but due to this country being so soft on crime and the fact that he was only 17 when he committed these murders I really think he will be out in less than 20 years whereas in nearly every other country he would be locked up for life.

As I said I was only going on what reports were on here.
I think everyone is annoyed at the fact alot of criminals do get let out early when some really shouldn't.

Micky Dolenz · 08-05-2010 02:38PM

FUNKY LOVER banned for abuse.

ch750536 · 08-05-2010 02:49PM

He did a massive wrong, no denying that. Personally I'd always look to someone like this to be given opportunity to turn around what they have done to some extent.

Lets imagine in 10 years time he is a completely different person, sorry for his actions and wanting to make amends. Lets imagine he has also stated he wants to stop others making the same mistake he has.

To have someone like him talking to gangs of 17 yr olds about the dangers of violence, drugs & drink in the hope of stopping some of the violence on the streets would have to be listened to.

If it turned out to be genuine then he could undo some of the wrong. If it turned out to be false then this is a massive risk.

I like to get as much positive out of any negative, throwing away the key offers no positives.

Einhard · 08-05-2010 02:59PM

theboxer wrote: »

Oz? Far too cushy.

Have you seen what happens to newbs in that place???:eek:

Oh, you mean the country. Never mind then...

Einhard · 08-05-2010 03:05PM

mcmoustache wrote: »

We can ask questions about our society but that fúcker should be castrated, impaled and burned. Who knows, if shíts like that got castrated, there would be less of them. Society's problems solved.

Yup. The best way to reduce violence in society is for the state to get involved in dishing it out with all the brutality it can muster. Utopia here we come. I mean, it really worked in the Middle Ages and all...

Run_to_da_hills · 08-05-2010 03:15PM

ch750536 wrote: »

I like to get as much positive out of any negative, throwing away the key offers no positives.

Throwing away the keys for good should make scumbags think twice of carrying out such atrocities.

Hayte · 08-05-2010 03:23PM

bonerm wrote: »

I'm sure many people would rather not have to wait 12 years and instead know for sure right now that he won't.

He is going to jail for life because he was given 2 mandatory life sentences. How much of those sentences he serves is subject to ongoing review but the kind of crime we are talking about here is just mindblowing. 2 dead with no provocation. No remorse shown. When he was caught he tried to blame Keogh for the stabbing. There were multiple attempts at deception and attempts to mislead law enforcement by constructing false alibis. The double murder itself was preceded by a string of lesser crimes including the theft of a moped and the violation of probation (and thats just in one day). The only guilt that he and his friends seem to have shown is that of getting caught so theres very few reasons to cut him some slack.

Even if he gets released before he dies in a cell due to any of the reasons quoted from the Parole Board then its appropriate to complain about it then not now when you don't even know when he is going to be let out. Or if hes even going to be let out because I don't know the terms of his eligibility for parole.

Either way he will never be able to lead a normal life. If he gets let out early, he will be vilified no matter how justified the parole terms. He will never be able to get job because anyone that knows what he has done will be repulsed and mistrustful of him. He will be spending what should be regarded as the best years of his life in a cell. He is finished. In a way he has forfeited his life for those he took. Any semblance of a normal and happy one anyway. Nothing good has come of all this.

Heres a quote from Friday's Irish Times:

Fiona Gartlan, Irish Times Friday 7th May 2010 wrote:

Behind the rows of legal counsel and reporters, the family and friends of Keogh were gathered. Curran had no family or friends in the courtroom.

...

The tired looking foreman handed the indictment paper to the court clerk and the verdict was read out. Curran was guilty of murdering Mr Kalite and his friend Marius Szwajkos. Keogh, who had pleaded guilty to assault, was not guilty of murder.

Relief spread across Keogh's face. His family and friends cried and hugged each other. Curran was initially stunned and then put his head in his hands and began to cry. Ms Kalite wept quietly.

Mr Justice McKechnie told counsel for the prosecution, John O' Kelly SC, that he would take the victim impact statement this morning. He said he would sentence Keogh next week.

When the judge retired, Keogh was removed from the dock but Curran remained. Gardai eventually removed him. Ms Kalite was brought out the side door of the court by gardai, away from photographers at the front.

At this point all thats left to say is that I would hope that Ms Kalite and the relatives of the slain can salvage something of the rest of their lives and eventually find some peace. But I doubt it.

shampoosuicide · 08-05-2010 03:41PM

bit of a morbid one but does anyone know roughly how long the two lads were conscious after being stabbed? imagine knowing there's a screwdriver lodged in your skull.

another question, purely hypothetical: if the second lad had grabbed the screwdriver and stabbed curran, would he likely have been charged with something or would it have been justifiable self-defense?

Hayte · 08-05-2010 03:49PM

Self defense would mean that your life would have to be threatened and enough to justify outright killing your assailant. It doesn't sound from your hypothetical that there is an element of danger posed to the second lad to justify smashing a screwdriver into his head.

Murder is really a whole different thing though because it has motive. To prove murder you have to demonstrate that a person of sound mind not only killed someone but intended to do so with 'malice aforethought'. The motive bit is always hard to prove.

Having never been stabbed in the head with a screwdriver, I'm not sure I could say what it would feel like or whether I would be aware of it. A few pages back I recall someone saying that a passerby arrived at the scene before the gardai arrived and he said Mr Kalite and Mr Szwaijkos appeared to be in pain and showed fear. Can't comment on the veracity of that statement but its easier to think that it was anything else.

shampoosuicide · 08-05-2010 04:16PM

Hayte wrote: »

Self defense would mean that your life would have to be threatened and enough to justify outright killing your assailant. It doesn't sound from your hypothetical that there is an element of danger posed to the second lad to justify smashing a screwdriver into his head.

Murder is really a whole different thing though because it has motive. To prove murder you have to demonstrate that a person of sound mind not only killed someone but intended to do so with 'malice aforethought'. The motive bit is always hard to prove.

Having never been stabbed in the head with a screwdriver, I'm not sure I could say what it would feel like or whether I would be aware of it. A few pages back I recall someone saying that a passerby arrived at the scene before the gardai arrived and he said Mr Kalite and Mr Szwaijkos appeared to be in pain and showed fear. Can't comment on the veracity of that statement but its easier to think that it was anything else.

"Having never been stabbed in the head with a screwdriver" - not sure there's any need for that clause, but thanks for clarifying.

also, how is seeing a person stabbed through the skull by a psycho right in front of you not considered a reasonable threat to your life?

sesna · 08-05-2010 04:44PM

Did you see the ugly dog like freakily ginger inbred's picture on the paper, with the dog’s eyes that killed 2 hard working eastern Europeans with a screwdriver?

I have always thought that a large proportion of Irish were dirty, violent, crime prone breed.

I also note one of the jury was not satisfied of Curran's guilt. Perhaps one of his degenerate inner city ilk.

mikom · 08-05-2010 04:52PM

sesna wrote: »

I have always thought that a large proportion of Irish were dirty, violent, crime prone breed.

What a pile of bollox.

Tell me where you're from and I'll come up with a thought about your background.

shampoosuicide · 08-05-2010 04:54PM

mikom wrote: »

What a pile of bollox.

not sure. i'm probably on shaky, slightly racist ground but you walk around Dublin and you look at certain people - they look like mutants, you can see the violence and viciousness in their face. i'm sure a lot of people know what i'm talking about. so i kind of see where the poster is coming from there, if not completely agree

mikom · 08-05-2010 04:56PM

shampoosuicide wrote: »

but you walk around Dublin and you look at certain people - they look like mutants, you can see the violence and viciousness in their face.

Dublin ≠ Ireland.
Try again.

shampoosuicide · 08-05-2010 04:58PM

mikom wrote: »

Dublin ≠ Ireland.
Try again.

it's by far and away the most populated part of Ireland. then you have a sizeable scumbag element in towns like Sligo and Limerick who you could say the same thing about. you just know by looking at certain people. stay the **** away.

mikom · 08-05-2010 04:59PM

I have always thought that a large proportion of Irish were clean, passive, law-abiding breed.

See how it works.

sesna · 08-05-2010 05:00PM

mikom wrote: »

I have always thought that a large proportion of Irish were clean, passive, law-abiding breed.

See how it works.

For some strange reason, that description doesnt ring as true.

David Curran found guilty of Polish mens murder

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