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Cat License

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    #122
    The Sweeper
    Registered Users Posts: 10,658 ✭✭✭✭The Sweeper


    neelyohara wrote: »
    How do you cat-proof your garden? If you have a cat how do you restrict it to your garden and if you don't have a cat, and you don't want them in your garden, how do you keep them out?

    First, you need a fully fenced garden.

    It isn't unreasonable to suggest that people wait until they have a fenced garden before getting a pet. You have to do it with dogs. Fences need to be about six feet tall. remember you can cap existing fences with decorative panels to make them the right height.

    Next, block all access under the fences - that's gaps, holds, clearance of more than two inches - you'd be amazed what a cat can squeeze through.

    The last thing is a fence capping system - something to stop the cats getting over the fence. Worldwide, there are both professionally-made and installed systems, or home made solutions.

    Mature trees near the boundary fence can be collared off with a piece of plastic - a smooth surface that the cat can't climb past.

    Here are some pics of some of the fence-capping systems, both professional and home-made, available if you want to keep your cats in. I'll link to these instead of filling the post with pics.

    These first two are Australian products. That's important to note- but the companies are starting to supply overseas as there is a growing international demand for catproofing. (They have an additional plus in Australia that they also keep possums out of your garden, a big plus to hobby gardeners, because possums really destroy your plants.)

    Oscillot fencing - spinning paddles that sit in brackets and mean the cat cannot get purchase on top of the fence. Can be positioned on your side of the fence to keep your cats in, or on the top to keep yours in and others out.

    http://www.oscillot.com.au/Bracket._position.jpg

    Ping-string, static electric fencing for use in residential areas. Low voltage and solar powered, the charge isn't strong enough to cause burns or damage, it's just like an unpleasant static zap. It's also not linked to collars or anything else that could hurt the cat - it's based on contact with the fence itself.

    http://www.sureguard.com.au/img/3_wire_roof.jpg

    The next most popular solution is brackets and netting - this is easy to do as a home-made solution, and some designs are less obvious than others.

    http://www.catsofaustralia.com/images/doreen1.jpg
    http://new.dpi.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/image/0012/6330/Cat-Enclosures-Fig-1.jpg
    http://www.purrfectfence.com/images/products/4476-600.jpg
    http://www.beestonfencingcompany.co.uk/images/cat-proof-fencing-sideview691x922.JPG

    Other solutions are similar to the netting approach - I've seen people fix tubes of chickenwire to the tops of their fences. It's worth noting that cats will not persist in trying to get over a fence when they fail a couple of times. Behaviourally, they don't like to be thwarted and if the first few running jumps fail, they calm down and then try a couple more, studied jumps. Then they just pretend they weren't interested in trying to get over the fence in the first place, and ignore it completely.

    It may look like a lot of work, but as a cat owner with a large back garden, I find it marvellous that I can throw my lot out there, they play chasing and hide and seek for a few hours, I go out and throw toys for them and play chasing with them, they wear themselves out and I can call them all in before dark and know they're all in the house with me overnight, not out playing dodge with the traffic or fighting with other cats.


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    #123
    neelyohara
    Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭neelyohara


    The Sweeper wrote: »
    It may look like a lot of work, but as a cat owner with a large back garden, I find it marvellous that I can throw my lot out there, they play chasing and hide and seek for a few hours, I go out and throw toys for them and play chasing with them, they wear themselves out and I can call them all in before dark and know they're all in the house with me overnight, not out playing dodge with the traffic or fighting with other cats.

    Good job! How many cats do you have?

    I honestly believe that any responsible caring cat owner will say this is exactly what they would want for their own animals - the freedom to let the animals out while knowing they are safe.

    I think one of the contributing factors to our problem in Ireland is that we don't have any 'pests' or predators that we need to be wary of. Most other countries have wild cats (as in the big ass variety!), coyotes, possums, snakes, crocs or alligators. Gardens are secured to keep things OUT as well as IN!


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    #124
    docmol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 339 ✭✭docmol


    I just let my new puppy out in our back garden, to do her before bedtime business (20 mins ago) I went back into the house and closed the back door. As I was putting the kettle on I heard the puppy scream, and ran out to her being attacked by a big black tom. The cat disappeared when I opened the door, and the puppy ran to me, her nose is all cut up. I know this cat, it belongs to a neighbor, who has been politely asked to keep it indoors at night. She refused. It drives the dogs in the area wild at night and has broken into our shed (my dad keeps birds, the shed is a cat magnet) Any cat owners out there like to suggest how I should deal with this? If cats were licensed I assume I could complain to a licensing authority...


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    #125
    neelyohara
    Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭neelyohara


    Orla K wrote: »
    He's too afraid to go outside but, lately there's been a female in heat outside and while he wants to go to her, he's still too afraid to go out ... some guy probably did something like kick him in the face breaking his two top canine teeth and leaving him in pain for years while they rotted in his head(the vet wasn't even able to pull them out they were that bad)

    I have wondered about 'agoraphobic' cats... I mean, as in trying to figure out how on earth some people can keep their animals indoors without going overboard on window locks, shut doors, extra fencing, etc... OR if cats kept indoors for their entire life would develop some sort of cat version of agoraphobia...

    That is truly awful about his teeth. Some people are just sick. At least he had you to take care of him and I imagine that physically he's in great shape now.
    20goto10 wrote: »
    He probably shat in someones garden.

    You're probably right, obviously he was asking for it.
    Wile E. Coyote wrote: »
    To all the posters calling for cat licences. What exactly do you think it would achieve?

    Dog licences don't stop dogs roaming free, barking all day and night, biting people or sh*ting all over playing fields and footpaths. So why do you think a cat licence would be any different?

    With our government I can imagine a license as another form of revenue and being completely pointless. I would hope that it might increase accountability and perhaps deter people from picking up a kitten as though it is a disposable pet. Those owners are the real problem. Unfortunately it would really only lead to the destruction of many animals.

    lrushe wrote: »
    Why should a cat be allowed to roam and not a dog? Cats and dogs are like comparing apples and oranges, simply because cats were never domesticated to the same extent as dogs, they never fully lost their independance or wildness and that's where they differ from dogs the most and why they suffer more from being confined.

    Yes! This is very, very true!

    People 'adopted' dogs because they are highly social animals, like all domestic animals they had a purpose... they were used for sleds, hunting, protection, herding. Human interference in their breeding has resulted in the creatures we have today which bears little or no relation to their wolf like ancestors.

    Dogs are generally not considered animals of prey as we have modified their behaviours through selective breeding. A sheepdog herding sheep or a gun dog retrieving a kill are examples of this 'prey' behavior.

    Cats on the other hand became domesticated for the very reasons people have complained about! Our farming attracted rodents and birds, the cats killed these 'pests' and obviously we wanted to keep them around. The cats wanted to stick around because our activity was a source of food for them.

    The genetic differences between a wildcat and a domestic cat is minimal... in fact the domestic moggy is actually a subspecies of wildcat (wildcat being a genuine species like a Tiger and not another word for feral).

    Our interference has completely changed dogs from their original ancestors.... and by changed I mean physically some muscles have atrophied as they are no longer needed/used by todays dogs, mentally they lost their prey instincts (research shows this instinct has disappeared as feral dogs will scavange for food and not revert back to wolf like preying), psychologically they have changed from animals that lived in a dominant hierarchy (as in you put up a fight to be pack leader) to now accepting the hierarchy they are put into (and are happy once they know their place).

    Cats on the other hand were never domesticated this way. As it is cats are still very much asocial and as any owner knows!

    As Irushe said, you are trying to compare two completely different species both domesticated for very different reasons and to very different extents.
    irishbird wrote: »
    there are 3 cats around my house all the time, i have seen them fighting on the bonnet of my car and i seen the scratches afterwards. thats fantastic that they dont damage YOUR car but they are destroying MY car.

    I have to say I've never noticed this on any of the cars we have had, but the same time this wouldn't over concern me as cars get scratched. If not by bushes, briars and hedges then other people banging or scraping them. Just driving on the road means loose chippings.
    irishbird wrote: »
    then there was my beautiful woodpigeon, half chewed up and left in the middle of the grass with feathers everywhere - i cried when i seen this. he had been visiting me since he was little with his parents

    Unfortunately this is just nature. I wouldn't be too quick to point the finger at a cat. It may be a bird of prey... even your common magpie will kill other birds (and I'm not just talking about baby birds, I see a fully grown pigeon being attacked once). It could also be a fox.
    irishbird wrote: »
    i had to bin my potatoes last year because of the cat poo

    That's gross. Cats are incredibly clean and my two have cat litter boxes that they use religiously (in an outdoor shed they have access to). If I let them out to poop they'll trot up into their shed, go, and come back in a few minutes.

    You should try to find out who owns the cats and see if it is something they might consider.

    Another solution is that you provide some sort of facility or area for them. This isn't ideal, it isn't your responsibility and I know you'll probably read this and scream :o I only mention it because if you don't have any luck with your neighbours and you do have cats using your garden then at least this way you can limit their damage.
    irishbird wrote: »
    no matter what i do, i cant keep them out of the shed, which smells of ....i dont know but it is horrible plus the fact when i open the shed door they jump out at me.

    i now have a tom spraying my garden - the smell is really, truly delightful

    Oh yeah... the smell from an un-neutered tom is pretty potent. How are they getting into the shed? Are there holes somewhere?
    irishbird wrote: »
    i am afraid to keep my back door or windows open, as they have come in to the house before

    I feel your pain. I'm tearing my hair out because of an un-neutered, unvaccinated tom cat that my neighbours decided to get to entertain their daughter. Never mind the fact the previous FOUR kittens they got for her never made it to adulthood, that the poor creature is locked out day and night without food until it can eventually escape their garden.

    He has now attached himself to my garden and takes every opportunity to get in to the house as he knows exactly where the food is. My heart goes out to him.
    irishbird wrote: »
    as long as the cat owners are happy, what does my quality of life or happiness matter
    TooManyDogs wrote: »
    I think that's the point, the majority of cat owners just don't care.

    These statements keep coming up, as though most cat owners are completely selfish and perhaps even take pleasure out of making other people miserable.

    I think you'll find it's more like the majority of PROBLEM cat owners just don't care.

    That's the issue here isn't it? I mean, the only cats you are aware of are the problem ones... for all you know each of your neighbours could be the stereotypical crazy cat ladies... but because the cats are under control you aren't aware of them.

    I'm not even talking about keeping the cats indoors.

    Neutered toms don't have the inclination to go around spraying or wandering, cats sleep anywhere from 16 - 20 hours per day and are most active in the early morning or at dusk (which is when their prey wakes up) which is why cats should be kept indoors overnight. I keep my in from 8pm - 7am, it's just part of their routine and as I said above, cats are exceptionally clean. If a litter box is provided for them they'll use it rather than crap in the garden. I don't have a box in the house... I don't have anywhere to store it... but putting on in the shed works perfectly. And I clean out the damn thing and I'm pretty sure it's where they go all the time.... either that or the entire neighbourhood of cats is crapping in it with them!

    We all know people can be assholes and really shouldn't have pets. You have experience of one or two bad cat owners (hopefully they do have owners) but you can't tar ALL cat owners with the same stick. I don't think it's even fair to blame a cat for doing what comes naturally... When a dog craps on a pavement I don't blame the dog I blame the owner for not cleaning it up.


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    #126
    The Sweeper
    Registered Users Posts: 10,658 ✭✭✭✭The Sweeper


    neelyohara wrote: »
    How many cats do you have?

    Six of various ages. They're all neutered, microchipped, vaccinated and kept on my property. I had them as inside-only cats, but once I cat-proofed my fence they now go out daily into my large yard and get exercise. I take the same approach as I would with a dog - if I'm working, they get a runabout in the morning of about an hour, and the same when I get home from work in the evening. If I'm not working, they're outside for four or five hours, poking about and stalking insects and the mice that live in the overgrown grass in my garden. (I'm on a 1200m2 block, so it's a big yard - half of it is cultivated as garden beds, some of it is lawn, and the rest is overgrown islands of grass specifically for the cats to play in).

    Maintaining the cats this intensively, while not what most cat owners expect to have to do with their cats, means I have extremely social cats. They come when they're called, they're quite biddable and have some degree of training (I prefer to call it 'conditioning' because they are cats, after all). This means I can warn them away from things with a 'leave it' command, similarly to a dog. A couple of them will also fetch. They'll stay put for a while too - like if I'm washing the floor I can get them to stop at the boundary of the wet floor, or go around it. One will occasionally still jump on my kitchen counter, but will jump off when told 'get down'.

    So yes, cats are trainable. They're just not as approval-driven as dogs are. The more you put into cats, the more you get out of them.


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    #127
    neelyohara
    Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭neelyohara


    The Sweeper wrote: »
    They come when they're called, they're quite biddable and have some degree of training (I prefer to call it 'conditioning' because they are cats, after all). This means I can warn them away from things with a 'leave it' command, similarly to a dog. A couple of them will also fetch. They'll stay put for a while too - like if I'm washing the floor I can get them to stop at the boundary of the wet floor, or go around it. One will occasionally still jump on my kitchen counter, but will jump off when told 'get down'.

    My god.... you're the cat whisperer! You need a television show NOW!!! I can't even get mine to look at me when I talk to them!


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    #128
    neelyohara
    Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭neelyohara


    docmol wrote: »
    I know this cat, it belongs to a neighbor, who has been politely asked to keep it indoors at night. She refused. It drives the dogs in the area wild at night and has broken into our shed (my dad keeps birds, the shed is a cat magnet) Any cat owners out there like to suggest how I should deal with this?

    I really don't know. I guess I would call your local animal authorities and see if they can help.

    I would definitely go back to your neighbour, explain the situation (perhaps speak to some other neighbours for back-up) and that if the cat remained out at nighttime that you would follow up with the authorities.

    In regards the dogs barking, well, it's the dogs barking thats the problem not a cat! It doesn't matter why they are barking, the issue is that they ARE barking. It will also be almost impossible to prove that a specific cat is responsible for the racket! Personally I think animals shouldn't be out at night - cats or dogs.

    In regards to the birds - I really don't know what to say. Cats don't have a normal collarbone meaning they can squish their bodies into the tiniest of spaces, having an outdoor aviary means spending time and money ensuring that it is fox/cat proof.

    You should look at The Sweepers post #122 - he has some really good info on cat proofing your property (keeping them in or out!)
    docmol wrote: »
    If cats were licensed I assume I could complain to a licensing authority...

    There are no licensing laws for cats at the moment, hence our debate... but yes, if there were more regulations you would at least have someone to complain to.

    I don't know where you live but it might be worth checking to see if there are any local restrictions in your estate. Some buildings/estates limit the animals you can have. If you are in council owned property you should check the tenant guide, it will tell you about the animals you can and can't keep and what to do if there is a problem.

    And good luck with the toilet training! :D


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    #129
    bad2dabone
    Registered Users Posts: 6,333 ✭✭✭bad2dabone


    As a cat owner I really feel cats should be licensed, and having the cat chipped and neutered should be a condition of the licence (an exemption may be made i'm sure for breeding cats)

    My cat is an indoor / outdoor cat who does his poo in our flowerbed i'm happy to say but he's bullied by a bigger neighborhood unspayed male who has even come into our house on occasion. Until I got this bad boy

    519GjQ7884L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

    and blasted him a few times.

    I feel for people who have poop in their gardens, and the "dog lobby" have a point about the cats who just poop where they like and the
    owners not caring about it. It's a pretty ****ty (no pun intended) attitude to have.

    I'd like to train our cat into being an indoor cat but he miaows for hours (literally i wanted to strangle him) if you don't let him out.

    Also when he's out I do worry about him, i'd be devastated if anything happened to him. I'm going to look into that fencing, but i know he'll be bored sitting in the garden after 2 years of wandering.

    and he's so handsome :D (http://i44.tinypic.com/6z8txw.jpg)


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    #130
    morganafay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭morganafay


    The Sweeper wrote: »
    What happened to them all?

    This is over about 15 years, including strays, abandoned kittens/cats, feral kittens/cats, orphaned kittens. Kittens don't always survive. I lived in the countryside so not many cars but they drove too fast so usually a couple of cats would get knocked down a year. Now I live on the edge of a town though, there's more cars but they drive slowly and my cats don't go on the road anyway. Then there were the ones that wandered off. I didn't have my tom cats neutered when I was a kid so they sometimes wandered off, but now they're all neutered. Then a few illnesses but not many. Mostly just kittens that didn't survive and gave away loads to people I know (just kittens). I still have some of the cats from when I had loads, they're old now. And some people still have a few of them too. It's really weird when I count back how many I had, but seriously did have that many from when I was like 7 to 22 now.

    I live by a safe road, never see any cats knocked down there, and my cats are all neutered and vaccinated. That's all I can do for them to keep them safe and stop annoying people . . . until I have my own house.


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    #131
    adser53
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    neelyohara wrote: »
    In regards the dogs barking, well, it's the dogs barking thats the problem not a cat! It doesn't matter why they are barking, the issue is that they ARE barking. It will also be almost impossible to prove that a specific cat is responsible for the racket! Personally I think animals shouldn't be out at night - cats or dogs.

    Ah come on now neely you can't possibly believe that's a fair attitude to have. If it was kids tormenting my dogs and they barked at them, my attitude qould be the same. Typical example of a day in the life of adsrer53:I'm at home, dogs are silent, barking starts and I look out to see the neighbour's cats sitting on the fence over them. I go out, give out to my dogs and shoo the cat away. Silence for another while aaaannnnddd repeat. The problem here is'nt my dogs barking as they aren't barking constantly or for no reason its the cats. I admitted already that they may bark at a bird or stranger near the back of the house but these are very rare occurences and are random environmental things that any dog would bark at. The same cats coming in every hour or so is just a nuisance. I don't understand what you mean by it being difficult to prove, in my case I know these cats and who owns them, what else is there? Saying that is like me letting my dog roam to crap in someones garden and when they approach me I should say "prove it". I'm not going to go setting up cctv to prove what I already know and it's unfair to expect other people to do the same cos of someone elses pet (regardless of species). If it was dogs coming into my garden, or kids, I'd have the exact same attitude. And my dogs are only outside during the day.


    As for the whole cats and dogs beingg completely different thing. I don't think anyone here disagrees with that and I'm not saying ALL dog laws should be applied to cats. All I'm saying is that laws and controls for cats are needed and cat owners should be accountable for their pet and considerate towards people who don't want cats in their property. It's the attitude of SOME cat owners that believe their cat has a god given right to be in other peoples gardens that annoys people to no end cos theirs no talking to them. Look at this thread alone, how many people have defended their cats being in someone elses garden? To me thats the same as me letting my dogs into my neighbours yard because they're happier having a bit of extra space and it's just not on. I think the best way to put my arguement to rest on the whole cats vs dogs thing is that I believe the species of your pets is completely irrelevant, the actions, responsibilities of the owners and the consideration owed to your neighbours should always be the same be it a cat,dog,horse,snake or whatever

    .


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    #132
    20goto10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭20goto10


    irishbird wrote: »
    there are 3 cats around my house all the time, i have seen them fighting on the bonnet of my car and i seen the scratches afterwards. thats fantastic that they dont damage YOUR car but they are destroying MY car.

    so lets see what else i have had to put up with -

    there was the cat vomit on my kitchen windowsill - i was charmed and delighted to come home from work and find a half digested chicken regurgitated on the windowsill. it really made my day.


    then there was my beautiful woodpigeon, half chewed up and left in the middle of the grass with feathers everywhere - i cried when i seen this. he had been visiting me since he was little with his parents

    all my newly planted flower pots were dug up and the pots used as a litter tray - had to bin them.

    i planted onions and garlic because i heard cats dont like them, got up one morning to the cat digging them up and eating them.

    i can no longer grow veg in my garden, because of the poo - i have had to put my strawberries in hanging baskets to keep them from shtting on them, and it looks like the lettuces are going to have to that way.

    i had to bin my potatoes last year because of the cat poo

    no matter what i do, i cant keep them out of the shed, which smells of ....i dont know but it is horrible plus the fact when i open the shed door they jump out at me.

    i now have a tom spraying my garden - the smell is really, truly delightful

    i am afraid to keep my back door or windows open, as they have come in to the house before

    they are terrorizing me in my own home but as long as the cat owners are happy, what does my quality of life or happiness matter

    i live in a terraced house, with a small'ish garden, i love to garden and it is one of the reasons i bought my house but i can no longer use my garden and this makes we sad but as long as everyone else is happy what difference does it make
    That sounds like very strange behaviour. They could be wild or feral. I know a lady nearby we call cat woman who "owns" dozens of cats but they are all wild and she just feeds them. There is a big difference in behaviour between a wild/feral cat and a domestic cat. Just because a cat has an owner doesn't necessarily make it a domesticated cat. As with any animal. I'm sure you can imagine how a dog would behave in similar situation. Maybe you should call the RSPCA.


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    #133
    STForSale
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭STForSale


    So just to sumarise:

    Cats should be allowed go where every they like, including into peoples houses / sheds if you leave a window open.

    Cats 5hitting all over the place is not a problem, people should expect to find animal feces on their paths, driveways, lawns and flower beds.

    If a cat climbs onto the bonet of your car and there a very fine scratch marks left, this is a coincidience, despite the fact that we all know how sharp cats claws are, they are somehow incapablel of scratching paintwork.

    If a dog attacks a cat, the dog owner is liable for the cats vet bills and refusal to pay can result in the dog being destroyed.(see earlier post)
    When a cat attacks a small dog, again its tuff.

    Cats killing songbirds is nature, dogs killing cats is cruelty.

    Cats fighting on the street is ok, deal with it.

    Are cats the pet of choice for irresponsible people or is it a coincidence?
    I take this back, there are a minority of cat owners here who seem to at least be trying to safeguard their pets welfare and minimise the intrusinon they cause on other peoples lives.


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    #134
    20goto10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭20goto10


    No the facts are cat owners do not have to keep their cats indoors because it's cruel, do not have to walk them on a lead because they cannot follow them up trees, along walls, over roof tops etc

    they do have to neuter them, microchip them and vaccinate them. I don't think this is law but I know my vet certainly suggested I will not be allowed own the cat otherwise.

    most cat owners are sensible and have domesticated their pets as much as possible. It is the nature of a cat to have a bit of wildness, a licence is not going to change that.

    Nobody likes **** including dog **** and don't tell me we don't have dog **** in our front gardens and public places.

    A barking dog is the responsibility of the dog owner, period. There are many things that can cause a fog to bark, it doesn't matter what is causing it it is your responsibility.

    Oh, and toxoplasmosis comes from raw meat. Yes it can be found in cat ****, dog **** and all sorts if **** but the source is raw meat.

    I'm sorry you are being bullied by a group of cats. But I'm sorry but I also find it kind of funny! Seriously man just deal with it. I'm sure you can think of something. A super soaker will definitely work, give it a try. I'm sure you'll even get a kick out of it.


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    #135
    neelyohara
    Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭neelyohara


    neelyohara wrote: »
    In regards the dogs barking, well, it's the dogs barking thats the problem not a cat! It doesn't matter why they are barking, the issue is that they ARE barking. It will also be almost impossible to prove that a specific cat is responsible for the racket! Personally I think animals shouldn't be out at night - cats or dogs

    adser53 wrote: »
    Ah come on now neely you can't possibly believe that..... The problem here is not my dogs barking (although that would be a problem if they barked constantly or for no reason-not my case) its the cats. I don't understand what you mean by difficult to prove, I know these cats and who owns them, what else is there? Saying that is like me letting my dog roam to crap in someones garden and when they approach me I should say "prove it"

    I don't think I explained myself clearly (posting at nearly 4am will do that to you!).

    The 'difficult to prove' part is down to a black cat in the middle of the night, the OP might not even have a visual on the cat. The dogs barking might be 10 or 20 houses away or across the street. While the cat may cause the dogs to bark it may not be the only reason.

    I also think it's the responsibility of the dog/cat owner to keep the dog/cat in at night and that in this case it's 50/50 as to who is to blame for the problem.

    I agree that if the cat is causing the dogs to bark then the cat is the problem... what I was trying to say is what did the OP find a problem... a cat sitting on a wall or the dogs barking? The complaint was the dogs barking... for whatever reason. If she reported this to the authorities who would they pursue? The dog owners. The dogs are making the noise. I'm not saying this is right or fair.

    I had a similar issue before. In my case it was kids climbing walls around my property and driving my dog insane. The complaint from other neighbours was that my dog was barking. They didn't care why, their complaint was the noise pollution.

    adser53 wrote: »
    All we'rew aaying is that laws and controls are needed and cat owners should be accountable for their pet and considerate towards people who don't want cats in their property. It's the attitude of SOME cat owners that believe their cat has a right to be in other peoples gardens that annoys people. I think the best way to put my arguement to rest on the whole cats vs dogs thing is that species of pet is irrelevant, the actions and the reaponsibilities of thr owners are the same.

    Absolutely agree with you 100%

    I'd also add in that animal control and welfare is underfunded and under resourced and plays into the problem.


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    #136
    adser53
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    20goto10 wrote: »
    Nobody likes **** including dog **** and don't tell me we don't have dog **** in our front gardens and public places.

    A barking dog is the responsibility of the dog owner, period. There are many things that can cause a dog to bark, it doesn't matter what is causing it it is your responsibility.

    I'm sorry you are being bullied by a group of cats. But I'm sorry but I also find it kind of funny! Seriously man just deal with it. I'm sure you can think of something. A super soaker will definitely work, give it a try. I'm sure you'll even get a kick out of it.

    No one denies dog crap in public places isn't a problem BUT, and i'll emphasis that BUT, there are laws and fines in place for these. They aren't enforced well enough unfortunatly and believe me we tried to get residents in my estate done for it. We provided names, addresses and the dates and times of the repeat offences and got nowhere. Thats unfortunate but it's the state of this country. My arguement is that there are no laws for cats at all. If there were none for dogs, the problems of roaming and pooping would be much worse. As you said, **** is **** and it's not nice.

    I can understand your point about barking dogs that are a nuisance, neglected, bored etc but when the problem is black and white, i.e cats roaming, you can't put the full onus on the dog owner. Same case if kids were purposely tormenting a dog. Is that the owners fault or the kids/parents? Everyones moans about responsible dog owners blah blah but the cat owners think they re free from any accountability or responsibilty.

    And I can think of plenty of things to stop it, some of which might get me arrested ;) but give me one good reason why I should go through the expense and the hassle? I've spent enough time and money being a responsible dog owner, why should do I more for some pr*ck and his cats. This is my problem throughout this whole thread. Dogs barking pooping etc are the owenrs responsibilty, period, as you put it. whos responsibilty are the cats? According to you, no ones. And IMO thats just BS. If you're not willing to look after your cats properly, you shouldnt have one. And god forbid a cat should be caught and injured by my dogs in my own garden because you can bet that'd be my fault too. Grow up and accept you have a pet thats your responsibilty, not your neighbours.


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    #137
    20goto10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭20goto10


    You just don't understand cats. How does the owner stop the cat. Poo is bad and as a cat owner I would love for someone to come up with a solution. To be honest I don't experience the problems you are saying. My cat is liked by the neighbours. The kids love her and the adults have mention how great it is that she catches vermin. People don't realize how much vermin is around but when you see a cat catching them on a regular basis you start to get the picture.

    I've already suggested that the Destructive behaviour you and other posters are experiencing sounds quite unusual. it sounds to me like the cats are wild and if they have an owner then there certainly is something you can do about it. I would suggest contacting the RSPCA.


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    #138
    adser53
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    20goto10 wrote: »
    You just don't understand cats. How does the owner stop the cat.
    A number of solutions have already been posted on here about fence toppers that stop cats climbing out of your garden. As for understanding cats, I understand enough. What I don't understand is some owners willingness to let their cats into other peoples property. Boundaries are in place to stop unwanted people and animals getting into their property. Again, if i let my dogs into others gardens or if kids keep coming into your garden youd shout the house down. Why are cats exempt from this rule? I accept wildlife, birds, mice, foxes etc in my garden bedcause they dont belong to anyone and are wild and random. I don't accept other peoples pets, again, regardless of species. It just so happens that my garden is so secure only cats and birds could get in. And obviously mice before someone points out that obvious little nugget


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    #139
    20goto10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭20goto10


    Cats aren't exempt they simply don't understand and it's impossible to impose boundries on them. A fence is a good idea if u have a big garden, otherwise it's cruel. The suggestions simply don't work and your aggressive attitude towards cats doesn't do you any favours. You're coming across a bit like a dog barking. People don't care why it's barking they just want it to shut up.

    It is the very nature of a cat to explore, claim territory and protect that territory. To take that away is to stop a cat being a cat and that's simply cruelty. It'll never be law because there's already laws to prevent cruelty to animals which protects them.


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    #140
    TooManyDogs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭TooManyDogs


    20goto10 wrote: »
    You just don't understand cats. How does the owner stop the cat.

    Are you kidding? Just don't let the cat off your property!!!! Simple


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    #141
    The Sweeper
    Registered Users Posts: 10,658 ✭✭✭✭The Sweeper


    In response to an earlier query; why bother licensing cats?

    If you licence cats, it gives the irritated neighbour some power. They can trap your cat and turn it over to the ranger. The cat will be returned to you if it's microchipped. Then you'll be fined for allowing your animal to wander.

    No matter who you are, and no matter where you live, or what your circumstances are, there really is no excuse for allowing your cat to wander. It is absolutely not to the benefit of the cat - that's proven statistically, in the shortened lifespan of wandering cats and in the spread of feline AIDS and feline leukaemia.

    This is not an argument about cats being 'cooped up'. You may feel you need to allow your cat access to outdoors, but you do not need to allow it access to your neighbour's yard or to the street in front of your house, especially not if you're in a residential area.

    And lets be honest - if they do introduce a cat licence, well some cat owners will avoid paying it the same way some dog owners avoid paying a dog licence. Where it'll be effective is in the cat owner being fined if their cat is being a nuisance. That'll make the neighbour feel better and may encourage the cat owner to prevent their cat from roaming.

    There is an overwhelming message on this thread and it's one that has far deeper implications for cats - nuisance cats make people - even animal lovers, strongly dislike cats. So they rant about them.

    That ranting is perpetuated throughout the media, in family homes (of non cat owners of course), among teenaged boys (often when experimenting with projectile weapons for the first time - I've seen lads who'd rather try their home-made sling shot out on a cat than a bird). Add to this the following sentiments:
    • Cats are evil
    • Humans are just cat slaves
    • Cats are not affectionate
    • Cats cannot be trained
    • Cats are nasty, sneaky little bastards
    • Cats are vermin
    • Cats are pests
    • Cats think you're there to serve them

    ...and all the rest of the claptrap spouted about cats, and you get the following:
    • Hundreds of thousands of cats are put to sleep every year in western pounds and animal shelters, but there is no actual available statistic, because pounds don't count other than to say 'more than dogs'.
    • Cruelty to cats is common and goes commonly unreported - far more than cruelty to dogs. I don't have a statistic for this, I just have what I've seen myself and what I've been told by people on the front line of animal cruelty cases.
    • Again, anecdotal, but more motorists will claim to be willing to stop if they hit a dog with their than if they hit a cat.
    • The guidelines for what is acceptable treatment of a cat differ greatly to what is acceptable treatment of a dog. Lack of regular feeding, veterinary treatment and containment is regularly excused in the case of a cat on the basis that "it's a cat", as though somehow this absolves the owner of their duty of care to the animal, especially compared to how they would be expected to treat their dog.

    If you do some work in cat rescue, one of the most frustrating things you come up against is the simple disregard for cats - especially when it comes to roaming cats having their kittens on other people's property and the buck-passing that happens when that takes place. When pushed to justify their actions against cats, people will commonly revert to the menace/nuisance/vermin argument, or, more simply, "it's just a cat".

    Part of my reason for strongly supporting containment of cats is to create more empathy for the cat in society. I want people to say 'Aw, the poor cat' the same way they'd say 'aw, the poor dog'. When a cat turns up on someone's doorstep at 11pm, cold and hungry and skinny, I want the person to be able to say 'Wow, a stray animal in trouble, I'll take it in and put it in the bathroom overnight and call the ranger in the morning', not 'I'm going to ignore that animal because I have no idea whether or not it belongs to someone in the area.'

    Cats are an extremely rewarding pet with a maximum lifespan far in excess of even small dogs. I hope to see their value realised, and I believe that if people take more responsibility for their pet cats, the general societal resentment of roaming cats in urban areas will dissipate, to be replaced by regard and concern for their welfare.


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    #142
    20goto10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭20goto10


    TooManyDogs wrote: »
    Are you kidding? Just don't let the cat off your property!!!! Simple
    you wouldn't do that to a dog.


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    #143
    TooManyDogs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭TooManyDogs


    20goto10 wrote: »
    you wouldn't do that to a dog.

    My dogs don't leave my property without being on a lead. So yeah, I would do that to a dog. No pet should be allowed roam, regardless of species.


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    #144
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    20goto10 wrote: »
    Cats aren't exempt they simply don't understand and it's impossible to impose boundries on them. A fence is a good idea if u have a big garden, otherwise it's cruel.
    Well if you don't have a big enough garden - you shouldn't have a cat. Simples.

    The responsibility is on you, the owner. To ignore this is ignorant. To avoid it is irresponsible. Unfortunately, currently, if you choose to be ignorant and irresponsible, legally there is nothing your neighbors & fellow citizens can do about it. Hopefully this will change; hopefully, as a society we will move to prevent any ignorant & irresponsible person from owning an animal as clearly it's not in the animals best interests.


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    #145
    lrushe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭lrushe


    adser53 wrote: »
    Sorry I'll stop you there. My dogs do bark at the odd bird that lands in the garden or occasionally if STRANGERS go near my back gate or near the neighbours house. They're environmental variables, random occurences or whatever you want to call it and they are very infrequent. A group of pest-cats coming into my garden annoying them daily from safe vantage points is nothing but a nuisance! Thats a HUUUUGE difference to what you're talking about and tbh I find it silly to compare the 2. I wouldnt mind if the cats were walking by minding their own business but they arent.

    Nothing silly about it, its simple dog ownership. The kids next door annoyed the heck out of my dogs, screeching, jumping on a trampoline, throwing balls over the wall etc. I couldn't control what was annoying my dogs so I controlled my dogs, they are now trained to go and lie down in their kennel when the kids are out or worse comes to the worse I bring them inside. Problem solved!!!


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    #146
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Bye the bye - kudos to you The Sweeper. I only hope all my future neighbors will be as responsible & considerate as you.

    It's obvious you have a deep love for your animals!


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    #147
    lrushe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭lrushe


    Zulu wrote: »
    Well if you don't have a big enough garden - you shouldn't have a cat. Simples..

    We'll just put down all the cats owned by people with small gardens so, problem solved indeed :rolleyes:


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    #148
    20goto10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭20goto10


    I can only speak for myself but my cat is better of dead than being confined to indoors. But I'd more than likely get the chip removed and let her have a chance going wild. You'll have a massive increase in abandoned cats if such a law existed. You'd also have a massive decrease in cat owners, resulting in an increase in wild and feral cats and an increase in your poo problem.


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    #149
    adser53
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    The Sweeper wrote: »
    In response to an earlier query; why bother licensing cats?

    If you licence cats, it gives the irritated neighbour some power. They can trap your cat and turn it over to the ranger. The cat will be returned to you if it's microchipped. Then you'll be fined for allowing your animal to wander.

    No matter who you are, and no matter where you live, or what your circumstances are, there really is no excuse for allowing your cat to wander. It is absolutely not to the benefit of the cat - that's proven statistically, in the shortened lifespan of wandering cats and in the spread of feline AIDS and feline leukaemia.

    This is not an argument about cats being 'cooped up'. You may feel you need to allow your cat access to outdoors, but you do not need to allow it access to your neighbour's yard or to the street in front of your house, especially not if you're in a residential area.

    And lets be honest - if they do introduce a cat licence, well some cat owners will avoid paying it the same way some dog owners avoid paying a dog licence. Where it'll be effective is in the cat owner being fined if their cat is being a nuisance. That'll make the neighbour feel better and may encourage the cat owner to prevent their cat from roaming.

    There is an overwhelming message on this thread and it's one that has far deeper implications for cats - nuisance cats make people - even animal lovers, strongly dislike cats. So they rant about them.

    That ranting is perpetuated throughout the media, in family homes (of non cat owners of course), among teenaged boys (often when experimenting with projectile weapons for the first time - I've seen lads who'd rather try their home-made sling shot out on a cat than a bird). Add to this the following sentiments:
    • Cats are evil
    • Humans are just cat slaves
    • Cats are not affectionate
    • Cats cannot be trained
    • Cats are nasty, sneaky little bastards
    • Cats are vermin
    • Cats are pests
    • Cats think you're there to serve them

    ...and all the rest of the claptrap spouted about cats, and you get the following:
    • Hundreds of thousands of cats are put to sleep every year in western pounds and animal shelters, but there is no actual available statistic, because pounds don't count other than to say 'more than dogs'.
    • Cruelty to cats is common and goes commonly unreported - far more than cruelty to dogs. I don't have a statistic for this, I just have what I've seen myself and what I've been told by people on the front line of animal cruelty cases.
    • Again, anecdotal, but more motorists will claim to be willing to stop if they hit a dog with their than if they hit a cat.
    • The guidelines for what is acceptable treatment of a cat differ greatly to what is acceptable treatment of a dog. Lack of regular feeding, veterinary treatment and containment is regularly excused in the case of a cat on the basis that "it's a cat", as though somehow this absolves the owner of their duty of care to the animal, especially compared to how they would be expected to treat their dog.

    If you do some work in cat rescue, one of the most frustrating things you come up against is the simple disregard for cats - especially when it comes to roaming cats having their kittens on other people's property and the buck-passing that happens when that takes place. When pushed to justify their actions against cats, people will commonly revert to the menace/nuisance/vermin argument, or, more simply, "it's just a cat".

    Part of my reason for strongly supporting containment of cats is to create more empathy for the cat in society. I want people to say 'Aw, the poor cat' the same way they'd say 'aw, the poor dog'. When a cat turns up on someone's doorstep at 11pm, cold and hungry and skinny, I want the person to be able to say 'Wow, a stray animal in trouble, I'll take it in and put it in the bathroom overnight and call the ranger in the morning', not 'I'm going to ignore that animal because I have no idea whether or not it belongs to someone in the area.'

    Cats are an extremely rewarding pet with a maximum lifespan far in excess of even small dogs. I hope to see their value realised, and I believe that if people take more responsibility for their pet cats, the general societal resentment of roaming cats in urban areas will dissipate, to be replaced by regard and concern for their welfare.

    This is BY FAR the best post on this entire thread. Brilliantly worded and makes perfect sense.
    20goto10 wrote: »
    Cats aren't exempt they simply don't understand and it's impossible to impose boundries on them. A fence is a good idea if u have a big garden, otherwise it's cruel. The suggestions simply don't work and your aggressive attitude towards cats doesn't do you any favours. You're coming across a bit like a dog barking. People don't care why it's barking they just want it to shut up.

    It is the very nature of a cat to explore, claim territory and protect that territory. To take that away is to stop a cat being a cat and that's simply cruelty. It'll never be law because there's already laws to prevent cruelty to animals which protects them.

    It's not aggression, it's frustration and exasperation at the attitude your showing. I actually like house cats but I'm talking to the wall here because you can't understand the simple point of my arguement that cats should not be let roam. By your reasoning house cat owners are cruel and cats own everything in their "territory" even if that's someone elses property. You keep doing whatever you want with your cats, as your legally allowed to. I'd like to think that if one of your neighbours complained to you about your cat in their garden that you'd take some sort of action but based on your attitude, you'll probably just tell them to get stuffed because after all, it's a cat
    lrushe wrote: »
    Nothing silly about it, its simple dog ownership. The kids next door annoyed the heck out of my dogs, screeching, jumping on a trampoline, throwing balls over the wall etc. I couldn't control what was annoying my dogs so I controlled my dogs, they are now trained to go and lie down in their kennel when the kids are out or worse comes to the worse I bring them inside. Problem solved!!!

    Kids playing in their own adjacent garden is one thing. Would you be the same if the kids came into your garden and sat annoying your dogs? I reckon you'd kick them out and have a chat with their parents tbh..


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    #150
    TooManyDogs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭TooManyDogs


    20goto10 wrote: »
    I can only speak for myself but my cat is better of dead than being confined to indoors.

    Funny, people would have said that about confining dogs 50 years ago, but it turns out dogs are fine with it, owners just have to adapt and make their property an environment suitable for a cat.


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    #151
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Tomorrow Ill post up a picture of my neighbour walking her cat on a lead in the garden. Might sound crazy to many people on this board but it is quite a common site on the continent. The reason being that there are tight restrictions on both cats and dogs.


This discussion has been closed.
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