Are you glad Greece is in a worse state than Ireland?

Overheal · 06-05-2010 09:03PM

Kivaro wrote: »

In the wealthy northern suburbs of Athens, just 324 residents checked the box on their tax returns admitting that they owned swimming pools.

So tax investigators studied satellite photos of the area -- a sprawling collection of expensive villas tucked behind tall gates -- and came back with a decidedly different number: 16,974 pools.

Various studies, including one by the Federation of Greek Industries last year, have estimated that the government may be losing as much as $30 billion a year to tax evasion -- a figure that would have gone a long way to solving its debt problems.

When tax authorities recently surveyed the returns of 150 doctors with offices in the trendy Athens neighborhood of Kolonaki, where Prada and Chanel stores can be found, more than half had claimed an income of less than $40,000. Thirty-four of them claimed less than $13,300, a figure that exempted them from paying any taxes at all.

More at http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/02/world/europe/02evasion.html

Let them sink, says I.
They should not be rewarded for their systemic corruption, irrespective of the consequences.

A Pool Tax is ridiculous anyway.

Abrasax · 06-05-2010 09:05PM

Do you mean like this, OP?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIrhVo1WA78

ChocolateSauce · 06-05-2010 09:07PM

No, for the simple reason that we'd be cheaper to bail out. Plus it might be enough to unseat FF if we were worse off.

bonerm · 06-05-2010 09:08PM

Overheal wrote: »

A Pool Tax is ridiculous anyway.

Agreed. It even lead to the downfall of the Thatcher government in the late 80's.

Overheal · 06-05-2010 09:10PM

bonerm wrote: »

Agreed. It even lead to the downfall of the Thatcher government in the late 80's.

?

Anyway my rudimentary understanding is a property taxed based on value is less likely to be frauded, as generally you want your home to have a high equity value, etc.

Wibbs · 06-05-2010 09:19PM

Overheal wrote: »

A Pool Tax is ridiculous anyway.

Not at all when you consider its in a country with serious water supply issues. How many gallons of water does a swimming pool consume and how much of that evaporates into the air in the 38 degree heat? We're bringing in water charges that will doubtless rise and rise with the years in a country that's essentially a great big sponge. I think pool taxes in Greece are very logical.

Overheal · 06-05-2010 09:23PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Not at all when you consider its in a country with serious water supply issues. How many gallons of water does a swimming pool consume and how much of that evaporates into the air in the 38 degree heat? We're bringing in water charges that will doubtless rise and rise with the years in a country that's essentially a great big sponge. I think pool taxes in Greece are very logical.

Thats what a water tax is for, in fairness. Its easy to differentiate when one home is using 5000 litres a month, and one is using 25,000 litres a month; that one of them is being a dick, and you can properly introduce a scaling tax on overuse.

thetonynator · 06-05-2010 09:39PM

There are positives and negatives to this:

Negatives: - We have to loan them a lot of money which we might not get back if they default.
-It might cause the credit agencies to downgrade us as we are a risky eurozone country.
- We are now paying more interest on our borrowing because of Greek instability.
-People have died in the riots because of this.

Positives: -If they do pay back the money we loaned them, we'll make a profit.
- The euro devaluing due to this has made our exports more valuble.
-The focus has come off us slightly
And most importantly . . .

WE HAVE SOMEONE TO BELITTLE BECAUSE THEY'RE WORSE THAN US!!!

Only joking!!!

OPENROAD · 06-05-2010 09:42PM

I know this is After Hours, but people do realise what is happening in Greece will have a negative impact on ourselves? i.e. Money markets ect...

Run_to_da_hills · 06-05-2010 09:44PM

orourkeda wrote: »

Who really cares if Greece is in a worse state than Ireland?

I just hope they will be as quick to give us €1.3 Billion when our economy goes tits up completely.

They took that €1.3 Billion from us that was earmarked for the Dublin Metro. :mad:

OPENROAD · 06-05-2010 09:47PM

PK2008 wrote: »

Wait, Britain is nose diving!!??!!!

Run on the bank!!!!

UK has control over its own Monetary policy and as a large economy will be ok although they do need to tackle there huge deficit over the next few years.

Kaizer Sosa · 06-05-2010 11:55PM

OPENROAD wrote: »

Seriously, why? is this just an After Hours comment from yourself?

You do realise the importance of the UK to the Irish economy

Read her following post.

wolfpawnat · 06-05-2010 11:58PM

no, I am not happy.

Why?

Because we have to give them money to bail them out on top of our own ****e here and the value of the euro has plummetted as a result

OPENROAD · 07-05-2010 12:10AM

Kaizer Sosa wrote: »

Read her following post.

Silly me not reading all the posts

Tks for pointing out.

Sorry Dudess, from reading your posts in general, knew you wouldn't think like that, sorry

Dudess · 07-05-2010 12:16AM

'Tis not the first irony fail for me.

I'm a card-carrying west Brit though... :pac:

OPENROAD · 07-05-2010 12:17AM

Dudess wrote: »

'Tis not the first irony fail for me.

I'm a card-carrying west Brit though... :pac:

limklad · 07-05-2010 12:23AM

Cannon Gigantic Sink wrote: »

It takes the spot light off us kinda, but wishing any european country to be worse off than us is pretty silly, it effects us too.

Yes it does effects us too since we have to help bail out the Greeks in order to help the euro. We have to borrow more money to bail out the Greeks and pay high interest on top of that. We may never get out money back from them since the people are never going to do their bit to get their country back in order.

As bad as we think our banks are, we know we can get something back from the banks eventually with their assets as they are under Irish jurisdiction, and we can screw the politicians in upcoming elections, if they don't get their act together with their dealing with the banks.
Greece is another country and we are far low in the pecking order to get our money back from Greece if they default in their loans, especially with heavy Weighs such as Germany and France in line.

OPENROAD · 07-05-2010 12:29AM

limklad wrote: »

Yes it does effects us too since we have to help bail out the Greeks in order to help the euro. We have to borrow more money to bail out the Greeks and pay high interest on top of that. We may never get out money back from them since the people are never going to do their bit to get their country back in order.

As bad as we think our banks are, we know we can get something back from the banks eventually with their assets as they are under Irish jurisdiction, and we can screw the politicians in upcoming elections, if they don't get their act together with their dealing with the banks.
Greece is another country and we are far low in the pecking order to get our money back from Greece if they default in their loans, especially with heavy Weighs such as Germany and France in line.

Leave all that out it, the amount we are lending is small and is not really important, it is still bad news for us, we have only started to deal with our deficit, a long way to go in reagards this, people seem to have forgotten that,and think we are over our problems now, far from it, anyway the Greek situation has certainly spooked the money markets, yes we have been able to borrow money at a reasonable rate comaped to Greece, it is still very high though and the Greek situation will certainly put us under closer scrutiny.

Also look at impact on the Equity markets and the Euro, both have a negative impact on us, for the life of me, I really can't see how anyone could be glad at the current situation.

limklad · 07-05-2010 12:44AM

bonerm wrote: »

Agreed. It even lead to the downfall of the Thatcher government in the late 80's.

It was not a pool TAX that led to Thatcher government downfall. It was Poll TAX (Flat-rate tax per adult without reference to income or property) or also know as "Community Charge" and had be paid in addition to their normal Taxes. It was then replaced with property TAX.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_Tax_Riots

limklad · 07-05-2010 12:52AM

OPENROAD wrote: »

Leave all that out it, the amount we are lending is small and is not really important, it is still bad news for us, we have only started to deal with our deficit, a long way to go in reagards this, people seem to have forgotten that,and think we are over our problems now, far from it, anyway the Greek situation has certainly spooked the money markets, yes we have been able to borrow money at a reasonable rate comaped to Greece, it is still very high though and the Greek situation will certainly put us under closer scrutiny.

Also look at impact on the Equity markets and the Euro, both have a negative impact on us, for the life of me, I really can't see how anyone could be glad at the current situation.

I would not consider €1.3 billion Euros as small. We could use that to repair our roads, more bus services, add more beds in our hospitals etc.

TV3 News wrote:

http://www.tv3.ie/article.php?article_id=36910&locID=1.2.&pagename=news

Muted reaction to Greece bail-out

03.05.10

European share and bond markets have given a muted reaction to the Greek rescue package.

The bailout agreed by the EU and IMF sees €110 billion loaned to Greece over three years.

Ireland's contribution is €1.3bn - three times more what the Government had previously planned.

Greece in return will have to make severe budget cuts.

http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/ireland/government-refuses-to-debate-irelands-13bn-bailout-for-greece-456612.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0504/breaking14.html

OPENROAD · 07-05-2010 01:01AM

limklad wrote: »

I would not consider €1.3 billion Euros as small. We could use that to repair our roads, more bus services, add more beds in our hospitals etc.

Oh I do agree, its over three years by the way, and I think we are foregoing the money per year from the EU, point is that it is not just this that impacts on us, it is the overall impact, that it has on world makets and how this impacts on us negatively

me-skywalker · 07-05-2010 04:32AM

Well well dont worry now it'll be great when you go over for a trip they'll rip into you for being a lazy Irish couch capitalist!

bonerm · 07-05-2010 06:50AM

limklad wrote: »

It was not a pool TAX that led to Thatcher government downfall. It was Poll TAX (Flat-rate tax per adult without reference to income or property) or also know as "Community Charge" and had be paid in addition to their normal Taxes. It was then replaced with property TAX.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_Tax_Riots

What? You mean left-wing UK citizens didn't taking to the streets in their thousands because they felt taxes on their private swimming pools were unfair? :eek:

/shocked

old_aussie · 07-05-2010 07:51AM

I'm glad it's Greece and not Ireland in this situation.

If things get worse for Ireland, hopefully Ireland will take the "she'll be right mate" attitude and not erupt into mass strikes and violence as Greece has done.

The Greeks will do irrepairable damage to themselves wiyh these strikes and deadly violence.

It's easy to become a third world country.

No one will want to trade with them due to their inability to dig deep and get on with improving their situation.

Hopefully Ireland will accept that things need to change in a big way to open the road to recovery.

Mister men · 07-05-2010 07:56AM

Anything that helps us in the direction of ending the European super state project is very welcome news indeed.

Biggins · 07-05-2010 08:26AM

Haven't some here heard of the "Domino effect" for fecks sake?
Countries, economies and social relationships are so integrated and evolve around inter-dependency that what effects one now has eventually, an over all effect to all.
Thats is why there is a sudden rush to help Greece out.

Its unfortunate that Greece is in this situation but by god, it could easily be us next.

Mr Benevolent · 07-05-2010 09:27AM

What are the chances of it being us next?

inforfun · 07-05-2010 09:36AM

I suppose you are better off if you have no legs and miss one arm than someone who is missing both legs and both arms.
But would you be glad?

Wibbs · 07-05-2010 11:15AM

Confab wrote: »

What are the chances of it being us next?

IMHO a lot lower than say a year ago. we're balancing the books. We dont have the massive tax evasion of the greeks, nor the massive public expenditure by comparison. While FF may have screwed up in the past and they werent alone in fcuking up either, this has been handled relatively well.

Min · 07-05-2010 11:34AM

The Irish government have done well to get us out of the position we were in which was the worst in Europe, now thanks to the hard measures taken we have moved ahead of nations who have not taken the measures needed, Greece now taking the hard measures needed, Spain and Portugal have to be next and Italy.

If the debt crisis spreads then no country is safe, Ireland wouldn't be but we have cash reserves to stave off the need to borrow for a year, this mess will grow in my opinion.

Are you glad Greece is in a worse state than Ireland?

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