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Stickler for rules - less intelligent ?

2

Comments

  • #32
    SugarHigh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,265 ✭✭✭SugarHigh


    pickarooney wrote: »
    I kind of agree with the OP, particularly with regards to people who stubbornly go against what would normally be considered common sense, in order to adhere stictly to the rules.

    I've worked with a number of people like that and, to be honest, they seem a bit lacking.
    Sometimes you need rules to control common sense because quite often common sense is in fact wrong.


  • #33
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,496 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    SugarHigh wrote: »
    But that is not what the op said.:confused:

    I could question the rules and then come to the conclusion that it makes the most sense to follow them.

    The OP explicitly referred to people who see the world in black and white, right and wrong and thus wouldn't question the rules.


  • #34
    NothingMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,178 ✭✭✭✭NothingMan


    Des Carter wrote: »
    I think the person who doesnt break the rules but at the same time doesnt follow blindly are the most intelligent. You know the kind that blend in with the crowd not drawing attention to themselves and is willing to think for themselvs but doesnt let anyone know it unless they have to.

    *Listens quietly to discussion while peaking in from the bushes*


  • #35
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    SugarHigh wrote: »
    I could question the rules and then come to the conclusion that it makes the most sense to follow them.

    No you couldn't do that. Everyone knows your just a goody two shoes who follows rules for no good reason. ;)


  • #36
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    pickarooney wrote: »
    The OP explicitly referred to people who see the world in black and white, right and wrong and thus wouldn't question the rules.

    Then the question becomes how the OP knows who has questioned the rules and who hasn't.

    Person A questions a rule, decides it's for the best and follows it.... Person B questions the rule, decides it's not and doesn't follow it. It's fairly obvious that Person B questioned the rule, not so obvious that Person A put just the same amount of intelligence and thought into it.

    It's not like everyone announces to the world everytime they think about something..

    The sign says Queue here! "OK everybody I am internally questioning this rule just so you don't question my intelligence!"


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  • #37
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,496 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    You know a stickler by the way they apply the rules when it would be better to bend them a little. A stickler by nature is not given to discourse or reflection.


  • #38
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,433 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    Switzerland. Far more successful, law abiding and corruption-free and they all obey the rules. OP's question is too simplistic. Only in Ireland would that question be mooted.


  • #39
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    I have always found that people who are less likely to break the rules and see things as black or white / right or wrong tend to be less intelligent than those who are less rigid in their thinking.

    Does anyone else agree ?

    By the way I am obviously not talking about criminals or scummers who ignore the law and do as they please, I am talking about the goody two shoes, teachers pet types

    People in lower classes are less educated.
    People in lower classes are more likely to break the law.
    Therefore people who are of less intelligence are more than likely to break the rules.

    People who grow up in well structured families and strick upbringings where they dont break the rules, tend to be more focused, do better in education and have more sucessful lives.

    People who dont have strict upbrinings and who dont have strick black and white rules to follow get distracted and becomes less successful in education and life.


    This statement makes no sense, its way too vague. Intelligence is measured in many different aspects from a person's reasoning ability to ability to plan to a person's abilty to communicate.

    For example compare a successful Univerisity Professor who gets a 10 out of 10 in reasoning but gets 0 out of 10 in communication to a sucessfull business man who may get 5 out of 10 in reasoning but gets 5 out of 10 in communication, whos more intellegent?

    Since planning is considered an aspect of intelligence, which direct relates to be organised and following the rules and goals set out, therefore people who can plan and follow simple rules are considered intellegent along with people who are extremely creative.

    Its all relative.

    Edison: "Genius: one percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration"


  • #40
    thetonynator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭thetonynator


    Hazys wrote: »
    People in lower classes are less educated.
    People in lower classes are more likely to break the law.
    Therefore people who are of less intelligence are more than likely to break the rules.

    People who grow up in well structured families and strick upbringings where they dont break the rules, tend to be more focused, do better in education and have more sucessful lives.

    People who dont have strict upbrinings and who dont have strick black and white rules to follow get distracted and becomes less successful in education and life.


    Was said yesterday, I think it applies today here too, There are no classes in Ireland, and usually the only ones who think there are are from foxrock or someplace . . .


  • #41
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,496 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Confab wrote: »
    Switzerland. Far more successful, law abiding and corruption-free and they all obey the rules. OP's question is too simplistic. Only in Ireland would that question be mooted.

    Proof, if it were needed that rule-sticklers a soulless, humourless bunch.


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  • #42
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,339 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    pickarooney wrote: »
    Proof, if it were needed that rule-sticklers a soulless, humourless bunch.

    But less intelligent?


  • #43
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,339 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Hazys wrote: »
    People in lower classes are less educated.
    People in lower classes are more likely to break the law.
    Therefore people who are of less intelligence are more than likely to break the rules.

    Are you confusing knowledge with intelligence?


  • #44
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Are you confusing knowledge with intelligence?

    No


    By being educated obviously you acquire knowledge but the fact that you are educated shows you have an aptitude for learning and reasoning.


  • #45
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,339 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Hazys wrote: »
    No
    By being educated obviously you acquire knowledge but the fact that you are educated shows you have an aptitude for learning and reasoning.

    How does not being educated show that you don't have an aptitude for learning and reasoning?


  • #46
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    thetonynator wrote: »
    Was said yesterday, I think it applies today here too, There are no classes in Ireland, and usually the only ones who think there are are from foxrock or someplace . . .

    I never mentioned Ireland.

    Its a common fact all through history that:
    • People in lower classes are less educated
    • People in lower classes are more likely to break the law
    Saying a place has different classes doesnt make you elitest, it makes you realistic. Ireland may not have clear classes like in larger countires because the vast majority of people are classified in the middle class and small populations in lower and higher classes, but people can be still classifed in a class.


  • #47
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    How does not being educated show that you don't have an aptitude for learning and reasoning?

    I'm taking in the majority of cases, obviously there are highly intelligent people who prefer to become builders, plumbers, althletes etc, but in the vast majority of cases the people who go onto 3rd level education are more likely to have a higher aptitude for learning and reasoning than somebody who doesnt get to chance because their grades are not good enough.


  • #48
    swe_fi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭swe_fi


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    I have always found that people who are less likely to break the rules and see things as black or white / right or wrong tend to be less intelligent than those who are less rigid in their thinking.

    Does anyone else agree ?

    By the way I am obviously not talking about criminals or scummers who ignore the law and do as they please, I am talking about the goody two shoes, teachers pet types

    I have always found that too + they annoy the shti out of me. What annoys me even more is that it does not annoy more people. I nearly prefer criminals. At least they often make things interesting.


  • #49
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    At the same time, there seems to be too much admiration for the 'rogue' in this country. Look at some of the politicians who have been elected time and time again!


  • #50
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,339 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Hazys wrote: »
    I'm taking in the majority of cases, obviously there are highly intelligent people who prefer to become builders, plumbers, althletes etc, but in the vast majority of cases the people who go onto 3rd level education are more likely to have a higher aptitude for learning and reasoning than somebody who doesnt get to chance because their grades are not good enough.

    Access to third level education has changed quite a bit in the last few decades. Go back a bit farther and you'll find that women were excluded from formal education completely. Does this mean they were less intelligent? When I left school, people from my background simply couldn't afford third level education.

    Third level is mostly about access and perseverance, not intelligence.


  • #51
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Access to third level education has changed quite a bit in the last few decades. Go back a bit farther and you'll find that women were excluded from formal education completely. Does this mean they were less intelligent? When I left school, people from my background simply couldn't afford third level education.

    Third level is mostly about access and perseverance, not intelligence.

    Yes, access is important to getting education but im trying to break the argument down to its simplest terms and remove as many external factors as i can. Fortunately when i went to college it was free for all (maybe still not fully equal access), so its my perspective is talking about people of my generation 20 somethings.

    Being educated shows you have a higher aptitude for learning and reasoning than a person who isnt as educated if that person has the same level of access to education (obvious statement of the year). I think we are going off topic now anyway.


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  • #52
    nehpets10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 80 ✭✭nehpets10


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    I have always found that people who are less likely to break the rules and see things as black or white / right or wrong tend to be less intelligent than those who are less rigid in their thinking.

    Does anyone else agree ?

    By the way I am obviously not talking about criminals or scummers who ignore the law and do as they please, I am talking about the goody two shoes, teachers pet types

    Actually I find it to be the opposite. People in trouble with the law, children getting in trouble in school.. generally those are all thick fcukers.

    My proof > your proof.

    I like rules, because I like logic. Rules that don't make sense not counted.


  • #53
    Topper Harley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭Topper Harley


    pickarooney wrote: »
    I kind of agree with the OP, particularly with regards to people who stubbornly go against what would normally be considered common sense, in order to adhere stictly to the rules.

    I've worked with a number of people like that and, to be honest, they seem a bit lacking.

    In one of Jeremy Clarkson's books he describes how while they were filming for Top Gear in the States, a cop came over to check their filming permit and then told them that they had to move 100 yards up the road, to which Jeremy Clarkson asked him to use common sense since it really didn't make a difference and they were already set up. The cop replied "you don't need common sense when you've got laws."

    I can see where the OP is coming from but I don't entirely agree, as many people have pointed out, it's not that straight forward.

    SugarHigh wrote: »
    Sometimes you need rules to control common sense because quite often common sense is in fact wrong.

    Is that a joke that I didn't get or what exactly does it mean? When is common sense wrong?


  • #54
    El Siglo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,803 ✭✭✭El Siglo


    Retarded thread.


  • #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    My way of looking at it is that if someone makes the conscious decision to be straight as an arrow because that is what's best for them, then that's the same intelligence as the person who analyses the situation and makes his own choices and does not follow blindly.
    The person who does what he is told, takes their morals from someone else and can't get past the word of the law to use common sense generally has less smarts about them.


  • #56
    Davidius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,893 ✭✭✭Davidius


    SugarHigh wrote: »
    Sometimes you need rules to control common sense because quite often common sense is in fact wrong.
    Curse you Quantum Mechanics!


  • #57
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    I can think of one case where I think this applied. I was explaining to someone how if I'm driving in the middle of the night on an empty road and I come to a junction with a red light where I can clearly see hundreds of metres in all directions I sometimes just look around carefully and move on. He looked at me like I was insane and started talking about the tiny minute possibilty that there might be a cyclist or something that I hadn't seen and how that should be all the reason I need not to do it.

    I explained that there could be such a cyclist at any junction at any time so if his logic was valid no one should ever get in a car and that if anything it was far less likely to happen then than at any other time because of being more careful than usual and because of there clearly being no traffic. I also asked about junctions that currently don't have lights and asked if it would suddenly become impossible to navigate them safely if lights were put in. I also mentioned countries where most lights go to flashing orange after a certain time because the authorities recognise the ridiculousness of sitting at a red light with no other cars for 5 miles but my appeals fell on deaf ears with exclamations of "you just don't do it!".

    It doesn't matter that the rule is stupid, you just don't do it because a stupid machine on a pole that doesn't know there are no other cars around says you shouldn't.


  • #58
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Topper Harley wrote: »
    Is that a joke that I didn't get or what exactly does it mean? When is common sense wrong?

    One example where it's often wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_problem


  • #59
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,496 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    But less intelligent?

    Highly likely. There's a strong correlation.


  • #60
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    I find that certain groups feel they must stick within the rules as they fear losing their jobs quicker than others if they don't. Perhaps.


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  • #61
    Abrasax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 977 ✭✭✭Abrasax


    WindSock wrote: »
    I find that certain groups feel they must stick within the rules as they fear losing their jobs quicker than others if they don't. Perhaps.

    Reminds me of the Snafu-principle.


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