So you bought a nice apartment in Dublin for a lot of money...

DazMarz · 03-05-2010 05:06PM

nipplenuts wrote: »

Hang on a sec. The real story here is why the feck are they building more homes when the country is awash in ones that'll never see full occupancy?

I think the nail has been hit firmly on the head...

How many thousands of homes are out there, newly built etc. and are lying empty. Surely t'fúck the council/HSE/whoever could use these for the social housing initiatives rather than building new ones?!?!

Biggins · 03-05-2010 05:10PM

melekalikimaka wrote: »

...my issue isnt with the service, its the lack of consideration for the residents.

As I hinted at in the latter part of post 58, "consideration" for such residents as far as I know is taken into account.
Those that award the housing to those that mostly deserve it, do look at the elements/characteristics of those being placed.
If they didn't, they know they would be just creating more work for themselves eventually after enough trouble breaks out.

havana · 03-05-2010 05:12PM

Ah yes but maybe this way, if you put them all together they won't gave to mix too much with the normal folk. Couldn't put them in the same actual building/ estate as the higher classes. Some, by the way, who are moaning about their estates being empty.

danbohan · 03-05-2010 05:14PM

havana wrote: »

no single person who 'sits' on the dole is going to be given priority if the are are on a housing list. And If someone qualifies for social housing then why should I begrudge them that? Should I resent my neighbours who happened to buy after the prices dropped? Sure, won't deny I wish my mortgage was as small as theirs or that I could have got a bigger place for the price I paid. Or rather am I better off getting to know them and creating a sense of community rather than sitting at home depressing myself cos someone got something a little easier than me?

why should anybody qualify for social housing ? , what gives somebody the right to think other people should provide housing / food / education / etc etc for him/ her and their children ,whether that's in upmarket areas or not is irrelevant .
if you work for a living you live in your house , if you don't work then live in trailer park or tent or whatever ,of course provided by yourself

slimjimmc · 03-05-2010 05:16PM

nipplenuts wrote: »

Hang on a sec. The real story here is why the feck are they building more homes when the country is awash in ones that'll never see full occupancy?

Because the empty ones were built in some farmer's field in the ar$e end of nowhere 6-7km from the nearest village without providing public transport links, services, or social facilities.

havana · 03-05-2010 05:21PM

danbohan wrote: »

why should anybody qualify for social housing ? , what gives somebody the right to think other people should provide housing / food / education / etc etc for him/ her and their children ,whether that's in upmarket areas or not is irrelevant .
if you work for a living you live in your house , if you don't work then live in trailer park or tent or whatever ,of course provided by yourself

That's a whole different discussion fir a whole different thread. And one I'm not going to get dragged into here. This is not about whether people should get social housing it's about whether or not they shoul be 'allowed' live in the same area as me. Should the day arrive that I want to segregate myself then I'll buy myself a property in some soulless gated community somewhere.

ejmaztec · 03-05-2010 05:22PM

danbohan wrote: »

why should anybody qualify for social housing ? , what gives somebody the right to think other people should provide housing / food / education / etc etc for him/ her and their children ,whether that's in upmarket areas or not is irrelevant .
if you work for a living you live in your house , if you don't work then live in trailer park or tent or whatever ,of course provided by yourself

How's life back in the 19th century?

K-9 · 03-05-2010 05:32PM

darkman2 wrote: »

They are just being politically correct.

/thread.

Biggins · 03-05-2010 05:34PM

danbohan wrote: »

why should anybody qualify for social housing ? , what gives somebody the right to think other people should provide housing / food / education / etc etc for him/ her and their children ,whether that's in upmarket areas or not is irrelevant .
if you work for a living you live in your house , if you don't work then live in trailer park or tent or whatever ,of course provided by yourself

The short version answer to that is that we (well clearly some) have stepped up in social progress, awareness and consideration of others than from things that still to this day, still drag their knuckles along the ground.

Son Of A Vidic · 03-05-2010 05:40PM

Biggins wrote: »

.
As for "classes" WTF!!!
The only classes I know are the "employed" and the unfortunate "unemployed"
Any other "classes" can go shove their snobbery up their arse!

Well said Biggins, your post would be truly worthy of a a rant in the Ranting and Raving forum.

danbohan · 03-05-2010 05:50PM

Biggins wrote: »

The short version answer to that is that we (well clearly some) have stepped up in social progress, awareness and consideration of others than from things that still to this day, still drag their knuckles along the ground.

and the others have abused your wonderful kindness and generosity by demanding more and more freebies
my knuckles are fine thank you very much , and the only place i know of in animal kingdom that does social housing is perhaps the cuckoo .
now that might be very good comparison to the leaches on social welfare and affordable housing

havana · 03-05-2010 05:54PM

danbohan wrote: »

and the others have abused your wonderful kindness and generosity by demanding more and more freebies
my knuckles are fine thank you very much , and the only place i know of in animal kingdom that does social housing is perhaps the cuckoo .
now that might be very good comparison to the leaches on social welfare and affordable housing

I'm not going to get into the social welfare part of your comment cos I am so tired of that debate on here. But how on earth is someone who buys through affordabe housing a 'leech'?

Biggins · 03-05-2010 05:54PM

danbohan wrote: »

and the others have abused your wonderful kindness and generosity by demanding more and more freebies
my knuckles are fine thank you very much , and the only place i know of in animal kingdom that does social housing is perhaps the cuckoo .
now that might be very good comparison to the leaches on social welfare and affordable housing

Sad to say there is leeches everywhere?
Politicians, bankers, lawyers, drug barons, and on and on...
I can't remember the last time I saw any of them on a social housing list!

All aspects of society encompasses a minority that will abuse a system. Nature of the beast.
Those on a housing list though, I would absolutely NOT rush to judge them all to be automatically in a category as you only see them in!

PeakOutput · 03-05-2010 06:19PM

lads the op is clearly trolling alot of valid points have been brought up on both sides in this thread just not by him

no legitimately intelligent respect worthy human being has the opinions and expresses them the way that he is therefore he must be a troll its the simplest answer and therefore he dosnt warrant engagement

as for the general issue

i do believe that social welfare needs a drastic overhaul from top to bottom and i dont believe the state should be paying for two people with degrees to be back at college for the second time BUT if i was in the same position i would be doing the exact same thing

not everyone on social welfare or the housing list is a scumbag but there are other reasons why they shouldnt be on it than simply that

the model in germany seriously appeals to me

if anyone has the interest ill try and explain it but otherwise i wont bother

filthymcnasty · 03-05-2010 06:36PM

Biggins wrote: »

You know, not all families on a housing list are the scum of the Earth!
Talk about tarring all with one brush!
Sorry also to hear that you don't want to live beside an unemployed electrician/fitter/carpenter/whatever and his/her family that has lost their home due to the Celtic Tiger dying!
Must be a great place indeed where you live. I hope so. Everyone should be so lucky.

As for "classes" WTF!!!
The only classes I know are the "employed" and the unfortunate "unemployed"
Any other "classes" can go shove their snobbery up their arse!

Wake up- there is middle class and working class in ireland and every other country, always has and always will be. To say all employed people are the same class is unrealistic bertie ahern socialism i.e bull****.
Is a dentist in foxrock the same class as a shop assitant in neilstown? No disrespect to either area or career but their lifestyles would be hugely diifferent because of differing incomes.

A classless society does not exist. Its nothing to do with snobbery. In the darkest days of communist Russia -where everyone was meant to be equal- you had the Politburo living it up in their dachas with imported western goods and everyone else fighting over loaves of bread and Ladas.

Biggins · 03-05-2010 06:45PM

filthymcnasty wrote: »

Wake up- there is middle class and working class in Ireland and every other country, always has and always will be. To say all employed people are the same class is unrealistic Bertie Ahern socialism i.e bull****.
Is a dentist in Foxrock the same class as a shop assistant in Neilstown? No disrespect to either area or career but their lifestyles would be hugely different because of differing incomes.

A classless society does not exist. Its nothing to do with snobbery. In the darkest days of communist Russia -where everyone was meant to be equal- you had the Politburo living it up in their dachas with imported western goods and everyone else fighting over loaves of bread and Ladas.

I'll keep it simple.
I'm talking about "economic classes" alone as per the subject matter brought up by the OP.
Sorry you seem to have missed that point and veered off on a tangent about one supposedly denying altogether other areas of a community.

I refuse to degrade or denigrate because of economic class.
As for the snobbery class, well I spoke as to where I feel that can go.

filthymcnasty · 03-05-2010 06:59PM

Biggins wrote: »

I'll keep it simple.
I'm talking about "economic classes" alone as per the subject matter brought up by the OP.
Sorry you seem to have missed that point and veered off on a tangent about one supposedly denying altogether other areas of a community.

I refuse to degrade or denigrate because of economic class.
As for the snobbery class, well I spoke as to where I feel that can go.

biggins,
the nature of boards.ie is to veer off on a tangent haha!
i agree with your sentiments about snobbery but unfortunately it happens

Biggins · 03-05-2010 07:04PM

filthymcnasty wrote: »

biggins,
the nature of boards.ie is to veer off on a tangent haha!
i agree with your sentiments about snobbery but unfortunately it happens

No worries, if it didn't life would be very boring.

stepbar · 03-05-2010 07:22PM

In the current market, there should be no such thing as affordable housing. Affordable housing is the biggest joke going, much like most house prices truth be told.

Paddy Samurai · 03-05-2010 07:37PM

just I always thought that the whole 30% of every estate has to be for "social housing" ..................... I wonder if a new estate was built in Ballsbridge does this rule apply

Someone told me the rules were flexible on this one.Builders could donate money or land to the value to the local councils.This enabled them to keep control of their estates and keep the peasants out.

Einhard · 03-05-2010 07:37PM

I wholeheartedly agree with the OP. Herding whole groups of people into sink estates has worked wonders in the past, so why tinker with a winning formula? Especially as the Dundons and McCarthys down in Limerick, and their equivalents elsewhere, have been so good as to ensure that their criminality and fueding doesn't spill over beyond the boundaries of their respective estates. Afterall, what happens in the likes of Southill and Moyross never has a wider societal impact :rolleyes:

nachoman · 03-05-2010 07:47PM

Coming from a different perspective here, I live on a council Estate and just 15 mins walk from me on a private housing estate there are a number of Romanian families living in these houses. Now I could resent this but you know what, i'm glad for them, they'll be integrated into society and by doing so they'll have something positive to contribute to this country.

jackiebaron · 03-05-2010 07:52PM

TskTsk wrote: »

I know where you're coming from, but I don't think that the mixing of classes is the issue. Most people living in middle-to-upper class developments don't actually mix with their neighbours anyway.

My own experience of living in an apartment block or housing estate where some of the units were given over to social housing, or rented to social welfare recipients, was that they did not show the same level of respect to their neighbours or the homeplace that owner-occupiers did. On top of that, you had the inevitable resentment that comes with seeing someone get for free what you paid a lot of money for.

I would not suggest that this is going to be the case for all those who've fallen on tough times. It's just the experience of many people out there, and unfortunately that's the sort of experience you don't easily forget.

Well there is one way you could ensure the social housing person takes a more cherished role in his/her abode..although this would really only apply to apartment blocks. Say you live in a block of, I dunno, 12 apartments for example and one of them is occupied by an uneployed S.H. recipient. You could suggest to him that he be the building's handyman and pay him a wage out of the monthly maintenance charge. He can make sure the corridors are clean, he can help out with basic plumbing, tend to whatever little grounds surround the building, etc. He'll take more pride in his little patch AND it'll keep him busy and put a few coins in his pocket. He lives on site so you won't have to wait until morning for some overpriced bollocks to come out and tighten a washer on your faucet, etc. And he can be the point man for the big jobs like contacting the painting company or cleaning service when the halls need a lick of paint of the communal carpets need a steam-cleaning. Just a suggestion.

ejmaztec · 03-05-2010 08:11PM

jackiebaron wrote: »

Well there is one way you could ensure the social housing person takes a more cherished role in his/her abode..although this would really only apply to apartment blocks. Say you live in a block of, I dunno, 12 apartments for example and one of them is occupied by an uneployed S.H. recipient. You could suggest to him that he be the building's handyman and pay him a wage out of the monthly maintenance charge. He can make sure the corridors are clean, he can help out with basic plumbing, tend to whatever little grounds surround the building, etc. He'll take more pride in his little patch AND it'll keep him busy and put a few coins in his pocket. He lives on site so you won't have to wait until morning for some overpriced bollocks to come out and tighten a washer on your faucet, etc. And he can be the point man for the big jobs like contacting the painting company or cleaning service when the halls need a lick of paint of the communal carpets need a steam-cleaning. Just a suggestion.

He could wear a cap as well with "Servant" printed on it, and he could also live in the basement, polish shoes and kiss ass all day.

stepbar · 03-05-2010 08:29PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

He could wear a cap as well with "Servant" printed on it, and he could also live in the basement, polish shoes and kiss ass all day.

I laughed

jackiebaron wrote: »

Well there is one way you could ensure the social housing person takes a more cherished role in his/her abode..although this would really only apply to apartment blocks. Say you live in a block of, I dunno, 12 apartments for example and one of them is occupied by an uneployed S.H. recipient. You could suggest to him that he be the building's handyman and pay him a wage out of the monthly maintenance charge. He can make sure the corridors are clean, he can help out with basic plumbing, tend to whatever little grounds surround the building, etc. He'll take more pride in his little patch AND it'll keep him busy and put a few coins in his pocket. He lives on site so you won't have to wait until morning for some overpriced bollocks to come out and tighten a washer on your faucet, etc. And he can be the point man for the big jobs like contacting the painting company or cleaning service when the halls need a lick of paint of the communal carpets need a steam-cleaning. Just a suggestion.

I'm sure you mean well but that smells of an attidute from the days of the famine.

havana · 03-05-2010 08:50PM

I dont think you meant to comes across so but some of that sounded a bit condesending. 'coins in his pocket' 'his little patch' 'keep him busy'. Some apartment complexes employ people to do such work and anyone who does it deserves a decent wage not a 'few coins' and the knowledge that he has to run around after the deserving folk so he can have a roof over his head.

Fratton Fred · 03-05-2010 08:50PM

I live on a small but very posh estate where most people are barristers, senior civil servants, consultants etc.

60% of the people here are scumbags and deserve to be thrown out of their homes for making people's lives a misery.

Give me poor people anyday.

Einhard · 03-05-2010 08:55PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I live on a small but very posh estate where most people are barristers, senior civil servants, consultants etc.

60% of the people here are scumbags and deserve to be thrown out of their homes for making people's lives a misery.

Give me poor people anyday.

And what do you do exactly that you deserve to keep your home while your neighbouring "scumbags" are evicted from theirs?

K-9 · 03-05-2010 08:58PM

darkman2 wrote: »

I think it is you that needs to take your head out of your arse. See all those burnt out cars in sink estates - all the gangland murders -the **** that is made of the local areas in which social housing is the norm - the lack of respect for anything or anyone? You want to live in one of these sh*tholes? You want that experience foisted on hard working, responsible people to placate your ivory tower left wing nonsense? I expect the old lazy left wing chesnut - "it's not everyone" - you must understand that the reality is that it is a substantial minority of people in communities like that we are talking about - a very substantial minority. And that is the reality. End of story.

You know it and I know it.

That's why you don't put people in ghettoes. Basically your attitude is feck the substantial majority and Nimbyism.

questioner · 03-05-2010 08:59PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I live on a small but very posh estate where most people are barristers, senior civil servants, consultants etc.

60% of the people here are scumbags and deserve to be thrown out of their homes for making people's lives a misery.

Give me poor people anyday.

something stopping you from moving into an area with "the poor people"

pray tell, what do you do that entitles you to denounce others as "scumbags"?

So you bought a nice apartment in Dublin for a lot of money...

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