So you bought a nice apartment in Dublin for a lot of money...

wolfpawnat · 03-05-2010 02:00PM

I am a 23 year old student nurse in UCD, I have a 14 and a half month old son, his father is a 26 year old veterinary student in UCD. We both worked when we were teenagers part time and we both worked as archaeologists for a while too (he has a degree in it) we paid taxes and came from okay backgrounds (his is better than mine). As he is in college he cannot give me money to raise our son and then I depend on Social Welfare, this also means I am on the housing list in Dublin. Does this mean I a scumbag wanting to sponge dole for my life and not do a days work, no!

I live in a set of apartments where I am the apartment below the pent house one, they drive an Aston Martin Vantage and a BMW 3 series. They are loud, noisy, inconsiderate and have late night parties! I watch a dvd and go on the internet, the only noise out of my apartment is when my son who is learning to walk accidently bumps to the floor or throws a tantrum. Who is the more annoying neighbour?

Don't ever DARE say I am a scumbag because I am on that list, before this recession I was from the "middle class", but now due to being on welfare I somehow got demoted to "dole monkey" by some boardsie!!!

El Weirdo · 03-05-2010 02:09PM

Can I just say that social housing tenants do not get their homes "for nothing"? The rents are based on the household's income.

gurramok · 03-05-2010 02:12PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

Can I just say that social housing tenants do not get their homes "for nothing"? The rents are based on the household's income.

In this thread, i'm trying to figure out why bother working when someone next door respectable or not can get the exact same apt for significantly reduced rent. If they are scammers/dole careerists, its adding salt to the wound.

Anyone explain why bother working in this case when I can just join them on the housing list and yet get the same apt?

starbelgrade · 03-05-2010 02:13PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

Can I just say that social housing tenants do not get their homes "for nothing"? The rents are based on the household's income.

True, and I'll also point out that Social & Affordable does not only apply to nice apartments in Dublin. There are also nice apartments outside Dublin. There's actually a whole world outside the capital, amazingly enough.

Ickle Magoo · 03-05-2010 02:17PM

gurramok wrote: »

In this thread, i'm trying to figure out why bother working when someone next door respectable or not can get the exact same apt for significantly reduced rent. If they are scammers/dole careerists, its adding salt to the wound.

Anyone explain why bother working in this case when I can just join them on the housing list and yet get the same apt?

The other way of looking at it is to put yourself in their shoes...if you lost your job or had to give up work to look after a partner/child/parent and went on a social housing list, would you like to live in a ghetto or visibly impoverished and under-serviced area or in a normal street/apartment block/house?

bonerm · 03-05-2010 02:18PM

Grimes wrote: »

I say, jolly good show Biggins. To the hamptons!

Wait, what are you meant to be there? British or American?

As for these people getting free social housing? Pure Baltic Avenue! :mad:

questioner · 03-05-2010 02:27PM

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/american-murder-mystery/6872/

Abrasax · 03-05-2010 02:29PM

starbelgrade wrote: »

There's actually a whole world outside the capital, amazingly enough.

Pics or GTFO.

ronaneire · 03-05-2010 02:36PM

I suppose the fact we're meant to be all God's Children.
Live and let live!

billybigunz · 03-05-2010 02:40PM

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I am a 23 year old student nurse in UCD, I have a 14 and a half month old son, his father is a 26 year old veterinary student in UCD. We both worked when we were teenagers part time and we both worked as archaeologists for a while too (he has a degree in it) we paid taxes and came from okay backgrounds (his is better than mine). As he is in college he cannot give me money to raise our son and then I depend on Social Welfare, this also means I am on the housing list in Dublin. Does this mean I a scumbag wanting to sponge dole for my life and not do a days work, no!

I live in a set of apartments where I am the apartment below the pent house one, they drive an Aston Martin Vantage and a BMW 3 series. They are loud, noisy, inconsiderate and have late night parties! I watch a dvd and go on the internet, the only noise out of my apartment is when my son who is learning to walk accidently bumps to the floor or throws a tantrum. Who is the more annoying neighbour?

Don't ever DARE say I am a scumbag because I am on that list, before this recession I was from the "middle class", but now due to being on welfare I somehow got demoted to "dole monkey" by some boardsie!!!

So like a lot of couples you are both students. The difference here is that you have to state to pay for your lifestyle because you made the decision to have a child. I don't like that part of social welfare.

Biggins · 03-05-2010 02:40PM

billybigunz wrote: »

So like a lot of couples you are both students. The difference here is that you have to state to pay for your lifestyle because you made the decision to have a child. I don't like that part of social welfare.

...We both worked when we were teenagers part time and we both worked as archaeologists for a while too (he has a degree in it) we paid taxes...

Quick to over look that bit aren't we!
Maybe they had a child while working and studying. Never knew that would turn out to be like a crime!

questioner wrote: »

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/american-murder-mystery/6872/

Pity one has to go all the way to the USA for that, considering their gun laws, their much different social welfare system, their huge wider range of ethnic communities, etc...

Interesting point made in it:

A well-known Gautreaux study, released in 1991, showed spectacular results. The sociologist James Rosenbaum at Northwestern University had followed 114 families who had moved to the suburbs, although only 68 were still cooperating by the time he released the study. Compared to former public-housing residents who’d stayed within the city, the suburban dwellers were four times as likely to finish high school, twice as likely to attend college, and more likely to be employed. Newsweek called the program “stunning” and said the project renewed “one’s faith in the struggle.” In a glowing segment, a 60 Minutes reporter asked one Gautreaux boy what he wanted to be when he grew up. “I haven’t really made up my mind,” the boy said. “Construction worker, architect, anesthesiologist.” Another child’s mother declared it “the end of poverty” for her family.

Isn't education a great thing!
One day a social welfare claimant, soon to be something else more important given a chance in life.

starbelgrade · 03-05-2010 02:41PM

Abrasax wrote: »

Pics or GTFO.

The world beyond The Pale..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/devon/content/images/2007/05/11/gambia_trees_465x349.jpg.

bonerm · 03-05-2010 02:46PM

starbelgrade wrote: »

The world beyond The Pale..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/devon/content/images/2007/05/11/gambia_trees_465x349.jpg.

I keep meaning to check out Cork city some day.

starbelgrade · 03-05-2010 02:51PM

bonerm wrote: »

I keep meaning to check out Cork city some day.

Cork city...

http://www.asbestos-news.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/dump.jpg

havana · 03-05-2010 03:22PM

darkman2 wrote: »

Yes, that is my argument...I don't think anyone would be satisfied struggling to pay a mortgage, keep a job and a roof over their heads, and look after their family when a family, esspecially if they do act the prick in the area, are getting the same accomodation for nothing. I can see that frustrating people. Posters above seem to think this does not or won't happen.

They are just being politically correct.

well I for one don't feel one ounce of resentment to any of my neighbours who may have been fortunate to have got their apartment for less than I did - social housing or otherwise. And I'd like to think my neighbours who paid more than me don't resent me. I'm too busy enjoying my life, getting to know my neighbours and my 'glorified flat' to be worried what someone else pai or what their financial situation is.

stepbar · 03-05-2010 03:25PM

Treasury Holdings..... pacifying NAMA with a soother.....

ejmaztec · 03-05-2010 03:28PM

In an ideal situation, people who are being terrorised by their anti-social scumbag neighbours, and can't escape, should be the first ones to be found suitable social housing.

The end result should be that all of the anti-social ones end up being collected together in one location, where fatal "accidents" would be the order of the day. When they've all been wiped out, the place could be bull-dozed and turned into a park.

Biggins · 03-05-2010 03:38PM

Originally Posted by darkman2
They are just being politically correct.

Jesus, your very handy with the broad statements aren't you!
That the best you can do or level you can reach?

As Havana pointed out very well - some of us just don't have chips on our shoulders.
Thats it - end of story! Shove "political correctness" - its about having some fcuking kop-on!

quicklickpaddy · 03-05-2010 04:03PM

Ok reading through this thread I'd be more inclined towards the majority of posters saying that there is a large amount of snobbery in the OPs post.

On the other hand I think that view has been exaggerated. When the OP mentioned classes and asking whether they should be mixed, everyone was shocked and appauled and the idea of classes but the same people thanked another post saying that classes should be mixed.

I think it's fair enough to have some sort of resentment towards somebody getting something you have been working your entire life to afford for free (and not that they shouldn't get it - it's just a fair enough feeling to have).

And also, it's very naive and overly PC to assume that everyone acts the same. For example, my girlfriend has an apartment on St. Anothony's Road, Rialto. The majority of that road/area are council houses and then there are apartments up the top. Last night, coming home on there were fights both at the Luas stop (a minute from her apartment) and outside her apartment. I was genuinely worried about her because she called me when she saw them and stayed on the line until she was in.

You can call snobbery all you like but the simple fact is - you are more likely to encounter trouble in an area with council houses even though clearly you can't tar everyone with the same brush and say that everyone in council houses are scumbags. Credit where credit is due, during the day there seems to be a fairly tight sense of community - but at the same time I have been egged just cycling by minding my own business before.

darkman2 · 03-05-2010 04:05PM

Biggins wrote: »

Jesus, your very handy with the broad statements aren't you!
That the best you can do or level you can reach?

As Havana pointed out very well - some of us just don't have chips on our shoulders.
Thats it - end of story! Shove "political correctness" - its about having some fcuking kop-on!

I think it is you that needs to take your head out of your arse. See all those burnt out cars in sink estates - all the gangland murders -the **** that is made of the local areas in which social housing is the norm - the lack of respect for anything or anyone? You want to live in one of these sh*tholes? You want that experience foisted on hard working, responsible people to placate your ivory tower left wing nonsense? I expect the old lazy left wing chesnut - "it's not everyone" - you must understand that the reality is that it is a substantial minority of people in communities like that we are talking about - a very substantial minority. And that is the reality. End of story.

You know it and I know it.

Doni Mack · 03-05-2010 04:07PM

quicklickpaddy wrote: »

Ok reading through this thread I'd be more inclined towards the majority of posters saying that there is a large amount of snobbery in the OPs post.

On the other hand I think that view has been exaggerated. When the OP mentioned classes and asking whether they should be mixed, everyone was shocked and appauled and the idea of classes but the same people thanked another post saying that classes should be mixed.

I think it's fair enough to have some sort of resentment towards somebody getting something you have been working your entire life to afford for free (and not that they shouldn't get it - it's just a fair enough feeling to have).

And also, it's very naive and overly PC to assume that everyone acts the same. For example, my girlfriend has an apartment on St. Anothony's Road, Rialto. The majority of that road/area are council houses and then there are apartments up the top. Last night, coming home on there were fights both at the Luas stop (a minute from her apartment) and outside her apartment. I was genuinely worried about her because she called me when she saw them and stayed on the line until she was in.

You can call snobbery all you like but the simple fact is - you are more likely to encounter trouble in an area with council houses even though clearly you can't tar everyone with the same brush and say that everyone in council houses are scumbags. Credit where credit is due, during the day there seems to be a fairly tight sense of community - but at the same time I have been egged just cycling by minding my own business before.

Living in the new Fatima? lol

melekalikimaka · 03-05-2010 04:16PM

i would be royally disgrunted if i forked out 500k on an apartment, to discover that nearly half my neighbours are 'scumbags', not saying everyone on the list is, obviously not, but one thing you can be fairly certain of, someone who pays 500k for the apartment next door and has a full tie job, is going ( as a rule of thumb, there are exceptions) to be ALOT better neighbour material. people look at the area the live in when purchasing, if alot of these folk knew there neighbours were gonna be freeloading sorts from (dare i say it) other 'classes', i'm sure they'd have reconsidered...

oh well

let the social experiment begin...

Feeona · 03-05-2010 04:18PM

mikom wrote: »

Yesss.

* Monocle drops into glass of Champagne *

Where's your monopoly now, you monocled twat!

Biggins · 03-05-2010 04:31PM

darkman2 wrote: »

I think it is you that needs to take your head out of your arse. See all those burnt out cars in sink estates - all the gangland murders -the **** that is made of the local areas in which social housing is the norm - the lack of respect for anything or anyone? You want to live in one of these sh*tholes? You want that experience foisted on hard working, responsible people to placate your ivory tower left wing nonsense? I expect the old lazy left wing chesnut - "it's not everyone" - you must understand that the reality is that it is a substantial minority of people in communities like that we are talking about - a very substantial minority. And that is the reality. End of story.

You know it and I know it.

What the hell are you on about this time?

Go back to your FIRST post before you decide to change the goal posts again. Both to the jist of it and the actual words.

...Next door the person may be getting their social housing for nothing. Does not seem fair to me....

You seen to have a chip on your shoulder at this early stage that someone is getting something for nothing (WHICH THEY ARE NOT - and that point alone has been explained too by others), then ye move on to justify your spitefulness by stating more than once that they are by far trouble makers (in one statement, that are just mostly being "moved on")

Then after much broad painting of those on the housing list, you mention gangland killings!
Well here is news for you. Most of the top gangland leaders live in private housing estates or top price apartments/flats! Wow - imagine that! :rolleyes:

In your above statement you refer to bad places. Well no one WANTS to live in those places - but because of the like of those with the chip on their shoulder, the holding of spitefulness and is willing to lash out broadly at enshrouding all, those that wish to leave those hell-holes - won't be even given an equal chance amid brighter, better communities 'cos of others bitchiness.
Some of these hypocrites will be the first to preach about loving they neighbour on a Sunday morning, acting all high and mighty, yet 30 minutes later they will revert back to their normal, bitter selves.

Give people first a chance, give them first an education, given them first a step up - not a boot down in all cases right away.
Then reap the rewards of those that are most appreciative for the opportunity most know they have gained.

Wudyaquit · 03-05-2010 04:41PM

While I've no problem with the social housing initiative, I find it hard to believe that posters wouldn't be pissed off if they'd worked for 10 years and were living with a massive mortgage, when they could under other circumstances have gotten the same apartment by heading off travelling for a few years and then sitting on the dole for the rest of the years.

Perhaps I'm a cynic, but despite posters' assertions I doubt any of them would be clicking their heels at that thought if they were really being honest.

melekalikimaka · 03-05-2010 04:46PM

Biggins wrote: »

Give people first a chance, give them first an education, given them first a step up - not a boot down in all cases right away.
Then reap the rewards of those that are most appreciative for the opportunity most know they have gained.

lol

nice idea...

lil unrealistic

Biggins · 03-05-2010 04:47PM

Wudyaquit wrote: »

While I've no problem with the social housing initiative, I find it hard to believe that posters wouldn't be pissed off if they'd worked for 10 years and were living with a massive mortgage, when they could under other circumstances have gotten the same apartment by heading off travelling for a few years and then sitting on the dole for the rest of the years.

Perhaps I'm a cynic, but despite posters' assertions I doubt any of them would be clicking their heels at that thought if they were really being honest.

Quite true and your words holds water as they say.

The difference though is that some with more kop-on though will have the foresight to put their own undercurrent feelings aside and accept (perhaps grudgingly) that in order to social change to happen and happen hopefully for the better, a bitter pill must be swallowed and better other less fortunates should at least be given a chance, an opportunity to better ones life.

Its the least we can do if we are to see ourselves as decent humans - and not just spiteful, lashing out animals - no further a step up in biological progression than the Cromangon man!

melekalikimaka wrote: »

lol
nice idea...
lil unrealistic

Really?

So most in social housing don't go on to work and contribute to the state at least by paying taxes, levies, etc, besides the occupational roles they take on when they are fortunate to find work?

Let us not forget that while a housing department decision is not always perfect, they do assess the people on the social housing list and put them where indeed they seem appropriate in most cases.
They that make those decisions, do so to the lessen their workload alone.
They know if they shove the trouble makers into an area that is going to be reactivate negatively to any trouble from those put in, they would expect to be yanking the trouble makers out again and ending up making more work for themselves in the long run.

havana · 03-05-2010 04:53PM

Wudyaquit wrote: »

While I've no problem with the social housing initiative, I find it hard to believe that posters wouldn't be pissed off if they'd worked for 10 years and were living with a massive mortgage, when they could under other circumstances have gotten the same apartment by heading off travelling for a few years and then sitting on the dole for the rest of the years.

Perhaps I'm a cynic, but despite posters' assertions I doubt any of them would be clicking their heels at that thought if they were really being honest.

no single person who 'sits' on the dole is going to be given priority if the are are on a housing list. And If someone qualifies for social housing then why should I begrudge them that? Should I resent my neighbours who happened to buy after the prices dropped? Sure, won't deny I wish my mortgage was as small as theirs or that I could have got a bigger place for the price I paid. Or rather am I better off getting to know them and creating a sense of community rather than sitting at home depressing myself cos someone got something a little easier than me?

Mr. Presentable · 03-05-2010 05:03PM

Hang on a sec. The real story here is why the feck are they building more homes when the country is awash in ones that'll never see full occupancy?

melekalikimaka · 03-05-2010 05:04PM

Biggins wrote: »

So most in social housing don't go on to work and contribute to the state at least by paying taxes, levies, etc, besides the occupational roles they take on when they are fortunate to find work?

you can answer that and nor can i.

my issue isnt with the service, its the lack of consideration for the residents.

So you bought a nice apartment in Dublin for a lot of money...

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