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Irish student fights for life in US after baseball bat attack

2

Comments

  • #32
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Stinicker wrote: »

    Most likely that was a Racially motivated crime ....

    Tell me, Caped One, what have your powers revealed that allows you to say such a thing?


  • #33
    Rented Mule
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,154 ✭✭✭Rented Mule


    Regina Phalange wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0428/mcshanen.html

    It would make you sick, they probably only made off with a few dollars!

    Thoughts with Natasha and her family!

    Spoke to the cousin of the American girl, and she only had $50 on her.


  • #34
    Pretty_Pistol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭Pretty_Pistol


    Stinicker wrote: »
    Chiacgo is the most dangerous city in the United States, my sister gave a summer there on a J1, one day (middle of the day) herself and two other girls were walking through some neighbourhood (black) and a jeep pulled up beside them and a white guy gave out stink to them for walking alone there and told them if they were to walk up around the corner they most likely end up gang raped, mugged and killed. He drove them to the cop shop up the block and dropped them off and they got a taxi from there.

    Most likely that was a Racially motivated crime and I really hope the two girls pull through however walking at 3am in Chicago is like Turkeys voting for Christmas.

    Your sister was walking in a ghetto. It wasn't a smart thing to do. She should have read up on where the no go areas were. Just like in Dublin there are good and bad areas.

    From my experience Chicago was the safest city I have holidayed/ lived in. I walked around late at night on my own at times and never had a problem. There are ghettos but you should know where they are if you're living there. Bucktown is not a ghetto.

    I don't see it as a racial attack but an excessive force used in a mugging. Hope the girl pulls through!


  • #35
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,098 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    Nodin wrote: »
    Tell me, Caped One, what have your powers revealed that allows you to say such a thing?

    Because we all know if a white man attacked a black or in this case a Mexican woman it would be automatically a race hate crime. FFS you really must think that every single minority are angels do you? Idiot.


  • #36
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Stinicker wrote: »
    Because we all know if a white man attacked a black or in this case a Mexican woman it would be automatically a race hate crime.

    "We" know nothing of the sort. There'd have to be some sort of evidence pointing towards such a thing. An attack where money is taken tends to point at it being an attack where money was taken ie a mugging. If it turns out both were screaming 'death to the gringo' or had done on a previous occasion, then things must be reassessed.
    Stinicker wrote: »
    FFS you really must think that every single minority are angels do you? Idiot.

    Hardly, nor did I say they were. Every group, almost regardless of hows it's defined, will contain a few 'bad apples'.


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  • #37
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,916 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    I hope to god those scum get the justice they deserve! Given that its America and not here, thats quite likely! I read a story, that boards has a link to about one guy in the states getting charged with 3rd degree assault and 3 months jail time for spitting in a cops burger! I hope they get charged with attempted murder or similar, which to be honest it was, hitting an unexpecting person over the head with a baseball bat repeatedly, especially 2women, is disgusting, cant wait to hear the verdict, what makes it so great is that its not Ireland, you know these scum are going to pay big time for their crime! To potentially kill or turn someone into a vegetable for the contents of their wallet, after a night out, in which cash there may be nothing at all even in it is mind blowing, its not like they were going to walk them to the nearest atm, after they were left for dead!

    How do you know that exactly?

    Or is this a crass assumption?


  • #38
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,706 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    How do you know that exactly?

    Or is this a crass assumption?/QUOTE]

    ofcourse its an assumption, but based on what I have seen and read on the sentences given out over there, atleast they fit the crime! they arent exactly Ireland are they?! OR are you now going to tell me the Americans have a lenient system? Maybe they have it all wrong though! lets be the Irish jury, bad background, no chance in life, poor fella, jail time wont undo the crime...


  • #39
    Rented Mule
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,154 ✭✭✭Rented Mule


    http://www.suntimes.com/news/24-7/2214176,CST-NWS-bucktown29.article

    Bail denied for man charged with beating women with bat
    'COWARDLY' ATTACK | Woman led cops to suspect: prosecutor

    A gang member charged with fracturing the skulls of two women with a baseball bat as they walked home in Bucktown last week was segregated from other inmates in Cook County Jail's maximum-security division Wednesday after a judge ordered him held without bail.

    Heriberto Viramontes, 30, and Marcy Cruz, 25, are charged with aggravated battery and armed robbery. They are accused in the Friday baseball bat attack and robbery of two women in the 1800 block of North Damen Avenue.

    Judge Adam Bourgeois refused to allow Heriberto Viramontes to be freed on bail, saying he posed too big a danger in light of the attack.

    "I don't think there's any condition or set of conditions that I can impose that can protect the community from this individual," Bourgeois said.

    Viramontes, 30, initially declined to be put into segregation, but jail officials insisted. It was the 17th time he had been locked up at Cook County Jail. His girlfriend, Marcy Cruz, 25, also charged in the attack, also remained in the jail. She's awaiting an initial court hearing.

    Assistant Cook County State's Attorney Erin Antonietti had urged Bourgeois to deny Viramontes bail, saying he has "preyed upon two women who were unaware and unarmed and had nothing to protect themselves."


    Here is the latest on the to suspects who "allegedly" assaulted these two women.


  • #40
    Luciano CoolS Headhunter
    Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭ Luciano CoolS Headhunter


    Why is everyone saying these two are Mexicans? I've read a good few articles on this and I haven't seen it ever mentioned.


  • #41
    El Horseboxo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,354 ✭✭✭El Horseboxo


    Stinicker wrote: »
    Because we all know if a white man attacked a black or in this case a Mexican woman it would be automatically a race hate crime. FFS you really must think that every single minority are angels do you? Idiot.

    If race was involved in something like this it would be more along the lines of white people are likely to have more money. Especially in an upmarket place. A lot of minority 'gangstas' and the likes would think with that logic.


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  • #42
    Rented Mule
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,154 ✭✭✭Rented Mule


    [quote=[Deleted User];65647929]Why is everyone saying these two are Mexicans? I've read a good few articles on this and I haven't seen it ever mentioned.[/QUOTE]

    Have you looked at the pictures and their names ? I'll go one better to say that the area that they live in is heavily Mexican as well.
    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • #43
    Rented Mule
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,154 ✭✭✭Rented Mule


    El Horseboxo wrote: »
    If race was involved in something like this it would be more along the lines of white people are likely to have more money. Especially in an upmarket place. A lot of minority 'gangstas' and the likes would think with that logic.

    This is exactly what happened. I am sure they drove by multiple people of every race imaginable before they got to this area to target these women.

    They weren't attacked just because they were 'white'. They were attacked because they were 'white and most likely had money' in this neighborhood.


  • #44
    Orange69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭Orange69


    I doubt this was racially motivated. But it is true that if the attacker was white and the victim any other race (particularly black or lation) it would probably be twisted as a hate crime. Its a double standard that exists and that wont be resolved until the liberal morons cop on and allow people to talk openly about race. I hope this girl gets through this without too much damage, my experience living in the US has been very positive, I fell far safer here than I ever have in Ireland.


  • #45
    Orange69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭Orange69


    Rented Mule wrote: »
    They weren't attacked just because they were 'white'. They were attacked because they were 'white and most likely had money' in this neighborhood.

    And white people are perceived as a soft touch as we have been beaten into a quivering husk by the pc brigade.


  • #46
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Orange69 wrote: »
    And white people are perceived as a soft touch as we have been beaten into a quivering husk by the pc brigade.

    So white folk are easier to mug because of the 'pc brigade'....Hmmmmm. That's left of field, even for AH.


  • #47
    Orange69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭Orange69


    Nodin wrote: »
    So white folk are easier to mug because of the 'pc brigade'....Hmmmmm. That's left of field, even for AH.

    yes because if you defend yourself you are automatically a racist bigoted nazi loving right winger..


  • #48
    Luciano CoolS Headhunter
    Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭ Luciano CoolS Headhunter


    Rented Mule wrote: »
    Have you looked at the pictures and their names ? I'll go one better to say that the area that they live in is heavily Mexican as well.

    Yes, I have. And why would I decide that they must be Mexican nationals? If they were born in the US, they're Mexican-American. And who's to say they're not of Puerto Rican origin, for example? I don't get this categorising every single person with a Spanish surname as a Mexican.

    And LOL at the people suggesting that this was a hate crime. It's about 1000 times more likely that the guy thought 'white, young women walking alone = easy target'.


  • #49
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    Orange69 wrote: »
    yes because if you defend yourself you are automatically a racist bigoted nazi loving right winger..

    I only wish you knew what irony is.


  • #50
    Rented Mule
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,154 ✭✭✭Rented Mule


    [quote=[Deleted User];65648616]Yes, I have. And why would I decide that they must be Mexican nationals? If they were born in the US, they're Mexican-American. And who's to say they're not of Puerto Rican origin, for example? I don't get this categorising every single person with a Spanish surname as a Mexican.

    And LOL at the people suggesting that this was a hate crime. It's about 1000 times more likely that the guy thought 'white, young women walking alone = easy target'.[/QUOTE]


    I'll agree that most people will automatically jump towards throwing the word 'Mexican' around when it comes to identifying Latino people. I am basing this on the address given in the articles. Had this been a Humboldt Park address, I would have assumed that the suspects were Puerto Rican.

    I am not sure if you are familiar with Chicago still has ethnic immigrant ghettos.

    The other thing that you may not realise is that the people in these areas consider themselves to be Mexican first and foremost. This is not an uncommon phenomena in the States.

    As far as this being a 'hate crime', I'll clarify what I said... ' this was a crime of opportunity'. The suspects drove to this area because it is more upscale. They waited for anyone who looked like they may have had money and then assaulted them for it.

    At the end of the day, they only got $50 and a few credit cards.
    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • #51
    Luciano CoolS Headhunter
    Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭ Luciano CoolS Headhunter


    Rented Mule wrote: »
    I'll agree that most people will automatically jump towards throwing the word 'Mexican' around when it comes to identifying Latino people. I am basing this on the address given in the articles. Had this been a Humboldt Park address, I would have assumed that the suspects were Puerto Rican.

    I am not sure if you are familiar with Chicago still has ethnic immigrant ghettos.

    The other thing that you may not realise is that the people in these areas consider themselves to be Mexican first and foremost. This is not an uncommon phenomena in the States.

    As far as this being a 'hate crime', I'll clarify what I said... ' this was a crime of opportunity'. The suspects drove to this area because it is more upscale. They waited for anyone who looked like they may have had money and then assaulted them for it.

    At the end of the day, they only got $50 and a few credit cards.

    I do realise those things. But if they're not Mexican nationals, referring to them as 'two Mexicans' is inaccurate and unfair. And I don't think I'm being overly PC by saying that. If a guy called John O'Reilly from Woodlawn in the Bronx assaulted someone, how would people here feel if he was being referred to as an Irishman? He might consider himself Irish but most people here wouldn't, and they'd probably be annoyed that he was being associated with Ireland when he probably hasn't even set foot in the place.


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  • #52
    Kirnsy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 970 ✭✭✭Kirnsy


    Rented Mule wrote: »
    I'll agree that most people will automatically jump towards throwing the word 'Mexican' around when it comes to identifying Latino people. I am basing this on the address given in the articles. Had this been a Humboldt Park address, I would have assumed that the suspects were Puerto Rican.

    I am not sure if you are familiar with Chicago still has ethnic immigrant ghettos.

    The other thing that you may not realise is that the people in these areas consider themselves to be Mexican first and foremost. This is not an uncommon phenomena in the States.

    As far as this being a 'hate crime', I'll clarify what I said... ' this was a crime of opportunity'. The suspects drove to this area because it is more upscale. They waited for anyone who looked like they may have had money and then assaulted them for it.

    At the end of the day, they only got $50 and a few credit cards.

    and hopefully a long stretch in prison


  • #53
    Midnight_EG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,849 ✭✭✭Midnight_EG


    Just to take it a little off-topic, why is it always such a national outcry when an Irish person is attacked in a foreign country. It happens every single day in every single country, to every nationality possible. Honestly I don't see why we need to know about it, it's just too common!

    It's as if the papers are only making a big deal out of it because she was of a different nationality, if she was American there might have been a little note in the middle of the paper or something....


  • #54
    Rented Mule
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,154 ✭✭✭Rented Mule


    [quote=[Deleted User];65649162]I do realise those things. But if they're not Mexican nationals, referring to them as 'two Mexicans' is inaccurate and unfair. And I don't think I'm being overly PC by saying that. If a guy called John O'Reilly from Woodlawn in the Bronx assaulted someone, how would people here feel if he was being referred to as an Irishman? He might consider himself Irish but most people here wouldn't, and they'd probably be annoyed that he was being associated with Ireland when he probably hasn't even set foot in the place.[/QUOTE]

    Well how would you know that a John O'Reilly from Woodlawn in the Bronx didn't hold an Irish passport ? lol

    I understand what you are saying, but I am not sure that you have ever been in the barrios. I have many Mexican friends. Almost everyone of them has dual citizenship and refer to themselves as Mexican.....because they are Mexican. Plain and simple.

    I'll try to find out more information in regards to the two suspects to clarify their exact nationality.
    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • #55
    Kirnsy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 970 ✭✭✭Kirnsy


    Midnight_EG wrote: »
    Just to take it a little off-topic, why is it always such a national outcry when an Irish person is attacked in a foreign country. It happens every single day in every single country, to every nationality possible. Honestly I don't see why we need to know about it, it's just too common!

    It's as if the papers are only making a big deal out of it because she was of a different nationality, if she was American there might have been a little note in the middle of the paper or something....

    There was an american student there too. In fact most of the focus has (naturally) been on her in the articles I've read. I think its to do with the savagery and the location of the assault as much as the people involved.


  • #56
    Rented Mule
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,154 ✭✭✭Rented Mule


    Midnight_EG wrote: »
    It's as if the papers are only making a big deal out of it because she was of a different nationality, if she was American there might have been a little note in the middle of the paper or something....

    I don't think that would be the case. Anytime you hear that two defenseless women are attacked and robbed with baseball bats you are going to generate interest in the people buying newspapers. At the end of the day....this is a big ratings bonanza for both the print and television media over here.


  • #57
    Midnight_EG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,849 ✭✭✭Midnight_EG


    Kirnsy wrote: »
    There was an american student there too. In fact most of the focus has (naturally) been on her in the articles I've read. I think its to do with the savagery and the location of the assault as much as the people involved.

    Sorry, I meant about any Irish person attacked anywhere, not just this specific case :o


  • #58
    PCros
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭PCros


    Midnight_EG wrote: »
    Sorry, I meant about any Irish person attacked anywhere, not just this specific case :o

    I think its more of a "we're a big family" type of thing, we're shocked if one of us gets murdered beaten to a pulp abroad. We are a small nation at the end of the day.


  • #59
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    I think it's more that it's an Irish paper: they're going to print stories that will be of interest to Irish people.

    Sad as it is, it would simply be impractical to report on every death in the States. Though I apologise if I've misinterpreted what you've said.


  • #60
    Rented Mule
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,154 ✭✭✭Rented Mule


    More information in regards to the beatings.

    http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/2215924,bucktown-girlfriend-bail-hearing042910.article

    Prosecutor: Girlfriend 'just as culpable' for Bucktown baseball-bat beating
    The girlfriend of a man accused of beating two young women unconscious with a baseball bat in Bucktown last week was ordered held on $1 million bail today after prosecutors said she was “just as culpable and as guilty for every whack of the bat.’’

    Marcy Cruz, 25, told her boyfriend, co-defendant Heriberto Viramontes, to “look at all those drunk a
    coming out of the bar’’ — moments before Viramontes attacked Natasha McShane and Stacy Jurich, Assistant Cook County State’s Attorney Erin Antonietti said.

    Cruz pointed out the potential victims in the early hours of Friday after Viramontes told her he needed ‘“quick money and drugs,’’ Antonietti said.

    Moments later he jumped from her van, attacked the women as they walked home from a night out, then sped off with Cruz in the van.

    Before the attack, Cruz told police, she “smoked a blunt’’ in the van, Antonietti said.

    Afterward, she took perfume and make-up from the victims’ purses and was filmed using the victims’ credit cards at a nearby gas station, Antonietti added, urging Judge Donald Panarese to deny Cruz bail.

    Jurich needed 15 staples to the outside of her head and McShane remains in a coma, she said.

    Doctors “don’t know if she will ever walk or speak again,’’ Antonietti said.

    The victims “could not have been attacked’’ without Cruz’s assistance, she said, saying Cruz was “as culpable and as guilty for every whack of the bat as defendant Viramontes.’’

    Assistant Public Defender Lee Carson said there was no evidence that Cruz knew what Viramontes was going to do.

    Her alleged involvement was “all after the fact,’’ he said.

    But Antonietti said Cruz “was aware of the co-defendant’s plans.’’

    Viramontes was denied bail Wednesday after Judge Adam Bourgeois said there was “no condition or set of conditions that I can impose that can protect the community from this individual.’’


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  • #61
    Orange69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭Orange69


    Morkarleth wrote: »
    I only wish you knew what irony is.

    If you want to make a snide comment at least have it make sense...


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