USI

myk · 19-04-2010 01:33PM #1

There was a USI re-affiliation debate last week in DCU.

Interesting to note that, the SU exec in St Pat's Drumcondra are leading a campaign to disaffiliate from USI at the moment. NUI Maynooth recently voted to re-affiliate. Maynooth left the same year that DCU left.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Vote-Yes-to-Independence-from-USI/107745485931245?v=wall&ref=nf

19-04-2010 02:26PM

Having some knowledge of the USI, knowing some people involved, I can just say that it is a waste. They seem to be like an ordinary students union but their egos are 10 times bigger. I really don't want any money being diverted away from DCU and into their pockets so please Mr. Conlon, **** off.

Green Hand Guy · 19-04-2010 02:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Having some knowledge of the USI, knowing some people involved, I can just say that it is a waste. They seem to be like an ordinary students union but their egos are 10 times bigger. I really don't want any money being diverted away from DCU and into their pockets so please Mr. Conlon, **** off.

Exactly. And, if anything, this blatant agenda of the College View's has put me even more off the idea.

Alan Keegan made his position on it clear when running for president, and the student body voted for him. The College View was elected by one society, and yet feel they have the right to campaign on behalf of everyone for something it seems only people on their editorial team want. It's very off-putting and very tabloidy, which is a shame because once you get past the first five pages of the paper there's usually some pretty decent content.

robby^5 · 19-04-2010 03:41PM

The College View is completely biased in a lot of areas such as the USI debate, I wouldn't listen to single thing they have to say about USI. Their agenda is as clear as day to anyone who reads it regularly.

If the students want to rejoin USI then it will be evident that they want to, CV doesn't need to keep bombarding us with articles about USI each and every week. It's a real let down as there are some great articles in there.

Foxkehs · 20-04-2010 11:32AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Having some knowledge of the USI, knowing some people involved, I can just say that it is a waste. They seem to be like an ordinary students union but their egos are 10 times bigger. I really don't want any money being diverted away from DCU and into their pockets so please Mr. Conlon, **** off.

Actually, it was arranged that 'Mr.Conlon' was going to speak AGAINST USI in the debate but he was working. It would have been a tag team of McClave and Conlon. Pity. However, McClave did fantastically.

myk · 20-04-2010 01:49PM

Foxkehs wrote: »

Actually, it was arranged that 'Mr.Conlon' was going to speak AGAINST USI in the debate but he was working. It would have been a tag team of McClave and Conlon. Pity. However, McClave did fantastically.

The USI speakers did a pretty decent job and it seems like they will have a good team for next year.

The problem is that even with a good team, they aren't worth the affiliation fee and there is a big risk that in the near future they will go back to having a poor or terrible team, like they have had in the recent past.

phantom_lord · 20-04-2010 01:56PM

so we have to pay an affiliation fee, and what do we get exactly?

myk · 20-04-2010 01:58PM

phantom_lord wrote: »

so we have to pay an affiliation fee, and what do we get exactly?

Boozey weekends in a four star hotel, paid for by DCU students if you are delegate to USI Congress

http://www.sin.ie/cms/view/956/

MonaghanPenguin · 20-04-2010 02:00PM

Foxkehs wrote: »

It would have been a tag team of McClave and Conlon.

Lets get ready to rumble!

I think a 3 v 3 debate might have made things a bit more spicey. Also it's a pity that we didn't have some one from our sister college St. Pat's to speak as to why they're pulling out this year. Overall though I think it was a pretty interesting discussion. I know I'm a little biased but I didn't feel USI put up a very good argument as to why we should rejoin.

I would say though that if USI pushed through the reforms that it needs that DCU should consider joining then. But only then.

myk · 20-04-2010 02:03PM

MonaghanPenguin wrote: »

Lets get ready to rumble!

I think a 3 v 3 debate might have made things a bit more spicey. Also it's a pity that we didn't have some one from our sister college St. Pat's to speak as to why they're pulling out this year. Overall though I think it was a pretty interesting discussion. I know I'm a little biased but I didn't feel USI put up a very good argument as to why we should rejoin.

I would say though that if USI pushed through the reforms that it needs that DCU should consider joining then. But only then.

Or someone from UL SU, our sister university, to discuss why they aren't even considering it.

The best suggestion I heard was that DCU SU should draw up a list of what they want from USI, a terms of service showing what reform they want, what level of service, input and costs. And that re-affiliation be based on that, and similarly DCU re-affiliated and that at a later stage if USI fail to provide, that it would trigger a dis-affiliation referendum.

Even having said all that, the affiliation fee is huge and I'm not sure that it couldn't be spent more effectively locally.

Oh and on St Pat's

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Vote-Yes-to-Independence-from-USI/107745485931245?v=wall&ref=ts

Choc123 · 20-04-2010 02:57PM

myk wrote: »

Or someone from UL SU, our sister university, to discuss why they aren't even considering it.

UL is not a "sister" university of DCU.

And on that point, ULSU are not pro reafilliation for many reasons but one of them is that due to their geographic location, they don't feel USI will do much for them and also it is felt in UL that USI aren't particularly pushed about getting them back for example..there has been no effort by USI to enter UL for a debate in on the issue like there has been in DCU.

On the point of the CV being overly pro USI, they have also run articles like this one which quite clearly is not favourable towards the organisation.

myk · 20-04-2010 03:35PM

Choc123 wrote: »

UL is not a "sister" university of DCU.

Sure it is, both colleges were granted University status at the same time. They have more in common with DCU than any of the other universities; their youth and focus on vocational courses.

Carri · 20-04-2010 03:54PM

myk wrote: »

Sure it is, both colleges were granted University status at the same time. They have more in common with DCU than any of the other universities; their youth and focus on vocational courses.

Thats like saying I'm the sister of every single person born on July 4th who also has blonde hair. Which is totally not true.

USI seems to have alot of money involved, along with alot of rabble.. I think we should hold off for now.

Landa2 · 20-04-2010 04:13PM

MonaghanPenguin wrote: »

I would say though that if USI pushed through the reforms that it needs that DCU should consider joining then. But only then.

Agreed, as it stands right now we have more reasons not to be a part of USI.. although there is talk of a massive restructure, but again i wouldn't hold my breath on that..

Green Hand Guy · 20-04-2010 05:38PM

Choc123 wrote: »

UL is not a "sister" university of DCU.
On the point of the CV being overly pro USI, they have also run articles like this one which quite clearly is not favourable towards the organisation.

Yes, but all you have to do is look back a few weeks (the issue before the election one. 4 weeks ago I think) to see their special USI Propoganda issue, featuring page after page of pro-USI articles, the return of the letters page (with the only letter being from someone from USI) and all kinds of telling-us-what-we-should-think-rather-than-reporting-the-news fun.

phantom_lord · 20-04-2010 06:45PM

phantom_lord wrote: »

what do we get exactly?

.

20-04-2010 07:00PM

More gob****e students fighting among eachother to be the very best they can possibly be and also get their mugshots in as many papers as possible...

thusspakeblixa · 20-04-2010 08:43PM

Choc123 wrote: »

I assure you there is no "fighting" amongst college view writers. As always Cynical Ru, you make some extremely useless points.

I'm fairly sure he was talking about the USI...

Landa2 · 20-04-2010 09:07PM

Just got home from work, my sister was in the sitting room talking about USI's visit to the St Pats campus today (and yesterday). Ok, this is basically what she said..

Yesterday USI appeared on campus toting posters and flyers to campaign for a yes vote in tomorrows referendum keeping St Pats in the USI. These materials contained public attacks on the much loved St Pats SU President, saying stuff along the lines of PERSON has attended a total of 0 meetings this year.. Stick it to PERSON by voting to stay in USI..

Suffice to say when it came to the debate today they were effectively laughed off stage..

Is this the USI we want to be joining, a USI that attacks people that dont see things like the want them to be seen.. I dont think so, what they have done in Pats is an absolute disgrace..

MonaghanPenguin · 20-04-2010 09:19PM

Landa2 wrote: »

Just got home from work, my sister was in the sitting room talking about USI's visit to the St Pats campus today (and yesterday). Ok, this is basically what she said..

Yesterday USI appeared on campus toting posters and flyers to campaign for a yes vote in tomorrows referendum keeping St Pats in the USI. These materials contained public attacks on the much loved St Pats SU President, saying stuff along the lines of PERSON has attended a total of 0 meetings this year.. Stick it to PERSON by voting to stay in USI..

Suffice to say when it came to the debate today they were effectively laughed off stage..

Is this the USI we want to be joining, a USI that attacks people that dont see things like the want them to be seen.. I dont think so, what they have done in Pats is an absolute disgrace..

This is one of my biggest problems with USI, with a large amount of sabbats, ten currently, they can't afford to hire a professional who can actually run effective campaign.

Choc123 · 20-04-2010 10:10PM

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

I'm fairly sure he was talking about the USI...

Apologies. deleted

vinnyb · 20-04-2010 11:05PM

Do the SU want a proper debate? When I offered to approach a 3 times USI Officer (including 1 time president) and former DCU student who currently sits on the board of USI on behalf of the SU with regards to taking part in any debate I was subtly dismissed.

Also with regards to USI I personally am undecided on the issue however one thing I have noted is how positive USI is for the Irish language. It is no coincedence that ourselves and UL are the two worst SUs in the country for the Irish language, fact!!!

Tiroskan · 20-04-2010 11:34PM

vinnyb wrote: »

Do the SU want a proper debate? When I offered to approach a 3 times USI Officer (including 1 time president) and former DCU student who currently sits on the board of USI on behalf of the SU with regards to taking part in any debate I was subtly dismissed.

Also with regards to USI I personally am undecided on the issue however one thing I have noted is how positive USI is for the Irish language. It is no coincedence that ourselves and UL are the two worst SUs in the country for the Irish language, fact!!!

Umm, actually, I completely fail to see how DCU and UL's failings regarding the Irish language have anything at all to do with whether or not we're a part of USI. Which would, in fact, make it a coincidence.

Feel free to explain, however.

Diarmsquid · 20-04-2010 11:44PM

Landa2 wrote: »

Just got home from work, my sister was in the sitting room talking about USI's visit to the St Pats campus today (and yesterday). Ok, this is basically what she said..

Yesterday USI appeared on campus toting posters and flyers to campaign for a yes vote in tomorrows referendum keeping St Pats in the USI. These materials contained public attacks on the much loved St Pats SU President, saying stuff along the lines of PERSON has attended a total of 0 meetings this year.. Stick it to PERSON by voting to stay in USI..

Suffice to say when it came to the debate today they were effectively laughed off stage..

Is this the USI we want to be joining, a USI that attacks people that dont see things like the want them to be seen.. I dont think so, what they have done in Pats is an absolute disgrace..

I don't think that's bad campaigning on USI's part. Pat's SU have been running the campaign that they see no return for the €11,000 they pay every year, but if the President has in fact not attended a single USI meeting, how can they expect to gain anything? It's the SU Presidents fault as much as USI's, if not more so.

A valid point to raise I'd have thought.

Green Hand Guy · 20-04-2010 11:50PM

Tiroskan wrote: »

Umm, actually, I completely fail to see how DCU and UL's failings regarding the Irish language have anything at all to do with whether or not we're a part of USI. Which would, in fact, make it a coincidence.

Feel free to explain, however.

I agree.

Also, I'm in college to learn computers, not Irish. And a large proportion of students aren't even from Ireland. It really annoys me how some Irish-speakers can't just be content to speak it themselves and feel they have to force it on the rest of us. Had enough of that in secondary school.

Cy_Revenant · 21-04-2010 12:35AM

Diarmsquid wrote: »

I don't think that's bad campaigning on USI's part. Pat's SU have been running the campaign that they see no return for the €11,000 they pay every year, but if the President has in fact not attended a single USI meeting, how can they expect to gain anything? It's the SU Presidents fault as much as USI's, if not more so.

A valid point to raise I'd have thought.

Not entirely.

I can't see this campaign to withdraw from USI as something which has grown from a semester of getting nothing back. If there's really a feeling for disenfranchisement, then it must have started before the current Union President's time in office, surely?

MonaghanPenguin · 21-04-2010 11:38AM

Cy_Revenant wrote: »

Not entirely.

I can't see this campaign to withdraw from USI as something which has grown from a semester of getting nothing back. If there's really a feeling for disenfranchisement, then it must have started before the current Union President's time in office, surely?

When I was starting my year in DCU I met the outgoing Pat's president and she was adamant that the best thing for St. Pat's would be to leave USI and that they got nothing out of it. So it goes back three years at least.

MonaghanPenguin · 21-04-2010 11:43AM

vinnyb wrote: »

Do the SU want a proper debate? When I offered to approach a 3 times USI Officer (including 1 time president) and former DCU student who currently sits on the board of USI on behalf of the SU with regards to taking part in any debate I was subtly dismissed.

Well it probably had to do with the fact that they'd gotten a fair representation from USI as it was. The incoming USI President, Deputy President and Welfare Officers, as well as the out going Eastern Area Officer and the outgoing NUIM President (who led the reaffiliation charge down there) were all there present and either made speeches or were allowed contribute to the open floor discussion. They hardly stacked the odds against USI.

vinnyb · 21-04-2010 12:28PM

Green Hand Guy wrote: »

I agree.

Also, I'm in college to learn computers, not Irish. And a large proportion of students aren't even from Ireland. It really annoys me how some Irish-speakers can't just be content to speak it themselves and feel they have to force it on the rest of us. Had enough of that in secondary school.

Thats lovely to hear your here to learn computers, I'm here to learn business. Yet if as an Irish speaker (thats right its mad to think that Irish is actually a language not a subject) I wish to fight for my constitutional rights as an Irishman why does it affect you. Did anyone in DCU ever make you speak Irish? No. So who forced it on you? A sub-total of no one. Just because you don't want to speak Irish doesn't mean you can't recognise its importance as our national language.

In response to an earlier question about relevance of USI to Irish

Because USI is at the forefront of many Irish language schemes, recently last weekend 250000 students in Ireland were represented by USI at Ardfheis Conradh na Gaeilge, where was DCUSU's representation?

USI had a voice on the Executive Committee that organised Rith 2010, one of the most vibrant things that has happened the Irish language in many years.

USI has fought for Irish Language living schemes in all its member colleges, where is ours? Why should an Irish man have to live through the medium of English in his own country if he doesn't want to?

USI has initiated a scheme to spread visibilty of Irish speakers amongst 3rd level students by introducing bands for Irish speakers so they can recognise each other. Where are our bands? Even though they were requested from the SU.

21-04-2010 12:53PM

vinnyb wrote: »

...

€11000 for colourful posters...I want more than that. Vinny, we have a very active Cumann Gaelach that should sort you out. It's €4.

Landa2 · 21-04-2010 01:08PM

vinnyb wrote: »

Thats lovely to hear your here to learn computers, I'm here to learn business. Yet if as an Irish speaker (thats right its mad to think that Irish is actually a language not a subject) I wish to fight for my constitutional rights as an Irishman why does it affect you. Did anyone in DCU ever make you speak Irish? No. So who forced it on you? A sub-total of no one. Just because you don't want to speak Irish doesn't mean you can't recognise its importance as our national language.

Ok, this is all a little extreme.. I am also here to learn computers, i also would like to learn more of my national language, all around me people are calling it a dead language and i disagree completely.. its our language, heritage and culture..

But, again im in college to do something specific.. USI throwing resources into irish language development that could have gone elsewhere seems pointless in third level education.. at this stage the majority of people either know irish or they dont, i cant see anyone picking up an extra learning outcome on top of everything else they have to do.. i agree that money should be put into learning and promoting irish but this money should have been put in in primary and second level education tracks..

Now i am in a somewhat unique position, i am now in DCU but i was in DIT previous to this and i must say in all my time in DIT i didn't see any USI campaign in English let alone Irish, this may have changed since but that was my experience..

On a previous point, on top of our very active Cumann Gaelach.. DCU have also put a lot of time and resources into developing their Fiontar course structure allowing study in Irish in ether of the business or computing streams..

USI

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