Promiscuous women cause earthquakes...

homer911 · 20-04-2010 05:00PM #1

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8631775.stm

Do you agree with this or do you think this discredits the Islamic faith? (Christian poster)

hivizman · 20-04-2010 07:24PM

Didn't Christian evangelist preachers claim that Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment for the promiscuity of the population of New Orleans?

Although this sort of argument is an example of the "post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy (because A comes before B, A is assumed fallaciously to be the cause of

, both the Bible and the Qu'ran refer to cities and nations that were destroyed by God because of the behaviour of their inhabitants. For example, in the Qu'ran, Surat Al-Qamar (Surah 54) includes a version of the story of Noah's flood ("And so We caused the gates of heaven to open with water pouring down in torrents, and caused the earth to burst forth with springs, so that the waters met for a purpose pre-ordained" - ayat 10-11). The Surah also includes the destruction of the people of 'Ad: "Behold, We let loose upon them a raging stormwind on a day of bitter misfortune: it swept the people away as though they were palm-trunks uprooted: for, how severe is the suffering which I inflict when My warnings are disregarded!" (ayat 20-22), the destruction of the people of Thamud, and the destruction of the people of Lut (the inhabitants of Sodom).

So while the Iranian cleric quoted in the article about the cause of earthquakes has no warrant for claiming that recent earthquakes in Iran are God's punishment for promiscuous women (anyway, unless there has been a sudden outbreak of Lesbianism in Iran, what about the promiscuous men?), the notion that sinful deeds may be punished in this life, not just in the hereafter, is, I understand, a common Muslim belief.

oncevotedff · 20-04-2010 10:34PM

hivizman wrote: »

Didn't Christian evangelist preachers claim that Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment for the promiscuity of the population of New Orleans?

And homsexuality is the cause of paedophilia. Apparently all religions are equally nutty.

homer911 · 21-04-2010 08:10PM

Good responses - all sorts of faiths get a bad rap due to a few nuts! ..and the media loves to make a big story out of it!

irishconvert · 22-04-2010 10:41AM

Bear in mind that this report comes from the BBC who are the British Government's propaganda machine and have a clear agenda to topple the Iranian government. I wouldn't rely on their intrepretation of what Hojjat ol-eslam Kazem Sediqi actually said.

Zombrex · 22-04-2010 10:55AM

irishconvert wrote: »

Bear in mind that this report comes from the BBC who are the British Government's propaganda machine and have a clear agenda to topple the Iranian government. I wouldn't rely on their intrepretation of what Hojjat ol-eslam Kazem Sediqi actually said.

Sediqi is part of the Iranian government?

wes · 22-04-2010 11:19AM

Yeah, it was a silly thing to say, and this kind of things comes from the ME from time to time.

Also, I don't think it propoganda from the BBC, considering they covered a similar story from Israel:

Israeli MP blames quakes on gays

hivizman · 22-04-2010 11:26AM

And US political commentator Rush Limbaugh has apparently blamed the Icelandic volcano on the recent US health care reforms:

limbaugh-volcano-is-gods-response-to-health-care-reform

KamiKazi · 22-04-2010 03:46PM

A religious figure publicly saying something retarded??!

Shock! Horror!

irishconvert · 22-04-2010 04:03PM

KamiKazi wrote: »

A religious figure publicly saying something retarded??!

Shock! Horror!

If you don't have anything constructive to add then don't bother posting here

KamiKazi · 22-04-2010 06:15PM

irishconvert wrote: »

If you don't have anything constructive to add then don't bother posting here

I added my opinion that what he said was retarded.

The Recliner · 22-04-2010 06:22PM

KamiKazi wrote: »

I added my opinion that what he said was retarded.

Banned for arguing with Moderation on thread

hivizman · 22-04-2010 06:28PM

Getting back to the topic, the news article quoted contains a classic case of double standards on the part of the Iranian preacher: "Many women who do not dress modestly lead young men astray and spread adultery in society which increases earthquakes." So it's all the fault of women!

The preacher went on to describe the violence following last year's disputed presidential election in Iran - the result of which prompted thousands of people to hold mass protests - as a "political earthquake". If earthquakes are sent by God as signs of God's displeasure, with whom is God displeased when we have a "political" earthquake?

In any event, how does a claim that events in the natural world have in some sense been caused by God as a reaction to displeasing human behaviour fit in with the fundamental Muslim belief in qadar or destiny?

Freiheit · 22-04-2010 09:42PM

I feel sorry for the women of Iran...and the Islamic concept of women in general saddens me...where it's the obligation of the woman not to stimulate sexual desires in men...why should it not be the obligation of men to control their lustful desires?.....I don't see men in hijab....should it not be an equal obligation of them to cover up and not stimulate lust in women?...Hijab should be for all or not at all.... This is not intended to offend Islam,it's merely something which I cannot help question. I respect Islam and bear no ill towards Islam or Muslims.

hivizman · 23-04-2010 09:56AM

I've posted this verse before, but it needs to be repeated that the Qu'ran is very clear that men are responsible for controlling their desires. Surat an-Nur (24:30 - Yusuf Ali version): "Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do." In theory, it shouldn't matter how women dress, because men shouldn't be looking at them in the first place (unless they are married or closely related).

irishconvert · 23-04-2010 10:05AM

Freiheit wrote: »

the Islamic concept of women in general saddens me...where it's the obligation of the woman not to stimulate sexual desires in men...why should it not be the obligation of men to control their lustful desires?

There is an obligation on man. We are told in the Qur'an to lower our gaze when we see women.

Freiheit wrote: »

.....I don't see men in hijab....should it not be an equal obligation of them to cover up and not stimulate lust in women?

There is. We are supposed to wear non-revealing clothing and we have to have a bushy beard. Doesn't really stimulate lust in women I'm sure you agree

Freiheit wrote: »

...Hijab should be for all or not at all....

Women have beautiful hair, I don't think the same can be said for men. How many women do you know who will tell you thel fell in love with a man bacause of his hair?

Freiheit wrote: »

This is not intended to offend Islam,it's merely something which I cannot help question. I respect Islam and bear no ill towards Islam or Muslims.

I think you should do a little more research on the rules of modesty in Islam and the reasons behind them before you come to your conclusions.

Freiheit · 23-04-2010 10:28AM

I don't believe that a woman could not be sexually attracted to a man's uncovered hair....there is a huge disparity in the presentation of Islamic men and women.....

Zombrex · 23-04-2010 01:25PM

irishconvert wrote: »

Women have beautiful hair, I don't think the same can be said for men. How many women do you know who will tell you thel fell in love with a man bacause of his hair?

I'm not sure I would go as far as fell in love with, but I'm sure you will agree women often find a man's hair and facial hair sexually arousing.

I'm not quite sure how Islam deals with this? Are you told to keep your hair in a particularly unflattering fashion?

If so, what do you do when you are actual around your wife? The woman, if I understand, can remove her head dress for her husband, because it is ok to be beautiful and appealing to your husband.

If Islamic men are told to ensure their face and hair is unappealing to women, so as not to arose their desires, what do they do around their wives?

old hippy · 23-04-2010 01:30PM

irishconvert wrote: »

Bear in mind that this report comes from the BBC who are the British Government's propaganda machine and have a clear agenda to topple the Iranian government. I wouldn't rely on their intrepretation of what Hojjat ol-eslam Kazem Sediqi actually said.

LOL, the beeb are most def not the British Government's propaganda machine.

Let's see this clear agenda to topple the Iranian Govt, then.

Freiheit · 23-04-2010 03:01PM

Sounds like men governing the lives of women, men making judgments about how women feel....without having experienced being women themselves....so how can they know? if they have never lived in a female body? Is there any scientific studies to support this theory? Is there any women here who can explain whether a mans hair or beard are sexually stimulating?

irishconvert · 23-04-2010 03:19PM

Freiheit wrote: »

Sounds like men governing the lives of women, men making judgments about how women feel....without having experienced being women themselves....so how can they know? if they have never lived in a female body? Is there any scientific studies to support this theory? Is there any women here who can explain whether a mans hair or beard are sexually stimulating?

Until a sister answers I did a quick google and found this link
http://www.artofseductions.com/top-100-things-that-attract-women-to-men/

Hair comes in 40th place. A beard is not even on the list of 100 items so it is safe to assume a beard has a negative affect on attraction.

Freiheit · 23-04-2010 03:29PM

That's actually an interesting link...thanks irish convert!:)

donaghs · 23-04-2010 03:33PM

Can the pro-clerical posters or fellow-travellers just come clean, and tell the rest of us if women's imodest behaviour and appearance could in fact have any affect on seismic activity? Or that we can't rule out the possibility?

oceanclub · 23-04-2010 03:34PM

irishconvert wrote: »

Bear in mind that this report comes from the BBC who are the British Government's propaganda machine and have a clear agenda to topple the Iranian government. I wouldn't rely on their intrepretation of what Hojjat ol-eslam Kazem Sediqi actually said.

Well, the original source is Iran’s Student News Agency ISNA:

http://en.irangreenvoice.com/article/2010/apr/17/1693

http://isna.ir/ISNA/Default.aspx?Lang=E

According to Wikipedia, this site itself is part-funded by the Iranian government:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Students_News_Agency

The conclusion is clear: the Iranian government has been taken over by the BBC and is briefing against itself.

P.

Tom Dunne · 23-04-2010 03:38PM

I think it's the same old story - selectively pick a "wacky" quote from some loon in a far off country while ignoring whackjobs on this side of the world.

Limbaugh is regularly parodied on The Daly Show (on E4) for the things he says. That show is worth tuning in for to see equally out there comments from ill-informed Fox News commentators.

oceanclub · 23-04-2010 03:46PM

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I think it's the same old story - selectively pick a "wacky" quote from some loon in a far off country while ignoring whackjobs on this side of the world.

Yes, indeed; BBC News never mentions the Catholic hierarchy, for example:

http://search.bbc.co.uk/search?q=vatican&tab=ns&order=date&scope=all

P.

Freiheit · 23-04-2010 04:22PM

Iran is a parody...a land where homosexuals are forced to have sex changes or face execution..doesn't surprise me that such people reign there...I feel sorry for the women though.

The Chessplayer · 23-04-2010 04:27PM

homer911 wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8631775.stm

Do you agree with this or do you think this discredits the Islamic faith? (Christian poster)

I think this hypothesis is entirely plausible.

The Recliner · 23-04-2010 05:57PM

Ok I have edited and deleted some posts

Can we stay on topic, the discussion of the realness or otherwise of Tom Dunne is not for here

ChocolateSauce · 24-04-2010 05:27PM

This particular statement doesn't discredit Islam, it merely discredits the guy who said it. Science have proven than earthquakes are caused by the movement of tectonic plates, not by immorality. That anyone even needs to say this......well, I lol'd when I read the story, and not in a nice way.

irishconvert · 24-04-2010 05:38PM

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

This particular statement doesn't discredit Islam, it merely discredits the guy who said it.

Look, the Sheikh was trying to make a point, but I think he made it in the wrong way. There are lots of stories in the Qur'an (and Bible) of Allah destroying people because they were doing evil. The Sheikh was making the point that sins committed by humans could be the cause of so many natural disasters nowadays.

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Science have proven than earthquakes are caused by the movement of tectonic plates, not by immorality

The Sheikh's point is Allah caused the earthquake to happen, it doesn't matter about the dynamics behind how it actually happened.

We don't know if Allah is causing these natural disasters in response to what humans are doing. But Allah created this world and everything in it, so he is more than capable of making an earthquake happen.

Promiscuous women cause earthquakes...

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