Can you be Homophobic and still considered to be a good person?

LegacyUser · 17-04-2010 02:18PM #1

I'll admit straight off the bat Im Homophobic. I dont want to be, I dont want to hate or dislike anybody. But I grew up in a very mans man kind of place where there were no gay people. Being called gay or queer was the ultimate insult anybody could level at you. So it really was something to be feared. Its only in the last few years Ive come to see how deeply conditioned I was to hating gay people. I thought everybody was like me but over the years Ive made a few inappropriate remarks about gay people that have resulted in stunned siliences. All of it joking on my part, trying to be funny, albeit at the expense of the gay community. Like I said I dont want to be homophobic, I dont want to be seen as the un-enlightened, gay hating biggott. Id like to change the way I feel but its very powerful. I feel very uncomfortable anytime a gay person comes near me and I feel like a bad person because of all this. Its affecting my own view of myself in a negative way. I dont like to think of myself as someone who hates. Like I said, I want to change but I dont know if this can be changed.

Is it possible to be homophobic and still be a good person? More importantly is possible to reverse a lifetime of conditioning? Thanks

LegacyUser · 17-04-2010 03:26PM

Well I suppose acknowledging the issue makes you a good person as you are aware of your short comings, but you should really keep remarks and 'jokes' to yourself. Head over to the gay, lesbian and bisexual forum and you will see that we're all the same. Life is too short for hating over something so silly. I would argue that you see gay people as a threat to your masculinity. Its easier to make jokes about gay people to reinstate to your peers that you are a heterosexual and now you are afraid of gay people as it does not conform to the stereotypical masculine world you live in. If you want to change it is possible, but you can't blame everyone else for your homophobia, you have your own mind and it's up to you to let loose a little and learn to see people for who they are not their sexuality.

dudara · 17-04-2010 03:32PM

Look, you may never like or be comfortable with the fact that homosexuality exists. That is fine - there's nothing wrong there.

Just have to good grace and sense to be tactful and thoughtful about it.

The fact that you aware of this issue is a good thing - it means that you are concious and self-aware. Who knows, as time goes on, you may get more comfortable with the wholel thing.

There are many things that I don't like in this world, but I still keep those thoughts to myself.

wylo · 17-04-2010 03:48PM

i was somewhat homophobic until my best friend came out, I took it well on the outside, but deep inside I felt really really weird, anyway as things went on we kept hanging around and now I completely even forget hes gay, its literally a sexual orientation , a gay person is the exact same as any other person.
To add to that, I have met many gay people since, and its nothing, honestly, its just they prefer the same sex.

That said, imo very camp people give gay people an image of being annoying and attention seeking when the truth is the majority have the exact same personality as anyone else.

Your not a bad person, just an ignorant person. Its completely ignorant to think that a gay person has something 'wrong' with them or is somewhat flawed.
I work with a guy who had 2 dads, this guy is happy, is straight (with a fine looking woman actually) and has been loved his whole life.
Its seriously ignorant to think gay people are wrong.

Do you think a person that absolutely hates black people can be a good person? Just wondering.

Taltos · 17-04-2010 04:10PM

I think actually you are to be applauded for admitting to being homophobic and asking if you are a bad person. Many folk just deny being bigots and claim that they are just like everyone else, as if that makes it ok.

I think the posts above really do cover it.
Another way to look at it is - why do you feel you have to make comments about any section of society, also why look at people as homosexual, hetrosexual or even bi - just take each person as they are - just like you did when you were a kid.

If you want to change - and I think posting here maybe you do, just take it in small steps - you have admitted your view is slanted - why not just change it - one day at a time. Just see people for being who they are - not what shirts they wear

banquo · 17-04-2010 04:23PM

It's the same as being afraid of spiders. You can't help it. It's a phobia.

As long as you treat people with the respect they deserve, and never withhold an opportunity from them because if it then sure, that's A-OK.

MagicSean · 17-04-2010 05:15PM

I'm surprised at the answers so far. Homophobia is not like a fear of spiders. It's bigotry plain and simple. You can't use your upbringing as a cop out. You're too focused on what they are as opposed to who they are. No different than being a racist.

Ickle Magoo · 17-04-2010 05:31PM

banquo wrote: »

It's the same as being afraid of spiders. You can't help it. It's a phobia.

Not quite...homophobia falls under prejudice and discrimination rather than irrational fear, in the same group as xenophobia, Judeophobia, Islamophobia, etc.

OP,

It is great that you have decided you don't want to be homophobic but surely the fact you know it is irrational and that it is mostly due to conditioning means it has already started to reverse?

Short of staring to befriend lots of gay people, I'm not sure what else you can do. Watch what you say and think about why you feel the way you do whenever the opportunity arises?

username123 · 17-04-2010 05:32PM

Nature_nuture wrote: »

I feel very uncomfortable anytime a gay person comes near me...

I think this would be something important for you to explore. Why do you feel uncomfortable when a gay person comes near you? Do you think they are going to do something negative to you? Are you afraid all gay men fancy all other men? Do you feel uncomfortable when a lesbian comes near you? What is it about homosexuality that makes you feel uncomfortable to be around a gay person?

blairbear · 17-04-2010 07:44PM

banquo wrote: »

It's the same as being afraid of spiders. You can't help it. It's a phobia.

I think this is a rather ridiculous statement. Spiders are not people. There is a WORLD of difference between the two "phobias". I refuse to even acknowledge homophobia as any kind of a condition, as that excuses it somewhat. It's just ignorance, pure and simple. I find it more equivalent to racism than arachnophobia.

I won't applaud you for recognising your intolerance but it is better that you are aware of it. Now you can try to change. I advise you to go to counselling for this, and in the meantime, try not to inflict any more narrow-minded "jokes" on people you know.

I DO think you can change though. My best friend is gay, and from a Muslim country. He finally came out to his friends from the same country, who live here, and although it took them quite some time to adjust, they now are as close to him as they always were and pass no judgement on his lifestyle..They don't delve into it in detail with him but they certainly don't condemn him or taunt him for it. And their beliefs were indoctrinated and extreme.

You need to really examine why a lifestyle which does not affect you in any way, shape or form, can infuriate you and inspire such hatred. You'll be a far better person if you manage to resolve this. As it stands, it is a very significant and undesirable character flaw in my eyes.

MagicSean · 17-04-2010 07:48PM

blairbear wrote: »

I think this is a rather ridiculous statement. Spiders are not people. There is a WORLD of difference between the two "phobias". I refuse to even acknowledge homophobia as any kind of a condition, as that excuses it somewhat. It's just ignorance, pure and simple. I find it more equivalent to racism than arachnophobia.

I won't applaud you for recognising your intolerance but it is better that you are aware of it. Now you can try to change. I advise you to go to counselling for this, and in the meantime, try not to inflict any more narrow-minded "jokes" on people you know.

I DO think you can change though. My best friend is gay, and from a Muslim country. He finally came out to his friends from the same country, who live here, and although it took them quite some time to adjust, they now are as close to him as they always were and pass no judgement on his lifestyle..They don't delve into it in detail with him but they certainly don't condemn him or taunt him for it. And their beliefs were indoctrinated and extreme.

You need to really examine why a lifestyle which does not affect you in any way, shape or form, can infuriate you and inspire such hatred. You'll be a far better person if you manage to resolve this. As it stands, it is a very significant and undesirable character flaw in my eyes.

I would agrre with you except for the jokes. I see nothing wrong with jokes about race raligion gender or orientation. I think they help normalise something which is considered diferent and make it more of an everyday thing.

tenchi-fan · 17-04-2010 08:15PM

Hi
I'm gay and most people I know aren't homophobic.. so you're in the minority.

I make un-PC comments about gay people. I know a lot of straight people who do too in a jokey way. But if you are actually homophobic you might want to avoid making comments that will come across as blunt and people will know (given how you feel) that you mean them! Don't even argue about the hypocrisy there.. it's just some good advice.

If you had a few gay acquaintances or friends your view might change. My dad though found out one of his best friends was gay and never spoke to him again.

Oh, and I can be a bit racist at times!! A lot of people have their prejudices but if you can't change you should at least keep your prejudices hidden.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 17-04-2010 09:04PM

OP there's no big deal here. You acknowledge your instant reactions are wrong and you don't want to feel that way. So just don't consciously act on them and everyone wins.

I reckon they'll only change if you know and like a gay man(i have a sneaking suspicion female homosexuality doesn't bother you in the slightest)

I think I used to have somewhat similar views as yourself. One of my close mates from secondary school came out though and after that I haven't had a problem with homosexuals.

dilallio · 17-04-2010 09:10PM

Nature_nuture wrote: »

Is it possible to be homophobic and still be a good person?

Good question. Ask the Pope.

Edit - thought this was AH

daveo90 · 18-04-2010 02:55AM

Poster I ask you this question:
Can you be a gay person and be good person?

Answer: Oh course you can, to hate someone for been gay is like hating someone because their black.

For me I class a good person as someone who is respectful to others. - what are you then?

People all have issues or problems it's a bad day when someone hates a person for something based on sex.

And you wonder why so many people are scared to come out to the world

LegacyUser · 18-04-2010 10:44AM

I have several gay friends (male and female) who I love a lot, but I have a strong dislike for butch lesbians. I have tried to fix this, I went to a gay bar with my gay female friends once but I hated it. I felt so uncomfortable especially because I was approached a couple of times at the bar.

Dudess · 18-04-2010 01:45PM

k_mac wrote: »

I'm surprised at the answers so far.

Apart from the spider phobia one, I think they've been spot-on. The OP actually doesn't seem that homophobic at all IMO - not only does he recognise his prejudice, he feels bad about it and wants to have more respect for gay people. I don't think the "But you're still a bigot, so feel bad!" approach is much use. He already knows he has a prejudice.

I certainly don't think he needs to go for counselling...

LegacyUser · 18-04-2010 05:31PM

Op going to go unreg'd for this, I am a little homophobic myself, but i have a number of gay friends.

Personally i think that there is are different types of gay people, there's the type who realises that they are gay, and gets on with their lives, This type of person i have absolutely no problem being around. I have an uncle who falls into this category and i love the guy, he's your typical manly man, he doesn't advertise that he is gay, and just get's on with his life. As he sees it, his business is his business.

The other type is the person who believes that because they are gay that they have to act like a woman, and be very loud about their sexuality. I have no time for these people and have to admit that yes i do feel very uncomfortable around them.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with my views, and have often made gay jokes in front of gay people who think they're hilarious, I find that the people who get offended at gay jokes are usually hetrosexual people. Which in my mind makes it even funnier, i remember one time my uncle who i've mentioned above made a very rude joke about homosexuals, and this woman went off on him about being homophobic, my did we laugh at that one.

I think the point that i'm trying to make is that while i think that there is nothing wrong with a person being gay, some gay people draw negative attention on themselves by the way the act, they can be quite abrasive and crass and if anybody calls them on it then that person is labeled as homophobic.

There is a very fine PC line that has to be walked, which i find ridiculous. Having read over this i think that maybe i'm not homophobic at all, maybe i just don't like loud abrasive and crass people.

Op i do sympathise with your position, but you have to look at the whole picture, do you firmly dislike all gay people? or is it just the type of person that would be very camp and loud about it? Would your opinion of a person change if you found out that they were gay, even though they may be the manliest person you know?

SerialComplaint · 18-04-2010 05:43PM

Nature_nuture wrote: »

But I grew up in a very mans man kind of place where there were no gay people.

Just for your information, about 10% of people where you grew were gay, just like anywhere else. They were just afraid to be open about it, given the prevailing atmosphere.

MagicSean · 18-04-2010 08:38PM

Dudess wrote: »

Apart from the spider phobia one, I think they've been spot-on. The OP actually doesn't seem that homophobic at all IMO - not only does he recognise his prejudice, he feels bad about it and wants to have more respect for gay people. I don't think the "But you're still a bigot, so feel bad!" approach is much use. He already knows he has a prejudice.

I certainly don't think he needs to go for counselling...

Dont think i mentioned counselling.

Scarinae · 18-04-2010 08:49PM

k_mac wrote: »

Dont think i mentioned counselling.

You didn't, but blairbear did

Dudess · 19-04-2010 02:31AM

k_mac wrote: »

Dont think i mentioned counselling.

Yeah sorry k_mac, I was referring to another poster regarding the counselling thing.

cafecolour · 19-04-2010 03:24AM

mememeee wrote: »

I have several gay friends (male and female) who I love a lot, but I have a strong dislike for butch lesbians. I have tried to fix this, I went to a gay bar with my gay female friends once but I hated it. I felt so uncomfortable especially because I was approached a couple of times at the bar.

not named wrote: »

The other type is the person who believes that because they are gay that they have to act like a woman, and be very loud about their sexuality. I have no time for these people and have to admit that yes i do feel very uncomfortable around them.

I might be splitting hairs, but I'd actually consider these more having issues with gender identity than sexual orientation. Ie closer to 'transphobia' than homophobia. I'd actually say that's more pervasive than homophobia in a lot of ways - it can actually be frequently be found within gay people as well.

I don't mind effeminate guys myself, as long as it's 'naturally' effeminate, if that makes sense. I'm not fond of bitchy at all, or of drag queen-esque type behaviors - they're welcome to them, but they're essentially stand-up routines, and it's not my type of humor.

not named wrote: »

Having read over this i think that maybe i'm not homophobic at all, maybe i just don't like loud abrasive and crass people.

That's a pretty easy test - just imagine the heterosexual equivalent - ie lads who are constantly ripping the piss out of their mates in a derisive way, and/or constantly commenting on the attractiveness (esp. in a sexual way) of the women they see in person or on the telly, etc. Do they rub you the wrong way as well?

As an amusing aside - while homophobia now means 'intolerance' of homosexuality, it was originally coined to mean an irrational fear of 'catching' homosexuality

cafecolour · 19-04-2010 03:28AM

OP, honestly, I'd say you'll grow more comfortable with time. I wouldn't worry about it too much, just keep pushing yourself that little bit outside your comfort zone, and you'll get there.

It's sort of like being raised very modest and then going to a nude beach. The first time, it's uncomfortable and awkward. The 10th time, you'd barely even notice.

Elle Collins · 19-04-2010 12:03PM

cafecolour wrote: »

As an amusing aside - while homophobia now means 'intolerance' of homosexuality, it was originally coined to mean an irrational fear of 'catching' homosexuality

That's close but not exact cafecolour. The term 'homophobia' was first coined by psychiatrists to describe a fear of the possibility of homosexual tendencies developing in the self. The word began to be used by gay rights groups in the 1970's to describe hatred or irrational fear of homosexuals themselves, and this new meaning has applied ever since.

OP, you are not a bad person and I very much doubt you find your own sexuality threatened. The issue here is that you find homosexuality itself distasteful. We'll, as a heterosexual woman, I'd find the idea of sleeping with someone of my own gender deeply distasteful, but it would never occur to me to be nasty towards a gay woman because of it. I think all you need to do is separate these two issues. There seems to be a problematic overlap in your attitude towards what you'd desire for you own sexual self and what other people desire. Really, I think separating these two issues in your own mind is all that needs to change. And don't be too hard on yourself; if you had a genuine hatred of homosexual people (as the current definition of homophobia describes) you wouldn't have posted this thread in the first place.

Reflector · 19-04-2010 12:31PM

Well in my opinion no, if someone makes homophobic comments I see it as a sign of some problem with themselves that they are trying to deflect from. I must say fair play for trying to better yourself and addressing this issue.
One thing you could do is that when you hear someone making a comment you could be the guy to stand up and say "no that's not right".
Picking on minorities and using them as punching bags is cowardly. Time to grow up I'm afraid.

LegacyUser · 19-04-2010 06:13PM

not named wrote: »

Op i do sympathise with your position, but you have to look at the whole picture, do you firmly dislike all gay people? or is it just the type of person that would be very camp and loud about it? Would your opinion of a person change if you found out that they were gay, even though they may be the manliest person you know?

OP here,
I think the above quote sums it up really, for me anyhow. I'm uncomfortable around the uber-camp gay people. I havent ever met any other kind of gay person to be honest........well maybe I have but just didnt know they were gay. So I guess my problem, more specifically, is with the guys who act like girls.
Thanks for the replies, some were really balanced and well thought out, others were just angry and hostile. Yes Im uncomfortable around gay people and I'll try to turn that around but prejudice and lack of understanding work both ways. I wasnt born homophobic, I was raised in that sort of environment. And when youre constantly surrounded by negative attitudes towards gay people it can have a powerful effect on a person, especially a kid. Gay people are born gay, so I understand its about acceptance. It was a genetic role of the dice. I couldve been born gay myself, I just wasnt. So I know its silly to be prejudiced against people for something they had no choice in. But nurture is just as powerful a force as nature. To be angry at people for being homophobic is just like them being angry at gay people for being gay. It solves nothing getting angry at people for the way they were born or raised. I accept responsibility for the way I am now even though it wasnt my call when all this started, when I was a kid. Thats not a cop out thats a fact. I will make an effort to change and hopefully I'll be able to undo a lifetime of conditioning. But like I said, it works both ways, getting angry at people who are homophobic wont solve or change anything. Its about understanding and acceptance, on both sides.

Aurora Borealis · 19-04-2010 07:00PM

It's whether you act on this phobia that would concern me much more. And if you do then, as with all other phobias that affect a persons life, I would recommend doing some work around it. Your acceptance of homophobia as something that you may need to address underlies a greater acceptance of homosexuality in itself if you ask me.

Can you be Homophobic and still considered to be a good person?

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