Mod split from "Gardaí alienating Public"

Stench Blossoms · 29-03-2010 10:57AM

I don't drink so am usually the designated driver on a night out.

I've been breathilized about 50 times. Only on one occassion was a Garda rude to me. It wasn't even rudness it was more trying to be a smart ass.

I had my front fog lights on without knowing. (Small spot lights) They automatically came on when I turned on my lights and the Garda proceeded to ask me questions about the current weather conditions like "How would you describe the weather this evening? Cold, hot, sunny, windy?". I assumed that he was just trying to determine if I had been drinking or not but at the end said "So if it's not foggy why have you got your fog lights on?"

I didn't see the point of the whole asking me questions about the weather when he simply could have asked if I was aware my foglights where on. (I wasn't)

The rest of the times I've come through check points the Gardai have been very professional and most of the time there's a bit of banter with the drunks in the passenger seats of my car.

I got stopped twice in one night about 10mins after the first time and told the Garda I had just been breathilized and produced the thing that you blow into. He said that he still had to breathilize me that for all he knew I could have had that from months ago.

Now when I was telling him I had already been breathilized I did say it in a rude/snotty way as it was 4am and I was pretty tired and just wanted to get home. But he explained the situation from his point of view which made me back down.

Another time I was stopped by a Garda who had previously breathilized me and recognised me and said "Doing the ole dessie again tonight yeh?" and I said yeh and he proceeded to let me go on.

The point of my ramblings above are that they are good and bad egg's everywhere. It's unfortunate that most Gardai get tared with the one brush but as someone else already said bad experiences always travels faster than good ones.

coach23 · 29-03-2010 10:43PM

tallaght01 wrote: »

I'm sure this view won't receive any sympathy here, but the opinions expressed in that article are how a lot of people view the polis.

It's all about a proportionate response. I hate the indo, and I suspect the author is a tool, but leaving a woman and a teenager on the side of a motorway with no footpath is pretty lame.

Meanwhile, my estate at home is being overrun by skangers who don't get touched. And people don't co-operate with the gardai because of their attitude to the public in many cases.

I got stopped by a cop here in Aus recently for a minor traffic offense. The guy dealing with me and his partner were totally sound (It was an admin error in the tax office, and I got my ticket rescinded). But even before they knew that, they were really cool.

So the convo involved me saying "listen you're doing your job. No drama. etc etc" when they explained what was happening.

In Ireland, my overwhelming experience is of up-front rudeness, which results in people being lippy back.

I think if the gardai were decent to people, then people would co-operate a lot more and wouldn't give them such crap. I think attitude is a huge issue in the force these days. It's the one profession where I've been consistently on the receiving end of sheer rudeness in almost every encounter I've had with them, which is really sad.

she broke the law by choice she chose to drive that same busy motorway she was left on while having no car tax she put the garda in the position to do his job and he did it shes upset she got caught thats all she then abused her position making the garda out to be a monster for doing his job and earning those wages she pays.

my doctor, bank manager, solicitor dont hug me and give me lollies if i miss a payment should i talk to joe about it or grow a pair and get over it life doesn't end cause a someone wasn't nice to you do i want them to? no i want then to do their job cause if their doing it to me their doing it to other people too the guards aren't their to be friendly they are their to stand up against the bad guy and you don't want a softly softly guy/girl who'll crumple when someone bats their eyelids for that you want councilors

People forget what the guards are for it is possible to be too p.c. you know

deadwood · 30-03-2010 10:15PM

gerire wrote: »

The law is equal
Evening Herald

"The house would have been searched in minute detail, which means that an officer would rumble the building in a tried and tested systematic manner.
Even the most private and personal places would not escape the gaze of officers.
Mr FitzPatrick would have been shown the warrant issued by a judge of the District Court, who would have heard sworn evidence from a member of the GBFI.
Mr FitzPatrick would have been told of the reasons for his arrest for an offence under the Theft and Fraud Offences Act, and cautioned.
It would be normal practice to handcuff the prisoner at this stage before putting him in the the back of an unmarked car and conveying him to Bray station.
The caution, administered by a senior detective, goes: "You are not obliged to say anything unless you wish to do so but that anything you say will be taken down in writing and may be given in evidence."
Mr FitzPatrick would be treated as any other arrested prisoner, be they prince to a pauper.
On arrival he would be taken into the custody suite and processed.
His name, address, date of birth and colour of hair, eyes would be entered in the custody record as well as any peculiarities, such as tattoos or earrings.
His shoe laces, belt and any item that could be used as a ligature would have been taken from him.
His possessions would have been taken and placed in a secure envelope for safe custody for his stay.
He would be then offered the services of a solicitor, which he could avail of or not. He would be able to nominate his own solicitor at his own expense.
At that point the former Anglo boss would have been put in a cell measuring about 10 feet by 12 feet.
These are rather drab places, but kept clean. In the cell is a stand-up toilet, a bed with a basic pillow and a grey blanket to keep the prisoner warm.

All his interviews would have been undertaken in a room fitted with audio visual recordings.
The questioning period would last three hours at the time and all the tapes would be removed from the recording machine afterwards.
He would have been asked to select a master tape which would then be sealed in his presence and handed to the sergeant in charge of the station for safe custody.
Two other copies would have been made under the same recording system. After six hours his detention would have been extended for a further six hours by a superintendent and, as is evident now, at the end of that 12 hours it was further extended for another 12 hours.
If he signed the custody record, his period of rest would be suspended between midnight and 8am.
During breaks in interviewing -- between midnight and 8am, he would have kept secure in his cell.
During the night he would have been visited every 15 minutes to ensure his safety and an entry would have been made to that effect in the custody record."

This is the kind of stuff they can't teach in Garda College.

They do? Oh. That might explain a lot, then.

30-03-2010 11:20PM

tallaght01 wrote: »

Well, I sure as hell don't get into people's faces when I'm working out if they're locked, professionally.

Well you don't have to stand up in court and tell a judge that you could smell intoxicating liquor, that somebodies eyes were glassy and their speech slurred.

hunnymonster wrote: »

so the approach is guilty until proven innocent, treated rudely until proven friend,.... mmm, doesn't happen in any other country I've lived in and I really can't see why it is necessary. If a member stopped me, said (s)he was checking for drink driving and would I mind if he leaned in closer then great, I would not have a problem, the situation was communicated to me, What was going to happen was explained. Pushing his face in front of me quite violently and suddenly is not appropriate imo.

No, the approach is to investigate first, hence the leaning in. And no member (I hope) would be doing this in a violent manner. Don't have to be right under your nose, just close to you.

Odysseus wrote: »

Well personally in the case I described I'm not going to waste my time or the ombussman's time on something like that. I was asking how much of an effort is put into it, but maybe you can't answer the particulars of that here.

Thats Ireland's problem. Moan to mates or on the Internet. If you don't complain about bad service / rude interactions then the problem will never be solved. As the saying goes in customer orientated jobs, if you are happy with our service tell others, if you have a compliant please tell us.

orla wrote: »

I had my front fog lights on without knowing. (Small spot lights) They automatically came on when I turned on my lights and the Garda proceeded to ask me questions about the current weather conditions like "How would you describe the weather this evening? Cold, hot, sunny, windy?". I assumed that he was just trying to determine if I had been drinking or not but at the end said "So if it's not foggy why have you got your fog lights on?"

I didn't see the point of the whole asking me questions about the weather when he simply could have asked if I was aware my foglights where on. (I wasn't)

This bugs the crap out of me. There is a switch which turns on the lights and an indicator on your dash. You will know when they are on.

Zambia · 31-03-2010 02:01AM

In the start of this tallaght01 highlighted the proffesional attitude of the ozzie cops. Here there is no need for a assessment the cops stops you and you blow. Their is no need for an explanation why the cop did the test. Hence they see no reason for chit chat to ascertain alchol.

Plus police here are always breadth testing the have 6 -7 guys lined up and a booze bus on site at the highway. The cops doing the breadth testing are normally very young and straight out of the academy they are all so happy to be cops they love talking to the public and have the training fresh in thier heads. They have a bin at each of their feet for the old tubes.

However that all said I do get to meet some real w**kers of VicPol cops too. That said unless they are consistantly w**nkers I dont mind it too much we can all have a bad day. To this date they never have been.

From what I gather here the most hassle appears at checkpionts. If we gave the gardai simple instruction to stop whoever they liked breadth tested whoever they liked. I would see no reason for chit chat or resulting "He/she was rude comments" .

AlekSmart · 31-03-2010 08:45PM

From what I gather here the most hassle appears at checkpionts. If we gave the gardai simple instruction to stop whoever they liked breadth tested whoever they liked. I would see no reason for chit chat or resulting "He/she was rude comments" .

Zambia232....do we not have a totally random breath testing regieme here (Irl) now ..?

I was under the impression that the entire "Forming an opinion of" bit was now finished with ???

Zambia · 31-03-2010 08:49PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

Zambia232....do we not have a totally random breath testing regieme here (Irl) now ..?

I was under the impression that the entire "Forming an opinion of" bit was now finished with ???

I am hoping you can tell me it is I have not passed through a Garda Checkpiont in 4 years...

I was stopped by the booze bus twice last night both experiences very cordial and pleasant.

31-03-2010 09:06PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

Zambia232....do we not have a totally random breath testing regieme here (Irl) now ..?

I was under the impression that the entire "Forming an opinion of" bit was now finished with ???

Section 4 of the Road Traffic Act 2006 allows for the setting up of mandatory alcohol testing MAT checkpoints where drivers will be selected at random for testing.

Section 12 of the Road Traffic Act 1994 allows for testing of drivers in certain circumstances.

And the alcolyser is only an aid for a member forming their opinion. The person will still need to be put on the intoxilyser or provide blood / urine.

Zambia · 31-03-2010 09:10PM

foreign wrote: »

And the alcolyser is only an aid for a member forming their opinion. The person will still need to be put on the intoxilyser or provide blood / urine.

Cool so there is no need for an excuse to alcolyse someone. Surely a fail on that is grounds to be taken for further tests?

I did not know that had come in, cheers for that.

Scan Man · 31-03-2010 09:17PM

I've had very few encounters with Gardai over the years, but in the ones I've had the major issue seems to be attitude and communication skills.

If any Garda reading this thread picks up one thing from it, in your next encounter with a member of the public try approaching with a normal attitude with the belief that you can get this person to do what you want without having to get aggressive or use force. Make use of terms "excuse me", and "please" and "thank you". It makes so much difference. Being assertive doesn't mean you've to be rude, but that you state your concern clearly but not aggressively.

How you start the encounter has a big impact on how it ends, and it seems that from my experiences, most must be trained to start in a hostile mindset or are simply told to establish there authority without any use of tact at the instant the encounter starts. If you take consideration for the person, it will save an awful lot of paperwork and court dates.

Since someone mentioned Traffic Blues, I have to say that Garda Eamon Roarty in Donegal provides good examples in dealing with the public. He comes across as assertive yet not overtly confrontational. Going in with the attitude that another person is "guilty" or doing something wrong, is just going to make them argumentative and turn them against all Gardai for a long time to come.

Overall, I think the Gardai have come on in leaps and bounds in attitudes and methods of dealing with situations in the last 10 years and I hope it continues.

31-03-2010 09:41PM

Scan Man wrote: »

I've had very few encounters with Gardai over the years, but in the ones I've had the major issue seems to be attitude and communication skills.

Scan, if you don't mind me asking, were these encounters anything to do with committing an offence? (Road Traffic?) And if so, if you got the attitude did you get a ticket?

tallaght01 · 31-03-2010 10:39PM

foreign wrote: »

Well you don't have to stand up in court and tell a judge that you could smell intoxicating liquor, that somebodies eyes were glassy and their speech slurred.

.

I've had to give statements to the police with a lot more details about someone's demeanor/degree of drunkenness than that, on quite a few occasions.

Scan Man · 31-03-2010 10:43PM

foreign wrote: »

Scan, if you don't mind me asking, were these encounters anything to do with committing an offence? (Road Traffic?) And if so, if you got the attitude did you get a ticket?

No they weren't related to RTA offences, as I don't drive. Most of the encounters would have been on town on nights out and that, even then I wasn't involved in any inappropriate behaviour (I usually quiet sober on a night out) but would have been around people who would be a bit boisterous.

I know the weekend night shift in most towns is probably the most horrible time for Gardai and you'd have to deal with a large number of eejits, but often the pre-emptive attitude often has a bad effect on people caught up in the situation. Normally once things calm down, I'm often the one who mediates in the situation and saves a Garda a fair degree of hassle. Whether calming down a drunk acquaintance and leading him towards the squad car or during my school years when dealing with lads who just wanted a go at the cops as soone as a squad car entered the area. The local JLO actually remarked I'd make a good Garda at one stage and I might take this advice when I finish college next year.

Coming in with an overly authoritative attitude isolates people (not saying all Gardai approach in that manner), while we all like to have importance, it shouldn't get in the way of what you want to do: get people to co-operate, in most incidents. There's tons of books written on communicating this alone, and I always tend to practice principles from Dale Carnegie's books, namely "How to Win Friends and Influence People" which I read ages ago. Of course, there's probably dozens of newer ones out now which are less waffley.

I'm don't say any of this to have a go at Gardai, but because I'd love to see a force which people could be proud of and confident of dealing with, whether on the roadside or when there's a crime. They shouldn't have to pause and think: will they take it seriously? Will I be put on the spot? Will I get hassle in future for highlighting this?

bravestar · 01-04-2010 12:20AM

Scan Man wrote: »

I know the weekend night shift in most towns is probably the most horrible time for Gardai and you'd have to deal with a large number of eejits, but often the pre-emptive attitude often has a bad effect on people caught up in the situation. Normally once things calm down, I'm often the one who mediates in the situation and saves a Garda a fair degree of hassle. Whether calming down a drunk acquaintance and leading him towards the squad car or during my school years when dealing with lads who just wanted a go at the cops as soone as a squad car entered the area. The local JLO actually remarked I'd make a good Garda at one stage and I might take this advice when I finish college next year.

Maybe you should get some new acquantances. I hardly think a Garda coming on the scene of a bunch of drunks having a go at eachother and entering the situation assertively to stop it, at risk to his own personal safety, is having a pre-emptive attitude as you put it.

"how to win friends and influence people" is not going to help you when your getting stamped on by a bunch of gougers, of which "Deco", threw the first punch because he thought you were a soft touch and wanted to show his mates how hard he is by "baturina copporrr"

While I can understand that an overly authoritative attitude, in the wrong situation, may escalate it and/or isolate people, it can also end the situation before it gets out of control.

Excuse me, please and thank you, a certain Garda from Traffic Blues, yes they should all be used during a traffic stop or similar situation. Its nice to be nice. But, given your example of when you have dealt with Gardai, why would you expect a Garda entering a potentially violent situation, knowing that if it kicks off he will become the focus of the aggression start asking people to excuse him and to please stop committing whatever offence under the public order act they are committing.

01-04-2010 07:41PM

Scan Man wrote: »

I know the weekend night shift in most towns is probably the most horrible time for Gardai and you'd have to deal with a large number of eejits, but often the pre-emptive attitude often has a bad effect on people caught up in the situation. Normally once things calm down, I'm often the one who mediates in the situation and saves a Garda a fair degree of hassle. Whether calming down a drunk acquaintance and leading him towards the squad car or during my school years when dealing with lads who just wanted a go at the cops as soone as a squad car entered the area. The local JLO actually remarked I'd make a good Garda at one stage and I might take this advice when I finish college next year.

I tried the soft approach with a lad acting the bollox at one of the festivals last year. Took four of us to restrain his with one garda ending up with a busted nose. Some people can't take responsibility for their actions but that is another thread.

Likewise, I've gone in aggressively and ended up having a laugh with the people that I have gone up to.

You just don't know what way things are going to go and you only have a couple of seconds to decide how you are going to deal with a situation that presents itself in front of you. Hindsight is great.

Stench Blossoms · 05-04-2010 03:27AM

foreign wrote: »

This bugs the crap out of me. There is a switch which turns on the lights and an indicator on your dash. You will know when they are on.

There was no 'switch' as in something I had to 'turn on' every time the car started. The fog lights automatically came on when I turned my dips on.

Yes there was a green light on my dash but since it was green I never paid a huge amount of attention to it.

Still doesn't excuse the Garda's rudeness.

MagicSean · 05-04-2010 09:59AM

orla wrote: »

There was no 'switch' as in something I had to 'turn on' every time the car started. The fog lights automatically came on when I turned my dips on.

Yes there was a green light on my dash but since it was green I never paid a huge amount of attention to it.

Still doesn't excuse the Garda's rudeness.

Do you know how hard it is to drive on backroads when some eejit is coming towards you with there fog lights on? If you don't know how to work your car properly don't drive it. There is a manual you know.

Stench Blossoms · 05-04-2010 10:03AM

k_mac wrote: »

Do you know how hard it is to drive on backroads when some eejit is coming towards you with there fog lights on? If you don't know how to work your car properly don't drive it. There is a manual you know.

Two front spot lights just above the bumper. Not full beams. Been through many a check point before and nothing was ever said to me about them.

Again, my stupidity does not excuse the Garda's rudeness.

BlaasForRafa · 16-04-2010 03:28AM

k_mac wrote: »

Do you know how hard it is to drive on backroads when some eejit is coming towards you with there fog lights on? If you don't know how to work your car properly don't drive it. There is a manual you know.

You see its attitude like yours that gives people a bad impression of the guards.

Reading through this thread its apparent from the comments made by AGS members that they don't seem to realise that there is a problem with the attitude exhibited by some members of AGS.

jill_valentine · 16-04-2010 03:57AM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Reading through this thread its apparent from the comments made by AGS members that they don't seem to realise that there is a problem with the attitude exhibited by some members of AGS.

Indeed.

Somebody suggested reporting problems to the Ombudsman - that's not the kind of issue being discussed, really, it's not a couple of tangible, isolated, investigable incidents. Rather, it's a pervasive and unnecessarily hostile attitude that seems both widespread and unrelated to the context we deal with them in.

I understand, as noted, that the gardai are obliged to do everything by the book, and that's drilled into them, but as another poster has pointed out, Australian etc. cops are no different, and they still treat formal courtesy as something that's simply a matter of course.

I've had to report a couple of crimes on a couple of occasions, and although in one case the Gardai were outstandingly awesome to deal with, in all other instances they were apathetic, if not weirdly confrontational, to a quite dispiriting degree. I've never been in trouble with the law, and I don't intend to change that at any point in the future, but I can't say I've had an entirely positive or encouraging experience of my interaction with AGS thus far.

discus · 16-04-2010 08:25AM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

You see its attitude like yours that gives people a bad impression of the guards.

Reading through this thread its apparent from the comments made by AGS members that they don't seem to realise that there is a problem with the attitude exhibited by some members of AGS.

Do you even know if k_mac is a Garda?

I'm with K_mac regardless. Some irritating cunts can't even learn how to turn on or off their fog lights in a car. On some roads round Ireland you can literally be blinded by an oncoming idiot who has their fog lights on unnecessarily.

I'm fairly certain that more than once it's happened to me that some idiot blinded me on the dark stretches of the Dublin-Galway road using fogs on a clear night. Particularly round craughwell where you mightn't see the car before you get dazzled by the lights.

And now, to the topic.

I've been up in Coolock Station a few times over the past weeks. I literally can't believe the **** that Gardai put up with on the front office. One lad came in with his family to sign on his book. About 15/16 at most, spent his time shitting on about how he told them to "fuck off" when he was in court. The dickhead spent his time drawing on the wall. Of course, none of the family bothered to say anything, and when a passing Garda spotted him doing it, it turns out it was his THIRD time caught in the past few minutes.

How does anyone keep sane working that office? The congregation that queue up for whatever seem to be the most vocal, ignorant dickheads I've ever come across.

Mod split from "Gardaí alienating Public"

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