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Do you identify with the "pink" label? Do you mind it?

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  • 12-04-2010 8:30pm
    #1
    Pink Adoptions
    Closed Accounts Posts: 121 ✭✭


    This thread raised a very good point: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055880218&page=5

    I think it deserves to be discussed separately.
    To not have to repeat the points already made, I will quote from the thread.

    What is your point of view?
    Pink Adoptions wrote: »
    This has been the occasion for intense debate.
    Do we go for the very "politically correct" acronym?
    How many letters?

    L,G? we all agree
    B? some are not sure
    T? very controversial, a lot of support group do not include them on purpose, as they are not always perceived (or perceiving themselves) as a sexuality. No one is even sure what they T should stand for: transgender, transexual, transvestites all fall under "T" but some of them do not want the others associated with them and/or cross-dressers who sometime identify with "T"
    Q?Q? Very american, stands fr Queer, for Questioning, for Queerious even, and is often duplicated as QQ
    S, A, for Straights/Supporters (SS was never suggested...), or for Allies

    We agree letteres were colder.
    Pink is cosier.
    Pink is also a very maternal color.
    And pink is a universal, though controverisial, color attached to the LGBT(...) community.

    So we know people may not like.
    We ask them to get over it... think about the real issues, and think about the children

    To everyone I asked: what better name would you have come up with? few can find a satisfactory answer. LGBTQQASAdoptions was not an option...
    Here are some of the options discussed we rejected:
    (we ruled out ".ie" domain, so Irish had to appear)
    - IrishGayparents (too limited)
    - TwoIrishDads (really too narrow)
    - IrishSameGenderParents (what about singletons?)
    - IrishSame-SexParenting (same as above, plus the word "sex")
    - IrishAlternativeAdoptions (what is the alternative: adopting or... not adopting? Gay ro straight? ; also there is an "Alternative Parents" group. "Alternative" can sound a bit like "not quite the norm". Our desire to adopt is normal, and we are not "alternatif". We aim at being mainstream!)

    And others I cannot remember or am not allowed to mention.
    Maybe in a year we will call for a competition to change our name :-)

    But we are not alone... and with BAAF we are in good company...
    http://www.pinkparents.org.uk/
    http://www.baaf.org.uk/res/pubs/books/book_pinkguide.shtml

    How do you feel about the "pink" label used by Irish Pink Adoptions 29 votes

    I can relate to "pinkness"
    0% 0 votes
    I see their point but I can't relate to "pinkness"
    13% 4 votes
    I hate all labels, call them "blank.com"
    34% 10 votes
    A long-winded technically accurate URL with neutral acronyms is best to create a sense of community
    31% 9 votes
    Rainbow
    20% 6 votes
    Tagged:


«1

Comments

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    #2
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,142 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I think it puts the emphasis on the 'adopters' when the emphasis should be on the child.


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    #3
    Dr. Baltar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭Dr. Baltar


    I just don't like the term "pink". For the same reason that I don't like "camp".
    It's a minority thing I reckon, but I thnk pink is a very feminine term and to put gay men under such a label only serves to further emasculate them in the eyes of society.


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    #4
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Why adopt a label imposed by those who imprisoned and killed people for being homosexual?
    That is where it comes from, it's either a reference to that or a reference to a certain type of female stereotype
    that of a young girl.

    Pinkadoption could well be about letting people who have had breast cancer or those who are predisposed to having breast cancer adopt.


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    #5
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Pink Adoptions wrote: »
    Pink is also a very maternal color.
    That about sums it up for me. I'm not a woman. End of.


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    #6
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Hang on I am a woman and a mother and I still have never identified with the colour pink. :P


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    #7
    MicraBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 916 ✭✭✭MicraBoy


    I'd prefer something more diverse than "pink".

    Rainbow Adoptions for example.

    And no that does not mean to adopt Zippy, George and Bungle :P


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    #8
    Tricity Bendix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,510 ✭✭✭Tricity Bendix


    Do I identify with the pik label? Nope

    Do I mind it? Not really, cus I'd never see it as applying to me personally. If others feel they can be identified as "pink" they can go right ahead.


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    #9
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,005 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Pink Adoptions wrote: »
    So we know people may not like.
    We ask them to get over it... think about the real issues, and think about the children :p
    So what's the point of this thread and poll? You've decided on a name and know some people don't like it but are asking them to get over their dislike

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #10
    azezil
    Registered Users Posts: 11,397 ✭✭✭✭azezil


    If someone ever labelled me "pink" I'd probably deck them. -_-


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    #11
    Chuchoter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Chuchoter


    Rainbow adoptions is way better. Pink is too...camp.


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    #12
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    crayolastereo wrote: »
    Rainbow adoptions is way better. Pink is too...camp.
    And raindow isn't camp. :rolleyes:
    crayolastereo wrote: »
    That about sums it up for me. I'm not a woman. End of.
    Actually for many years pink was considered a male colour. Women would dress their baby boys in pink clothing.

    Am I the only one who likes the name PinkAdoptions ? It has a nice ring to it and sure it won't please everybody but what will ?


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    #13
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Pink Adoptions wrote: »
    This thread raised a very good point: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055880218&page=5

    I think it deserves to be discussed separately.
    To not have to repeat the points already made, I will quote from the thread.

    What is your point of view?
    I'm wondering why results are private.


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    #14
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,005 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I'm wondering why results are private.

    Because the OP chose to make his poll private but hey now that I'm a mod I can see the results :D

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #15
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I'm wondering why results are private.
    I'm guessing they want some free market research. I've reported "Pink Adoptions", as s/he seems to think that they can dictate the course of threads; if they want their own forum they can ask the Boards.ie admins. Also, it's unclear to me how many people are actually behind the username, aside from the mysterious Andrew, whose "answers" in another thread didn't really answer anything.


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    #16
    Pink Adoptions
    Closed Accounts Posts: 121 ✭✭Pink Adoptions


    Thanks all for the interest in this topic.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I'm wondering why results are private.

    Because it is my first poll and I did not realize it meant no one could see the result. I though it meant name of voters cannot be seen...
    How do I edit to make it public? (And maybe add an option "Rainbow is better than Pink") Thanks for the heads-up.
    spurious wrote: »
    I think it puts the emphasis on the 'adopters' when the emphasis should be on the child.

    Any suggestions?
    The issue of such parents is that they are part of the LGBT community. So the group relates to the parents.
    It is a parents' group.

    MicraBoy wrote: »
    I'd prefer something more diverse than "pink".

    Rainbow Adoptions for example.

    And no that does not mean to adopt Zippy, George and Bungle :P

    Very good idea. We may switch at some stage. Rainbow was only ruled out by a vote, because it was too long.

    We are working on a banner that will be rainbow... so who knows...
    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    So what's the point of this thread and poll? You've decided on a name and know some people don't like it but are asking them to get over their dislike

    See above. The idea is to find out if we should change before it is too late, or if people have the faculty to get over it.


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    #17
    Pink Adoptions
    Closed Accounts Posts: 121 ✭✭Pink Adoptions


    Aard wrote: »
    I'm guessing they want some free market research. I've reported "Pink Adoptions", as s/he seems to think that they can dictate the course of threads; if they want their own forum they can ask the Boards.ie admins. Also, it's unclear to me how many people are actually behind the username, aside from the mysterious Andrew, whose "answers" in another thread didn't really answer anything.

    Market research is for people who have something to sell.
    A community is not a market :-D

    There is only one person on Board.ie
    Same on other forums. One person only per account. (That is why I specified that the answers provided were Andrew's, not mine)

    I though that it was in the ethics of any message board that the OP would remind posters of the original purpose in case it goes off-topic. I did not feel I was dictating. If I did I am sorry and I will try to be more tolerant of digressions.


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    #18
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,005 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I've edited the poll Are the poll results now visible to everyone?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #19
    Pink Adoptions
    Closed Accounts Posts: 121 ✭✭Pink Adoptions


    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    I've edited the poll Are the poll results now visible to everyone?

    They are visible when logged out, so I think they are now public.
    Thanks.


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    #20
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Do you think that by raising the awareness of LGBT parents that it will lead to more inclusion and lessen the anti family vibe which can be prevelant in the scene?


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    #21
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Pink Adoptions wrote: »
    Market research is for people who have something to sell.
    A community is not a market :-D
    You are representing an organisation; that you have nothing to sell is irrelevant.

    Pink Adoptions wrote: »
    There is only one person on Board.ie
    Same on other forums. One person only per account. (That is why I specified that the answers provided were Andrew's, not mine)
    If there is only one person on boards, then why did you have to get somebody else to answer? And on that, he didn't answer anything about your organisation, but rather a personal story.


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    #22
    Pink Adoptions
    Closed Accounts Posts: 121 ✭✭Pink Adoptions


    Aard wrote: »
    [...]
    If there is only one person on boards, then why did you have to get somebody else to answer?

    Because that someone else was happy to put their personal story out there.
    I am not ready to do so. It is a key part of our ethics that no information should be given that can "out" a member to the HSE or to anti-gay lobby groups, unless the person decides to do so in full knowledge of the consequences.

    Andrew is happy to talk to the media. I am not.
    Aard wrote: »
    [...] And on that, he didn't answer anything about your organisation, but rather a personal story.

    The thread was clearly asking for people to provide personal testimonial, real-life stories, short stories about LGBT people's parenting skills. (http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055880218)
    That is what he did.
    It was not about promoting or introducing our group.

    If it becomes relevant, I will be answering questions about the group, if I feel it adds value to a given thread.


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    #23
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Pink Adoptions wrote: »
    The thread was clearly asking for [...]
    It was not about promoting or introducing our group.
    Then why in God's name is your username "Pink Adoptions"?!

    Pink Adoptions wrote: »
    If it becomes relevant, I will be answering questions about the group, if I feel it adds value to a given thread.
    I think it has become relevant.


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    #24
    Pink Adoptions
    Closed Accounts Posts: 121 ✭✭Pink Adoptions


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    Do you think that by raising the awareness of LGBT parents that it will lead to more inclusion and lessen the anti family vibe which can be prevelant in the scene?

    I am not sure.
    That is why we welcome testimonials about the reaction of the scene to adoptions or parenting.
    To find out if once people become parent, they face a negative reception from the scene, or if people oppose parenthood for themsleves but not for others.

    The negative vibe may be mostly about:
    - People not feeling like they are parental material themselves. (Not all people will be vain enough to extend it to others)
    - People feeling their friends have less time for them once they are parents. (Same as on any scene! But real friends will not be selfish enough to proportionate their friendship to the amount of time you dedicate to them)

    So real friends will remain friends.
    Superficial friends are not a big loss if they are too vain and too selfish. They may be fun, but may not be reliable.

    But now that I think about it, it may be an indirect result, but only for people mature enough.
    I actually do not see much of a difference between the LGBT scene, and any scene of friends. (From school, university, work, etc.)

    The scene is far from being only made of superficial unreliable immature people. The latter may be more visible, and do "the rounds", which makes them more visible and more vocal. But most people on the scene have the maturity of their experience.


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    #25
    Pink Adoptions
    Closed Accounts Posts: 121 ✭✭Pink Adoptions


    Aard wrote: »
    Then why in God's name is your username "Pink Adoptions"?!



    I think it has become relevant.

    The username is the voice of the group on Board.ie, via one person only.
    The thread was not about the group promotion: it was an initiative from the group to initiate debate on issues relevant to us. :pac:

    See the difference?
    When we ask for personal stories, one of us provides a personal story, and if it is not me I make it clear that I am quoting.
    When we want to talk about the group, we mention it clearly, like in: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055880030


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    #26
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    There is predjuice, ireland is often behind other countries and the opting out of being gay cos you have had kids is still prevelant. I got called a breeder while out with my kids in town and we walked down to watch some of the pride parade.

    There is still as well a lot of biphobia too, I didn't stop being Bi and self iding as bi when I had kids.


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    #27
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    "We", "us", "the group" ... What's going on here?

    Pink Adoptions wrote: »
    ... it was an initiative from the group to initiate debate on issues relevant to us. :pac:
    OK — so market research, right?
    Pink Adoptions wrote: »
    See the difference?
    Not quite.


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    #28
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,005 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Some modding comments here

    I inadvertently messed up the poll because Pink Adoptions sent me a PM asking me to add Rainbow as an option - I thought that I might have an option of resetting it so that people could vote again - apologies to all concerned

    Aard has raised concerns about the posts of Pink Adoptions in a sense being too commercial and designed to promote a group or website. I'll discuss the concerns with Ixoy and Rainbow Kirby in detail

    Obviously advertising is against the charter - I think that Aard feels that Pink Adoptions is using this forum to advertise a group and/or website.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=71591

    I will discuss this with Ixoy and Rainbow Kirby - But can I just ask for now that the discussions on this point do not take over and derail the thread

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #29
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,978 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I don't identify with "pink" because it has a horrifically confused 'meaning' to it, ranging from people assumings it associated with stereotypical efetness to referencing the tags worn in Nazi times. Its not a gay symbol to be, erm, "proud" of either way.


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    #30
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,005 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Mod comments

    The mods discussed Ards concerns - we feel that "Pink Adoptions" has stated his main goal is to raise debate on the issues and it is perfectly reasonable and relevant to do so

    Therefore - can we keep the post on topic (not "Pink Adoptions" name or his reasoning for posting)

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #31
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,005 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    There was an attempt some years ago by some people at www.angrypotato.net to set up a broad organisation that represented gay foster parents, guardians etc - they did not specifically focus on adoption and also they used the name "families like ours" - this meant that hackles were not raised by using "gay" or "pink" etc and it was a really good broad term that was inclusive

    The OP might perhaps like to also register for www.angrypotato.net - they have private forums on parenting there (although they are not active regularly)

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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