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being able to spell = being intelligent

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,786 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    As long as we are having fun, it's all good. It's only the bloody Internet after all. :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    Yeah, I am enjoying this thread.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    1st wrote: »
    Him, not them.

    Sorry, i can't help myself. :D

    'I Couldn't' help myself' not 'I can't help myself' :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    or may not be using English as a first language.

    I think that is easy to guess however. Generally Eastern Europeans, while often fluent in writing English tend to have a problem with the definite article. I have never seen anyone jump in there and correct that.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,357 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Pittens wrote: »

    End of a list. Although that one is a debated subject.

    Jaysus, who'd debate grammar? :P
    1st wrote: »
    As long as we are having fun, it's all good. It's only the bloody Internet after all. :D
    Pittens wrote: »
    Yeah, I am enjoying this thread.

    er.. +2 0.o?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    'I Couldn't' help myself' not 'I can't help myself'

    I don't really want to agree with 1st, since he gave me a roasting, but either works.

    He couldn't in that post, or he can't ever, help himself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,659 ✭✭✭CrazyRabbit


    seamus wrote: »
    There's a difference between being completely unable to spell and being too damn lazy to bother re-reading your post.

    I proof read my posts 3 times before submitting. I still end up with lots of mistakes.

    My brain 'reads' it as correct, no matter how many times I go through it. I have to go away for a while, come back and read it again before I can see the mistakes. Hence the relatively large number of edits I make to my posts.

    And it's not just spelling. Sometimes I transpose entire words, or use words that don't have any place in the sentence (I could use 'that' instead of 'Throat'). I also frequently add double words like 'and and'.

    So, it's not laziness...it's just some mixed up wiring in my head. Thankfully, I've used to the collection of words I usually mess up, so I pay extra attention to them. I reckon most people here haven't even noticed the mistakes I usually make.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,493 ✭✭✭DazMarz


    Some of the cleverest people I know find spelling fairly difficult. Some lads I know who are science or mathematics majors (stereotypically the ''brainy'' or ''clever'' areas of study) and while they have no problem with maths or physics... Ask them to spell certain words and they start sweating like a dyslexic on Countdown.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭tc2010


    I proof read my posts 3 times before submitting. I still end up with lots of mistakes.

    My brain 'reads' it as correct, no matter how many times I go through it. I have to go away for a while, come back and read it again before I can see the mistakes. Hence the relatively large number of edits I make to my posts.

    And it's not just spelling. Sometimes I transpose entire words, or use words that don't have any place in the sentence (I could use 'that' instead of 'Throat'). I also frequently add double words like 'and and'.

    So, it's not laziness...it's just some mixed up wiring in my head. Thankfully, I've used to the collection of words I usually mess up, so I pay extra attention to them. I reckon most people here haven't even noticed the mistakes I usually make.

    Ive dyslexia (truthfully). But you know what they say......

    Pobodys Nerfect


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    this may be some reading :)

    Ok cool il give you a bit of info of my educational psycological report... easyist way. They use various test well when i was 14 and im 28 now, so the tests have probably gottin better with time!

    Back then they used the wechsler intelgence scale for children

    They do a full scale IQ test, verble tests, then they do performande and visual tests which are kincda like puzzels or picture where they ask you questions on what the person was wearing was the girl wearing erings that kinda thing..

    Then verble comprehension which I cant remember :o

    perceptual organisation whear you have to sort things out in a spechil order, that kinda thing. like say you have 9 squares that make a square but each ones a different colour, aand you have ten seconds to look at a chart then do it the same way..

    the there a freedom of distractability basicaly they ask you to do something then the person does things while your doing that to see if your getting distracted,,,

    then you have processing speeds which is to do with simple clarical tasks which Im terrible at..

    then they give you leteracy skills

    then spelling age equivlent when i was 14.5 i had the spelling ability of a 9 year old.

    reading comprehnsion test again i had the reading a bility of an 11 year old.. when i was 14..

    Il put it to you this way the test costs 1000 euros its 20 pages long with lots of percentages and expected to fail kinda things its pretty demeaning to read....

    If that answers ytour quest great if not sorry

    ok cool that helps alot. thank you

    so they carry out an aptitude test of sorts that is tailored to pin down learning difficulties? again im not trying to annoy people, but is there any scientific means of determining this condition, or scans that can pin point the cause of the condition?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,048 ✭✭✭✭Snowie


    ok cool that helps alot. thank you

    so they carry out an aptitude test of sorts that is tailored to pin down learning difficulties? again im not trying to annoy people, but is there any scientific means of determining this condition, or scans that can pin point the cause of the condition?


    Yeah well its the easyist way and probably the most affective, I went to 5 of those dyslexia tests before hand and they couldnt find a probalem...
    yet another man did... are you talking about more so neurological and sinapisis firing etc ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    Pittens wrote: »
    I don't really want to agree with 1st, since he gave me a roasting, but either works.

    He couldn't in that post, or he can't ever, help himself.

    Argree with him all you want, he is wrong though and so are you :)

    He had already corrected my Grammar when he wrote "I can't help myself..".

    So, it is grammatically correct to write "I couldn't help myself..", as what he had done, was in the past.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,688 ✭✭✭Kasabian


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    I'm dyslexic and you are spot on.

    Also, the Spell Check with Mozilla is junk.

    I have got one letter wrong on many many words and it will not be able to give me the word I need.

    I end up just Google'ing the word in frustration and they has never let me down, always finding the word were Spell Check couldn't.

    Google has been a lifesaver for me, when it comes to spelling.


    OutlawPete , just wanted to say that it is very impressive the way you have handled your dyslexia and the fact that you have use spell check and Google for your spelling requirements. Especially as you are one of the more interesting and enlightened posters on AH.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 387 ✭✭force majeure


    Being a dyslexia alki and a total dumbass means I can not for the world or indeed next weeks lotto numbers be off any use to this debate. :(:(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,048 ✭✭✭✭Snowie


    ok cool that helps alot. thank you

    so they carry out an aptitude test of sorts that is tailored to pin down learning difficulties? again im not trying to annoy people, but is there any scientific means of determining this condition, or scans that can pin point the cause of the condition?

    think this might help you to :)

    http://dyslexia.learninginfo.org/brain.htm


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭TPD


    Pittens wrote: »
    Does that mean you can't read it? I can, but it is clearly not as easy to read as a correctly spelt paragraph.

    :o

    I meant that 55% is a majority, saying "only x%" implies a low number, or at least a minority.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭del88


    I'm a really bad speller, but score high in IQ tests and would Have above average mathematical skills.
    Spelling only really measures one type of intelligence...
    The 9 Types of Intelligence


    1. Linguistic intelligence reflects the ability to read, write, tell stories, and learn languages, grammar, and syntax. Strengthen this ability by studying a new language, improving vocabulary, and writing.
    2. Your friendly computer programmer has logical-mathematical intelligence. She’s comfortable with numbers, logic, reasoning, and abstractions. To increase logical ability, get a book of logic games, knit a sweater, and learn computer programming. Or watch a movie on video, and stop it to predict what will happen.
    3. Those with strong musical intelligence are sensitive to sounds, tones, rhythms, pitch, musical keys, and structure of the songs (from verse and chorus to symphonies). Borrow different types of music CDs, sing with the radio, be quiet and listen to the sounds around you.
    4. Those with strong spatial intelligence can imagine, understand, and represent the visual-spatial world. They may have a good sense of direction, hand-eye coordination, and visual memory. Some people, for instance, can visualize how furniture fits in a room without measurements, or buy a scarf that matches the blue in a blouse at home (perfect “chromatic pitch.”) To strengthen your spatial intelligence, be a backseat driver and provide directions for a trip, fit the groceries in the bag or the car, play with jigsaw puzzles and mazes, build some Lego’s, or sculpt some clay.
    5. Remember Gene Kelly performing “Gotta Dance!” in Singing in the Rain? He had bodily-kinesthetic intelligence, as do athletes, builders, actors, or surgeons (if they have fine motor skills). Yoga is a great way to increase this ability. Make crafts or build, ride a bike, dance, and learn tai chi or other sports.
    6. Someone with interpersonal intelligence is good at organizing people and is aware of moods and motivations. He or she can communicate and lead well. To get more people skills, practice active listening—that is, repeat back what you think someone said. Learn about the types of personalities with the Myers-Briggs test (psychological preferences such as extraversion and introversion) or the Enneagram (a theory of nine personality types—possibly centuries old).
    7. Intrapersonal intelligence is the ability to be self-aware and explore emotions, goals and motivations. This perspective on the human condition is used by writers, philosophers, psychologists, and theologians. To improve your intrapersonal intelligence, “know thyself”—write in a journal, meditate, try the personality tests mentioned above.
    8. Individuals with green thumbs and “horse whisperers” have naturalistic intelligence. They are sensitive to nature and may easily recognize and classify species. To get more naturalistic intelligence, expose yourself to the great outdoors: plant a seed, volunteer at an animal shelter, take a walk with a naturalist at the park, read about classifications of animals (kids’ books can be a great place to start).
    9. Spiritual or existential intelligence fits all Dr. Gardner’s criteria except for association with a specific brain specialization—though this intelligence could be a whole-brain function. Those with this ability explore questions about life, death, and what lies beyond the subjective perspective. Prayer and meditation increase whole-brain communication and lessen the blood flow to the parietal lobes (which give a subjective sense of time and space). Explore what lies beyond through inquiry, reading, or talking with others.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    lonad wrote: »
    OutlawPete , just wanted to say that it is very impressive the way you have handled your dyslexia and the fact that you have use spell check and Google for your spelling requirements. Especially as you are one of the more interesting and enlightened posters on AH.

    Is PayPal okay for you? ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,688 ✭✭✭Kasabian


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    Is PayPal okay for you? ;)


    Ah your grand , just stick a euro in the poor box next time your in the shop.:)


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    think this might help you to :)

    http://dyslexia.learninginfo.org/brain.htm

    ok cool, so thats a somewhat decent explaination, ittalks the talk, but i wouldnt mind seeing the actual evidence of these tests.

    so if they do i theory know how to diagnose the condition, why do they give aptidude tests which are easily faked, given the large cos to the tax payer to facilitate the condition( for people who have it, no quibbles, but for the cons)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,786 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    Argree with him all you want, he is wrong though and so are you :)

    He had already corrected my Grammar when he wrote "I can't help myself..".

    So, it is grammatically correct to write "I couldn't help myself..", as what he had done, was in the past.
    In my defence, I'm doing it continuously, I can't help it. I can hardly be blamed for the lack of a continuous present tense in English.

    Gnáth láithreach FTW:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,048 ✭✭✭✭Snowie


    ok cool, so thats a somewhat decent explaination, ittalks the talk, but i wouldnt mind seeing the actual evidence of these tests.

    so if they do i theory know how to diagnose the condition, why do they give aptidude tests which are easily faked, given the large cos to the tax payer to facilitate the condition( for people who have it, no quibbles, but for the cons)


    my parents payed for every test and that was quite a lot of money...

    now as for faking it not possible there psycoligist that spechise in that area its not easy to fake how does some one who isnt dyslexic fake being dyslexic ?

    Those tests would catch out any one who was trying to do them out of it... but you have to remember the subject who was scaning would have to be doing something to show that there scans are working whish wouldnt be perticualarly possible.... or eas they know what there looking for...


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    my parents payed for every test and that was quite a lot of money...

    now as for faking it not possible there psycoligist that spechise in that area its not easy to fake how does some one who isnt dyslexic fake being dyslexic ?

    Those tests would catch out any one who was trying to do them out of it... but you have to remember the subject who was scaning would have to be doing something to show that there scans are working whish wouldnt be perticualarly possible.... or eas they know what there looking for...

    well from what i from my reading and i know one person for fact(well claims, maybe he doesnt want to admit it) but claims he faked it, seems like its pretty easy to diagnose it, not being an ass, but if your struggling with spelling and think you might be, will they turn around if you fail and tell you ' sorry mam, your child just isnt very intelligent'


    also on that point.

    if it is a real conditions, how does the treatment differ from a child with regular 'reading difficulties'?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    There is no absolutely excuse for poor spelling, grammar or syntax.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    I tutor adults with literacy issues, some very severe. Among them are some of the most intelligent people I have ever met. Spelling is a learnt skill, like all learnt skills some have a natural propensity and others find it very difficult or even have specific learning issues that hinders good spelling - it has very little to do with intelligence.

    In fact, I have found the way some people have learnt to cope with the inability to read or write and the ingenious ways they have managed to function while virtually illiterate far more impressive than someone with a large vocabulary and a good spell/grammar checker. :cool:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 573 ✭✭✭rgt320q


    It's not that I consider being able to spell a sign of intelligence, it's that I consider making a conscious decision not to spell correctly to be a sign of stupidity.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,763 ✭✭✭Sheeps


    rgt320q wrote: »
    It's not that I consider being able to spell a sign of intelligence, it's making a conscious decision not to spell correctly that I consider to be a sign of stupidity.
    Well, that's stupid.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    I think there are two different categories at play.

    One category contains the people who have a legitimate reason, and fair play to them for battling on and not letting it get in their way.

    The other is the bunch of people who are too lazy or who choose to use text-speak and other rubbish.......

    So the issue is the mentality and laziness; one group work hard to get as far as they do against the odds, and the other group are just lazy and annoying.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Giselle


    I would assume someone with a wide vocabulary, excellent spelling and grammar is better read, and better read people often appear intelligent.

    Which doesn't necessarily mean that they are.

    I don't assume that someone who has difficulty spelling is less intelligent, any more than I assume someone who has difficulty with maths, or reading maps, or parallel parking, is less intelligent.

    If someone introduces themselves thus...

    ''I'm Mandy, and I'm a Cancerian!''

    Thats when I start judging.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    orourkeda wrote: »
    There is no absolutely excuse for poor spelling, grammar or syntax.

    Are you serious?


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