Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

The Muppet · 09-04-2010 11:19AM

Ush1 wrote: »

All the more reason not to say it then.

More of a reason not to make an issue out of nothing comment TBH.

Ush1 · 09-04-2010 11:21AM

The Muppet wrote: »

More of a reason not to make an issue out of nothing comment TBH.

In fairness, the stereotypes you listed are generally positive. Ferguson clearly had negative connotations. Intimating Germans are cheats is not akin to calling Spanish technically good.

SlickRic · 09-04-2010 11:23AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Is the 6+5 thing actually happening? if so, when?

to be honest, who knows?!

i slipped it in, because it's always at the back of my mind that its a possibility.

my guess is that if it does become a rule, it won't be in before 2011/2 anyway - that'd be the very earliest. but as i say, i've no clue if it's actually being run with officially by FIFA.

The Muppet · 09-04-2010 11:24AM

Ush1 wrote: »

In fairness, the stereotypes you listed are generally positive. Ferguson clearly had negative connotations. Intimating Germans are cheats is not akin to calling Spanish technically good.

The point is making a comment about a Football team from any particular country should not be seen as a racist attack on the county, It is a just a comment of the style of football they play and the tactics they employ and nothing more. The guilty party in the sending off incident isn't even German.

keane2097 · 09-04-2010 11:25AM

SlickRic wrote: »

to be honest, who knows?!

i slipped it in, because it's always at the back of my mind that its a possibility.

my guess is that if it does become a rule, it won't be in before 2011/2 anyway - that'd be the very earliest. but as i say, i've no clue if it's actually being run with officially by FIFA.

Don't rules like that contravene EU law?

Mitch Connor · 09-04-2010 11:25AM

SlickRic wrote: »

to be honest, who knows?!

i slipped it in, because it's always at the back of my mind that its a possibility.

my guess is that if it does become a rule, it won't be in before 2011/2 anyway - that'd be the very earliest. but as i say, i've no clue if it's actually being run with officially by FIFA.

i would imagine if such a rule were to be implemented, that it would take a few years to do it - giving the clubs time to realign their squad and first team, it isn't something you can implement short term imo.

v3ttel · 09-04-2010 11:26AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

was looking at the current squad with regards to this rule for next season.

Very interesting to see what happens with the squad for next season.

As far as I know (from playing football manager!!) we can have 25 registered players, 8 of which must be home grown (in england as opposed to United specifically) and any players under the age of 21 on January 1st 2010 don't have to be registed (for the 2010/2011 season). (Premierleague.com article) a maximum of 17 of those players can be both over 21 and not home grown. For me, that would leave the current squad similar to the following if we make no further additions and no one else leaves.

Goal Keepers

Van Der Sar
Foster (home grown)
Kuszczak

Defenders

Neville (home grown)
Brown (home grown)
O'Shea (home grown)
Ferdinand (home grown)
Vidic
Evans (home grown)
Evra
De Laet (may qualify as home grown, not sure on the timing)

Midfield

Valencia
Nani
Park
Carrick (home grown)
Scholes (home grown)
Fletcher (home grown)
Gibson (home grown)
Giggs (home grown)
Scholes (home grown)
Anderson
Hargreaves
Tosic

Forwards

Rooney (home grown)
Owen (home grown)
Diouf
Berbatov
Chicharito

The following players can be additions to the squad, but don't need to be registered - only listing the standout more likely ones

Fabio
Rafael
Smalling

Cleverly
Matt James
Obertan

Macheda
Welbeck

Other players would be the likes of Petrucci, Eikrem, King, Evans, Gill etc - the younger reserve team players.

Looking at that list I have compiled, it ALREADY needs to be trimmed (and I could easily have forgotten somebody), without adding anyone to it. I count 28 players that would need to be registed from the current squad in order to play next season (with 14 of them classing as home grown).

Tosic, I imagine, is under the most threat. One of the keepers could be sold, with Ben Amos taking his place (not needing to be registered so doesn't take up a squad place). Not really sure what you can say beyond that. Looking at it like this, I reckon Diouf could be loaned out (to clear up the squad place) but I also reckon there is a chance Chicharito could be loaned out for a season too.

Any additions we make to the squad, unless they are young players, will require a senior player to be sold too.

I would also say that this could be a make/break season coming up for players like Obertan and Cleverley - players who don't have to be registeed this coming season, so are free additions in a way, but would need to be registered for the following season. I'm not saying they need to prove themselves as first team players, but it may be that they have to prove that they have the potential to be a season or so after - they need to show something this coming season I think.

I hadn't really looked to hard at the squad previously with regards to this issue, so I find it interesting how the age of the squad looks in terms of actual squad places and numbers.

I'd imagine that Foster will go, although hasn't PIG been saying that he absolutely needs first team games ASAP? Tosic definitely looks the most obvious choice to go. I'd imagine Diouf will be loaned out but I don't see whats the point in signing these players, leaving them fester in the reserves, then shipping them out on loan months later.

I'm not sure about Danny Welbeck either, is he really any better than Frazer Campbell or Ebanks-Blake? I'm not convinced....

Does anyone else think that Chicharito looks very similar to Giuseppe Rossi..small, fast, good finishing on both sides? I hope he gets a fair crack of the whip.

Ush1 · 09-04-2010 11:27AM

The Muppet wrote: »

The point is making a comment about a Football team from any particular country should not be seen as a racist attack on the county, It is a just a comment of the style of football they play and the tactics they employ and nothing more.

Fair enough and I agree. But blurting stereotypes that aren't really accurate is still just as stupid.

But I do agree it's not worth a whole lot attention.

The Muppet · 09-04-2010 11:29AM

Ush1 wrote: »

Fair enough and I agree. But blurting stereotypes that aren't really accurate is still just as stupid.

But I do agree it's not worth a whole lot attention.

Obviously it's not clever to make such comments but we humans have a tendency to say stupid things in the heat of the moment.

Headshot · 09-04-2010 11:30AM

Gill asked about more signings

We are planning for next season,' Gill told MUTV. 'We have already bought Chris Smalling from Fulham and we are very excited about him joining us in July. 'Let's see what happens. Watch this space

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1264759/David-Gill-Watch-space-Manchester-United-chief-hints-summer-signings-arrival-Javier-Hernandez.html#ixzz0kb7M4YjL

neil_18_ · 09-04-2010 11:34AM

Headshot wrote: »

Gill asked about more signings

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11667_6083128,00.html

Came here to post this. Too slow for Headshot

Spud83 · 09-04-2010 11:37AM

Again I wouldn't read too much into what Gill says. He knows exactly the reaction it would bring if he was to say there would be no more signings.

MementoMori · 09-04-2010 11:40AM

The 6+5 thing is utterly dead, mainly due to EU legislation.
This has been confirmed by Platini and UEFA.
It's dead, dead, dead and never going to happen.

The homegrown/club-trained/association-trained thing for the premier league which is pretty much identical to the rules for European competition (which have already been in operation this season) that are being brought is football's way around this.

I don't think it's likely to effect Utd, Liverpool or Arsenal all that much - it might affect Chelsea a bit but it's only going to be very fringe players

Basically if you are the 18th least valueable non club and non association trained player in the squad, you have a problem but you have to get a fair way down the squads for this to come into effect especially when pretty much all under 21 players are available as freebies.

Longer-term moves might be made to up the number of association/club trained players but the clubs have clearly been keeping an eye and it will probably mean prices for English players will go up a bit amnd

There was a thread earlier on about this that might be worth digging out.

Headshot · 09-04-2010 11:48AM

Obertan was pretty good last night now, gave the ball away some times but overall he was very good imo. Im not sure is it my imagination but he looked like he bulked up a bit too

Dave! · 09-04-2010 11:53AM

Woah, some absolute crackers in there :eek: Obertan's first touch was great, set him up nicely

Where are the reserves in the league?

Headshot · 09-04-2010 11:56AM

Dave! wrote: »

Woah, some absolute crackers in there :eek: Obertan's first touch was great, set him up nicely

Where are the reserves in the league?

top of the table on GD, city second

but we have 3 games in hand

Mitch Connor · 09-04-2010 11:59AM

MementoMori wrote: »

The 6+5 thing is utterly dead, mainly due to EU legislation.
This has been confirmed by Platini and UEFA.
It's dead, dead, dead and never going to happen.

The homegrown/club-trained/association-trained thing for the premier league which is pretty much identical to the rules for European competition (which have already been in operation this season) that are being brought is football's way around this.

I don't think it's likely to effect Utd, Liverpool or Arsenal all that much - it might affect Chelsea a bit but it's only going to be very fringe players

Basically if you are the 18th least valueable non club and non association trained player in the squad, you have a problem but you have to get a fair way down the squads for this to come into effect especially when pretty much all under 21 players are available as freebies.

Longer-term moves might be made to up the number of association/club trained players but the clubs have clearly been keeping an eye and it will probably mean prices for English players will go up a bit amnd

There was a thread earlier on about this that might be worth digging out.

as I discovered when writing my post earlier is that for United the problem isn't finding the players to fill the quota (as Liverpool had with the Euro list last season i believe, with Hyppia being omitted ) but that the squads may be too large already, and need to be trimmed down even before any summer signings are taken into account.

Mitch Connor · 09-04-2010 11:59AM

Headshot wrote: »

top of the table on GD, city second

but we have 3 games in hand

liverpool are close though, and they have two games in hand on us. 'big' game next week as we play liverpool.

MementoMori · 09-04-2010 12:00PM

Headshot wrote: »

top of the table on GD, city second

but we have 3 games in hand

Liverpool game next week

Given we won the previous encounter with ten men, I'd imagine a thumping is on the cards. Not really - Utd would be favs I'd imagine as most of Liverpool's best performers are either off on loan, injured or on the first-team bench at the moment.

Headshot · 09-04-2010 12:02PM

MementoMori wrote: »

Given we won the previous encounter with ten men, I'd imagine a thumping is on the cards. Not really - Utd would be favs I'd imagine as most of Liverpool's best performers are either off on loan, injured or on the first-team bench at the moment.

we were robbed a goal by the ref in that game iirc

getting the excuses out already MementoMori

nicklauski · 09-04-2010 12:04PM

Headshot wrote: »

[

Obertan was pretty good last night now, gave the ball away some times but overall he was very good imo. Im not sure is it my imagination but he looked like he bulked up a bit too

Yeah he doesn't look as scrawny. I believe the forgotten man Possebon had a good game last night. Would love to see him get back to the level he was at before the Boro injury and disaster of a loan spell.

Would what he thinks of Gabby robbing his chant.

MementoMori · 09-04-2010 12:07PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

as I discovered when writing my post earlier is that for United the problem isn't finding the players to fill the quota (as Liverpool had with the Euro list last season i believe, with Hyppia being omitted ) but that the squads may be too large already, and need to be trimmed down even before any summer signings are taken into account.

Yeah I get what you're saying - 25 does seem a bit small for the moment but I think that's part of an effort to push forward youth development seeing as under 21s are all essentially freebies.

I would presume that changes will be allowed to be made to the squad during the season - probably at least once (Jan transfer window) and there might be some provision for injured players [nothing to back this up just speculating]

I think that overall though while there might be some issues (mainly for fringe players) that the chances of there being significant impact is pretty minor. i.e I'm hard pressed to imagine it affecting any side's league chances.

MementoMori · 09-04-2010 12:19PM

Headshot wrote: »

we were robbed a goal by the ref in that game iirc

getting the excuses out already MementoMori

Was never a goal and a totally unjustified sending off;)

Nah we are really missing a fair chunk of the reserves compared to the first half of the season, especially some of the better reserve performers
I described the side who played Wigan on Wed as a reserve reserve side in the Liverpool match thread and it could be similar for the Utd match.

Might see some of the guys who are fringe first-teamers now i.e. Pacheco drop down but Spearing, Darby and Eccelston are all on loan while Kelly is out injured. There will more than likely be a couple of decent players in there - Gulacsi, Mavinga, LDV but there will also more than likely be a fair few who will probably be off with this summer or next once there contract is up - Bouwer, Mendy, Irwin.

Le King · 09-04-2010 12:42PM

RE: Villa story... How many times has Villa said he doesn't want to leave spain...

Another rubbish story.

Vanbis · 09-04-2010 12:48PM

Osu wrote: »

RE: Villa story... How many times has Villa said he doesn't want to leave spain...

Another rubbish story.

At 29 for €40million asking price is crazy, not worth it.

Mars Bar · 09-04-2010 01:13PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

was looking at the current squad with regards to this rule for next season.

Very interesting to see what happens with the squad for next season.

As far as I know (from playing football manager!!) we can have 25 registered players, 8 of which must be home grown (in england as opposed to United specifically) and any players under the age of 21 on January 1st 2010 don't have to be registed (for the 2010/2011 season). (Premierleague.com article) a maximum of 17 of those players can be both over 21 and not home grown. For me, that would leave the current squad similar to the following if we make no further additions and no one else leaves.

Goal Keepers

Van Der Sar
Foster (home grown)
Kuszczak

Defenders

Neville (home grown)
Brown (home grown)
O'Shea (home grown)
Ferdinand (home grown)
Vidic
Evans (home grown)
Evra
De Laet (may qualify as home grown, not sure on the timing)

Midfield

Valencia
Nani
Park
Carrick (home grown)
Scholes (home grown)
Fletcher (home grown)
Gibson (home grown)
Giggs (home grown)
Scholes (home grown)
Anderson
Hargreaves
Tosic

Forwards

Rooney (home grown)
Owen (home grown)
Diouf
Berbatov
Chicharito

The following players can be additions to the squad, but don't need to be registered - only listing the standout more likely ones

Fabio
Rafael
Smalling

Cleverly
Matt James
Obertan

Macheda
Welbeck

Other players would be the likes of Petrucci, Eikrem, King, Evans, Gill etc - the younger reserve team players.

Looking at that list I have compiled, it ALREADY needs to be trimmed (and I could easily have forgotten somebody), without adding anyone to it. I count 28 players that would need to be registed from the current squad in order to play next season (with 14 of them classing as home grown).

Tosic, I imagine, is under the most threat. One of the keepers could be sold, with Ben Amos taking his place (not needing to be registered so doesn't take up a squad place). Not really sure what you can say beyond that. Looking at it like this, I reckon Diouf could be loaned out (to clear up the squad place) but I also reckon there is a chance Chicharito could be loaned out for a season too.

Any additions we make to the squad, unless they are young players, will require a senior player to be sold too.

I would also say that this could be a make/break season coming up for players like Obertan and Cleverley - players who don't have to be registeed this coming season, so are free additions in a way, but would need to be registered for the following season. I'm not saying they need to prove themselves as first team players, but it may be that they have to prove that they have the potential to be a season or so after - they need to show something this coming season I think.

I hadn't really looked to hard at the squad previously with regards to this issue, so I find it interesting how the age of the squad looks in terms of actual squad places and numbers.

What is it, 6 or 7 pages later, it has been quoted 3 times and nobody noticed that you have Scholes in twice! :P

Le King · 09-04-2010 01:21PM

Vanbis wrote: »

At 29 for €40million asking price is crazy, not worth it.

€40M could get you Gourcuff for about €23-25M and Jack Rodwell with a few pound left over.

Mitch Connor · 09-04-2010 01:23PM

mars bar wrote: »

What is it, 6 or 7 pages later, it has been quoted 3 times and nobody noticed that you have Scholes in twice! :P

lol. 1 less player to get rid of for the 25man cut off!:D

Mars Bar · 09-04-2010 01:24PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

lol. 1 less player to get rid of for the 25man cut off!:D

My work here is done. :cool:

Vanbis · 09-04-2010 01:25PM

Osu wrote: »

€40M could get you Gourcuff for about €23-25M and Jack Rodwell with a few pound left over.

Rodwell i would like but not sure on Gourcuff. Diego from Juventus would be nice, if they wont qualify for the Champions League they may have to sell a few players.

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