Students must now pay to attend their own conferrings. Eh...what?

KnifeWRENCH · 04-04-2010 04:20PM

DingosAteMyBaby wrote: »

OK i am late to this thread but i read as much of the posts as I could without my head exploding. To be honsest it seems "Eliot Rosewater" is just arguing for the sake of arguing!! At the end of the day the fee has been introduced sneakily and without proper justification by the college. As others have said, we have recieved no explanation as to what the fee is being used for and to be honest we feckin' deserve one!! Argh im not going to go into it properly because it would just be a rehash of what everyone has argued before!! I just had to post something as i was getting quite annoyed by Eliots posts, which were borderline trolling IMO :eek:

I agree with pretty much everything you said, other than the last line. Eliot isn't trolling, he just has a different opinion to others here.
But if you have a problem with any post, please report it. Accusing another user of trolling is seen as backseat modding, which is frowned upon here.

DingosAteMyBaby · 05-04-2010 03:21PM

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

I agree with pretty much everything you said, other than the last line. Eliot isn't trolling, he just has a different opinion to others here.
But if you have a problem with any post, please report it. Accusing another user of trolling is seen as backseat modding, which is frowned upon here.

yeah trolling was a bit harsh, i apoligise. I have quite strong opinions on this topic and wrote the comment while still heated. The point i was trying to make was that Eliot's posts seemed quite biased and over-the-top and just trying to provoke a reaction from other posters by picking and choosing parts of their arguments! As you said his opinion is different to most other peoples so its bound to rock the boat a little:p So once again, apoligies, I wasnt trying to backseat mod!

robp · 05-04-2010 05:54PM

Mario007 wrote: »

look, and this goes to everyone, it's 65 euro. you'll spend more during a day of rag week or 2 nights out. so i don't see why everyone's protesting so vehemently about this.
in principle, ya its bad that we gotta pay, but we have the whole summer(at least) to get 65 euro.
with regards to the accountability, I agree. But you have a problem here, for example I can clearly see the amount of waste money that goes to the fees and grants office as the amount of laughter and chit chat everytime I go there is ridiculous. They're clearly overstaffed but the college can't simply sack them because of the Unions and even the SU wouldn't call for such a way to save money within the college because well...because it's a union too.
Also i do not agree my money goes towards the SU, someone might not agree with their money going to the Societies Guild or the Clubs Exec, but you are forced to pay it, but yet again the SU, representing the students will do nothing about money here.

So basically what I'm trying to say is that the college and the SU are pretty much the same. They force money from you, their only way out of a fiscal problem is to get more money, neither really represents the students and neither is accountable(well at least the university publishes its accounts)

This is one of most important points of this entire thread but really needs to be developed further. This "conferring fee" is only one of many fees charged to students. A breakdown of the registration and capitation fee will quickly charges that a great deal of students would be quite unwilling to pay. The UCC Chaplaincy costs students around 30-40, Societies-60+, the Mardyke several hundred and so forth. A many students never avail of these services, So should they have they have to pay these charges? If we remain consistent to this argument we could extend it to outside UCC and pose questions like Should hard working tax payers have to pay for artist's tax exemption? Should tax payers pay for social welfare...etc. Quite rapidly the argument exposes it’s as transparently selfish and short sigthed. The reality is that 65 euro is a quite reasonable and even paltry additional fee for what the university has given us as students. It’s not even compulsory!

Of course UCC should detail how they intend to spend the raised revenue (I can’t imagine the cost of a conferring ceremony requiring 65 euro each). Of course wastage in UCC must be addressed, as it needs to be in all areas of the public sector. This is where the SU could play a positive role for a change. Let reform for the sake of UCC's development be a rally point for the SU not petty student self interest.

daniel.ocarroll · 05-04-2010 08:53PM

SU considering having their own ceremony:

http://www.corkstudentnews.com/breaking-news/su-conferring-ceremony-on-the-cards-as-union-lobbies-donors-to-hold-back-on-donations/

Eliot Rosewater · 05-04-2010 09:03PM

DingosAteMyBaby wrote: »

yeah trolling was a bit harsh, i apoligise.

I appreciate that, there's far too many people on Boards.ie who will never apologize for anything they've done.

My libertarian views often come off as extreme. In terms of the status quo of political opinion in Ireland they certainly are. I do think I've given them a lot of thought though, and I am being genuine.

Esse85 · 06-04-2010 05:13PM

What the hell is the fee for?

How is it broken down......

Thats what annoys me, UCC have the cheek to look for it BUT did not explain why.

The money could be going on a new car for the president for all we know.

rebel girl 15 · 06-04-2010 05:35PM

Esse85 wrote: »

What the hell is the fee for?

How is it broken down......

Thats what annoys me, UCC have the cheek to look for it BUT did not explain why.

The money could be going on a new car for the president for all we know.

+1

I read on CSN that Keith O Brien will refuse to pay the fee and will try to attend the ceremony anyway

http://www.corkstudentnews.com/breaking-news/su-conferring-ceremony-on-the-cards-as-union-lobbies-donors-to-hold-back-on-donations/

robp · 06-04-2010 06:07PM

Esse85 wrote: »

What the hell is the fee for?

How is it broken down......

Thats what annoys me, UCC have the cheek to look for it BUT did not explain why.

The money could be going on a new car for the president for all we know.

According to a UCC spokesman, last year’s conferring ceremonies cost a grand total of €221,423. That figure would eat up 65 euro contribution per a student nicely. To be fair the capitation and registration fee aren't explained either. Unfortunately it has been left up to the express newspaper to break down these charges for student dissemination. I am not fond of the lack of initiative taken to explain them.

enry · 07-04-2010 11:09AM

I think you guys are dead right these charges of 65 Euros are a disgrace. I’m just slightly sad that you can organise such a well run protest over 65 Euros ( just listening to some student from ucc on the pat kenny show) and yet not one college not even one college student has taken to the streets in relation to how this country has been run. Hopefully you won’t have to pay that 65 Euros; if you don’t have to pay it my advice is to save it and use it for a plane ticket as I expect that over 50 percent of those of you whom are graduating this year won’t ever have to worry about working in this country.

Faith · 07-04-2010 04:15PM

There's an article in the Examiner about it today, in the 'Local News' section.

Byron85 · 07-04-2010 06:11PM

Also on Rte.ie now.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0407/ucc.html

Eliot Rosewater · 07-04-2010 06:30PM

Incoming UCC Students' Union President Keith O' Brien said: 'There has been no justification for this cost, no breakdown of what the €65 is spent on. Students already pay €50 for a gown and €30 for photos.

This is one of the things I'm on about regarding people wanting the authorities to do everything for them. The €50 gown and €30 photos don't mean anything major to UCC. Yet people feel they have some sort of entitlement to get conferred for a small amount of money, and they want the Government to orchestrate the economy so that this desire is upheld.

maglite · 07-04-2010 06:31PM

Now that this appear to not be an April fools.

Well done Mr UCC, You introduce yet another charge when the student body are too busy with exams and our representatives are outgoing, and away.

Also this €200,000 reeks of misrepresenting numbers, the hall is already there, there is no cost to rent it, the security are working as are most of the staff.

enry · 07-04-2010 07:11PM

maglite wrote: »

Now that this appear to not be an april fools.

Well done Mr UCC, YOu interoduce yet another charge when the student body are too busy with exams and our representitive are outgoing, and away.

Also this €200,000 reeks of misprepresenting numbers, the hall is already there, there is no cost to rent it, the security are working as are most of the staff.

The spelling in this is atrocious.

KnifeWRENCH · 07-04-2010 07:27PM

enry wrote: »

The spelling in this is atrocious.

Warning given.
Insulting another user's spelling is pointless and contributes nothing to a discussion. Don't do it again.

enry · 07-04-2010 07:52PM

My god what are you talking about, I am not insulting another user's spelling. Although I am suggesting that they use the spell check on their computer.

What are they teaching in cork, no wonder the large American companies believe Irish students are not up to the mark. I know it’s only a post but people should have standards.

samf · 07-04-2010 08:51PM

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

This is one of the things I'm on about regarding people wanting the authorities to do everything for them. The €50 gown and €30 photos don't mean anything major to UCC. Yet people feel they have some sort of entitlement to get conferred for a small amount of money, and they want the Government to orchestrate the economy so that this desire is upheld.

Actually the €50 gown and €30 photos do mean a lot to UCC, as they tender the contract for the 2 services to companies so take a nice bit of money from each of the companies. The "200k expenses of last years graduations" begs two important questions, a) does this take into account the money they make from the services (i'm betting it doesnt) and b)could the whole thing not be done for a lot cheaper instead of charging everyone the flat out fee? Like drop the frill's, move location if its expensive, hire less staff, etc.? A €65 all student charge should be seen as a last resort after all cost cutting efforts have taken place, and believe me, it wasnt.

Faith wrote:

There's an article in the Examiner about it today, in the 'Local News' section.

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/students-anger-over-graduation-ceremony-fee-116526.html
Keiths made a good point, the SU would be more than happy to organise the conferrings (though they'd take a fair bit of time and effort to organise), but the University would never let it happen as it would screw up their agreements with the photo and gown rental companies, and they'd have to come up with another unjustified €65 euro fee for something all over again!

maglite · 07-04-2010 09:24PM

enry wrote: »

The spelling in this is atrocious.

I most humbly apologise,

CantGetNoSleep · 07-04-2010 11:43PM

The American companies also discover that there are a lot of pricks in Ireland, another reason for them not wanting to come here

Byron85 · 08-04-2010 12:12AM

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

The American companies also discover that there are a lot of pricks in Ireland, another reason for them not wanting to come here

That's precisely why i'm such a conundrum to them. I'm a prick and a genius all in one; much like Dr. House. I've even got the chronic leg and back pain to go with it.

Papa_Lazarou · 08-04-2010 12:38AM

Dont start saying you are like house or i may slowly become slightly attracted to you :P

Must say KoB made some good points on the radio today.

captainspeckle · 08-04-2010 02:29PM

The argument that you "just have to pay and get on with it" is kind of annoying really. would you just go into a shop to buy lets say a bar of chocolate and the persone behind the counter says to you, "oh that will be €35, we had to raise the price of it." I am Pretty sure most people would like to know where this increased cost is coming from, so why shouldn't we ask questions about the cost of the conferring fee???

This just makes no sesne to me?!

I would also like to commenet on eliot rosewaters arguemnet that the college needs more revenue etc. Well I certainly hope that they dont wish to generate this from the conferring fee, because the clue is in the name. THis fee is to cover the cost of conferring, so I done understand the argument that this fee is needed in order to balance the books. To be honest reading through this thread has made me incredibly angry, the superior attitudes of some of the posters is actually sickening, an amount of money that is considered a lot to some people is a "pittance" to others and people seem to have no regard for the financial situations of others. The attitude that its time for students to pay is one that really infuriates me, all you need to do is take a look at the finances of our president or wander through many of the offices and epartments on campus to see the huge waste in resurces. Granted students must be expected to pay for their education, but I for one believe that third level education is already expensive enough and any more charges will lead to huge decline in the number of people attending third level.

*waits for Eliots Spiel on how we all need to take responsibility and we are a society of people who expect everything to handed to us........ yadda yadda yadda........ :mad:

kingstapler · 08-04-2010 07:22PM

captainspeckle wrote: »

Granted students must be expected to pay for their education, but I for one believe that third level education is already expensive enough and any more charges will lead to huge decline in the number of people attending third level.

Thats an excellent point, people have enough to pay for in this day and age without this sort of carry on. In fact, given that students currently enroled would not have been aware of this when they started you could even go as far to argue that they were misled into believing they had a free conferring after all those years of work and money put into their degree. They didn't sign up for this and it shouldn't be tolerated.

samf · 08-04-2010 07:33PM

Its getting good coverage at least - made the daily poll on the Irish times site today on http://www.irishtimes.com/polls/index.cfm - dont forget to vote no

kingstapler · 08-04-2010 07:46PM

samf wrote: »

Its getting good coverage at least - made the daily poll on the Irish times site today on http://www.irishtimes.com/polls/index.cfm - dont forget to vote no

Would anyone in their right mind vote yes!:D

ReacherCreature · 08-04-2010 10:15PM

kingstapler wrote: »

Would anyone in their right mind vote yes!:D

Just had a look at the link and 31% of people have!

kingstapler · 09-04-2010 01:19AM

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Just had a look at the link and 31% of people have!

I wonder now, how many how those who voted yes actually are in college or have family there. It would seem strange that anyone going to college would actually want to pay another 65 bob on top of all they've paid so far. As someone said, theres many the secondary school that can put on a good graduation ceremony and they wouldn't have half the resources a university would.

maglite · 09-04-2010 09:59AM

kingstapler wrote: »

It would seem strange that anyone going to college would actually want to pay another 65 bob on top of all they've paid so far.

Those that are in favor of fees...

I'm Pro fees but I dislike attempts at sneaking in additional charges.

Eliot Rosewater · 09-04-2010 01:11PM

Given that one of the main criticisms of Mr Murphys salary has been "look what they pay the president of <insert other college>", what do people here have to say about the fact that TCD charge €113 for their conferrings? Surely if we're being consistent then the UCC charge is fair because TCD's is higher.

captainspeckle wrote: »

would you just go into a shop to buy lets say a bar of chocolate and the persone behind the counter says to you, "oh that will be €35, we had to raise the price of it."

You don't have to buy the bar of chocolate, nor are you entitled to it just because you've graced the world with your presence. If a service provider wants to charge whatever price they want, they can.

captainspeckle wrote: »

Well I certainly hope that they dont wish to generate this from the conferring fee, because the clue is in the name. THis fee is to cover the cost of conferring

Not according to rebel girl 15, who said "I'll pay it if I know where the money is going, if there is a real reason for needing it - I refuse to hand money blindly over." So have the goalposts just shifted?

By the way, Ryanair charge a €5 credit card fee when its blatantly obvious they only pay Visa a few cent. They're allowed charge what they want, and if you feel its getting out of hand you can freely stop using their services.

captainspeckle wrote: »

I for one believe that third level education is already expensive enough and any more charges will lead to huge decline in the number of people attending third level.

Are you actually being serious? We pay a pittance for third level education in this country. €1,650 for a full year in University is nothing. Perhaps you should cast your sights abroad and see what happens there.

Also, the price of education should be determined by how much it costs to produce, not what you feel is fair. Why do you think the Government should pay your fees for you?

Manach · 09-04-2010 01:29PM

To respond to the chocolate analogy that Mr.Rosewater used (and to get a bit of revision in), we are beyond the invitation to treat stage. In that the conferring was an implicitly free event when an average student started his/her initial studies for the degree course. By introducting the fee after this starting point the chocolate seller is basically asking for more after he has already been paid. (I hope I can write clearly that this in the exam

)

Students must now pay to attend their own conferrings. Eh...what?

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