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Nine charged with irish teenagers death

123578

Comments

  • Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭ Maisie Straight Test


    Cianos wrote: »
    Well that's because it happened in America. It's obviously going to draw out some blanket remarks regarding that country and it's culture, and seeing as though the child was new to the country and from our country the cultural elements are actually quite relevant in this case. Someone who grew up within that social dynamic as opposed to being new to it would probably be better prepared to deal with the circumstances as they unfolded (read, would know their place :mad: )And as I said, no one is denying that bullying doesn't happen elsewhere.

    I don't see what was so different. Having grown up in various countries, I didn't find the social dynamic overly different from one place to another. American schools might place a bigger emphasis on things like clothes, because they don't wear uniform, but that hierarchy thing has existed in every school I've ever attended. I've seen that situation, where one girl dated a boy and other girls turned on her, happen with girls at the local convent school. My own school had a huge 'sporty people are better than everyone else' problem that the teachers encouraged. I don't think this is a particularly American thing. Sounds like the girl was very naive. She could have moved up to Dublin and gone to (INSERT B*TCHY GIRLS SCHOOL HERE) and had the same thing happen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Cianos


    [quote=[Deleted User];65178602]I don't see what was so different. Having grown up in various countries, I didn't find the social dynamic overly different from one place to another. American schools might place a bigger emphasis on things like clothes, because they don't wear uniform, but that hierarchy thing has existed in every school I've ever attended. I've seen that situation, where one girl dated a boy and other girls turned on her, happen with girls at the local convent school. My own school had a huge 'sporty people are better than everyone else' problem that the teachers encouraged. I don't think this is a particularly American thing. Sounds like the girl was very naive. She could have moved up to Dublin and gone to (INSERT B*TCHY GIRLS SCHOOL HERE) and had the same thing happen.[/QUOTE]

    Of course. But your experiences are hardly applicable to everyone. Some people may find the change to be unbearable. Others, like you, may not notice much of a difference from one place to another. You were probably lucky in that respect.
    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 348 ✭✭Drake66


    [quote=[Deleted User];65176370]Oh please. As if bullying doesn't go on in Ireland. It's terrible that this poor girl was harrassed to the point she took her own life, but it could have happened anywhere. Nothing described in the article sounds particularly out of the ordinary to me. Yes, high school girls (and some boys) are bitchy, vicious and cruel. Who knew? I have no doubt that Facebook and mobiles make it easier than ever for bullies to target their victims, but this is the case in Ireland as well.

    And as for the talk of life sentences, again, please. They didn't kill her. She killed herself. Sure, they sound like horrible excuses for human beings, but the last time I checked, being horrible to someone wasn't a crime. And I say this as someone who was bullied at secondary school for being 'foreign'. This story is only news because of the tragic outcome. Bullying of this sort goes on every day, in every country. Anyone who thinks it doesn't or this is an American thing has their head buried in the sand. The 'jocks vs nerds' culture might be less prevalent over here, but it was certainly very visible in my school. The rugby and hockey players were celebrated and protected by staff, free to bully those who weren't as 'cool'. I was able to stand up for myself, having grown up in Manchester and dealt with much tougher and scarier bullies, but I'm sure the more sheltered kids weren't.[/QUOTE]

    Don't be so dim: they were not charged with "being horrible to her", they were charged with criminal harassment, denial of civil rights, disturbance of a school assembly and statutory rape. All of which are on the statute book obviously.

    In fact the Massachusetts statute book states that criminal harassment is " Whoever willfully and maliciously engages in a knowing pattern of conduct or series of acts over a period of time directed at a specific person, which seriously alarms that person and would cause a reasonable person to suffer substantial emotional distress, shall be guilty of the crime of criminal harassment and shall be punished by imprisonment in a house of correction for not more than two and one-half years or by a fine of not more than $1,000, or by both such fine and imprisonment. Such conduct or acts described in this paragraph shall include, but not be limited to, conduct or acts conducted by mail or by use of a telephonic or telecommunication device including, but not limited to, electronic mail, internet communications or facsimile communications."

    A pertinent charge IMO considering the facts presented so far.

    And by the way, just because you yourself can pull out the hard man 'me so tough nobody bullies me' routine, it doesn't mean that this child could do likewise; you also forgot to consider that some of people charged so far were two or three years older than her. And that this, on the facts presented so far, was an organised campaign of intimidation and humiliation.
    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,299 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Precisely. These stupid idiots deserve everything they get. It may well be that they didn't expect the poor girl to kill herself but they still caused it. There is and can be, no excuse for that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    each one of them should get life, because thats what price that poor girl paid. And for the two rapists, i hope the enjoy a suprise when they bend over to get the soap in jail, because they deserve to be on the recieving end.
    What, 7 Lives for 1 :confused:

    What they did was Reprehensible and very Wrong. But I would not give them life. Theres a reason Juveniles are treated differently in the Legal System. And yes, Im well of aware of some of the horrible things Juveniles have done; knifing people for Pokemon cards and Slamming cats against brick walls [That was Irish, btw] - But there is still a difference between it being a child and an adult. A child's/teen's mind is still very impressionable: They are much, much more receptive to rehabilitation, and Guilt, even if its not immediately apparent.

    [quote=[Deleted User];65176913]Well, there is also a tone of 'aren't American kids so horrible' running through the thread. This isn't an American thing or even a kid thing, it's a people thing. I've discovered since leaving school that a lot of the bullies just turn into adult bullies in the workplace. Lots of people are just sh*t.[/QUOTE]
    Actually between 2006 when I joined Boards and Now, this is a pretty well fcuking behaved thread. Dont rock the boat. :cool:

    Perfectly fair to discuss the issue while wheighing the Culture Factors. So far we've seen none of the Bashing of Yesteryear. Just rational discussion.
    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 970 ✭✭✭Kirnsy


    [quote=[Deleted User];65176370]Oh please. As if bullying doesn't go on in Ireland. It's terrible that this poor girl was harrassed to the point she took her own life, but it could have happened anywhere.[/QUOTE]

    I don't think any normal thinking person presumes bullying is only found in certain geographical areas.

    [quote=[Deleted User];65176370] Nothing described in the article sounds particularly out of the ordinary to me. Yes, high school girls (and some boys) are bitchy, vicious and cruel. Who knew? I have no doubt that Facebook and mobiles make it easier than ever for bullies to target their victims, but this is the case in Ireland as well.
    [/QUOTE]

    If that's ordinary to you, you seriously must live a pretty tough life. No one should get that sort of treatment ever. Its attitudes like this that bullies thrive on "oh sure its just girls being girls/ teens being teens etc."


    [quote=[Deleted User];65176370]
    And as for the talk of life sentences, again, please. They didn't kill her. She killed herself. Sure, they sound like horrible excuses for human beings, but the last time I checked, being horrible to someone wasn't a crime. And I say this as someone who was bullied at secondary school for being 'foreign'. This story is only news because of the tragic outcome. Bullying of this sort goes on every day, in every country. Anyone who thinks it doesn't or this is an American thing has their head buried in the sand. The 'jocks vs nerds' culture might be less prevalent over here, but it was certainly very visible in my school.[/QUOTE]

    I'd agree with that.

    [quote=[Deleted User];65176370]
    The rugby and hockey players were celebrated and protected by staff, free to bully those who weren't as 'cool'. I was able to stand up for myself, having grown up in Manchester and dealt with much tougher and scarier bullies, but I'm sure the more sheltered kids weren't.[/QUOTE]

    You don't need to be from a tough area to be a scarier bully though.
    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    Cianos wrote: »
    From the schools website, the contact info for the principal;



    I think he should have a few questions and comments sent his way.
    I think there should be due process here. But agree school authorities have a case to answer for.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    This from last weeks Tribune. Principal still seems to be at odds with those who claim teachers witnessed the bullying and did nothing.
    In the state of Massachusetts, a storm is swirling. Its eye is a small-town high school. It has taken in a small house surrounded by a picket fence where a desperate teenage girl took her life, has shaken the state senate, and travelled across the Atlantic.

    Nearly one week after nine students were charged in relation to the suicide of Phoebe Prince (15), the aftershock and outrage has not abated. In fact, it seems, it has only begun.

    Parents and other members of the besieged community of South Hadley, which until now had not understood what it was like to be the focus of so much unwanted attention – much like the young victim herself – are slowly starting to round on those who might have helped, but didn't.

    Teaching staff at South Hadley High School are now at the centre of the controversy and are rallying behind each other in the face of rising anger in the community and growing demands that someone take responsibility for what happened.

    One parent, Luke Gelinas, a father of two, accused school superintendant Gus Sayer and principal Daniel Smith of failing to act quickly in bringing punishments against those responsible for Phoebe's death.

    "Change is not going to happen until we first have accountability," he said. "And I'm not talking about accountability from 15- and 16-year-old girls. I'm talking about accountability from grown men who were hired to do a job."

    Speaking to the Sunday Tribune last week, principal Smith remained defiant, insisting he had still to see any evidence that staff were aware of the problems but failed to act.

    The sideshow will be little comfort to the victim's family, who are not only coping with the loss of a child, but also with a whirlwind of publicity and intrigue.

    For Phoebe a new start in America was supposed to bring with it all the traditional promise of opportunity and life. The 15-year-old had lived in the Ardeamish area of Co Clare on the border of Lisdoonvarna, Doolin and Fanore. Her family had moved from England when Phoebe was two years old.

    Although well liked, Phoebe's parents were not heavily involved in the community and one local source described them as "bordering on reclusive".

    Phoebe's mother Anne O'Brien worked as a teacher and had taken up a post at the local Mary Immaculate Secondary School.

    Her father Jeremy worked in horticulture; locals admired the family's well-manicured garden.

    Last September, Phoebe moved to the US with her family from the Ardeamish area of Co Clare. Her family had moved from England when Phoebe was two years old.

    Arriving in South Hadley would have been an exciting experience for any impressionable young girl. Phoebe told her friends in Ireland that it was like living in a movie. The plot was about to take a tragic turn.

    Since its rise to infamy, the small town, located about 90 miles from Boston, has been described in several contradictory ways. It has been a "fairly grim, lower middle-class town" and a "well-to-do middle-class town of 17,000".

    But the most negative words have been reserved for the town's high school; it has been depicted as a sports-mad institution, and a nursery for America's Ivy League system, but also, in the minds of strangers, it has come to embody a cruel and hostile American education system.

    Hanging

    Some time during the afternoon of 14 January, Phoebe's 12-year-old sister discovered her lifeless body hanging in a closet.

    Earlier that day she had been hysterical, according to witnesses, and had visited the school medical officer. It had been another day of torment, during which she was pursued home and heckled, a drinks can thrown at her from a passing car.

    Phoebe's demise came partly as a result of her novelty – the exotic foreigner in the humdrum hometown.

    Her accent and good looks aside, testimonies from students suggest it was her popularity with the boys – and one in particular – that sealed her fate at the hands of a group of cruel and tenacious girls.

    She had caught the eye of Sean Mulveyhill, a senior and a school football star, and the quintessential American high-school heart-throb.

    Mulveyhill (17) had a history with another girl, Kayla Narey (17). Narey was reportedly part of the group that would soon have Phoebe in its sights. The tragic series of events was set in motion.

    Phoebe was targeted on multiple fronts; she was openly and persistently abused in school, labelled an "Irish slut", and physically attacked. The abuse never let up.

    But in today's world, bullying spreads through technology and Phoebe's suffering extended far past the gate posts of South Hadley High.

    Her phone number was circulated and she received countless abusive text messages. Facebook, the social-networking site that has transformed the lives of students, was quickly adopted as a means by which to ridicule her.

    After the girl's death, private services were held in her memory.

    An obituary, carefully released after the funeral, noted with dignity: "What her family and friends from both sides of the Atlantic grieve is the loss of the incandescent enthusiasm of a life blossoming."

    Soon the grief surrounding Phoebe's death turned to anger.

    An internet campaign circulated the names of the four girls believed to be principally responsible for the bullying, and a Facebook page was set up entitled "Expel the Girls Who Caused Phoebe Prince To Commit Suicide".

    The news that the Northwestern District Attorney would launch an an investigation sparked questions in the community regarding the role of the school.

    The debate, and pent-up anger in a town now the focus of international media attention, quickly grew and culminated in further angry calls for action last week.

    In a letter to parents days after Phoebe's suicide, the principal of South Hadley High said: "Some students made mean-spirited comments to Phoebe in school and on the way home from school but also through texting and social-networking websites. This insidious, harassing behaviour knows no bounds."

    It was an acknowledgement of what had occurred. But parents wanted to know what had happened to allow it occur. And anger directed at school staff began to take hold.

    On 2 February, the Boston Globe reported: "Parents and students furious at South Hadley school officials' slow and secretive response to the suicide of a bullied 15-year-old girl are expected to descend on the town hall tonight to call for the school chief to be fired."

    Superintendent Gus Sayer and principal Daniel Smith were called on to resign.

    Parents wanted to know why the students responsible were still attending class.

    The school promised that, after its own inquiry, those found to have been responsible would face "the most serious consequences" and added that students had already been disciplined.

    Finally it was announced that an unconfirmed number of students had been disciplined and would not return to the school. The term 'expulsion' was avoided on the basis of human rights being afforded to those in question.

    Anger

    Last week, the anger increased following claims that some staff members were aware of the treatment of Phoebe and even witnessed it, but did nothing.

    This is a claim rejected out of hand by Smith, who told the Sunday Tribune: "We have yet to be able to meet with the District Attorney to hear about the evidence behind her statement that two teachers 'were in the presence' of the bullying.

    "The US media has generalised from this statement that most, if not all, teachers witnessed the bullying and did not act – this is blatantly untrue.

    "At this point, we do not have any evidence that any staff member was aware of the bullying and chose not to act. If the District Attorney shares such information with us, we will obviously respond appropriately."

    As with many scandals, the failings of a system are exposed only when it is too late. Parents believe this was the case at South Hadley High but the school disagrees.

    William Adams of the school committee described Sayer and Smith as "two of the most qualified individuals I have ever met."

    Both men are well liked and respected; many parents, during a meeting at the school towards the end of February, gave Smith a standing ovation as pressure mounted. But the storm continues to rage.

    In the wake of the scandal, reforms were quickly put in place. There have been numerous meetings at the school in recent weeks on how to combat bullying.

    A taskforce was set up and, far more crucially, a legislative panel in Boston approved an anti-bullying bill in February. This defines and specifically bans bullying and requires state schools to put in place procedures to prevent bullying campaigns.

    In March, the Massachusetts senate voted 38-0 to approve the legislation. It will be Phoebe Prince's legacy.

    But there is no happy ending to a story in which one girl has died and nine teenagers face a variety of charges from statutory rape to the violation of civil rights and criminal harassment.

    And legislation will not abolish the wider problem of internet bullying. "This is a big problem," said Senator Robert A O'Leary, a sponsor of the bill. To identify such a problem is to lay down the gauntlet. But it is not tantamount to victory. In fact, noted O'Leary, the problem was "getting worse".

    http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/apr/04/flowers-for-phoebe-fury-for-the-friends-who-drove-/?q=phoebe%20prince


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    Update on Phoebe. The more i read about this, the more shocking it gets.

    http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/04/court_documents_outline_allege.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 462 ✭✭SlabMurphy


    This from last weeks Tribune. Principal still seems to be at odds with those who claim teachers witnessed the bullying and did nothing.



    http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/apr/04/flowers-for-phoebe-fury-for-the-friends-who-drove-/?q=phoebe%20prince
    My God for her 12 year old sisiter to find her hanging in a closet, their can be no words to describe it.

    Wasn't there a young girl in Cork a few years ago who hung herself because of bullying ?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    Yep. They had a documentary on that where her diaries were read out. One of the kids involved was still living in the area. They were a "problem" family so not much could be said to them by all accounts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭RMD


    I saw some article about this around the time of her death. Truly sickening stuff, even after her death the bullies continued to mock her and joke about her, acting as if it made no difference and they had no part to play in it what so ever. Even after this the school authorities didn't act on it and these kids were still free to roam around bullying others.

    I hope they're given the maximum for this, I hate bullies, they don't realize the damage they cause to others and the longterm damage they can do to people's lives.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    RMD wrote: »
    I saw some article about this around the time of her death. Truly sickening stuff, even after her death the bullies continued to mock her and joke about her, acting as if it made no difference and they had no part to play in it what so ever. Even after this the school authorities didn't act on it and these kids were still free to roam around bullying others.

    I hope they're given the maximum for this, I hate bullies, they don't realize the damage they cause to others and the longterm damage they can do to people's lives.

    It's apparent they've shown no remorse and are fully prepared to make her family suffer by pleading not guilty to any charges brought against them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    What the clip included in that link does raise is whether "Bullying" is actually a crime. And sure their defence laywers will work it that way. But I am aghast that school authorities are pleading innocence there. They should be totally ashamed of themselves.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    I'm sure the families lawyers will push for a conviction on some crime or another, like which was stated.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    I really would like to see the school authorites charged. From what I read in another article she begged that she be allowed stayed at home and yet that plea fell on deaf ears. Abuse was shouted at her in school library. Nothing happened. That school has an awful lot to anwer for.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    I really would like to see the school authorites charged. From what I read in another article she begged that she be allowed stayed at home and yet that plea fell on deaf ears. Abuse was shouted at her in school library. Nothing happened. That school has an awful lot to anwer for.

    School administration admit they have done wrong, but no one will face charges. What really needs to happen though is mandatory policy relating to Bullying. When bullying went on in my school it fell on deaf ears or the option was put forward to the student weather they wanted to do anything about it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Reminds me of this American case.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Megan_Meier


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    k_mac wrote: »

    Something similar in the line of charges, they can't charge them with bullying, but they were trying to pin privacy charges on her and some other cyber crimes like providing false information. She was acquited and she was a mother herself, and I ask, how could she do that to a child when she had her own.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    RMD wrote: »
    I saw some article about this around the time of her death. Truly sickening stuff, even after her death the bullies continued to mock her and joke about her, acting as if it made no difference and they had no part to play in it what so ever. Even after this the school authorities didn't act on it and these kids were still free to roam around bullying others.

    I hope they're given the maximum for this, I hate bullies, they don't realize the damage they cause to others and the longterm damage they can do to people's lives.

    I suppose that's typical "gang bravado", and unless they're all sociopaths, the feckers are probably not so gobby when they're separated from the pack.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭kelle


    SlabMurphy wrote: »
    Wasn't there a young girl in Cork a few years ago who hung herself because of bullying ?

    I think this could be the young girl you're talking about
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/teen-driven-to-suicide-by-girl-bullies-torture-1380632.html


    I'm getting more sickened by this as more details emerge! No matter what happens to these b**tards, it won't make up for what they did to poor Phoebe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭RMD


    Ye, realistically the most they can be done for is some cyber-crimes and harassment I think. Shocking to think most of these probably wont see double-digit length terms in jail yet they essentially murdered her.

    If they were remorseful, I'd have some sort of feeling for them, but the fact that they feel they did nothing wrong is sickening. Once they mature enough they'll have the burden knowing that they drove someone to kill themselves for the rest of their lives.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    Unfortunately there's not much that can be thrown at them with respect to the law. Legal teams seem to be trying there best to get those little fuckers into prison. Unfortunately in this civilised world, we can't hand out a good kicking and a means of letting them share in the misery Pheobe has felt and her family will continue to feel as they continue to remember her!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Little Acorn


    Just came across 2 articles I haven't seen before:
    Attorney wants Phoebe's medical records
    http://bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1246073
    The attorney for one of six South Hadley High School students accused of bullying Phoebe Prince in the months leading up to her suicide is asking for highly personal information about her, a move decried by a former prosecutor and victims advocates as “unconscionable.”

    In a six-page motion filed in Northampton Superior Court, Terrence M. Dunphy, the lawyer for Austin Renaud, asks for the names of any physicians, psychologists or rape counselors Prince saw; any medical and psychological records viewed by the prosecutor; details of any prior allegations of rape or abuse by Prince; and a statement as to whether her family had been the subject of a Department of Children and Families investigation.


    Aunt told school that Phoebe was "susceptible" to bullying,before she even started school.
    http://bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1245227
    “If that information is established as a fact, it clearly places increased responsibility on school officials to take extra precautions to ensure her safety,” said former prosecutor Timothy M. Burke.

    “That school officials knew or should have known, not just about her vulnerability but of an ongoing pattern of abuse, greatly increases the likelihood of success in a civil claim,” Burke added.

    Attorney Bradley Henry said the case might hinge on whether school officials gave Prince’s family assurances of her safety. “The more specific the assurance that Phoebe would be safe, the more likely it is that the administrators can be held liable,” Henry said.

    Although in this article they are saying that the fact that the school was warned beforehand that Phoebe was susceptible to bullying, should have made them keep a closer eye on her, I'm worried that the attorney who is trying to dig up everything from her past will use this as an example that she was somehow always emotionally fragile, to try and take some of the blame of the bullies.
    Do you think that Phoebes, medical and psychological records (if there even are any) should be allowed in court?
    I mean what purpose does it serve to request the names of any psychologists or rape counselors that Phoebe attended, when it was consensual sex (although statuatory rape), they just seem to be trying there best to dig up some kind of "dirt" on her, even after she's dead.
    I know it's only their job, but still bothers me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Just came across 2 articles I haven't seen before:
    Attorney wants Phoebe's medical records
    http://bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1246073




    Aunt told school that Phoebe was "susceptible" to bullying,before she even started school.
    http://bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1245227



    Although in this article they are saying that the fact that the school was warned beforehand that Phoebe was susceptible to bullying, should have made them keep a closer eye on her, I'm worried that the attorney who is trying to dig up everything from her past will use this as an example that she was somehow always emotionally fragile, to try and take some of the blame of the bullies.
    Do you think that Phoebes, medical and psychological records (if there even are any) should be allowed in court?
    I mean what purpose does it serve to request the names of any psychologists or rape counselors that Phoebe attended, when it was consensual sex (although statuatory rape), they just seem to be trying there best to dig up some kind of "dirt" on her, even after she's dead.
    I know it's only their job, but still bothers me.
    I can see how that might be deemed Unconscionable and Offensive, but I disagree. Just like a doctor is compelled to treat people for their own addictions, alchohol abuse, etc. - a lawyer is bound by The Bar Association, afaik, to Represent their client. And under The Constitution of Both Countries in any way party to this - those teens are Given a fair trial/hearing.

    thats always the problem with Journalism, The Internet and the Justice System. You may have already made your minds up but what goes on in the Court of Law may play out very differently.

    To withhold evidence, like her Medical Records, to guarantee an outcome that public opinion favors?! Thats the unconscionable stance, to me.

    Don't worry. Its not always about loopholes - This is a Homicide Case, not a Laptop Warranty. I don't think any of them will slide on some slight technicality. Even if she does have a history of depression or sexual abuse, that doesnt make it right, what happened to her.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Little Acorn


    Don't worry. Its not always about loopholes - This is a Homicide Case, not a Laptop Warranty. I don't think any of them will slide on some slight technicality. Even if she does have a history of depression or sexual abuse, that doesnt make it right, what happened to her.

    Yeah, that's all I was worried about, that they would somehow get out of holding any responsibility over something insignificant to the case. I agree that they are entitled to a fair trial, I just worry that they will try some sort of smear campaign against Phoebe. Some of the comments left under that article were suggesting that she was "promisucous" and that's why she got bullied, and also questioned why she got bullied in Ireland too, it seemed like they were trying to justify the bullying in some way and it pis*ed me off. I just hope that case just doesn't turn into a series of tabloid stories about Phoebe's past, that are not directly linked to the case.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    Just came across 2 articles I haven't seen before:
    Attorney wants Phoebe's medical records
    http://bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1246073




    Aunt told school that Phoebe was "susceptible" to bullying,before she even started school.
    http://bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1245227



    Although in this article they are saying that the fact that the school was warned beforehand that Phoebe was susceptible to bullying, should have made them keep a closer eye on her, I'm worried that the attorney who is trying to dig up everything from her past will use this as an example that she was somehow always emotionally fragile, to try and take some of the blame of the bullies.
    Do you think that Phoebes, medical and psychological records (if there even are any) should be allowed in court?
    I mean what purpose does it serve to request the names of any psychologists or rape counselors that Phoebe attended, when it was consensual sex (although statuatory rape), they just seem to be trying there best to dig up some kind of "dirt" on her, even after she's dead.
    I know it's only their job, but still bothers me.

    What bothers me is the fact that this will add to the suffering of her family.
    I rather suspect that if she had previously been diagnosed as being depressed, it could affect the outcome of the trial.
    In all honesty, whether the child had previous problems, or not, no-one has any justification to bully another human being.

    I hope her family find consolation, and that Phoebe gets the justice she deserves.

    Noreen


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Noreen1 wrote: »
    What bothers me is the fact that this will add to the suffering of her family.
    Believe me when my stepmum died after she was found hypothermic in a ditch, the toxicology report didn't help us grieve any.

    But you still just need to know some things.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    What is at issue is that this gang went relentlessly after her . Thats fairly obvious from the evidence presented so far.
    At no stage does it look as if any off them backed off (drink was thrown at her on the day of her death) or if school authorities make an attempt to intervene.
    I would thnk the case against both parties is very strong.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭Le King


    School should settle will some of the blame too.


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