I'm becoming unhappy with my karate club.

StormWarrior · 03-04-2010 09:06PM #1

I started karate about 3 or 4 months ago. When I joined, I told the sensei that I have shin splints and can't do anything that involves jumping up and down, as that makes the pain flare up again so badly that I can't walk properly. He said that was fine and I shouldn't do anything that will adversely affect me. I was glad to find out that the only jumping is in the warm up, where you're supposed to start off by jumping up and down vigorously for about 5 minutes. I would just march on the spot during this time. However, soon my sensei began insisting during the warmups that I jump. I keep reminding him of my shin splints, I don't know whether he forgets or what but he's always insistent that I join in. I'm often left in such pain afterwards that I can't walk without severe pain for a week. So this is the first thing I'm not happy about.

The second thing is the gradings. I went to my first last week. It was 4 and a half hours of non-stop really energetic karate, because we all have to participate in a 4 and a half hour non-stop lesson whilst the other people are being graded. Me and some of the other adults are really unfit and above our ideal weight. One woman fainted during the 4 and a half hour lesson. After about 3 hours, I could feel the blood draining out of my head and I knew I would faint soon, so I left the mat and went to get some water and sit down for 20 minutes, before returning. A few other people did the same, including a couple of black belts and some children. The next time I went to class, my teacher had a bit of a go at me for leaving the mats. I explained that I was unfit, lacking in stamina and had been close to fainting. He said that was no excuse and that if the little kids can last for 4 and a half hours without a break, then I could too. He knows full well that a woman had fainted at the grading because he was the one who attended to her when she collapsed. I'm so angry about this, first being told off like a child, and secondly for the lack of consideration shown.

Am I right to be annoyed by these things or is it expected in martial arts that you only listen to your sensei, not to what your body is telling you? I was really enjoying the actual karate, but because of the warm ups and the gradings, which will be every 3 months, I'm getting really put off from going. I now regularly skip class because I can't face the pain I'll be left in from the warm ups, and I'd rather never get a coloured belt than have to do another 4 and a half hour grading.

cowzerp · 03-04-2010 09:10PM

Bad coach from what i read off you, plus a danger to the participants, tough training is great but if people are fainting thats neglect, leave and dont waste your time with this chancer, there is other clubs that will take care of you out there.

StormWarrior · 03-04-2010 09:13PM

Unfortunately this is the only karate club anywhere near where I live, and I've already paid for a full year in advance.

yomchi · 03-04-2010 09:39PM

Most definitely a bad coach. Sounds like he knows nothing about sports specific warm ups, safe training or even people skills.

You've no chance of getting your money back i would say. Cut your losses while your body is still intact.

Ug Lee · 04-04-2010 09:13AM

StormWarrior wrote: »

Unfortunately this is the only karate club anywhere near where I live, and I've already paid for a full year in advance.

How much did you pay in advance if you don't mind me asking?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 04-04-2010 10:01AM

OP, dump your coach and look for another club (doesn't need to be Karate?) in your area.

Another little bit of advice I'll give you, look after your physical fitness outside of the club as, if you don't your going to find learning any Martial Arts a struggle - however that doesn't excuse your coaches actions.

What part of the country are you located, and have you looked through the club stickies in the forum for a club in your area?.

StormWarrior · 04-04-2010 10:29AM

I'm in the UK. The club I go to is the only club in my area, it covers the entire county with classes in 6 towns in the county. The one in my town has 3 classes a week. I've been to a couple of the classes in another town, the warm up is the same everywhere, they said it's the standard karate warm up for the whole country. However, in the other class they don't badger me to jump in the warm up. I just can't make it to that town too often.

I paid £325 for the whole year. You can go to as many classes as you want for that, in any town in the county, there are multiple clases every day but the only really convenient ones for me to get to are the 3 a week in my town.

I am starting to get into shape in my spare time, it's just a combination of having just finished university where I did no exercise for 4 years, plus a thyroid problem which is causing muscle weakness and tiredness, make a 4 and a half hour non-stop grading too much for me, and too much for many other people by the looks of it.

The thing is, aside from the warm ups, the gradings and being told off, I like the actual karate and I get on well with the other people in the club. Years ago I tried kung fu and I wasn't so keen on it. The only other martial arts club in my town is some weird thing I had never heard of before (can't remember what it's called now) and it's an inconveniently long distance away. I want to stay with this club, I just don't want to be told off or pressured into participating in things that aren't suitable for me.

Zen65 · 05-04-2010 12:42PM

Hi Stormwarrior,

It sounds to me that your instructor is not well versed in physical education, even if he is good at karate. It's unsafe to train so hard that you faint, and it's unwise to jump around a lot if you suffer shin splints. Maybe he doesn't grasp this, and maybe he is employing a tactic of reducing the class size through harsh criticism; after all he's got his money from you, right?

Normally I would advise that you find another club, or even another MA, but you've ruled that out. So here's an idea: Pace yourself. What I mean is don't put so much effort into the techniques, until you know you are fit enough to manage them. This is a compromise which I would be loathe to suggest in other circumstances, but you seem to be in a situation where the instructor is not catering for your level of fitness nor your injury, so take control yourself. Yes, he may criticise you for not showing spirit, but as you get fitter you can adjust your pace and effort, and incrementally push yourself harder at each class.

As for the jumps.... don't do them. There are kata which have jumps in them, but in each case it is possible to perform a non-jumping alternative move. There is no sense in training a defensive art which damages you.

Focus on the technical aspects of the karate. The centering of your effort through your abdomen (hara), the position of the hips, the breathing, your balance, the head position and so on. When you are not "pushing" yourself the opportunity to focus on these increases, so you can improve quite rapidly. In fact as you learn these aspects of karate the effort required to do "strong" techniques reduces, and you will find it easier to train.

One more thing,.... as you change your training to compensate for your instructor's lack of understanding, keep an eye out for a new club starting near you!!

Cheers,

Z.

YamaMotoYama · 06-04-2010 02:52PM

StormWarrior wrote: »

Unfortunately this is the only karate club anywhere near where I live, and I've already paid for a full year in advance.

You paid for annual club membership *or* for the year's classes?

Its very strange if you have paid for a years tuition in advance!

StormWarrior · 06-04-2010 05:08PM

You can either pay £40 a month, or £325 for the whole year, and go to all the classes for that. I paid for the year, I guess it's an annual membership. I don't think the teacher is trying to reduce the class size because he's got his money. My teacher isn't the owner of the club, the owner gives classes in another branch of the club in a different town. Anyway, as far as the jumping in class goes, I'm going to tell the teacher again that I won't be doing that any more because of the shin splints and if he keeps going on about it I'll either try and make it to the classes in the other town or ask for a refund (not sure if they'd give one but worth a try). I'm still not happy about the 4 and a half hour gradings though, if I need to have a break during another one and don't get graded because of it, I won't bother going any more. I'm really unhappy about all this as I do enjoy the actual karate but this stuff is making going to class seem like a burdensome chore rather than fun.

YamaMotoYama · 06-04-2010 05:20PM

Where are you based?

StormWarrior · 06-04-2010 06:54PM

In the UK.

snowcrazie · 07-04-2010 04:42PM

There is a syndrome that most men who do martial arts suffer from.... similar to a god complex. I'd say you keep going to your classes and just stand up for yourself. I've been in classes where I have fainted, where my sensei kncoked my out (accidentilt while trying to shock my into paying attention), I was winded by a forty year old man (I was a young female college student) and I've had my nose broken.... but I keep going becuase I love it. Stand up for yourself.

You get tired, walk to the back and sit down. (of course bow out first)
You need a drink, excuse yourself and get one.
You don't want to jump, do your own stretches while they jump.

If your sensei has a problem with any of this then - in front of the class - explain that your not feeling well or you can't preform that exercise due to medical reasons. He shouldn't talk back or persist with bad behaviour.

Sensei can be terrible, they always think they know best (as one my self i can say this :P) just remember you know whats best for you and your not in school, you don't have to do what your told if you don't think its good for you.

Zen65 · 09-04-2010 05:52PM

snowcrazie wrote: »

There is a syndrome that most men who do martial arts suffer from.... similar to a god complex.

Most men?? Is that not a very simplistic broad statement? I've met hundreds of men and women involved in martial arts, and most have been very sincere and modest people. I've met a few from the "god brigade" too, but they were always in the minority, and they included both men and women.

Z

StormWarrior · 12-04-2010 08:44PM

snowcrazie wrote: »

Stand up for yourself.

You get tired, walk to the back and sit down. (of course bow out first)
You need a drink, excuse yourself and get one.
You don't want to jump, do your own stretches while they jump.

If your sensei has a problem with any of this then - in front of the class - explain that your not feeling well or you can't preform that exercise due to medical reasons. He shouldn't talk back or persist with bad behaviour.

Well, one major problem with this. They say that although we have to do the 4 and a half hour grading each time, we are also constantly being graded on everything we do in class, and I mean everything. If I refuse to jump in the warm ups and leave the mats during the gradings, they can refuse to put me up a grade, and I'll always be stuck learning white belt moves. I actually really hate going now, I wish I hadn't paid for the year in advance. If I hadn't, I'd not go back. I really dread class days.

Zen65 · 13-04-2010 10:27AM

StormWarrior wrote: »

Well, one major problem with this. They say that although we have to do the 4 and a half hour grading each time, we are also constantly being graded on everything we do in class, and I mean everything. If I refuse to jump in the warm ups and leave the mats during the gradings, they can refuse to put me up a grade, and I'll always be stuck learning white belt moves. I actually really hate going now, I wish I hadn't paid for the year in advance. If I hadn't, I'd not go back. I really dread class days.

It is not uncommon to tell students that they are being graded on the basis of everything they do, but I have never encountered a club where that is intended to mean that you cannot protect yourself physically. The intention (in any club where I have trained) is that proper etiquette is followed i.e. discipline, control, respect for the Dojo Code, etc. None of this precludes a student opting not to jump in order to protect his injuries (of course, the instructor should be made aware of this before the class). I suggest you try to continue training, but at all times taking whatever steps are necessary to protect your injuries, and not to push yourself so hard that you pass out!! What's the worst can happen??? They ask you to leave?? I think as things stand you'll end up doing that yourself anyway. Stand up for yourself, train to get what YOU want out of it.

Z.

StormWarrior · 13-04-2010 11:55AM

My sensei says that the main thing I'm being graded on at this level is spirit, and if I don't participate fully in the warm up and I leave to have a rest during the gradings, then I am not showing sufficient spirit.

cowzerp · 13-04-2010 12:11PM

StormWarrior wrote: »

My sensei says that the main thing I'm being graded on at this level is spirit, and if I don't participate fully in the warm up and I leave to have a rest during the gradings, then I am not showing sufficient spirit.

ok if it means so much to you that you get injured, then do as he says, he is a moron at best-he is also leaving himself wide open for liability as he is getting you to risk injury even though you have pre warned him..

If you continue to train here then you deserve what happens..

Take the good advise and find a club that have your interests at heart

arybvtcw0eolkf · 13-04-2010 12:47PM

cowzerp wrote: »

ok if it means so much to you that you get injured, then do as he says, he is a moron at best-he is also leaving himself wide open for liability as he is getting you to risk injury even though you have pre warned him..

If you continue to train here then you deserve what happens..

Take the good advise and find a club that have your interests at heart

Paul, I couldn't agree with you more.

OP, I find it hard to understand why you've stuck with this idiot coach. I know you've sunk a years subs into the club, but you've said your prepared to lose it - do that and move onto another club, even if that mean's choosing another style. And do it before you've made more than just a financial investiment to this club & idiot coach.

If you stick it out, as Cowzer said - you deserve whatever happens.

yomchi · 13-04-2010 01:59PM

cowzerp wrote: »

ok if it means so much to you that you get injured, then do as he says, he is a moron at best-he is also leaving himself wide open for liability as he is getting you to risk injury even though you have pre warned him..

If you continue to train here then you deserve what happens..

Take the good advise and find a club that have your interests at heart

+ 1.

Don't let Stockholm syndrome take over

FruitLover · 13-04-2010 02:14PM

StormWarrior wrote: »

if I don't participate fully in the warm up and I leave to have a rest during the gradings, then I am not showing sufficient spirit.

I'd agree with this to some extent, but not to the point of physical injury. There's no reason you couldn't be given an alternative exercise to the jumping portion of the warm-up if you have a medical problem (although if it's that much of a problem, you should probably speak to a physio to try to get it resolved).

Your fitness level is your responsibility (and you should aim to improve this long-term to be able to keep up with the more intensive training sessions), but your instructor should be more understanding of someone who has just begun training and hasn't become accustomed to long sessions.

StormWarrior · 13-04-2010 03:18PM

I'm not, I haven't been in weeks, I want a refund but I'm not sure I'll get one. I don't want to waste hundreds of pounds.

YamaMotoYama · 13-04-2010 03:55PM

My advice is get your shins sorted before you sign up for any more classes anywhere... Karate is a physical activity and if you shins are at you that much, maybe you should have invested money sorting them before signing/paying up for classes.

(Sorry if I sound unsympathetic - but if you are in that much pain... surely signing up for Karate classes (and paying a year in advance) wasn't a good idea)

MysticalSoul · 14-04-2010 11:50AM

Perhaps get a doctors note stating the fact that you have shin splints, and can't do high impact activities such as jumps - it may help for him to take you seriously on this particular aspect anyway.

YamaMotoYama · 14-04-2010 11:51AM

MysticalSoul wrote: »

Perhaps get a doctors note stating the fact that you have shin splints, and can't do high impact activities such as jumps - it may help for him to take you seriously on this particular aspect anyway.

Or just go to the doc with your shin splints and get them sorted :rolleyes:

Jason McCabe · 14-04-2010 11:58AM

Is there any BJJ in ur area? This would not involve any high impact on the shins as most of the work is done on the ground.

StormWarrior · 14-04-2010 12:49PM

YamaMotoYama wrote: »

Karate is a physical activity and if you shins are at you that much, maybe you should have invested money sorting them before signing/paying up for classes.

(Sorry if I sound unsympathetic - but if you are in that much pain... surely signing up for Karate classes (and paying a year in advance) wasn't a good idea)

As I have said, the karate itself is not a problem at all, it is the 20 minutes of non-stop jumping in the warm up that is the problem, and he had agreed that I could sit that out before I joined.

FruitLover · 15-04-2010 10:06AM

StormWarrior wrote: »

he had agreed that I could sit that out before I joined.

Rather than sitting it out, I'd recommend doing alternative warm-up techniques (e.g. jogging on the spot). I'd also put forward that if the warm-up consists entirely of jumping around, your instructor has not done his homework. Activity-specific exercises should always be part of a warm-up (for example, I'll generally end a warm-up with some light kicks, slow lunging punches, etc).

YamaMotoYama · 15-04-2010 12:02PM

FruitLover wrote: »

Rather than sitting it out, I'd recommend doing alternative warm-up techniques (e.g. jogging on the spot). I'd also put forward that if the warm-up consists entirely of jumping around, your instructor has not done his homework. Activity-specific exercises should always be part of a warm-up (for example, I'll generally end a warm-up with some light kicks, slow lunging punches, etc).

Fully agree here - you should to be warmed up before doing any class.

There are plenty of non-impact excercises that should not aggrivate your shins... squats, push ups, step lunges, sit ups, resistance training, core excercises (the plank), tricep dips... and that could be attempted.

Any stretching will require to you to be warmed up beforehand.

StormWarrior · 15-04-2010 07:57PM

Anyway it's sorted now, I spoke to the owner of the club about it. He agreed that the instructor should never have pressured me to perform the unsuitable warm-up, and said that the instructor knew a different warm-up for people with leg injuries that he should have got me to do. He also said that I was right to take time out during the grading when I felt faint and no-one should be pressured to continue against what their own body is telling them. He apologised about that instructor and said he will refund me for the remaining period.

It's not only me who complains about that instructor, one woman has a neck injury from a car crash and complained to me that she was made to do unnecessarily dangerous things, and I saw him being far too aggressive with some students in class. For example, we were once in pairs practising a move where you bring your opponent to the floor. Every low-grade was working with a black belt and all of the black belts practised it with us safely so that weall performed the move properly and no-one got hurt. But the instructor can get very macho and OTT, and he grabbed the girl he was practising with and threw her down so roughly that she bashed her head really hard and had to be taken out for medical attention. He always insists that we be as aggressive as possible to each other, even the young kids, people often got hurt, like when he set 2 kids, a girl aged about 10 and a boy aged about 13, to spar against each other. The girl was new and very small, she was scared and didn't want to do it. The instructor insisted and as they sparred, the boy was getting rough and the girl didn't know what to do, the instructor egged the boy on until the girl ended up crying on the floor with an eye injury and was too scared to come back. Anyway I'm glad it's all sorted for me now.

hohojojo · 15-04-2010 08:22PM

i am sorry but i don't see were you are coming from with the grading you say you don't want to be stuck at white belt level but if your not ready for a grading which is your choice ie your unfit well then i would think your not ready to move up grade that was one of the first question i was asked when i started karate am i doing it to get fit or for grades my answer at the time was to get fit but now i do want the grade but i don't want to cheat and so i will not be even considering going until i am fit enough and ready

but i am sorry to say but as far as i can see you don't realise karate is a disapline not just a past time i know your instructor wasn't great but by the sound of your mails you just want to rush through when you are unready to move forward properly

i am sorry to sound unsimpatetic but untill you get your fitness up you might either want to wait for going for grade or just go to a gym and that way you no one will tell you what to do

I'm becoming unhappy with my karate club.

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