What do you think about Irish cycle lanes?

monument · 04-04-2010 08:22PM #1

Somebody within a cycling advocacy group recently said to me that councils claim they never get complaints about the quality of cycle lanes.

So, what's the view of cycle lanes of everybody here?

Vote in the poll and post any other comments you might have. Thanks!

ALSO: If you are including comments please mention where about your commute is, or if it's on-road or off-road cycle track.

Empire o de Sun · 04-04-2010 10:01PM

I have yet to come across a decent cycle lane that shares space with a road. They are usually too narrow, and if they are more than 1 m wide someone usually parks in it. They are usually full of chippings too.

Cookie_Monster · 05-04-2010 02:54PM

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

They are usually full of chippings too.

and rocks and glass and all the other bits that get swept off the road.

many are stupidly short too.

10-10-20 · 05-04-2010 03:10PM

This lark of running the cycle-lanes across the end of driveways so that they undulate is a complete joke (Leopardstown Rd, Leopardstown Racecourse to N11).
I have to go onto the road to avoid it, so end up getting beeped by some lamer in a vehicle (usually a Merc) too big for the lanes.

KevR · 05-04-2010 03:26PM

In Galway, I cycled Westside-Ballybrit (12km return journey) everyday for 5 years. Thousands of kilometres cycled, no accidents or near misses. There is a cycle path almost all the way (not a cycle lane, a path which is segregated from the road). It's really brilliant - I felt totally safe and didn't have to worry about the high speed traffic except when moving through junctions.

As for broken glass and stuff like that on the cycle path - I only saw it the odd time. I think I only got a couple of punctures in 5 years which is not bad.

tomasrojo · 05-04-2010 04:37PM

I posted this over on the Cycling forum. It more properly belongs here.

--

I hate them with a passion. My heart sinks when I see work beginning to add them to a perfectly usable road, as I know I'm going to start being harrassed by busybodies when I don't use them and I know I'm going to have to proceed very slowly when I do use them.

Nevertheless, I have only contacted Dublin City Council once on the subject, and it was just to tell them that they might reconsider the design of the two-way/contraflow on Inchicore Road, because it was encroached upon by buses and speeding cars so much, as well as being parked on all the time. They said that they'd sent an engineer and he's seen no speeding, no encroachment and no parking. Anyone familiar with the area will know he wasn't trying very hard.

After that, I never bothered again. I mean, why bother when you'll just be told that they know better than you?

sumone · 05-04-2010 04:38PM

In the draft final report of the of the Review of Cycling in Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown (produced by the council) the section on Leopardstown Road from Leopardstown Heights to the N11 says:

The newer measures show how poorly cyclists can be considered in new build. They also demonstrate both the lack of adequate understanding of cyclists' needs and the benefits to be derived from the use of a thorough cycle audit that looks at both strategic and site specific issues.

Elsewhere in the same section it says:
nevertheless they demonstrate the lack of status of cyclists and the ease with which their needs are set aside

This reports is dated February last year. There are plenty of other critical comments, as well as pointing out some good facilities in the county.

Capt'n Midnight · 05-04-2010 04:48PM

The red tarmac at the side of the road with a dashed line is NOT a cycle lane

Cars can drive in them at all times
and cars can park in the a lot of times too , PITA getting stuck behind one when the other motorists won't let you out.

short circuit · 05-04-2010 05:22PM

D15 to Sandyford ... have cycle lane for 75% of the way.
Navan road is OK. Stonybater has none. Christ church is ok. Down to grand canal is fine. Canal itself and all the way to Sandyford is actually quite good. Phoenix park also is usually OK early in the morning. Evenings are a bit touch and miss depending on how many walkers claim the space.

In the evenings, Ranelagh is a disaster with cars parked with their hazards on ... I am going in for a wee bit excuses. Huntstown road in D15 is a disaster due to bad design.

So mixed bag there ...

Mint Sauce · 05-04-2010 06:01PM

couple near me, one along a section of main road outside sligo IT, a marked section, red tarmac, etc, roughly about 1/2 km long, seperated from the main road by kerb stones, wide enough for two lanes, but very poorly kept, full of weeds and debres, and often have to slow down due walkers even though there is also a seperate pavement there as well, i usally keep to the main road

also a shared lane around sligo race course, again here usally keep to the main road, bassically having to slow down for walkers who stray over the painted line into the cycling section

another couple of short shared sections on one or two of the approach roads to town but again, cycle in the road for above reasons

all my cycling (when doing it

) is road training/exercise

Cianos · 06-04-2010 12:12AM

The one thing I hate about cycle lanes in this country, (as every other country I've cycled in seems to have the care and attentiveness to deal with it) is the way they don't smooth down the curb where the path meets the road. Having to hop your bike up on to every path is cumbersome and slow. If there wasn't a need to do this, more people would cycle as it does take a fair bit of agility to avoid having to slow right down every time you are going from a road piece back on to the path via the ridge of the curb.

Breezer · 06-04-2010 12:32AM

The one in Donnybrook heading south towards UCD is lethal, literally. It was stuck into an existing traffic lane, which was already fairly narrow, and takes up nearly half the lane. It's also not even marked out with purple paint, just a broken white line.

The last time I used it (in broad daylight, wearing a bright yellow cycling jacket), I was knocked off my bike by a van driver who didn't move out far enough into the second lane. I fell into the middle of the road, and had there been anything behind the van (a 46a bus for example) I could have been seriously injured or killed.

Disgrace.

BostonB · 06-04-2010 12:33AM

If I post here I'm just duplicating what I'd posted in the cycling forum.

In summary though, some lanes are ok. But the majority are done so poorly as to be unusable.

smackyB · 06-04-2010 11:49AM

Breezer wrote: »

The one in Donnybrook heading south towards UCD is lethal, literally. It was stuck into an existing traffic lane, which was already fairly narrow, and takes up nearly half the lane. It's also not even marked out with purple paint, just a broken white line.

The last time I used it (in broad daylight, wearing a bright yellow cycling jacket), I was knocked off my bike by a van driver who didn't move out far enough into the second lane. I fell into the middle of the road, and had there been anything behind the van (a 46a bus for example) I could have been seriously injured or killed.

Disgrace.

Yeh, Donnybrook is very dangerous for cyclists. I try to avoid it as much as possible. Northbound is equally bad, some nasty potholes near the pedestrian lights there.

doozerie · 06-04-2010 12:33PM

Also a repeat of what I've written in the cycling forum but I believe that, on balance, cycle lanes are a bad idea. There isn't any option in the poll above to express that though so I've opted for the "generally very poor" option which is the closest of the options to my preferred vote of "please get rid of them".

There are some cycle lanes that happen to be located where I'd position me+bike on the road anyway and in those cases I end up simply using them by default. Those lanes do offer some benefit to me as they provide at least some visual cues to other road users to expect a cyclist on that stretch of road. However, those lanes are vastly outnumbered by lanes that: place me on the inside of a left-only turning lane regardless of the fact that I may be going straight on; place me on the outer lane of a roundabout regardless of which exit I wish to take; place me on a shared footpath, with bus stops, where pedestrians don't expect to encounter bikes; take me away from the main road down a side road where I now have to cross as a pedestrian before rejoining the main road again; take me away from the lane that I'd need to be in in order to make a right turn safely; etc.

The benefits of the minority of useful cycle tracks do not come close to outweighing the risks posed to me by other road users automatically assuming that I'll never be anywhere on the road other than in the cycle lane. I believe there is more awareness of, and hopefully as a consequence more consideration for, other road users by both cyclists and drivers alike where cycle lanes are not present.

CramCycle · 06-04-2010 05:04PM

The majority of lanes I use on the way out to Tallaght are covered in glass or have cracks so deep and potholes so large that staying atop your bike is impossible. There is the odd stretch of really good laneway but it can't make up for the danger imposed by the really dodgy areas. The stretch near Nutgrove doesn't have the pavement lower to let you cycle across junctions so it's quite a hefty drop if your not prepared for it. The N11 itself is slightly better heading away from town but again junctions aren't laid out well often forcing you to stop on a green light. On the way back into town there are sections with so many driveways that, unless on a MTB, that IMO if you were to try a reasonable speed you would be flung off your bike.

I'll use a cycle lane if it's in good condition but unless I can tell, I stay away, it's not worth the risk to me or my bike.

Zoney · 06-04-2010 06:55PM

The main issues I've encountered on the minimal cycle lanes on the Castletroy side of Limerick are pedestrians, debris and junctions (although these are not frequent on the relevant sections so not as much an issue). The segregated lanes themselves are generally a good standard and allow a less tense cycling experience, plus you can bypass traffic jams that realistically you can't safely bypass (except by footpath) if in them on the road.

Two noteworthy potential death-traps (no incidents yet though to my knowledge). First: where the cycle lane cuts across a petrol station entrance after the Groody bridge (not good as a pedestrian either - if it is solid traffic one will often have to just cross and trust drivers will indicate/slow to turn). Second: where a road-marking cycle lane continues from the segregated lane on the Plassey Park Road to the University West Gate entrance. A "cycle lane" for proceeding along PPR (rather than into Uni) is painted diagonally across the left filter lane for traffic entering Uni, just after the crest of a hill too, to proceed sandwiched between two traffic lanes to the traffic lights (which bizarrely have no far-side lights, so both cyclists and front car driver have to crane their neck over their shoulder to watch the lights).

I've not much experience of the combined cycle/bus lane in Raheen, but when I've cycled it, it feels less safe than ordinary road arrangements. This upgraded "urban route" also feels less safe by car too since the upgrade. Very messy with turning lanes at lights/roundabouts, lane merges and people having to right or left turn into businesses (either undertaking in the bus lane or holding up traffic, previously the road was as wide with just a dashed line in the middle - traffic could easily bypass those turning into places).

Nevyn · 06-04-2010 07:46PM

Where is the option to say that I don't use the cos they are dangerous?

opinion guy · 06-04-2010 07:48PM

Irish cycle Lanes ??????

AHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

o wait - do you mean those death zones in the bus lanes ?

cmanracer · 07-04-2010 11:14AM

- Surfaces are appalling - the top layer is broken more often than not. Manhole covers right through the middle of the lane where we are supposed to cycle. Road surfaces are mostly better than cycle lane surfaces. Even on roads, the manhole covers seem to be right where the cyclist is going to plant his wheels

- They are seldom (if ever) properly swept. Broken glass, rubble from the road, lethal leaves during the Autumn, etc

- I love the way the bus lanes have been reduced in size to fit in a cycle lane. I havent seen the new buses that fit into the reduced width yet. Looking forward to that

- The cycle lane design whereby you can sweep past the opening door of a bus is just spectacular in its incompetence. The other great thing about this design is of course having to wade through a queue for the bus!

- Rumble strips on the cycle lane near Loughlinstown roundabout. And I will shake myself to bits cycling over them rather than going a couple metres to the left/right onto the path? Like hell I will

- Should be a seamless join on entry / exit to cycle lanes - not a lip or as in some instances the grand canyon. Using a mountain bike on my daily 28 mile commute is not an option but my road bike gets rattled to bits

- Cycle lanes dont exist where they are most needed - on narrower city roads

- They just end! Where do I go now?

Bill2673 · 07-04-2010 11:27AM

I'd also be of the view that there are really very few cycle lanes here. The red bits of road that cars drive through and buses pull into are not cycle lanes, or they are in name only.

I wonder is there any international cycling group that vets cycle lanes, and could tell us what we already know i.e. about 5% of the so-called cycle lanes in Dublin are safe.

For example Constitution Hill, biggest joke of a bike lane, it is basically 1/3rd of the LHS car lane. The cars can't drive on the car lane without driving also in the bike lane. Its not the drivers fault, its not the cyclists fault.

PS one thing that really gets me......the canals....why are there no decent cycle lanes on them? They would be perfect. On the Royal Canal for examply, there is a very good path as far as Phibsboro, great for cycling. I cycle this frequently but never see other commuters. But it ends at Phibsboro, why not carry on as far as Blanch? The roll out cost for this would be the same as about 20 metres of the poxy luas line that goes from Busarus to the Point Depot, or 3 poles on the fancy new bridge across the liffey.

For great bike lanes, please see Copenhagen.

patrickbrophy18 · 07-04-2010 11:32AM

It is often the case where I see a cycle lane and bus lane merged as is the case with The Rock Road QBC. In fact, the "so-called" bus lanes on The Rock Road QBC are often narrower than the bus vehicles themeselves. It often ends with a situation where the bus takes up the cycle lane as well as the bus lane to compensate for lost dedicated road space. Another note to add is that I frequently see bicycles holding up buses which I find incredibly frustrating. If a cyclist knows that there is a bus behind him/her, they should move aside to allow the bus to pass them out and not get in the way. A bicycle is clearly much slower than a bus and therefore cyclists who take to the middle of bus lanes should consider the fact that they are being an inconvenience to commuters and bus drivers alike.

Dyr · 07-04-2010 11:38AM

I think that those cyclists who use the imaginary cycle lanes on footpaths need sorting out.

Bill2673 · 07-04-2010 11:40AM

Bambi, Patrick...

You may well be right.....but that has damn all to do with this conversation about cycle lanes. (Except for the fact that if there were proper cycle lanes, neither of those problems would arise!!!!!)

patrickbrophy18 · 07-04-2010 11:43AM

Bill2673 wrote: »

Bambi, Patrick...

You may well be right.....but that has damn all to do with this conversation about cycle lanes. (Except for the fact that if there were proper cycle lanes, neither of those problems would arise!!!!!)

Being a little hostile there don't you think?

paulm17781 · 07-04-2010 11:45AM

Bill2673 wrote: »

(Except for the fact that if there were proper cycle lanes, neither of those problems would arise!!!!!)

I dispute that! As a cyclist, I have noticed an incredible thing in our (seemingly all Irish people) mentality. For some unknowing reason, pedestrians love to walk in cycle lanes and cyclists love to cycle on footpaths. This is most noticeable where the footpath is divided between cyclists / pedestrians.

I've seen cyclists on the footpath bit go into the cycle lane to avoid a pedestrian, then go right back to the footpath once past. Likewise, it's rare I cycle down a cycle lane and pedestrians aren't walking on it with an empty footpath beside them. I honestly can't work out why this is.

Jackasaurus rex · 07-04-2010 11:52AM

Its been a while since i cycled but the one i thought was crap was as you go pat st vincents school towards Glasnevin Cemetery and the cars and buslane/cycle lane bottleneck, then you get put on the footpath only to be taken doen and put back up by way of the ramp the cars use to drive into the garage, utter ****

dolliemix · 07-04-2010 11:56AM

The cycle lane in Ranelagh always has cars parked on it.

The cycle lane on Nutgrove avenue needs to be resurfaced.

Cars use the cycle lane on Grange Road.

Cycle lanes on the canal are great.

The easiest part of my commute is the Churchtown Road, where there are no cycle lanes. Because the road is so narrow, cars have to stay behind me, until the oncoming traffic is clear. Touch wood I've never had a bad experience here, as I think motorists have more patience when they see that you have nowhere else to go.

In the areas where there are cycle lanes, motorists feel you should be on them and nowhere else, unaware that there may be a parked car coming up, or potholes or glass.

I find as a result I have to be more careful in areas where there are cycle lanes because motorists lose patience and are more inclined to overtake you at close range.

So, it's not necessarily the lanes themselves, but motorists attitude to them thats the problem.

Bill2673 · 07-04-2010 12:02PM

Patrick, yes I was being a little hostile, but only a little (imho).....apologies if you found it too strong.

Bill2673 · 07-04-2010 12:05PM

paulm17781 wrote: »

I dispute that! As a cyclist, I have noticed an incredible thing in our (seemingly all Irish people) mentality. For some unknowing reason, pedestrians love to walk in cycle lanes and cyclists love to cycle on footpaths. This is most noticeable where the footpath is divided between cyclists / pedestrians.

I've seen cyclists on the footpath bit go into the cycle lane to avoid a pedestrian, then go right back to the footpath once past. Likewise, it's rare I cycle down a cycle lane and pedestrians aren't walking on it with an empty footpath beside them. I honestly can't work out why this is.

Paul, my point would be, on a proper cycle lane this would not arise. A proper cycle in my view should have small borders on either side that stop cars driving into it and stop cyclists moving on to the footpath.

Zoney · 07-04-2010 12:06PM

Here's the situation outside University of Limerick West Gate that I mentioned upthread:

Merge. Only signage is a blue cycle lane sign just behind where this shot was taken (no "merge" warning for cyclists or motorists):

"Special" traffic lights - note the absence of far side signals for motorists too nevermind cyclists waiting in the red box:

These are from 2006 but the same layout still applies today.

What do you think about Irish cycle lanes?

What do you think of Irish cycle lanes? 135 votes

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