Why are American Conservatives so stupid?

imported_guy · 05-04-2010 02:23AM

K-9 wrote: »

It isn't that far away from political discussion in Ireland.

Still, absolute madness. A NHS lite type system is not socialism!

read up on what socialism means and their belifs. NHS is as socialistic as it gets (nothing wrong with that).

this guy is a true conservative, everyone on fox news and 90% of the republican party are neo-cons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7d_e9lrcZ8

imported_guy · 05-04-2010 02:25AM

LeBash wrote: »

Id totally agree with taxing alot of them to the ying yang and that means while the person in question is taking up a bed in hospital and consuming 1000's in drugs every day, they have also paid for before they got there.

People say junkies shouldnt be treated in hospitals, well, its not as anti social to consumer huge amounts of salt and fast food, its still draining a ****ty healthcare system thats on its knees without either problem.

Its well off topic there, but back too it, I remember seeing that doc "supersize me" and it was red states that had the most overweight people. Maybe there is sometime to look into that.

oh come on, tax?, last time i checked tax in america was un constitutional, and IRS is just another organized crime gang run by the government which extorts the little guy for money, if people want to be fat let them be fat, wheres the personal liberty and american value here?

artielange · 05-04-2010 02:29AM

lalee17 wrote: »

Personally I find a lot of Americans, not just Conservatives, of a low intelligence.

Who would have thought?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations#National_IQ_estimates

grenache · 05-04-2010 02:30AM

Bloody Nipples wrote: »

They're so petty it hurts. They unanimously voted against the medicare bill (that extended insurance cover to millions of low income americans and prevented insurance companies from deciding whether to pay out on a policy almost on a whim) because it was politically (and that's a direct quote of theirs)damaging to the Republican party. Politics before people is disgusting.

Their suspicion of big government extends into rabid paranoia against the Democrats.

Nail on the head. Republicans are still so fearful anything that even seems 'social' that they would rather see their own people die for lack of health insurance, than benefit greatly from the medicare bill. Backward idiots to the extreme.

imported_guy · 05-04-2010 02:32AM

grenache wrote: »

Nail on the head. Republicans are still so fearful anything that even seems 'social' that they would rather see their own people die for lack of health insurance, than benefit greatly from the medicare bill. Backward idiots to the extreme.

wait i can now call up the insurance company and get insured cuz' i just got cancer from smoking 20 fags a day for 50 years....

but

i cant call up the insurance company after my house catches on fire to insure my house, because thats not how insurance works

makes perfect sense :rolleyes:

K-9 · 05-04-2010 02:34AM

imported_guy wrote: »

read up on what socialism means and their belifs. NHS is as socialistic as it gets (nothing wrong with that).

this guy is a true conservative, everyone on fox news and 90% of the republican party are neo-cons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7d_e9lrcZ8

They haven't got a NHS system though, nor will have, but neo cons think its socialism.

PS. I love Fox News so no need for the video.

grenache · 05-04-2010 02:38AM

imported_guy wrote: »

i cant call up the insurance company after my house catches on fire to insure my house, because thats not how insurance works

Well i think insuring your house is a given.

K-9 · 05-04-2010 02:38AM

imported_guy wrote: »

wait i can now call up the insurance company and get insured cuz' i just got cancer from smoking 20 fags a day for 50 years....

but

i cant call up the insurance company after my house catches on fire to insure my house, because thats not how insurance works

makes perfect sense :rolleyes:

Grand, good point and I agree with it, but some nut will say that isn't enough and will go after people who gave up smoking. Its what neo cons do. They take a reasonable point and go mad with it.

Neo Cons would go after people who light a fire.

imported_guy · 05-04-2010 02:46AM

grenache wrote: »

Well i think insuring your house is a given.

i can choose not to have it insured if i want, why can i not choose to NOT have health insurance? why must i be forced to pay a tax fine to the IRS thugs?

if i want to die let me die, the government is infringing upon the people's personal liberty, and violating the constitution.

K-9 wrote: »

Grand, good point and I agree with it, but some nut will say that isn't enough and will go after people who gave up smoking. Its what neo cons do. They take a reasonable point and go mad with it.

Neo Cons would go after people who light a fire.

ah but you know thats sort of missing the point really, the point (both libertarian conservatives and typical bill o rielly type) belive that nationalized healthcare wont work, just like medicare and medicaid dont work, they contribute MASSIVELY to the deficit and the debt, obama increased the national debt by 2 trillion dollars in his first year... the country is already bankrupt, why the hell are you increasing the size of the government?, the spending should be CUT not increased, its just retarded and doesnt make sense.

bleg · 05-04-2010 02:50AM

American conservatives are very smart. Why do you think they get into power so often?

M5 · 05-04-2010 02:51AM

bleg wrote: »

American conservatives are very smart. Why do you think they get into power so often?

have you seen the alternative???

K-9 · 05-04-2010 02:52AM

imported_guy wrote: »

i can choose not to have it insured if i want, why can i not choose to NOT have health insurance? why must i be forced to pay a tax fine to the IRS thugs?

if i want to die let me die, the government is infringing upon the people's personal liberty, and violating the constitution.

ah but you know thats sort of missing the point really, the point (both libertarian conservatives and typical bill o rielly type) belive that nationalized healthcare wont work, just like medicare and medicaid dont work, they contribute MASSIVELY to the deficit and the debt, obama increased the national debt by 2 trillion dollars in his first year... the country is already bankrupt, why the hell are you increasing the size of the government?, the spending should be CUT not increased, its just retarded and doesnt make sense.

Yes, but would having a Universal Health system maybe save money in the long run? False economy and all that?

I'm not up on the reasons for the increase in the debt but the reforms in the Health system are hardly the main reason for the increase in the debt?

imported_guy · 05-04-2010 03:09AM

K-9 wrote: »

Yes, but would having a Universal Health system maybe save money in the long run? False economy and all that?

I'm not up on the reasons for the increase in the debt but the reforms in the Health system are hardly the main reason for the increase in the debt?

its going to cost a minimum of 1-1.5 trillion in the next 10 years

http://article.nationalreview.com/397212/the-high-cost-of-obamacare/lawrence-a-hunter

and

At its inception in 1966, Medicare cost $3 billion a year. At that time, the Ways and Means Committee of the U.S. House of Representatives projected “conservatively” that the program would cost approximately $12 billion a year by 1990. In 1990, the cost of Medicare was actually $107 billion — nine times greater than the Ways and Means estimate.

so by looking at the past trends, its going to cost atleast 9 trillion in the next 10 years.

K-9 · 05-04-2010 03:14AM

imported_guy wrote: »

its going to cost a minimum of 1-1.5 trillion in the next 10 years

http://article.nationalreview.com/397212/the-high-cost-of-obamacare/lawrence-a-hunter

and

so by looking at the past trends, its going to cost atleast 9 trillion in the next 10 years.

Ah, you didn't answer my question.

If anything you reinforced my point. You say it will cost 1-1.5 trillion over 10 years minimum, but the debt is 2 trillion a this year.

Even 9 trillion, is less than a trillion a year.

So, I ask again, where is the rest going?

red herring · 05-04-2010 03:17AM

Too conservative, lack of sex makes them stupid.:D

imported_guy · 05-04-2010 03:19AM

K-9 wrote: »

Ah, you didn't answer my question.

If anything you reinforced my point. You say it will cost 1-1.5 trillion over 10 years minimum, but the debt is 2 trillion a this year.

Even 9 trillion, is less than a trillion a year.

So, I ask again, where is the rest going?

the 2 trillion was last years figure, it included everything not just healthcare (i.e bank bailouts, iraq war etc) it was the total deficit, what im talking about (the 9 trillion figure, is just the healthcare cost, it does not include iraq war, future bank bailouts, etc)

Mark200 · 05-04-2010 03:47PM

imported_guy wrote: »

read up on what socialism means and their belifs. NHS is as socialistic as it gets (nothing wrong with that).

My problem isn't with the fact that they described the NHS as a somewhat socialist healthcare system, my problem is that the NHS was even brought into the debate. No one ever proposed anything like Government-run healthcare like the UK, nor anything like Single Payer as seen in Canada. Yet the UK and Canada were over and over used by Conservatives as reasons to oppose the bill.

imported_guy wrote: »

wait i can now call up the insurance company and get insured cuz' i just got cancer from smoking 20 fags a day for 50 years....

but

i cant call up the insurance company after my house catches on fire to insure my house, because thats not how insurance works

makes perfect sense :rolleyes:

The problem is that (to continue the comparison), the way the health insurance industry was at was that if your house has been on fire before... then if it goes on fire again, the insurance company won't pay out. As well as that, if your house is particularly prone to problems (eg flooding), you can always move house. But if your body is particularly prone to get cancer... you can't change bodies.

Also, it's worth noting that asthma, pregnancy and domestic abuse are also considered 'pre-existing conditions' by insurance companies.

imported_guy wrote: »

i can choose not to have it insured if i want, why can i not choose to NOT have health insurance? why must i be forced to pay a tax fine to the IRS thugs?

if i want to die let me die, the government is infringing upon the people's personal liberty, and violating the constitution.

The point is that the people who do not have health insurance just go to the emergency room instead in the case of an emergency, where they have to be treated. This ends up being far more expensive in the long run to insurance companies and hospitals than if the person had just been insured in the first place.

Also, one of the key goals was that discrimination against pre-existing conditions must be eliminated. So if the bill eliminates discrimination against them, what would be stopping someone from not getting health insurance until they get sick, and then getting health insurance? Nothing. That's the point of the mandate.

imported_guy wrote: »

its going to cost a minimum of 1-1.5 trillion in the next 10 years

It's all paid for in the bill, it will reduce the deficit.

imported_guy wrote: »

so by looking at the past trends, its going to cost atleast 9 trillion in the next 10 years.

using one example doesn't count as "looking at past trends"

tricky D · 05-04-2010 03:55PM

IQ and votes

http://www.gulbransen.net/images/blog/2004ElectionIQ.png

imported_guy · 05-04-2010 04:11PM

Mark200 wrote: »

My problem isn't with the fact that they described the NHS as a somewhat socialist healthcare system, my problem is that the NHS was even brought into the debate. No one ever proposed anything like Government-run healthcare like the UK, nor anything like Single Payer as seen in Canada. Yet the UK and Canada were over and over used by Conservatives as reasons to oppose the bill.

the point im trying to make is why are the people being FORCED to buy health insurance?

you shouldn't be able to FORCE someone to do anything, and this is highly un-constitutional, it infringes upon the right to choose

Mark200 · 05-04-2010 04:18PM

imported_guy wrote: »

the point im trying to make is why are the people being FORCED to buy health insurance?

you shouldn't be able to FORCE someone to do anything, and this is highly un-constitutional, it infringes upon the right to choose

I explained exactly why people are being FORCED to buy health insurance:

The point is that the people who do not have health insurance just go to the emergency room instead in the case of an emergency, where they have to be treated. This ends up being far more expensive in the long run to insurance companies and hospitals than if the person had just been insured in the first place.

Also, one of the key goals was that discrimination against pre-existing conditions must be eliminated. So if the bill eliminates discrimination against them, what would be stopping someone from not getting health insurance until they get sick, and then getting health insurance? Nothing. That's the point of the mandate.

And I'm not sure where exactly the "right to choose" exists in the US constitution. Many US states have a health insurance mandate already.

Minstrel27 · 05-04-2010 04:49PM

Mrmoe wrote: »

Ah come on now, leave poor Bill out of this, he is not that bad. Now, if you want some lunacy then tune in to Sean Hannity, logic and facts have no place on his show.

Agreed. O' Reilly is a saint when compared to Sean Hannity.

Bonito · 05-04-2010 04:52PM

Dammit I read the Op as "Why are American conservatories so stupid"

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 05-04-2010 05:06PM

Stupidity is not reserved for any one nation. People in general in society, are just sooo stupid, but people on their own are quite intelligent. Ireland has it's fair share of thickos too... don't be fooled into thinking otherwise...

K-9 · 05-04-2010 05:06PM

imported_guy wrote: »

the point im trying to make is why are the people being FORCED to buy health insurance?

you shouldn't be able to FORCE someone to do anything, and this is highly un-constitutional, it infringes upon the right to choose

AFAIK, Germany and a few other European countries have this model.

I suppose it comes down to how you view big Government. It is either interfering in free choice and the market or sometimes it has to step in on things like Health, education etc. when certain sections of society are disadvantaged.

thetonynator · 05-04-2010 06:11PM

imported_guy wrote: »

the point im trying to make is why are the people being FORCED to buy health insurance?

you shouldn't be able to FORCE someone to do anything, and this is highly un-constitutional, it infringes upon the right to choose

we're forced to pay tax - is that unfair??? ( no sarcastic comments please

) Yes, it is fair, because the state couldn't function without money and we would have anarchy.

Mark200 wrote: »

Also, it's worth noting that asthma, pregnancy and domestic abuse are also considered 'pre-existing conditions' by insurance companies.

There was an article in the Indo a few weeks ago, a couple who moved to america while she was pregnant, they couldn't get insurance because she was pregnant already.

Agricola · 05-04-2010 07:49PM

Everytime I think of American Republicans I think of the interview Sarah Palin did with Katie Couric about American foreign policy. Christ it was like a particularly cringey episode of The Office. Very hard to watch!

John McCain isnt the youngest / fittest man in the world. Imagine he had won the election and takin ill 2 years into his term. Sarah Palin would become the acting President of the US! :eek: Any party that would give her the number 2 position is bat**** crazy.

OxfordComma · 05-04-2010 08:06PM

The Conservatives drive me absolutely mad. :mad: They seemingly dismissed Obama's healthcare reform because it was "communist", which is such an idiotic justification for opposing the bill that I can't even believe it.

imported_guy · 05-04-2010 08:11PM

thetonynator wrote: »

we're forced to pay tax - is that unfair??? ( no sarcastic comments please ) Yes, it is fair, because the state couldn't function without money and we would have anarchy.

actully tax is unconstitutional in america

Something many people don't actually know is that in the United States of America, there is no written law that states one must pay a federal income tax. You can research it yourself if you like; the government has been robbing its people for the better part of a century now.

check this out http://www.givemeliberty.org/feature...s/showdown.htm

this

http://www.givemeliberty.org/RTPLaws...2005-01-29.htm

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_pro...ment_arguments

in ireland and europe we live in a socialist economy rather than a capitalist one, thats why our government butt rapes some of us for being rich, and feeds the lazy through welfare, free education and free healthcare. its not free, us hardworking people pay for it ofcourse, but for some people it comes with no strings attached... sigh

imported_guy · 05-04-2010 08:12PM

1fahy4 wrote: »

The Conservatives drive me absolutely mad. :mad: They seemingly dismissed Obama's healthcare reform because it was "communist", which is such an idiotic justification for opposing the bill that I can't even believe it.

the healthcare reform is pretty retarded

if im a billionaire, trust me i dont need health insurance, i can get the best healthcare and pay on the spot and not really care about how much i spent on it, thats why people shouldnt be FORCED to buy healthcare.

lets say my house catches on fire, i shouldnt really be able to call up the house insurance company and insure my house as my kitchen utensils catch on fire the insurance should be there just there INCASE it ever gets on fire, thats what i am able to do right now with healthcare, call up the insurance companies and insure myself as the cancer is spreading in my lungs from 50 years of smoking 20 fags a day.

that is really asking for the economy of the country to get F'd in the A, health insurance industry is probably one of the biggest in the country now if they cant deny pre existing conditions how are they going to be profitable?

solutions?

1) encourage competition, government should encourage small business including new healthcare insurance companies, increased competition = increased quality of insurance at a lower cost.

2) sort out medicare/medicaid first before trying to fix something which isnt broken (the healthcare insurance system)

3) i heard of an idea which was sort of like a 401k plan retirement plan. lets say you open up a savings account specially for medical expenses, if you deposit X ammount of money in it, the government will match what you put in the account up to a certain ammount, when the ammount gets insanely big lets say you never get sick, and you save up quite a bit, lets say you save up a million dollars in that account and another million dollar in that account was from the government, the government should just take back its one million because, well one million is alot for most medical procedures these days and it can distribute that money back to the tax payers, so overall this plan will increase taxes by a TINY bit, but will benifit those with low incomes greatly, more so than obamacare.

4) nationalize the healthcare but have a private option, sort of like what we have in ireland. (this one really isnt ideal, it will mean massive taxes for everyone.... and asking to be abused by red necks because they cant afford the private option and the public one sucks.... and trust me it will, as alot of people have to wait for hours/days in the emergency department in ireland at a public hospital)

Agricola · 05-04-2010 08:17PM

imported_guy wrote: »

in ireland and europe we live in a socialist economy rather than a capitalist one, thats why our government butt rapes some of us for being rich, and feeds the lazy through welfare, free education and free healthcare. its not free, us hardworking people pay for it ofcourse, but for some people it comes with no strings attached... sigh

Its better to live in a country with some socialist leanings. Distributing wealth so that the entire population has at the very least an acceptable standard of living is better than a situation where a country has both the mega rich AND huge swathes of country in poverty.

Why are American Conservatives so stupid?

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