DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

Elmo · 02-04-2010 07:08PM

icdg wrote: »

Lots of wishful thinking there.

Wishful thinking coming from the BAI for the last 3 year TBH.

Biffo The Bare · 03-04-2010 01:52PM

Elmo wrote: »

Wishful thinking coming from the BAI for the last 3 year TBH.

Elmo why don't you open up your own Irish Music channel, get it onto DTT, make a huge success of it
and prove us all wrong.:rolleyes:

BoredNaMoaner · 03-04-2010 05:05PM

I am just confused about the latest events.
With all this talk of EasyTV, I thought that there was an amendment to the legislation passed a few months ago that would allow for the direct rollout out DTT without having to offer it to EasyTV in the event of OneVision pulling the plug. In any case surely allowing EasyTV to potentially waste another year in negotiations is madness. And how is it that their bid was even accepted for consideration in the first place, seeing as RTE as the State broadcaster has a legal mandate to supply FTA broadcasts. Surely that role is severely compromised if it has a vested interest to make its PayTV arm work in the same market?

Also, it is disappointing to see the BAI indicate their frustrations and then offer another 2 weeks. Could it be that there is no mechanism to force Onevision to quit unless voluntarily and the matter could be turning nasty and heading for the courts?

Elmo · 03-04-2010 05:19PM

BoredNaMoaner wrote: »

I am just confused about the latest events.
With all this talk of EasyTV, I thought that there was an amendment to the legislation passed a few months ago that would allow for the direct rollout out DTT without having to offer it to EasyTV in the event of OneVision pulling the plug.

An SI has been signed telling RTÉ NL to roll out SaorView on The 31st of October 2010 even if One Vision or Easy TV aren't ready to launch.

seeing as RTE as the State broadcaster has a legal mandate to supply FTA broadcasts.

I would actually put more of an emphasis that the biggest Pay TV operator is part of Easy TV rather than RTÉ. RTÉ at one stage co-owned Cablelink.

But then I have issues with all 3 Applications

1. Communicorp who said they were not content providers yet their radio services may be provided on DTT.
2. Eircom a former state body and the largest telecommunications operator in the country.
3. UPC the largest Pay TV operator.

Surely that role is severely compromised if it has a vested interest to make its PayTV arm work in the same market?

Unless they were to encrypt the FTA services which would not be allowed and it would just be foolish. UPC have much more of a vested interest in insuring the continued development of Pay TV.

Sam Russell · 03-04-2010 07:27PM

If Onevision do pull out, it calls into question the initial selection process. To lose one bidder would be unfortunate, to lose two seems like carelessness. Or even incompetence.

EasyTV should probably have been selected first, even if only because they might be the only one left standing at the end of the process. I was surprised that they were placed third. But on what criteria? The major paytv operator and the network operator and national broadcaster? Hmmm..... What is that smell?

The selection process was far from transparent, IMHO. A beauty contest has no performance or financial targets, with no real penalties for missing those targets claimed in the proposal. The assumptions used by Onevision look rather thin and wan now in the recession. The assumption that overspill would not occur seems to be the opposite of the facts now. In 2013, perhaps the whole of Dublin will be getting Divis loud and clear. What is their plan B?

The whole country is ruined.:mad:

scath · 03-04-2010 08:08PM

I would think the way the weighting was done was, top weighting given to existing experience, plus new to television broadcasting thus Boxer came 1st. Experience with digital terrestrial, FTA proposition, small interest in television broadcasting (setanta, tv3, arquiva), and finally 3rd, existing interesting in television broadcasting, existing player in pay TV...therefore given the least weighting because new players are preferred to have the most competitive market and to avoid smp (significant market power). I'd say that's why we got the result we have. It will be interesting, so 1 week is nearly gone right? Next week is it then? Yipee..we will have clarity soon. I don't expect it'll take Easy TV another year if One Vision say tora-la...because RTÉ will want to tie in into the FTA marketing etc and launch and that suits Liberty Global to get in there as soon as possible and take on Sky more strongly. What you'll have then is two strong operators, UPC/Easy TV versus Sky Ireland, two big players, and MMDS would probably be turned off and returned to ComReg?

scath · 03-04-2010 08:16PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

If Onevision do pull out, it calls into question the initial selection process. To lose one bidder would be unfortunate, to lose two seems like carelessness. Or even incompetence.

It was unlucky but they were let drag on too long. 6 months was long enough. Then they did it again. Hopefully they will learn from it this time.

Sam Russell wrote: »

EasyTV should probably have been selected first....

The selection process was far from transparent, IMHO. A beauty contest has no performance or financial targets, with no real penalties for missing those targets claimed in the proposal. The assumptions used by Onevision look rather thin and wan now in the recession. The assumption that overspill would not occur seems to be the opposite of the facts now. In 2013, perhaps the whole of Dublin will be getting Divis loud and clear. What is their plan B?

The whole country is ruined.:mad:

The difference with digital terrestrial is they can turn down the power and thus control the overspill, which they couldn't do to easily with analogue according to what I heard from the BBC. So less overspill is likely. Overspill doesn't help the BBC in terms of royalty charges to UPC etc...and One Vision should have had the sense not to base their plan on ignorance and charge for BBC. Because alot of people are starting to cop-on to FTA satellite and its not worth the BBC doing anything about it technically and financially. So One Vision are only pushing people over to satellite with that kind of thinking or combi which could put people off subscription.

I don't know...either Easy TV take it up, or else you'll see Sky Picnic Ireland come in and they'll get reduced DTT fees from the BAI through ComReg...smart boys & girls at the end of it..they didn't get involved in the consortia eh!

04-04-2010 10:13AM

scath wrote: »

The difference with digital terrestrial is they can turn down the power and thus control the overspill, which they couldn't do to easily with analogue according to what I heard from the BBC. So less overspill is likely.

Do you have a link to this? I mean they can't null willy nilly,they have to have coverage in outlying areas and that means overspill bigtime.

Overspill doesn't help the BBC in terms of royalty charges to UPC etc...and One Vision should have had the sense not to base their plan on ignorance and charge for BBC. Because alot of people are starting to cop-on to FTA satellite and its not worth the BBC doing anything about it technically and financially. So One Vision are only pushing people over to satellite with that kind of thinking or combi which could put people off subscription.

I'm starting to lose count of the shiny new presely aerials going up around arklow..taking it alone as an example
UK freeview to the many with aerials is extremely widespread now and that took just 6 months with no campaign.
Amazing what Free does versus pay...

Sam Russell · 04-04-2010 11:31AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Amazing what Free does versus pay...

I am anxious to get Freeview in Dublin 4 for several reasons. Mainly for the FREE element of Freeview. The second reason is so that I have a single remote, that works as the TV designer intended. Third, I can distribute it around my home freely without the heavy demand that satellite imposes. OK, I accept that I need a DX aerial on a pole attached to my chimney, but that is the only price I]if it works[/I. I might have to wait for Divis, but I will try LLandonna or Arfon soon.

I have Freesat, which is brilliant, but Freeview would be better. Onevision will never do anything for me.

Free is certainly persuasive.:)

04-04-2010 07:58PM

Bear in mind that the montrose hotel ,not far from donnybrook had to put up a huge mast and a quad array to get arfon analogue reliably.
I'd guess kilkeel [or possibly Divis though I'm not as convinced as mrdtv that this will be available in the lower parts of Dublin without a tall mast-Cablelink/RTE relays had to have a huge one in Terrenure for instance before the days of widespread microwave] will be your best bet.

Sam Russell · 04-04-2010 08:25PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Bear in mind that the montrose hotel ,not far from donnybrook had to put up a huge mast and a quad array to get arfon analogue reliably.
I'd guess kilkeel [or possibly Divis though I'm not as convinced as mrdtv that this will be available in the lower parts of Dublin without a tall mast-Cablelink/RTE relays had to have a huge one in Terrenure for instance before the days of widespread microwave] will be your best bet.

I know, but digital is different, I hope.

If it cannot be done, so be it. I realise it is a long way, but you never know. I have a clear view from the roof to the sea, and should get Arfon, but would like Llanddona. They are about the same distance, but I think Arfon is higher. Anyway, I can try again in 2013 when Divis is full power.

.

Elmo · 05-04-2010 12:18PM

bk wrote: »

Foreign companies have never really been a major threat to RTE, remember, Ireland already has one of the highest multichannel take up rates in the world. RTE has been competing successfully with foreign broadcasters from day one.

My fear would be that many UK stations/ International stations would air FTA on DTT, without creating any jobs in the industry and would eat into the advertising market.

RTÉ, TV3, TG4 and Setanta have 53% share of the market.

As the BBC don't advertise they won't effect the share of the advertising market (BBC has about 10% of audience across all BBC channels est)

however there are other channels with a 17% share of the audience who benefit from the Irish advertising market, but that do not benefit the Irish Economy.

And there are more channels with a 20%. It is not inconceivable that the "UKTV" channels (Dave, Gold etc) would not want to take its 5% share of the advertising market that it may hold in Ireland. If more and more international channels provide opt-out advertising and if the Irish channels see a reduction in their audience it may see the exiting of at most 50% of the Irish advertising market.

When RTÉ had Minister Burke cap their advertising UTV benefited the most, not the Irish Radio Stations that Burke was trying to protect (he got a nice little back hander).

I've mixed feelings about Easy TV winning the license, on the one hand, RTE should have always been the ones to rollout DTT in a Freeview type format. On the other hand I hate to see UPC get even more power in the Irish DTT market.

I have had mixed feelings about One Vision, Eircom at the helm???? Sure it is anti-competitive?

scath · 05-04-2010 02:49PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you have a link to this?

I haven't. It was a contribution from one of the folks in BBC Northern Ireland in my dissertation on DTT, who said in his contribution that overspill can be controlled much better in digital than analogue terrestrial. Just the technology can do it. That's why the digitaltelevision.ie website warns of it. But at the moment there is overspill as ye point out. So I don't know how it wil play out but I agree with you and that for Irish DTT to be successful it should have the lions share FTA DTT with a smaller proportion subscription based. How do you achieve that though? Will UK channels be prepared to pay carriage in return for advertising? With satellite they do for the UK.

Elmo · 05-04-2010 04:03PM

bk wrote: »

Elmo I don't think it is much of a danger. Remember, 80% of homes are multichannel already, RTE already competes effectively with all of these channels on UPC and Sky.

We are only talking about adding the extra channels to the remaining 20% of the market.

What I am saying is an issue. Lets face it if we consider that the UKTV, C4, Viacom set of channels gain more access to an Irish audience that they may look at providing an opt-out advertising service. I am not suggesting that RTÉ, TV3, TG4 or Setanta would loss viewers. I am saying that C4's, Viacom's advertising take from the Irish market would increase based on the number of opt-outs. UKTV have yet to launch an opt-out service but I can't imagine that they won't being selling advertising in the near future, if they do this will eat into RTÉ's, TV3's, TG4's and Setanta's advertising take.

I think we should support new Irish services that will employ people in this country. Even if I dislike TV3 at least they employ 200 people in the industry.

bk · 06-04-2010 11:26AM

Damn, sorry everyone, I was moving the posts about RTE HD out into their own thread for discussion, when there seemed to be a problem with my browser and all those posts seem to have disappeared! This is very strange and never happened to me before, again I apologise for this mess up.

Elmo · 06-04-2010 11:39AM

bk wrote: »

Damn, sorry everyone, I was moving the posts about RTE HD out into their own thread for discussion, when there seemed to be a problem with my browser and all those posts seem to have disappeared! This is very strange and never happened to me before, again I apologise for this mess up.

There seems to be a 73rd page.

copacetic · 06-04-2010 11:46AM

depending on how many posts you have of course, I see a page 55 of posts that doesn't appear when you click on it.

Trying to move posts out of very large threads is risky, looks like it's caused a db issue.

Elmo · 06-04-2010 11:49AM

copacetic wrote: »

depending on how many posts you have of course, I see a page 55 of posts that doesn't appear when you click on it.

Ye will be all glad to hear that I am giving up once I reach 10,000.

copacetic · 06-04-2010 11:57AM

Elmo wrote: »

Ye will be all glad to here that I am giving up once I reach 10,000.

I meant posts/page setting, but I hear ya!

rabbitsears · 06-04-2010 12:20PM

I still think the whole €20m bond tactic was designed by RTÉ to ensure they would ultimately win the contract.

Elmo · 06-04-2010 12:31PM

rabbitsears wrote: »

I still think the whole €20m bond tactic was designed by RTÉ to ensure they would ultimately win the contract.

Did they know that the BAI would give the licence in principle to the next applicant????? I would have thought that the BAI's handing out of licences is highly unusual. At the end of the day RTÉ have spent millions on this roll out already they are entitled to look for support from the commercial operator.

Biffo The Bare · 06-04-2010 12:37PM

bk wrote: »

Damn, sorry everyone, I was moving the posts about RTE HD out into their own thread for discussion, when there seemed to be a problem with my browser and all those posts seem to have disappeared! This is very strange and never happened to me before, again I apologise for this mess up.

I suppose if it aint broke, don't try and fix it. Also RTE HD is a relevant topic for discussion on this thread.

bk · 06-04-2010 12:58PM

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

I suppose if it aint broke, don't try and fix it. Also RTE HD is a relevant topic for discussion on this thread.

Yes, but it had gotten big enough (17 posts) that it deserved it's own thread and many of the posts were about RTE HD generally and weren't specific to DTT and in particular a thread about OneVision

With the likely news about OneVision either taking or turning down the contract in the next week, I wanted to keep the focus on that.

Biffo The Bare · 06-04-2010 01:07PM

bk wrote: »

Yes, but it had gotten big enough (17 posts) that it deserved it's own thread and many of the posts were about RTE HD generally and weren't specific to DTT and in particular a thread about OneVision

With the likely news about OneVision either taking or turning down the contract in the next week, I wanted to keep the focus on that.

Yeah good point.

Sam Russell · 06-04-2010 01:20PM

Well you certainly removed the focus on RTE HD.

endakenny · 06-04-2010 09:41PM

Elmo wrote: »

When RTÉ had Minister Burke cap their advertising UTV benefited the most, not the Irish Radio Stations that Burke was trying to protect (he got a nice little back hander).

Why has the fact that the advertising cap on RTÉ was imposed by a corrupt politician not led to the abolition of the cap? Does the European Commission have any influence on this matter?

Elmo · 07-04-2010 09:11AM

endakenny wrote: »

Why has the fact that the advertising cap on RTÉ was imposed by a corrupt politician not led to the abolition of the cap? Does the European Commission have any influence on this matter?

The cap was removed. The cap imposed by Mr. Burke was there only to insure that RTÉ could not earn more in advertising revenue than it got from the licence fee (at the time they earned far more from advertising than from the licence fee which was the lowest in Europe, and they were the incumbent monopoly). It also had reduce the number of minutes that RTÉ could have advertising on the air, the number of minutes of advertising that RTÉ can broadcast have since been increased but Commercial providers have more minutes. RTÉ can now earn more in ad revenue than from the licence fee.

BoredNaMoaner · 07-04-2010 09:20AM

It is almost time to change the name of the thread anyway.
I suggest "OneVision gone, Easy TV Awarded 11th May: Will they Launch?"

scath · 07-04-2010 09:31AM

BoredNaMoaner wrote: »

It is almost time to change the name of the thread anyway.
I suggest "OneVision gone, Easy TV Awarded 11th May: Will they Launch?"

Hehe..almost but not quite...:D impatience dear watson...but honestly, I'd say the 3rd party is looking at the documents and should have a view ready for the regulator tomorrow. It should form a view and make a determination Friday noon which it would then make known to the parties lunchtime for them to mull over the weekend and come back to them Monday evening following their decision. I suspect its gonna be some time midweek of next week when we hear the fate of the One Vision license offer. No doubt the BAI should move quickly after that to re-offer to Easy TV or if its a yes from One Vision to signature and the arrangements for the financial side. I wonder what Sky's next move will be. Will they apply for Sky Picnic Ireland from the BAI? I guess they'll want to wait and see on the pay DTT side first before making a decision on that.

byrnefm · 07-04-2010 09:56PM

scath wrote: »

Hehe..almost but not quite...:D impatience dear watson...but honestly, I'd say the 3rd party is looking at the documents and should have a view ready for the regulator tomorrow. It should form a view and make a determination Friday noon which it would then make known to the parties lunchtime for them to mull over the weekend and come back to them Monday evening following their decision. I suspect its gonna be some time midweek of next week when we hear the fate of the One Vision license offer. No doubt the BAI should move quickly after that to re-offer to Easy TV or if its a yes from One Vision to signature and the arrangements for the financial side. I wonder what Sky's next move will be. Will they apply for Sky Picnic Ireland from the BAI? I guess they'll want to wait and see on the pay DTT side first before making a decision on that.

With all the delays from One Vision and deadlines by BAI, I wonder if there is any guarantee we'll hear something by next week? I think for me, it's not impatience to hear what the final decision is but lack of hope that some party will actually decide something... Sigh.

DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

Comments