Quinn Insurance group: administrators just appointed

SV · 30-03-2010 03:24PM

Nash Yummy Halogen wrote: »

Ah ok no worries... What car have ya got? :P

Clio 172

Dionysus · 30-03-2010 03:34PM

According to the BBC, 2,800 people are employed by Quinn Insurance alone (the entire Quinn group employs over 8,000 people across Europe):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8595018.stm

That's a lot of families. I've been reading in the past few weeks that the major obstacle to Quinn being helped out of this is that he refuses to give the state/Anglo-Irish bank an equity stake in the Quinn group.

Just yesterday John McManus in The Irish Times dedicated an entire article to the relationship between the Irish government and Quinn:

"The Government, via Anglo, is, for the time being, locked in a desperate embrace with Quinn.

'The question is, how do they get out of it? It is worrying that Quinn Group seems reluctant to engage with a number of proposals put on the table by Anglo aimed at reducing its debt. It’s not necessarily surprising, as they involve debt-for-equity swaps and asset sales. All of which are anathema to Sean Quinn, who built the company from nothing over 36 years.'

From: How is State to unlock perilous embrace of the Quinn Group?

G-Money · 30-03-2010 03:47PM

I'm insured with them, although I've only about 2 months left on my policy with them. I think I'll start to shop around now and get some quotes. I don't fancy forking out another years insurance and then they go belly up and I have to go fork out another lump sum to some other provider.

Minstrel27 · 30-03-2010 04:08PM

I have never had a problem with them. They are the only insurance company who will quote me under €500

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 30-03-2010 04:16PM

SV wrote: »

Clio 172

That's the 2 litre car? Surely you can get a quote of another company? I found brokers to be the best.

Have you tried 123.ie? I went with a small company in Carlow for a few years. Abbey Murphy, you should google them and give them a shout. See what they come up with.

I can see that car being expensive to insure, but not that expensive... Surely there should be an alternative to Quinn.

Tigger · 30-03-2010 04:24PM

Dionysus wrote: »

Yep, and I can also see that the guy with the upstart digger driver mentality will be back wiser than ever. He's come a long way.

By the way, I made a claim with FBD in the past year and they settled it very quickly, within a week or two if I recall. I wouldn't go near Quinn as they sought too much private information just for a simple quote. But I certainly do respect the ambition and achievements of the guy who was brought up on a small farm in Fermanagh and bypassed the rest of them to become the richest man in Ireland.

If he does go under and the Irish taxpayer has to bail him out, I do hope that the hundreds of millions which he put in a trust fund for his children is taken to repay us.

a company and a poerson are distinct
if i run up debts with aa company and pay myself the cash out of it so it has very few assetts and many liabalities then let it fold you cannot chase my assetts only the companies assetts the way that the media and the govt have let on they can chase people is nonsense

so no his hundreds of millions are safe

partyguinness · 30-03-2010 04:26PM

Tigger wrote: »

a company and a poerson are distinct
if i run up debts with aa company and pay myself the cash out of it so it has very few assetts and many liabalities then let it fold you cannot chase my assetts only the companies assetts the way that the media and the govt have let on they can chase people is nonsense

so no his hundreds of millions are safe

Unless he has given personal guarantees....

Tigger · 30-03-2010 04:32PM

betafrog wrote: »

Unless of course they find he was committing fraud or some other illegal financial activities in which case they can quite easily seize his assets...

You also forget that his hundreds of millions are tied up in shares. So if the company goes bust so does he.

no i didn't they extracted a dividend in 2008

its free and clear

and its unlikley that he was being fradulent only running close to the wind

D-Generate · 30-03-2010 05:14PM

I used to work in a major Irish insurance company and it was speculated for the past 3 years at least that Quinn Insurance would go under. They just had unsustainable growth much like PMPA did back in the day and their premiums were not adequately matching the risks they took on.

If incompetence in a job was grounds for a prosecution because the old financial regulator, Neary, could do with a few years in Mountjoy for missing all those glaring examples of companies with dodgy accounts (Anglo, Quinn etc).

Farls · 30-03-2010 05:50PM

baalthor wrote: »

Losing over a billion quid through share speculation is some f***ing mistake!

It was around the 2.5 billion mark of his personal wealth AFAIK. It's all in proportion, similar to a normal man loosing a few thousand.

Farls · 30-03-2010 05:54PM

Dionysus wrote: »

According to the BBC, 2,800 people are employed by Quinn Insurance alone (the entire Quinn group employs over 8,000 people across Europe):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8595018.stm

That's a lot of families. I've been reading in the past few weeks that the major obstacle to Quinn being helped out of this is that he refuses to give the state/Anglo-Irish bank an equity stake in the Quinn group.

Just yesterday John McManus in The Irish Times dedicated an entire article to the relationship between the Irish government and Quinn:

"The Government, via Anglo, is, for the time being, locked in a desperate embrace with Quinn.

'The question is, how do they get out of it? It is worrying that Quinn Group seems reluctant to engage with a number of proposals put on the table by Anglo aimed at reducing its debt. It’s not necessarily surprising, as they involve debt-for-equity swaps and asset sales. All of which are anathema to Sean Quinn, who built the company from nothing over 36 years.'

From: How is State to unlock perilous embrace of the Quinn Group?

Maybe if they didn't treat one of the biggest employers in the country like an outlaw he might play ball with them...

Sean Quinn steps down from Quinn Insurance

Privatise the most of this country and put men like Quinn and O'Leary in charge and we wouldn't be in the mess we are in. Talk about throwing stones in glass houses!!!

Frelance · 30-03-2010 06:47PM

I work in quinns.. rough day today. to anyone gloating at people losing their jobs ya should be ashamed. I work hard and will help ya out whatever way i can. Made alot of friends in the place and its a great place to work.
yeh there is some problems but im confident we'l push through. We got about as much notice as the public did which didnt help too much when the calls started coming in and we didnt know what to advise.

irishejit · 31-03-2010 12:04AM

You can all rest easy. Your policy is fine.

What had happened is that the Financial Regulator requires all insurabce companies to keep what they call a solvency ratio.

Basically it means that in case of a catatrosphic event, say earthquake, these companies have to keep assets that can be sold in the case of widespread claims. in Quinns case some of these assets are the propertys that are owned.

Due to the downturn in property prices these assets now do not cover what is required by the regulator in case of emergencies. This is very serious in their eyes.

While this may lead to job cuts and the ultimate selling of the company individual policies are fine as insurance companies also pay into a fund that will cover any claims in an eventuality of this.

Being an ex Quinns employee though what will happen is they will stop underwriting UK business and stay afloat as purely an Irish insurer

MrsJohnMurphy · 31-03-2010 12:11AM

D-Generate wrote: »

I used to work in a major Irish insurance company and it was speculated for the past 3 years at least that Quinn Insurance would go under. They just had unsustainable growth much like PMPA did back in the day and their premiums were not adequately matching the risks they took on.

As Alan Sugar once said "anyone can sell ten pound notes for a fiver!".

Insurance is a complex industry where profits from a sale might come years down the road of the policys lifetime.

The insurances co's were all shooting eachother in the foot for years droping prices to gain market share.

Will be interesting to see how this pans out! Will one of the existing operators buy the name or the book of busines or will an overseas player come in!?

mjm

Tigger · 31-03-2010 12:51AM

irishejit wrote: »

You can all rest easy. Your policy is fine.

What had happened is that the Financial Regulator requires all insurabce companies to keep what they call a solvency ratio.

Basically it means that in case of a catatrosphic event, say earthquake, these companies have to keep assets that can be sold in the case of widespread claims. in Quinns case some of these assets are the propertys that are owned.

Due to the downturn in property prices these assets now do not cover what is required by the regulator in case of emergencies. This is very serious in their eyes.

While this may lead to job cuts and the ultimate selling of the company individual policies are fine as insurance companies also pay into a fund that will cover any claims in an eventuality of this.

Being an ex Quinns employee though what will happen is they will stop underwriting UK business and stay afloat as purely an Irish insurer

so howcome when aig went down i wasn't fine?

Farls · 31-03-2010 03:40PM

http://www.quinn-group.com/latest/latestdetail.cfm/news/46/QUINN-group_Ltd_Press_Release.html

QUINN-group Limited wishes to comment on the actions of the Financial Regulator yesterday to appoint provisional administrators to QUINN-Insurance Limited (QIL), which we consider to be pre-emptive, aggressive and unnecessary.

As a preliminary matter, we wish to confirm that the QUINN-group and QIL are fully able to meet all of their payment obligations, and (except as disrupted by the Regulator’s Actions) our business continues as normal. Policyholders of QUINN-direct, QUINN-life and QUINN-healthcare, and staff, customers and suppliers of the entire QUINN-group, should continue to deal with us as usual.

The Financial Regulator has justified his actions on the grounds of "certain matters within QIL that have very recently come to light". We understand that he is referring to guarantees provided by certain subsidiaries of QIL, some dating back to 2005, supporting the general indebtedness of the QUINN-group. These guarantees are entirely lawful, do not breach any insurance regulations, and were fully disclosed in the statutory accounts of the relevant companies.

We reviewed these guarantees in the context of our current refinancing, and sought the opinion of the Financial Regulator last week. He took the view that the guarantees were inappropriate. Since then we, our financiers and our respective advisers have been working around the clock to respond to the Regulator’s questions and to address his concerns. The guarantees have not been called upon, there was no reason to believe that they would be called upon, and the Regulator was provided with comfort on this by our financiers, most recently in a meeting on Monday 29 March. QUINN-group is in the process of negotiating a refinancing which would have addressed the concerns of the Regulator, and we and our financiers remain confident that this will be achieved. Therefore, the Regulator’s analysis that these guarantees give rise to a €448m liability is totally incorrect. The Regulator's demand that the guarantees be released was therefore unnecessary, and not practical in the time which he allowed.

In the light of all these facts, of which the Regulator was well aware, we believe the Regulator made the wrong decision. We do not believe that his decision was in the interests of any of the relevant stakeholders - QUINN-group, its staff, its customers or indeed the Irish Exchequer, which has received well in excess of €1bn in tax from QUINN-group since it was established in 1973. Indeed, we note that yesterday was marked by significant announcements in relation to the Irish economy and the banking sector, and it is highly ironic that, on that same day, the Regulator's action was taken in respect of one of the most successful Irish companies, providing crucial jobs in the export sector.

Even if the Regulator’s concerns in relation to QIL were well-founded (which we dispute), it is extraordinary that the Regulator was unwilling to give the necessary time to work through those concerns, rather than taking precipitate action which damages the interests of all stakeholders, including the State.

Separately the Financial Regulator has directed QIL to cease writing new business in the UK, and has commented that the UK business is currently unprofitable. We entirely disagree with this statement and unless reversed, this direction will be immensely damaging to the future prospects of QIL.

While we work through the issues which have been caused by the Financial Regulator’s actions, QIL remains focussed on the future and will continue to provide a high level of service to all of its customers. We thank our staff, throughout the QUINN-group and especially in QIL, for their continued commitment to the business. We remain totally committed to working with them, and our customers, to get through this difficult period.

Notes for editors:

The QUINN-group employs 5,500 people in Ireland of which 2,700 are employed in QIL.
The Group is (disregarding the effect of the Financial Regulator’s actions) on target to achieve cash profits of between €45m and €50m in the first quarter of 2010, and over €20m in each subsequent month during 2010, and between €1.1bn and €1.2bn over the next 3 years. How many Irish companies can say this today?

For further information contact:
Brian Bell, WHPR
Tel: (01) 669 0030

31 Mar 2010

38man · 31-03-2010 10:12PM

gleep wrote: »

Reading between the lines, what they've been doing is using policy holder's premiums as guarentees for other areas of the business. These guarentees where in the form of investments. The investments have now lost most of their value and the creditors wnt paying back, leaving their pot of cash to cover claims seriously depleted. I wonder how much was invested in Anglo????

well i think and run a buisness that quinn right to move finances from company to company if need be

the regulator just ruined a viaable buisnee and should be ashamed of them selves it
pay back time from government for some of anglo deaths
quinn put cavan on the map done more for cavan fermanagh than our government
regulator as usual cracking his power when it too late and going after the wrong man
bolting the door when the horse is out

but has just ruined prospect of mainting jobs that we are scarce of

i would trust sean quinn to run our goverment and do a better job

he would make a better regulator on them how to run a buisness and cut down on waste
like leaving 448 million in an account making no money
for a cushion just borrow it as u need it is common sense to me

so paul mcann and michael mcateer and the regulator and whos trying to abuse there power from goverment look at your selves and leave ordinary working people alone
wat kinda judge let this happen to a very profitable company u deserve to be relieved of your power

yours truly
local cavan farmer

DonJose · 31-03-2010 10:23PM

38man wrote: »

well i think and run a buisness that quinn right to move finances from company to company if need be

the regulator just ruined a viaable buisnee and should be ashamed of them selves it
pay back time from government for some of anglo deaths
quinn put cavan on the map done more for cavan fermanagh than our government
regulator as usual cracking his power when it too late and going after the wrong man
bolting the door when the horse is out

but has just ruined prospect of mainting jobs that we are scarce of

i would trust sean quinn to run our goverment and do a better job

he would make a better regulator on them how to run a buisness and cut down on waste
like leaving 448 million in an account making no money
for a cushion just borrow it as u need it is common sense to me

so paul mcann and michael mcateer and the regulator and whos trying to abuse there power from goverment look at your selves and leave ordinary working people alone
wat kinda judge let this happen to a very profitable company u deserve to be relieved of your power

yours truly
local cavan farmer

feck the regulator, feck the government, they can take our land but they'll never take our shift keys...

38man · 01-04-2010 10:42PM

well 70% of quinn in uk so they stopped it imeeadiately
and people are canceling policy by the thousands
wat a stupid regulator to ruin a good buisness
the
harm will be done by 12 april before court case
local farmer

my wife work there

Dionysus · 01-04-2010 10:58PM

Seán Quinn has just given a very rare 30-minute interview to RTÉ that is available on the RTÉ website now:

http://www.rte.ie/news/index.html

I never heard him speak before. He sounds really down-to-earth, like anybody else around the borderlands. But he is angry with the regulator, and fighting. He is warning that thousands of jobs could be lost because of this.

Farls · 02-04-2010 12:12PM

If anyone is on facebook you can join the following groups:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=105131132859786

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=114786328535639

Also there is a rally organised in Cavan by the Chamber of Commerce

Time:5:30PM Wednesday, April 7th
Location: Market Square, Main Street, Cavan

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=114961675181375

Nodin · 02-04-2010 12:24PM

Considering that this is a man whose previous sharp practice earned his company a 3.25 Million fine, as well as 200,000 levied against himself, you'll pardon me for not taking his word that its the regulator thats at fault.

However it would be unfortunate if jobs are lost over this, as times are hard enough.

Buford T Justice · 02-04-2010 12:41PM

The missus claimed off her insurance there as a result of some dumb bint pulling out in front of her.

They forked out the cash no hassle cos they knew they were getting it back. Its all been settled now but they are saying that they have no record of receiving their cash even though they have got it. She's spent hours trying to get this sorted and is just hitting a brick wall.

Crooks.

RoadKillTs · 02-04-2010 01:25PM

The regulator has got it very wrong here. Plenty of cash in the company. What a fu*k up! :mad:

Jason McCabe · 02-04-2010 01:45PM

The goverment and all their ****in cronies should clear the **** off.

A decent business gets dragged through the mud while the shower of incompetants keep wreckin the economy and taxing the **** out of every business in the country

RoadKillTs · 02-04-2010 01:57PM

The goverment and all their ****in cronies should clear the **** off.

A decent business gets dragged through the mud while the shower of incompetants keep wreckin the economy and taxing the **** out of every business in the country

This is a total disaster. The banks said they would revise their guarantees with Quinn. The company was solvent, profitable and 100 million in cash.

As he said himself he owes Anglo the guts of 2.5 billion which he is paying back, if he put out of business that will be another few billion that will have to be wrote off not to mention the possible loss of 2,800 jobs.

Why didn't the regulator allow sufficient time for Quinn and the banks to sort out the guarantee? The banks talked to and met the regulator and explained there was no issue with Quinn. The regulator expected the issue to be resolved within a day?

Have to say I'm prity angry about this. Our Government are putting a lot of peoples livelihoods in jeopardy.

Farls · 02-04-2010 02:00PM

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/

Slightly down the page on the right hand side

Quinn is loosing at the moment, I would say mainly due to the 'They took ages to sort out my claim' gang. FFS.

cornbb · 02-04-2010 02:31PM

Sean Quinn created thousands of jobs in a part of Ireland that really needs them, it's clear he has a lot of support from people in that area. But the fact is that he gambled with money that was supposed to be reserved for paying out insurance claims. Quinn put themselves at risk, not the regulator. It's the regulators' job to stamp out bad financial practices like this, and it was a lack of regulation that got us in this mess in the first place! Why should a blind eye be turned to Quinn's dodgy dealings?

I really hope no-one loses their jobs, but if they do you can hardly blame the regulator for regulating. Rules is rules.

RoadKillTs · 02-04-2010 02:43PM

but if they do you can hardly blame the regulator for regulating. Rules is rules.

And where was the regulator over the last ten years? When financial intuitions were running riot lending left right and centre. Where was the regulation then?

Sean Quinn has made mistakes but he is nothing compared to the banks. I don't think there was any shady dealings. He invested far too much into a bank and lost badly.

My points still stands, he is a huge employer with a profitable company. He should be allowed trade. Any idea the strain of over 2000 more people on Social Welfare? Not to mention the 3 billion of debt that would have to be written off from his debt on Anglo.

The Government / Regulator are making a huge mistake here and I hope to God they realise that before April the 12th.

Gophur · 02-04-2010 02:49PM

RoadKillTs wrote: »

And where was the regulator over the last ten years? When financial intuitions were running riot lending left right and centre. Where was the regulation then?

Sean Quinn has made mistakes but he is nothing compared to the banks. I don't think there was any shady dealings. He invested far too much into a bank and lost badly.

My points still stands, he is a huge employer with a profitable company. He should be allowed trade. Any idea the strain of over 2000 more people on Social Welfare? Not to mention the 3 billion of debt that would have to be written off from his debt on Anglo.

The Government / Regulator are making a huge mistake here and I hope to God they realise that before April the 12th.

You are well off the mark. This "crisis" is 100% Sean Quinn's making. He has been using the Insurance company as his Cash Cow, a vehicle for the enrichment of his family and for speculative dealings worldwide. Quinn owe Anglo Irish Bank €2.9B, an enormous sum of money, a sum nobody forced him to borrow.

How about some of these protesters saying something to the real culprit in all of this, not the Financial Regulator who is doing his job rather well.

If 2,000 jobs end up being lost, Sean Quinn is the man to blame, nobody else!

Quinn Insurance group: administrators just appointed

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