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If an underage teenage couple have sex, the boy can be charged but the girl can't

  • 26-03-2010 06:31PM
    #1
    iptba
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭


    This was mentioned on the Discrimination against Men thread but deserves its own thread:

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0326/court.html
    Challenge to 'Romeo and Juliet' law rejected

    Friday, 26 March 2010 14:16

    A man who is charged with having sex with a 14-year-old girl when he was 15, has lost his high court challenge to the law under which he is charged.

    The man, who is now 18, had claimed that the section 2006 law - that allows him to be prosecuted, while no charges can be brought against the girl - was old fashioned gender-based discrimination for which the State had no justification.

    He is charged under the so-called 'Romeo and Juliet' law - Criminal Law Offences Act 2006 and faces a maximum of five years in jail if convicted. Under the same act, a girl under 17 cannot be charged with the same offence


«1

Comments

  • #2
    iptba
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭iptba


    An interesting aspect to this law is that they didn't put the age of consent at the same age: it's 16 for males and 17 for females. Even though, on average, women mature physically and most people would say, emotionally, earlier.*

    * I read something that said by age 29 males catch up but that's a different discussion.


  • #3
    Khannie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,485 ✭✭✭✭Khannie


    Classic irish lunacy really. 15 and 14 year old in sex shocker!


  • #4
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    Very sad case.

    Another but in the US: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=wilson

    A 17yr old serving a 10 year sentence for having consensual oral sex not intercourse with a 15yr old. "because of an archaic Georgia law, it was a misdemeanor for teenagers less than three years apart to have sexual intercourse, but a felony for the same kids to have oral sex. "

    The law was changed because of this case...
    "Afterward, the state legislature changed the law to include an oral sex clause, but that doesn't help Wilson. In yet another baffling twist, the law was written to not apply to cases retroactively"
    but he still remains in prison because it was the law at the time, ridiculous.


  • #5
    Kournikova
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 243 ✭✭Kournikova


    This is such bs, typical of the crappy laws we have on things.


  • #6
    deadhead13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    I remember the case hitting the headlines last December and fully expected the judge to find in favour of the boy. Surely the State's justification for the provision in the legislation, i.e. an underage girl would be deterred from having in sex by the prospect of becoming pregnant, would be negated by the use of contraception.

    How legislation to protect young teens from predatory adults resulted in the criminalisation of teenage boys is beyond me. The Law is an ass.


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  • #7
    Random
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,080 ✭✭✭✭Random


    Absolute ****ing double standards nonsense.


  • #8
    keane2097
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,893 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    It's actually hard to make a coherent point in this discussion, because the point we're arguing against is so self-evidently corrupt as to make the blood boil.


  • #9
    Mimikyu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,045 ✭✭✭✭Mimikyu


    This post has been deleted.


  • #10
    entropi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,731 ✭✭✭✭entropi


    It's an absolute joke tbh, harks back to the days pre-1970 when religion ruled this country...

    Gender discrimination of the highest order, and it stinks!:mad:


  • #11
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,772 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    What concerns me also is that someone must has pressed charges in this case.


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  • #12
    Clemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Clemon


    Jjustice in ireland is a joke ..They let priest moleste children without a word being said but they lock up a teenager for this


  • #13
    hitlersson666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,544 ✭✭✭hitlersson666


    Considering im 15 this thread does bring across some frighting points but then I though that maybe its the Courts trying to frighten young people against underage sex :confused


  • #14
    PrettyBoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,213 ✭✭✭PrettyBoy


    Absolutely ridiculous law.
    The Corinthian wrote: »
    What concerns me also is that someone must has pressed charges in this case.

    The girls father IIRC.


  • #15
    iptba
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭iptba


    hitlersson666 wrote: »
    Considering im 15 this thread does bring across some frighting points but then I though that maybe its the Courts trying to frighten young people against underage sex :confused
    The ruling may not be the best but it was our politicians who came up with the law - and that was only in 2006.


  • #16
    iptba
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭iptba


    PrettyBoy wrote: »
    The girls father IIRC.
    Can you or anyone check that?

    You could be right but I'm just wondering is it being confused with a case
    where a 19 year old from the Midlands (Mullingar I think) was convicted for having sex with his 16.75 years old (16 years, 9 months) girlfriend. In that case, her father reported them.

    Here's a report on an earlier court sitting in the 15/14 year old case, where the male team give their objections:
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1217/1224260840039.html


  • #17
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,769 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    I can understand (though certainly not condone, I think he's a prick) that some father's would report this guy.

    What I don't understand is the DPP actually upholding the case. I mean does this mean they think this lad is a danger to society?

    Imagine he gets a custodial sentence, utter insanity. I don't think it will happen but it is theoretically possible. Imagine you're were him, sitting in a jail cell thinking "I am living in a western democratic country and I am sitting in a prison surrounded by rapists and paedophiles for having sex with a girl 1 year younger than me"


  • #18
    iptba
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭iptba


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    I can understand (though certainly not condone, I think he's a prick) that some father's would report this guy.

    What I don't understand is the DPP actually upholding the case. I mean does this mean they think this lad is a danger to society?

    Imagine he gets a custodial sentence, utter insanity. I don't think it will happen but it is theoretically possible. Imagine you're were him, sitting in a jail cell thinking "I am living in a western democratic country and I am sitting in a prison surrounded by rapists and paedophiles for having sex with a girl 1 year younger than me"
    Yes. Also having any sort of criminal record isn't good. I think there is some discretion in whether he is placed on the Sex Offenders' register so might not happen in this case but might happen with a slightly bigger age gap and the wrong judge (not that I'd like to see too big an age gap but say 17 and 15 or 18 and 16 is sort of normal for teenage relationships).


  • #19
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,769 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    That's really worrying. Makes you wonder what sort of f*ckwits are in the DPP.

    Is there any indication this will be taken to the supreme court? The argument put forward by his counsel seems pretty strong to me.


  • #20
    The_Minister
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    iptba wrote: »
    The ruling may not be the best but it was our politicians who came up with the law - and that was only in 2006.

    It was a compromise that was brought in after Fine Gael went nuts at the Gubberment destroying morals (though certain FF backbenchers were not innocent either). Originally there was going to be a Romeo and Juliet clause in the legislation, allowing for couples of really close ages to avoid being criminalised.


  • #21
    iptba
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭iptba


    The_Minister wrote: »
    It was a compromise that was brought in after Fine Gael went nuts at the Gubberment destroying morals (though certain FF backbenchers were not innocent either). Originally there was going to be a Romeo and Juliet clause in the legislation, allowing for couples of really close ages to avoid being criminalised.
    What was the compromise element of it?


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  • #22
    iptba
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭iptba


    Hasn't happened yet of course. May be a meaningless gesture.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/1231/1224286547392.html?digest=1
    Government proposes lowering age of sexual consent to 16

    JAMIE SMYTH Social Affairs Correspondent

    THE GOVERNMENT will publish new proposals to lower the age of consent to 16 years, down from the current age of 17, early in the new year.

    [..]

    He said the Government would probably not have time to pass the legislation into law but he appealed to the Labour Party, if it entered a coalition with Fine Gael, to continue to support the 16-year-old limit.

    During discussions at the Oireachtas committee, which was chaired by Mary O’Rourke, Fine Gael supported maintaining the current age of consent at 17 years, while Labour supported 16 years.


  • #23
    thethedev
    Closed Accounts Posts: 300 ✭✭thethedev


    Absolute bull****.

    I would make a good point but I'm too angry, and I dont think any points need to be raised, its pretty obvious to any sane person why this makes no sense.


  • #24
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,968 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

    What I don't understand is the DPP actually upholding the case. I mean does this mean they think this lad is a danger to society?

    The DPP follows the law, it's the legislature that amends it.

    And yes, it absolute bull**** and discriminatory.
    One day, a convict with the money and ability might appeal this to Europe and Ireland will be made to look like fools

    And another thing, if you met a girl in a nightclub you might assume she is over 18 but no, you can't use that in court and people have been convicted despite this.


  • #25
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    I had a thread and poll in AH when the appeal against this law failed. With one or two bizarre exceptions from people who voted in the poll in support of the law but didn't have any argument whatsoever to present in a post (I wonder why? :rolleyes: ). Everyone agreed it was a disgrace.

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055866378


  • #26
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,968 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    If I were a lawyer with some money in reserve and looking to make a name for myself, I'd look to take this to Europe.

    But I'm not a lawyer in Ireland so I just don't know but I have faith this law will be struck down some day


  • #27
    Galvasean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    strobe wrote: »
    I had a thread and poll in AH when the appeal against this law failed. With one or two bizarre exceptions from people who voted in the poll in support of the law but didn't have any argument whatsoever to present in a post (I wonder why? :rolleyes: ). Everyone agreed it was a disgrace.

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055866378

    7 too many people voted in agreement with the law. I really hope they clicked the wrong button.


  • #28
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 27,466 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Galvasean wrote: »
    7 too many people voted in agreement with the law. I really hope they clicked the wrong button.

    Parents of 15 year old girls maybe.

    Daft law, sadly not the only one we have.


  • #29
    Galvasean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Does anyone know what was the original reasoning behind why the age of consent is different between sexes?


  • #30
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 27,466 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Does anyone know what was the original reasoning behind why the age of consent is different between sexes?

    I presume because women are pure and harmless creatures with no discernible sex drive and men are hairy beasts closer to the animal wanting to stick it in anything that moves, or something (perhaps not in those terms).


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  • #31
    The_Minister
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Does anyone know what was the original reasoning behind why the age of consent is different between sexes?

    :confused: Pretty sure the age of consent is the same - 17 years.


This discussion has been closed.
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