Don't buy Fair Trade its not Fair

star.chaser · 26-03-2010 06:41PM

Winty wrote: »

Everywhere you look you now see “Fair Trade” coffee, chocolate, fruit they even sell Fair Trade in Leinster House as the only available coffee.

The liberal amongst us say that we should always look for the Fair Trade logo as it helps poor farmers in poor countries; well that’s wrong and I will prove why.

Picture the scene

Two small islands in the Caribbean ocean with one farmer on each island growing Bananas.

Each box of Bananas is sold to an agent for $100 a box.
The agent then sells to Tesco.

Each farmer has a small income but his children have food and can go to school, they are not rich but they survive.

Irish people start asking Tesco for Fair Trade Bananas, Tesco think great we can get a bit of extra cash for the 20% of people who want to pay a bit more.
Tesco calls fair trade and they put him in contact with the agent in the Caribbean.

The agent goes to 1 of the farmers and gets him signed up to the Fair Trade Scheme; he is over the moon because he now gets paid $110 per box. With the extra money he is not rich but only a tiny bit better off.

Meanwhile Tesco don’t need as many “normal” bananas in its shops in Ireland because 20% of the customers want the “Fair Trade” one.

Now farmer number 2 who is not in the “Fair Trade” scheme has seen his money fall to $80 per box. He is really in trouble and with the drop in money needs the kids to stay and home and work and not go to school.

So at the start both farmers were making a small amount of money but they were surviving. Now one is a tidy bit better of, where the other is now living on the edge.

Is “Fair Trade” Fair.

is that a true story?

picture this. farmer 1 and farmer 2 are not in the fair trade program. they can't afford to send their kids to school as they need them to work on the farm just to make ends meet. farmer 1 enters the program and now he can send his kids to school with the extra money.

BizzyC · 26-03-2010 06:44PM

Winty wrote: »

No you missed the point, Tesco would not want all the bananas to be Fair Trade as its not in a big demand, so only one farmer is needed to produce Fair Trade so the other one looses out as Tesco will reduce his price because as it will be selling less

You missed my point....
If Tesco do that, they will no longer be a "Fair Trade company" and wont be allowed to label any Tesco brands as Fair Trade. It's a company wide label, it doesn't depend on their treatment of a single farmer, it's how they treat all of the farmers...

Winty · 26-03-2010 06:47PM

BizzyC wrote: »

You missed my point....
If Tesco do that, they will no longer be a "Fair Trade company" and wont be allowed to label any Tesco brands as Fair Trade. It's a company wide label, it doesn't depend on their treatment of a single farmer, it's how they treat all of the farmers...

No that can be, so you are saying Tesco must treat every farmer across the world to be able to sell Fair Trade

They pick a handful of farmers to sell the pricer product and Fu*k the rest

ScumLord · 26-03-2010 06:52PM

landsleaving wrote: »

The demand is the same. The farmer of the normal bananas will sell the same amount... at the same price because the bananas are the same. It's just a different sticker. They're not magic or anything.

If tesco bought 100 banana boxes, they'd just stick a sticker on 20%. There is no reduction in demand whatsoever. The farmers will produce the same amount, one farmer will just make a little more. How does demand fall. 80 + 20% is still 100% of bananas, which is what was being produced previously.

If one farmer was making 10% more than everyone else on the poverty line because he was in a special international scheme (possible government backed) you can be guaranteed it would be a major issue if it happened here.

I can see Wintys point it's not exactly fair trade. Some farmers win a lottery to earn slightly more money so that Tescos can pretend to be a kinder caring company that isn't destroying the quality of food, sustainable farming and taking advantage of everyone they can for profit. It's not fair for the other farmers and the ones that do benefit are just getting paid to smile for the camera.

ejmaztec · 26-03-2010 06:57PM

opinion guy wrote: »

Oh so you're confirming you pulled the figures out of your ass then ?

No sh1t.

Nevermind_ · 26-03-2010 06:57PM

There was a panorama programme a few nights ago that dealt with some of the issues youre talking about here, only it was cocoa not bananas.

It shows exactly how fair trade works and exposes some off its shortcomings using the microcosm of just the cocoa/chocolate industry.

After watching it I felt Fair Trade while not perfect is still a good thing.

Well worth a look if you have the time...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/default.stm

biko · 26-03-2010 06:58PM

I never buy Made in China, the clothes never last. Children has no sense of quality.

landsleaving · 26-03-2010 07:01PM

ScumLord wrote: »

If one farmer was making 10% more than everyone else on the poverty line because he was in a special international scheme (possible government backed) you can be guaranteed it would be a major issue if it happened here.

I can see Wintys point it's not exactly fair trade. Some farmers win a lottery to earn slightly more money so that Tescos can pretend to be a kinder caring company that isn't destroying the quality of food, sustainable farming and taking advantage of everyone they can for profit. It's not fair for the other farmers and the ones that do benefit are just getting paid to smile for the camera.

I'm not arguing that one farmer earning more is fair, nor am I disputing that one farmer will earn more, but the other farmer won't earn less,and he was doing ok in the story. Some people make more for the same job here as well. His argument is based on a fallacy. I expect it revised and on my desk by Monday.

billybigunz · 26-03-2010 07:02PM

Fair trade is a distortion of the free market which is inherently fair.

It only exists as a form of price discrimination. Middle class guilt is a marketers dream.

Sheeps · 26-03-2010 07:03PM

The second banana farmer probably didn't make the fair trade requirements because he's got children that he bought working 12 hours a day and doing a little bit of prostitution on the side. All is fair.

landsleaving · 26-03-2010 07:04PM

billybigunz wrote: »

Fair trade is a distortion of the free market which is inherently fair.

Only only exists as a form of price discrimination. Middle class guilt is a marketers dream.

So is communism. Doesn't mean it works out that way in reality.

Midnight_EG · 26-03-2010 07:19PM

If one of the farmers only uses Fair Trade, then his share of the market for normal bananas goes to the other farmer, so in essence the other farmer wins.

biko · 26-03-2010 11:02PM

Free market is inherently unfair, it will inevitably create cartels and protectionism.
But that's another discussion.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 26-03-2010 11:05PM

Why doesn't farmer two just join the scheme?

Midnight_EG · 26-03-2010 11:08PM

Eliza Sticky Loop wrote: »

Why doesn't farmer two just join the scheme?

Because then he's competing with Farmer 1 again, losing money yet again.

Sprouts · 26-03-2010 11:12PM

The 2nd farmer should grow something thats not banannas, sorted.

star.chaser · 26-03-2010 11:17PM

they should scrap the bananas and start growing hash plants.

surdah · 26-03-2010 11:43PM

I have seen Fair Trade products from some countries where I know for a fact that the money does not go directly to the farmers but goes to the corrupt government who pay the farmer a pittance. I know this because I was friends with lots of people from these countries who told me this. So I am very dubious about the whole thing it is just another marketing strategy which tries to appeal to the "save the planet" "down with globalisation" hippy part of us a bit like the whole global warming crap!

brianthebard · 26-03-2010 11:47PM

Winty wrote: »

The 2 islands may not be real, so some is theory, but the fact that some win and some loose is true, ask anyone

Its called capitalism.

opinion guy · 26-03-2010 11:58PM

star.chaser wrote: »

they should scrap the bananas and start growing hash plants.

Is there Fair Trade hash now too ?

27-03-2010 11:15AM

I can't believe OP's little story got 50 replies.. Slow week guys?

cafecolour · 27-03-2010 11:44AM

A bit off topic, but I read a book about the banana's history and it's insane. Basically demand for it at the beginning of last century led to one company (the united fruit company) essentially being able to topple and control governments in south america (thus the phrase banana republic for those it set up).

opinion guy · 27-03-2010 11:55AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I can't believe OP's little story got 50 replies.. Slow week guys?

Yeha kinda. haven't you noticed baords is slow lately ?

On a side note. THeres some disease afecting bananas thats threatening to wipe them out. Modern bananas are infertile so they are all grafts from other trees. THere's a big search on for aborignial banana trees to try to find ones that are immune to the disease. At least thats what I heard anyhow.

sron · 27-03-2010 11:58AM

Winty wrote: »

We need people to be poor or we wont be rich

If a banker said this to the press he'd he lynched. I suppose it must be different for the middle class.

27-03-2010 12:09PM

opinion guy wrote: »

Yeha kinda. haven't you noticed baords is slow lately ?

On a side note. THeres some disease afecting bananas thats threatening to wipe them out. Modern bananas are infertile so they are all grafts from other trees. THere's a big search on for aborignial banana trees to try to find ones that are immune to the disease. At least thats what I heard anyhow.

Ah they'll be banned soon enough anyways so it doesn't matter.. Wait till Joe Duffy hears that if ya eat too many, they could kill ya. The whole country will be in uproar.

goat2 · 27-03-2010 12:14PM

Winty wrote: »

This is my simple theory, I will work more on the fine details but its based on facts I have read.

Alot of people in the industry see Fair Trade as a joke

so you are going to visit these two farmers, see what they have to say

dlofnep · 27-03-2010 01:10PM

OP lacks any understanding of fair trade, on any level whatsoever.

opinion guy · 27-03-2010 01:11PM

dlofnep wrote: »

OP lacks any understanding of fair trade economics, on any level whatsoever.

FYP

colly10 · 27-03-2010 01:13PM

landsleaving wrote: »

The amount of banans needed remains the same. It's irrelevant the exact amount, but lets assume a 50/50 split in prouction. Farmer 1, who is now selling fairtrade, continues making 50% of the banans, of which 20% (of the 100) are fairtrade, so he makes x amount more. The other farmer continues selling 50% of his 'normal' banana. But why would his price need to drop? There are no less bananas being prouduced, so no price drop per box is necessary. One farmer is simply lucky enough to make a little more on some of his bananas.

Drop in demand due to increase in demand for fair trade bananas. Price comes down to supply and demand

opinion guy · 27-03-2010 01:22PM

colly10 wrote:

Drop in demand due to increase in demand for fair trade bananas. Price comes down to supply and demand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzjbV-yTomY

Don't buy Fair Trade its not Fair

Comments