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How do you explain ghosts/the supernatural?

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  • #32
    del88
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭del88


    Mental illness....scamers (Derek Acorah)....religious euphoria...media hype...natural human fear....social conditioning....drugs....drink......lies....


  • #33
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    They nearly all have simple rational, natural explanations, and for those who don't, the person telling the story (aren't they always either anecdotes or else photos) could be lying, or mistaken, or embellishing, or being influenced by others' claims, or else their perception is being tricked.

    There's lots of explanations that make more sense than 'a ghost' :)


  • #34
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    fluorescence wrote: »
    How do you explain these sort of phenomena

    I don't

    Trying to explain things when you don't actually have an explanation is what gets people into trouble.

    "Supernatural explanation" is just another word for "guess"


  • #35
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    Labelling something a phenomena almost gives it credence. Personally I've lost count of the times I've woken up to scary looking **** in my bedroom that after a few seconds looking resolve into the shadows of ordinary bedroom junk. It's all simply imagination running wild and not helped by years of scary Hollywood movies :) (damn j00 Aliens)

    I don't believe in any of it.


  • #36
    Wacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,057 ✭✭✭Wacker


    Goduznt Xzst wrote: »
    Maybe Jesus made a 3 point basket, all net, from 70 yards out and the myth of his greatness spread, with each person adding their own little flavor to the story... and now, here we are. Here. We. Are.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7CyP54B25w



    Jesus, is that you.....?

    Oh, I am sooo going to hell!:D


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  • #37
    mjg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 140 ✭✭mjg


    People are capable of believing anything.:(

    Off topic I know, but on my way to work this morning I saw a poster for a "Psychic to the stars", can't remember the name, who will be appearing here Saturday week.

    I'd love to go, just to see her antics but I don't think that I could bring myself to hand over the €15, it would sicken me a little to think that I was helping to fund her "career".



    I wonder if I snuck in would she sense my presence and denounce me from the stage!:eek:


  • #38
    gonnaplayrugby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 453 ✭✭gonnaplayrugby


    spider guardian wrote: »
    Your handsome dead boyfriend is not gonna love you as a ghost.

    Your dead relatives are not going to watch over you and protect you.

    That old indian burial ground you built your house on will not consume your soul.

    That noise or shadow you thought you heard/saw was probably just a ninja.

    Sorry dude

    How about the voice that called out to me and my sister one night? There was nobody in the room....NOBODY. I'm sorry but somtimes there is a need to be a little open. Anything is possible.

    I don't even believe in ghosts but there is a great chance after what I heard that night. Both myself and my sister heard it and our story has never changed.


  • #39
    fatmammycat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    I don't believe in ghosts, fairies, vampires, JC(;):):pac::pac::pac::pac::P,) fire breathing dragons, reiki ( vomits), crystals, animal telepaths, telepaths, fortune readers, Joe Coleman, Saints, Angels, Hell, Heaven, Demons, God, Saten,Demonic posession, spirit guides, that water reacts emotionally to yelling ( no seriously) or any other ridiculous clap trap people put a lot of unsubstantiated stock in. It is BEYOND belief -to me-that so many people vocally believe so much rubbish.


  • #40
    iUseVi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭iUseVi


    gonnaplayrugby wrote: »
    How about the voice that called out to me and my sister one night? There was nobody in the room....NOBODY. I'm sorry but somtimes there is a need to be a little open. Anything is possible.

    Is anything possible, really? There are a hundred explanations for a perceived voice that are more plausible before you reach ghosts. Wind, hallucinations, practical joke, radio playing up etc.


  • #41
    gonnaplayrugby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 453 ✭✭gonnaplayrugby


    well maby it was a voice from another dimension or some crap but the joke, hallucination and radio guesses are less plausible than it being a ghost


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  • #42
    Dr. Loon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭Dr. Loon


    gonnaplayrugby wrote: »
    well maby it was a voice from another dimension or some crap but the joke, hallucination and radio guesses are less plausible than it being a ghost

    How so? What about the wind?

    I've had a few experiences in my life, that at the time convinced me there were ghosts.
    The first was a graveyard when I was younger, where I heard whailing and chains rattling. At the time I was scared shítless, but shortly after it happened I thought about it logically and realised it was either a practical joke or an expectation of my brain, a delusion.

    The second was a friends house, where someone tapped me on the shoulder, but there was no-one there. This house was beside the same graveyard from above. I told me friend what had happened and he said weird **** always happened in the house. I now think that he had told me this before and I'd forgotten. Also, the fact that this graveyard was involved probably had some unconscious associations in my brain.

    The third was in London in my sisters house. She had claimed she thought there was a ghost in the house. I woke up one night but couldn't move, and something was shuffling around the end of my bed. I was gripped by fear and trying to scream but nothing was coming out. Eventually I became unfrozen and all was fine. I've since learned these episodes are known as night terrors. I get them all the time to this day. They still scare the **** out of me, but I know there's no ghosts involved.

    What about this one recently....
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64946754#post64946754


  • #43
    iUseVi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭iUseVi


    gonnaplayrugby wrote: »
    well maby it was a voice from another dimension or some crap but the joke, hallucination and radio guesses are less plausible than it being a ghost

    Wait....a voice from another dimension is more plausible than a joke or an hallucination. Give me a break.


  • #44
    rccaulfield
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭rccaulfield


    Supernatural= ghosts, god and fairies for me. Id stay in any house anywhere for a bet.


  • #45
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    gonnaplayrugby wrote: »
    well maby it was a voice from another dimension or some crap but the joke, hallucination and radio guesses are less plausible than it being a ghost

    How is a hallucination the less plausible explanation? One is a well studied and documented psychological phenomena, well known to science for at least 150 years. The other is an unfounded, uncorroborated claim that homo sapiens leave some trace of themselves behind after they die, despite the fact that no other species does this, for no other reason other that other species don't have the intelligence to come up with such an idea... hmmmm. One has tonnes of evidence to back its case and can actually be demonstrated in the laboratory. The other has spurious evidence at best, and in no way can be tested for, just like all of the supernatural.

    When you think about it, some mild hallucination was probably the best guess of this above group. That or my evolutionary explanation above.


  • #46
    Nitochris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 122 ✭✭Nitochris


    I'd go with the general academic conclusions:

    Underlying psychological needs, e.g. recently bereaved
    Many ghost encounters can be explained by misinterpretation of events like creaking floorboards
    Ghost narratives often act as memento mori
    legend tripping
    Some may be fraudulent to drum up business for a "haunted attraction" or could have been faked by dishonest researchers, the infamous Harry Price Borley Rectory affair come to mind.

    Incidentally ghosts no longer rely on a belief in life after death. RC Finucane in his "Appearances of the dead: a cultural history of ghosts" has suggested that this shifted with the decline of religion in the past century, resulting in the scientification ghosts. This means that ghosts no longer have much to say about the afterlife (they use to leave messages) and are often explained using scientific sounding theories, like stone acting as a recording device (there was a good horror film on bbc years ago using this called The Stone Tape).


  • #47
    Galvasean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    A nice liitle video that may address some of tha points made here in this thread. From 53 seconds on there is an example related to ghosts. The full video is well worth the watch if you have the time.



  • #48
    gonnaplayrugby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 453 ✭✭gonnaplayrugby


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    How is a hallucination the less plausible explanation? One is a well studied and documented psychological phenomena, well known to science for at least 150 years. The other is an unfounded, uncorroborated claim that homo sapiens leave some trace of themselves behind after they die, despite the fact that no other species does this, for no other reason other that other species don't have the intelligence to come up with such an idea... hmmmm. One has tonnes of evidence to back its case and can actually be demonstrated in the laboratory. The other has spurious evidence at best, and in no way can be tested for, just like all of the supernatural.

    When you think about it, some mild hallucination was probably the best guess of this above group. That or my evolutionary explanation above.

    Nope. Two of us heard it.


  • #49
    gonnaplayrugby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 453 ✭✭gonnaplayrugby


    Galvasean wrote: »
    A nice liitle video taht may address some of teh points made here in this thread. From 53 secons on tehre is an example related to ghosts. The full video is well worth the watch if you have the time.


    poor video, that would be like me sayin a ghost exists becase paper flew off my table when i had the window opened. my experience was hearing a clear and audible voice which my sister also heard.


  • #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,874 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    gonnaplayrugby wrote: »
    Nope. Two of us heard it.
    Well how do you know both of you heard it?
    Maybe one heard something and the other simply became convinced they heard something after the fact.
    Or they where humouring the other person.
    Or they where taking the piss and trying to frighten them.
    Or it was part of a poorly executed practical joke.
    Or there was another person in the house someone wanted to keep hidden.
    Or ......

    And so on and so on.

    Do you honestly think that ghosts are more likely than any of these or the hundreds of other rational explanations it could be?

    Or of course there's the possibility an anonymous person on the internet isn't being truthful...


  • #51
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    gonnaplayrugby wrote: »
    Nope. Two of us heard it.

    It is still more likely that both of you were hallucinating then:

    The unfounded, uncorroborated claim that homo sapiens leave some trace of themselves behind after they die, despite the fact that no other species does this

    Sorry. But there are plenty of more likely explanations for this than the fantastical. Allow me to demonstrate, the following are more likely than the statement above:
    • Someone had spiked both of your drinks/dinner with drugs
    • You are both lying
    • You are both mistaken
    • Someone crept into your room
    • A bird near the window sounded like a voice
    • You were both hallucinating naturally
    • Your sister is deceiving you
    • Someone was playing a joke
    • Can anyone add to this list?

    I hope you don't take offence to the above, I am merely offering explanations which, in terms of probability, offer more than the unprovable. When you are ready to offer a method of testing for the supernatural in a double-blind, scientific test (the same test that all hypotheses must be run through) then I will be willing to consider the spook story. But you have no evidence. Nothing. Just an alleged voice. Do you not realise how shaky the ground is where you stand? It's not even vapour.


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  • #52
    gonnaplayrugby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 453 ✭✭gonnaplayrugby


    no i have no reason to lie. both my sister and i heard it. stop trying to be so 'rational' it just looks desperate. i think its best leave the voice as an unexplained mystery.


  • #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,874 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    gonnaplayrugby wrote: »
    no i have no reason to lie.
    That never stopped people from lying or embellishing the truth before.
    gonnaplayrugby wrote: »
    both my sister and i heard it.
    Or so you claim.
    I ask: again how do you know your sister heard it as well?
    gonnaplayrugby wrote: »
    stop trying to be so 'rational' it just looks desperate.
    So then we should start making wild unfounded guesses?
    In that case I believe the voice you heard was an invisible unicorn who wished to take you on a magical adventure.

    Since our rational explanations are so desperate maybe you can show how each of them can be excluded from your experience?
    gonnaplayrugby wrote: »
    i think its best leave the voice as an unexplained mystery.
    Yes that's what we're saying.
    You are saying the opposite and that the explanation must be a ghost.


  • #54
    Antbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 ✭✭✭Antbert


    gonnaplayrugby wrote: »
    no i have no reason to lie. both my sister and i heard it. stop trying to be so 'rational' it just looks desperate. i think its best leave the voice as an unexplained mystery.
    It looks so desperate?! What on earth are you talking about? You and your sister heard a voice. I hear a voice right now. Oh it's my neighbour calling his dog. Creepy stuff.

    Or, I dunno, one of the other million explanations already been offered to you.

    I don't necessarily think you're lying (although you're blatantly overly defensive, so you're probably lying).


  • #55
    gonnaplayrugby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 453 ✭✭gonnaplayrugby


    ok unlike you my life doesnt revolve around this **** so let me assure u im not lying. i no what i heard and it was most likely some kind of ghost. perhaps not but most likely.


  • #56
    gonnaplayrugby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 453 ✭✭gonnaplayrugby


    King Mob wrote: »
    That never stopped people from lying or embellishing the truth before.


    Or so you claim.
    I ask: again how do you know your sister heard it as well?


    So then we should start making wild unfounded guesses?
    In that case I believe the voice you heard was an invisible unicorn who wished to take you on a magical adventure.

    Since our rational explanations are so desperate maybe you can show how each of them can be excluded from your experience?


    Yes that's what we're saying.
    You are saying the opposite and that the explanation must be a ghost.


    Both me and my sister looked at each other when it called our name, we got up looked in to our parents room, it said something and we ran down stairs as fast as we could.

    Who knows what it was, but I think the voice had somethin to with paranormal activity.

    I'm saying it was most lkely a ghost.


  • #57
    iUseVi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭iUseVi


    gonnaplayrugby wrote: »
    ok unlike you my life doesnt revolve around this **** so let me assure u im not lying. i no what i heard and it was most likely some kind of ghost. perhaps not but most likely.

    Can I ask why you think its a ghost? Maybe it was a fairy or some other being. You are being very specific.


  • #58
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    You can't say for sure that it was a ghost. It could just as easily been God himself, Satan, invisible leprechauns, a talking teapot, a witch throwing her voice, martians, a sentient house etc, etc.
    Seriously, these are all just as likely as ghosts. Why would one think "ghost" and not one of the above? No need to answer that as it has already been done in this thread.


  • #59
    gonnaplayrugby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 453 ✭✭gonnaplayrugby


    ok it wasnt human...


  • #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,874 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    gonnaplayrugby wrote: »
    ok unlike you my life doesnt revolve around this **** so let me assure u im not lying.
    And again you have offered nothing to show you are not.
    People lie all the time. So some randomer on the internet making stuff up is a much more likely explanation than "ghost".
    gonnaplayrugby wrote: »
    i no what i heard and it was most likely some kind of ghost. perhaps not but most likely.
    And how do you know what you heard?
    How do you know your story was misremembered?
    How do you know you haven't slowly embellished over the years?
    gonnaplayrugby wrote: »
    Both me and my sister looked at each other when it called our name, we got up looked in to our parents room, it said something and we ran down stairs as fast as we could.
    So you were scared?
    That sure don't ever mess with people's perception.

    And again, how do you know you sister heard it?
    gonnaplayrugby wrote: »
    Who knows what it was, but I think the voice had somethin to with paranormal activity.
    So can you then explain how any of the explanations we've given can't possibly explain it?
    gonnaplayrugby wrote: »
    I'm saying it was most lkely a ghost.
    And why do you think it was a ghost?
    How do you know it wasn't a unicorn or fairy?


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  • #61
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    King Mob wrote: »
    How do you know it wasn't a unicorn or fairy?

    Don't be silly. Everyone knows that unicorns and fairies don't exist.


This discussion has been closed.
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