Why don't Gardai arrest/remove protesting Taxi men?

super_furry · 12-03-2010 04:39PM #1

Just looking at this video from earlier in the week when a group of militant Taxi drivers brought O'Connell Street to a standstill by blocking the LUAS. Not having a go at Gardai but are they under instruction to let them disrupt the flow of traffic? There's a sizable presence there yet I don't believe there was a single arrest made.

source · 12-03-2010 04:42PM

We live in a democracy, as such people have the right to peaceful gathering for the purpose of protest.

Arresting those taxi drivers would be in breach of their constitutional rights.

super_furry · 12-03-2010 04:45PM

Would it? I'm not being sarcastic, I genuinely don't know.

I mean I know if I were to stand in front of a LUAS in protest over a pay-cut or something similar, I'd expect to be arrested.

samhail · 12-03-2010 04:51PM

id be pissed off if i was on that luas... they those taxi drivers are interfering with me try to do what i wanted to do.
What about my constitutional rights !

i dont care what they want for themselves.
actually im going to walk next time instead of taking a taxi.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 12-03-2010 04:53PM

I agree with super_furry?

Surely you can't place yourself wherever you want if you're having a protest as long as it's peaceful. Then you could just blockade Garda stations etc.

Tefral · 12-03-2010 05:00PM

Article 40 section 6 of our constitution states:

The State guarantees liberty for the exercise of the following rights, subject to public order and morality:

ii. The right of the citizens to assemble peaceably and without arms.

Provision may be made by law to prevent or control meetings which are determined in accordance with law to be calculated to cause a breach of the peace or to be a danger or nuisance to the general public and to prevent or control meetings in the vicinity of either House of the Oireachtas.

While they maybe acting peacefully, standing on the luas tracks and road surely constitutes "nuisance" and they most certainly are a danger to themselves and the luas passengers...

Move em on i say......

source · 12-03-2010 05:06PM

Article 40.6 Bunreacht Na HÉireann

6. 1° The State guarantees liberty for the exercise of the following rights, subject to public order and morality:

i. The right of the citizens to express freely their convictions and opinions.
The education of public opinion being, however, a matter of such grave import to the common good, the State shall endeavour to ensure that organs of public opinion, such as the radio, the press, the cinema, while preserving their rightful liberty of expression, including criticism of Government policy, shall not be used to undermine public order or morality or the authority of the State.
The publication or utterance of blasphemous, seditious, or indecent matter is an offence which shall be punishable in accordance with law.

ii. The right of the citizens to assemble peaceably and without arms.
Provision may be made by law to prevent or control meetings which are determined in accordance with law to be calculated to cause a breach of the peace or to be a danger or nuisance to the general public and to prevent or control meetings in the vicinity of either House of the Oireachtas.

iii. The right of the citizens to form associations and unions.
Laws, however, may be enacted for the regulation and control in the public interest of the exercise of the foregoing right.

2° Laws regulating the manner in which the right of forming associations and unions and the right of free assembly may be exercised shall contain no political, religious or class discrimination.

At most what you see in that video is Endangering traffic, But i have to say not being based in Dublin i couldn't tell you if endangering traffic is applicable to a light rail system, as it wouldn't be covered under the Road Traffic Acts.

We also don't get all that many protests down this side of the country, but i would imagine that once there is no Public Order offences and as long as emergency services vehicles such as seen in the video are allowed through, then the protesters are left to get on with what they're doing.

maglite · 12-03-2010 05:21PM

I could be way off here and it is something I have wondered about for a time. Behaviour liky to lead to a breach of the peace. By their being there if a stressed business man, who needs to get to a meeting to keep his job is delayed by the protest, swings a fist.

Is that then implying the taxi men were acting in a manorr likly to lead to a breach of the peace

source · 12-03-2010 05:28PM

maglite wrote: »

I could be way off here and it is something I have wondered about for a time. Behaviour liky to lead to a breach of the peace. By their being there if a stressed business man, who needs to get to a meeting to keep his job is delayed by the protest, swings a fist.

Is that then implying the taxi men were acting in a manorr likly to lead to a breach of the peace

Now we're getting into really nitty gritty law discussion, which probably isn't the best for this forum, as there is a law forum on boards, however:

Lets take the love ulster march, would you say the marchers provoked a breach of the peace, or would you say that there were people around that decided to go mental and were intent on causing trouble that day? I'd say it's the latter, and that the marchers weren't causing a breach of the peace or acting in a manner so as to be reckless as to whether a breach of the peace might be occasioned.

now back to your description of the business man who looses it, If the protesters are just standing there, peacefully and the business man comes up and hits one of them then the business man is guilty of assault(the protesters aren't trying to cause a breach of the peace in this instance, or being wreckless, just standing there).

If the protesters are shouting obscenities and making a general nuisance of themselves, insulting passers by for not listening to them or what have you, then they would be causing a breach of the peace, and/or being wreckless as to whether one will be occasioned. The problem is that whether or not the protesters are causing a breach of the peace or not, the business man is still guilty of section 2 assault (depending on what kind of damage he does). As to whether one or both or none are arrested would be a call for the garda on duty on the day.

And yes for anyone that might ask, you are supposed to just ignore it, and contact the gardai, inform them of what is happening and they will deal with it through the public order acts.

Locust · 12-03-2010 06:31PM

breach of the peace - we're talking about public disorder and using the public order act. There is little power to arrest a peaceful demonstrator for under the public order act, they have to commit an offence therein. As said they have every right to hold their demonstration. I suppose if things turn nasty with shouting or pushy shovey well then that's a different story, i'm sure we would see the gardai making arrests.

12-03-2010 06:44PM

super_furry wrote: »

There's a sizable presence there yet I don't believe there was a single arrest made.

I count 10 gardai at most. Highly outnumbered there. And there was a protest going on further up the street and across at the taxi regulator's office.

donvito99 · 12-03-2010 07:08PM

foinse wrote: »

Lets take the love ulster march, would you say the marchers provoked a breach of the peace, or would you say that there were people around that decided to go mental and were intent on causing trouble that day? I'd say it's the latter, and that the marchers weren't causing a breach of the peace or acting in a manner so as to be reckless as to whether a breach of the peace might be occasioned.

I have to disagree with you there Foinse. Without getting anywhere near a 32 County Republic thread, aload of marchers who are clearly not welcome here is provocation. Its like aload of Celtic fans walking down the Shankill Road, or something along those lines.

I am in no way a republican, but was angered as a Dubliner, that this was ever allowed to go ahead, with thousands of euro worth of damage being done, and members of the public (fortunately Charlie Bird though) and Gardaí + other ES being injured.

Back OnT, I think that what those taxi drivers were doing qualifies as a nuisance, and is probably in breach of the relevant act.

How many thousands of commuters were effected by this unecessary action. I can sympathise with the taxi drivers, but is it really necessary to take it out on their customers?

Random · 12-03-2010 07:28PM

If me and a group of friends go out onto O'Connell St tomorrow to protest against these protests are the Gardai not gonna move us on either?

12-03-2010 07:29PM

donvito99 wrote: »

I have to disagree with you there Foinse. Without getting anywhere near a 32 County Republic thread, aload of marchers who are clearly not welcome here is provocation. Its like aload of Celtic fans walking down the Shankill Road, or something along those lines.

I am in no way a republican, but was angered as a Dubliner, that this was ever allowed to go ahead, with thousands of euro worth of damage being done, and members of the public (fortunately Charlie Bird though) and Gardaí + other ES being injured.

I don't support the Sinn Fein marches, or the Anti America / Israel marches but agree that they have a right to march / protest. I was angered when that protest against the Love Ulster march descended into a riot. And I'm a Dub too.

12-03-2010 07:30PM

Random wrote: »

If me and a group of friends go out onto O'Connell St tomorrow to protest against these protests are the Gardai not gonna move us on either?

We'll make an exception for you.

Random · 12-03-2010 07:33PM

foreign wrote: »

We'll make an exception for you.

I'm not trying to be funny.

challengemaster · 12-03-2010 07:38PM

Was fairly crazy the other day alright, most gardaí I've seen on O'Connell street ever... interesting to see a line of dublin bus' reversing up to the gpo and driving across the centre path to actually manage to get out....

The gardaí were taking every detail they could of the taxis though, I suppose, all they could...

BeardyGit · 12-03-2010 07:40PM

Would it be legal for members of the public to assemble for a peaceful protest which would effectively obstruct taxi's from making their way with a fare? I mean, could 100 folks assemble outside the old habitat building, stopping taxis from moving on and off the green, for the purpose of protesting against taxi drivers protesting? I'd give a few hours to that demonstration so I would. And then I'd take the LUAS home.....

Spook_ie · 12-03-2010 07:58PM

TBH I think you should give it a go, if it helped highlight the fact that the public wanted something done as well, regardless of it being to stop the protests, then maybe someone would actualy take the time to filter out the genuine grievences from the crap that makes good "sound bites" and actualy do something about it, you have my full support and in fact if you wish to arrange a mutualy acceptable time and place I'd glady allow you to obstruct my taxi in protest

parsi · 12-03-2010 08:04PM

Random wrote: »

I'm not trying to be funny.

We've seen before that taxi protests are treated with kid gloves - possibly due to the personalities involved - and allowed to obstruct traffic and cause major inconvenience.

The rest of the public have to give notice before they can take to the streets and protest. Indeed woe betide the poor joe soap who strays into a taxi-rank with his car or stops on a double-yellow for a second.

It's all down to numbers and attitudes - the larger the number and the worse the attitude , the more you'll get away with.

12-03-2010 08:15PM

parsi wrote: »

The rest of the public have to give notice before they can take to the streets and protest.

You want to show where that comes from? No notice is needed for any protest or march. People usually advertise it to get numbers along and contact the gardai to provide an escort so they can march safely. Thats why there was not reason why the Love Ulster march could be stopped.

parsi wrote: »

Indeed woe betide the poor joe soap who strays into a taxi-rank with his car or stops on a double-yellow for a second.

Woe betide the poor taxi driver who parks on the footpath, loading bay, double yellow line, clearway, stands for hire off rank, etc.

parsi · 12-03-2010 08:22PM

What about this one then:

" Wilful obstruction.
9.—Any person who, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, wilfully prevents or interrupts the free passage of any person or vehicle in any public place shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £200."

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0009.html#zza2y1994s9

DonJose · 12-03-2010 08:28PM

super_furry wrote: »

<mod snip>

Fixed your post :mad:

Turner · 12-03-2010 08:28PM

I wasnt there now but..

I presume the Gardai were not going to wade in in numbers and use force on these people to arrest them for obstructing traffic.

You can be sure senior Gardai were engaging with the leaders of the protest and also with the Taxi Regulator going from side to side trying to resolve the situation.

The protestors gathered, protested and left.

Some people were delayed and have a right to be pissed off.

No arrests, no court cases, no ombudsman cases and no injuries.

Handled well in my opinion.

randylonghorn · 12-03-2010 08:35PM

Chief--- wrote: »

I presume the Gardai were not going to wade in in numbers and use force on these people to arrest them for obstructing traffic.

That wouldn't have been sensible nor desirable.

A few penalty points handed out, on the other hand ...

12-03-2010 08:40PM

parsi wrote: »

What about this one then:

" Wilful obstruction.
9.—Any person who, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, wilfully prevents or interrupts the free passage of any person or vehicle in any public place shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £200."

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0009.html#zza2y1994s9

I would say having a protest is a reasonable excuse.

randylonghorn wrote: »

That wouldn't have been sensible nor desirable.

A few penalty points handed out, on the other hand ...

I'd expect some summons as well as FCPS's to be winging their way out to the taxi drivers.

curadh · 12-03-2010 09:23PM

I would gladly participate in a protest blocking a taxi rank. +1 think about the damage they caused our peaceful fabric, imagine being stuck on that luas trying to get to a job interview or get to work or whatever that might threaten your income and livelihood. I say FFOCK, them! No consideration for the rest of us. :mad:

I might also add taxi fares are too high.

TouchingVirus · 12-03-2010 09:27PM

Chief--- wrote: »

I wasnt there now but..

I presume the Gardai were not going to wade in in numbers and use force on these people to arrest them for obstructing traffic.

You can be sure senior Gardai were engaging with the leaders of the protest and also with the Taxi Regulator going from side to side trying to resolve the situation.

The protestors gathered, protested and left.

Some people were delayed and have a right to be pissed off.

No arrests, no court cases, no ombudsman cases and no injuries.

Handled well in my opinion.

I disagree, they caused chaos and were in breach of the consitution on Article 40.6 (ii). They caused nuisance to the general public, contravening that section.

Where to protest then? Office of the taxi regulator perhaps? Somewhere relevant to their protest, not the middle of O'Connell street like that - Ridiculous.

Amalgam · 12-03-2010 09:33PM

What if it suits the government to let them block the streets? Spin and all that..

Turner · 12-03-2010 09:40PM

DonJose2 banned for 4 days for his earlier post.

Zambia · 12-03-2010 09:51PM

You do realise that if we simply employed Gardai to operate by the exact letter of the law in every case the city would come to a standstill.

By allowing a small delay the situation did not escalate and as has been stated this remained a protest not a riot.

If as soon as the first Taximan impeded traffic or the tram a senior Gardai shouted charge and led ten Gardai headlong into the crowd what would have happened??

Anyway we take 6 months and several years probation trying to get Gardai to use their heads to resolve situations. We should maybe trust them to use those heads ...

Why don't Gardai arrest/remove protesting Taxi men?

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