do you think ireland should have a death penalty?

orourkeda · 12-03-2010 06:25PM

No.It's never worked

kowloon · 12-03-2010 06:31PM

lightspeed wrote: »

hi after reading the papers and listening to the news over the past few years it seems to me that the only solution to deter serious acts of evil is by executing the offenders. i read yesterday in the evening herald about a twice convicted rapist lured a young girl by pretended to be a young man on facebook, he then pretended to be the father of the young man he was pretending to be and after luring her into his car he raped and murdered her. Then today i read in the irish sun about a separate incident in which a serial rapist raped and tied up a woman in her home . He then got a butchers knife and started slashing her legs and telling her he was going to drown her baby and cut it into pieces. the judge in this case sentenced him to 12 years in prison but the judge wanted to give him a life sentence . The judge said that the life sentence would not make it through the appeal process as his previous rapes were a double rape and not 2 separate incidents. i have no idea why this scumbag is shown such leniency because he raped 2 woman at the same time and not at separate occasions? can anybody explain why that is justified?
so in 12 years time or most likely less with good behavior this man could be living next door to you or you daughter or sister or family. It just a raffle as to where these people will be placed . apparently from what i read in singapore where they have the death penalty with the oppurtunity for only 1 appeal they have much less serious crime such as this. DNA is also a lot more sophisticated at least in the states so the chances of someone being wrongfully convicted are pretty slim. So whats your opinions on the matter?

lightspeed · 12-03-2010 06:31PM

Sigi wrote: »

Abolishment of the death penalty is required for EU membership,so it's not gonna happen.

why would be alone in wishing that teh the death penalty be reinstated?
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepgee/news/justice/article841077.ece

http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/thoughts.html

its seems more people in britain are for the death penalty than those opposed to it.
From what i read in singapore 95% of the people said they are happy to have the death penalty enforced
if we did a survey and more people supported it than opposed it how would it be democratic for us to ignore the voice of the majority of the people?
What if we did a european survey and most of europe wanted the death penalty introduced at each countrys own discreation? would it be democratic to ignore the results? i dont think it would be. And how much money does it cost to take care of serial rapist and murderers it would save the government millions of euro that we could use in schools or sick childen or whatever. id rather we we just have a big bonfire and burn the money saved than spend it on keeping a serial murdering rapist alive and making sure his stay is comfortable. Abortion is considered murder by many people and yet we had a referandum on that and its illegal here and yet legal in uk and both countries are in the EU ?
id still like those opposed to answer the question which you would prefer , when the government conducts its rapist and murder lottery and if they move a serial rapist or convicted murderer next door to your family or daughter etc. if that your daughter was a victim of one of these rapists would you prefer to have seen him exterminated or just imprisoned to be released back into the population?
If your answer is (a) Yes id rather he had been executed than he had had been given chance to rape and murder my daughter then its fair to say your opinion is completely bias. whereas mine is not.
My opinion however is not bias as i want these animals exterminated whether they live near me or not . Thankfully I know of no friends or family that have ever being murdered or raped nor do i know of any living nearby however i still rather they be executed .if such awful acts where to occur to a loved one my opinion would not be strengthen or weakened it would just be the same. so it comes dow to the question of the location lottery and living next door to a rapist or state/viglante execution.there are no there options as i cant see how we could economically sustain lifetime sentences for all rapists and murderers.

Biggins · 12-03-2010 06:35PM

The emotional side of me says "yes" when I hear of some absolute dispicable crimes but the (hopefully) wiser side of me says "No" in the cold light of day and opts for locking them up for life.

Life meaning life - not a 30 years stay.

anti-venom · 12-03-2010 06:35PM

lightspeed wrote: »

hi after reading the papers and listening to the news over the past few years it seems to me that the only solution to deter serious acts of evil is by executing the offenders. i read yesterday in the evening herald about a twice convicted rapist lured a young girl by pretended to be a young man on facebook, he then pretended to be the father of the young man he was pretending to be and after luring her into his car he raped and murdered her. Then today i read in the irish sun about a separate incident in which a serial rapist raped and tied up a woman in her home . He then got a butchers knife and started slashing her legs and telling her he was going to drown her baby and cut it into pieces. the judge in this case sentenced him to 12 years in prison but the judge wanted to give him a life sentence . The judge said that the life sentence would not make it through the appeal process as his previous rapes were a double rape and not 2 separate incidents. i have no idea why this scumbag is shown such leniency because he raped 2 woman at the same time and not at separate occasions? can anybody explain why that is justified?
so in 12 years time or most likely less with good behavior this man could be living next door to you or you daughter or sister or family. It just a raffle as to where these people will be placed . apparently from what i read in singapore where they have the death penalty with the oppurtunity for only 1 appeal they have much less serious crime such as this. DNA is also a lot more sophisticated at least in the states so the chances of someone being wrongfully convicted are pretty slim. So whats your opinions on the matter?

A rational and clear thinking person would see a death penalty as a deterrent to commiting murder. If you believe the death penalty is a deterrent, then you must be assuming that that everybody else, including murderers and potential murderers, would also think likewise. You can't assume that everyone has the same ability to think rationally and weigh up the potential consequences of their actions to the same degree.

Would the death penalty deter a drunk from beating to someone to death in a street brawl? Hardly likely, is it?

Would a child rapist be in any way influenced to change his actions at the thought of being arrested, tried and executed? Their sick urges have to be satisfied at whatever cost. Someone who is capable of such a deparved crime surely wouldn't be deterred by fear of capture . If they did then they would probably never offend. If the thought of spending the rest of your life in prison and being universally despised is not enough to deter you from raping kids, then it's hardly likely that a death penalty would be any more effective a deterrent.

I'd be more inclined to keep these vile scumbags in prison for the rest of their natural lives. At lesat if they're alive, and in the off chance that they prove they were wrongfully convicted, then their convictions can be overturned and some degree of reparation can be made. Killing one wrongly convicted person would be one too many.

lightspeed · 12-03-2010 06:41PM

Mark200 wrote: »

Well if you want to bring logic into it, then it seems pretty obvious from looking at the list that as a general rule it's the wealthiest countries, and the countries with the best quality of life, that have the lowest murder rates (shocking). Among the bottom ones that are well known for being wealthy and having a high quality of life are:

Singapore
Luxembourg
Japan
Denmark
Hong Kong
Norway
Austria

The ones in bold do not use the death penalty.

Also, not to mention that you're completely ignoring all the countries that do use the death penalty that have far higher murder rates than Ireland.

what exactly is your point? obviously the poorer a country the less crime and murders but we dont have the wealth or abilty to control murderers and serial rapists and if we are so flushed with cah then why cant we give lfe permanent sentences to murders and drug lords and rapists?
im for the death penalty because i see no other way. in the example i mention that serial rapist after raping three women and and will be out in a maximum of 12 years. So without execution what is your solution ?
should we just give him a box of roses aswell as police protection and a state funded accomadation and just ask him would he mind not trying to rape and murder a 4th victim? Without execution or life sentence what is the alternative? please give me your solution ?

ScumLord · 12-03-2010 06:41PM

I would say no only for the most extreme cases, where someone repeatedly offended, shown no remorse at all and is likely to continue to offend and re-offend.
If there's absolutely no hope of rehabilitation I don't think we should be wasting money on housing them for the rest of their natural lives.

I know people will argue that they need to be punished but what's the point really? Kill them and be done with it or send them for testing to prevent other children from growing into that type of person.

It should only be for the most extreme cases of inhumanity.

changes · 12-03-2010 06:45PM

I'd like to see 30 or 40 yr sentences handed out to our worst offenders instead of the ridiculous 10 or 12 yrs they normally get.

And yeah i support the death penalty.

lightspeed · 12-03-2010 06:46PM

anti-venom wrote: »

A rational and clear thinking person would see a death penalty as a deterrent to commiting murder. If you believe the death penalty is a deterrent, then you must be assuming that that everybody else, including murderers and potential murderers, would also think likewise. You can't assume that everyone has the same ability to think rationally and weigh up the potential consequences of their actions to the same degree.

Would the death penalty deter a drunk from beating to someone to death in a street brawl? Hardly likely, is it?

Would a child rapist be in any way influenced to change his actions at the thought of being arrested, tried and executed? Their sick urges have to be satisfied at whatever cost. Someone who is capable of such a deparved crime surely wouldn't be deterred by fear of capture . If they did then they would probably never offend. If the thought of spending the rest of your life in prison and being universally despised is not enough to deter you from raping kids, then it's hardly likely that a death penalty would be any more effective a deterrent.

I'd be more inclined to keep these vile scumbags in prison for the rest of their natural lives. At lesat if they're alive, and in the off chance that they prove they were wrongfully convicted, then their convictions can be overturned and some degree of reparation can be made. Killing one wrongly convicted person would be one too many.

Yes but that costs hundreds of thousands of euro to give these people life sentences. they get police protection in prison and make friends with other rapists, play pool and still get to live their life but what about those that they murdered? They dont and there family wont ever be the same again so i fail to see it as justice and where is that kind of money going to come from?
Should we take it from healthcare or your childrens education? increase taxes further?
Its just wishfull thinking to believe otherwise and it would deter those from reoffending if they were executed as they wont be alive to commit further offenses.

hooradiation · 12-03-2010 06:54PM

lightspeed wrote: »

Yes but that costs hundreds of thousand to give these people life sentences. they get police protection in prison and make friends with other rapists, play pool and still get to live their life but what about those that they murdered? They dont and there family wont ever be the same again so i fail to see it as justice.
Its just wishfull thinking to believe otherwise and it would deter those from reoffending if they were executed as they wont be alive to commit further offenses.

Like many people you are confusing the words justice and revenge.
They mean different things.

Now, let me make sure i've got this right

The justice system is flawed and has and will continue to make mistakes. Therefore the way to fix this is to give them the power to sentence people to death and the previous problem of the system being prone to mistakes will....vanish? rectify itself by magic? Not matter?

Until the advocates of the death penalty can come up with a way to ensure that people are not incorrectly killed by the state, the ban on the death penalty will and should remain in force.

thetonynator · 12-03-2010 06:55PM

I would not support the death penalty for two reasons, the first is simple enough- the appeals process is so long that most just die in prison before being executed.

The other reason is a proper one:

If it is not right for you to kill someone, how the hell is it right for the criminal justice system to kill you???

ChocolateSauce · 12-03-2010 06:57PM

That is not a power any government should have, ever.

Cheap Thrills! · 12-03-2010 07:00PM

The emotional side of me would love to see it for those that attack/abuse/murder/maim others, especially the elderly and children.

But I don't think its a deterrant. And although it solves the problem of taking these people out of the population, the same thing can be achieved by imprisoning them for life. Thats life meaning life.

Yes, its expensive but death row is also extremely expensive.

A lot of people argue that the death penalty is just revenge. I don't have a problem with that part of it. I think society needs to exact revenge on remorseless psychopaths.

But I think keeping them alive in total solitary confinement (4 blank walls) with no books/interaction/tv/computers is a better revenge than giving them the noteriety and drama of the death penalty. Some of them, unbelievable as it is revel in the attention of that.

Sentances are too short and light. Rehabilitation is a privelege that the criminal must EARN not be handed. So many times cynical criminals take advantage of well meaning attempts to rehabilitate them. Manipulating the system which seems to be built on handing priveleges to the offender instead of them earning it.

Punishment is jsut that. Punishment. When a criminal decide to torture and rob an old person and leave them to an agonising lonely death, when they decide to sexually abuse/rape a child, when they break into someones house and maim them and terrorise their family they LOSE their human rights. That kind of thing should mean prison with no books/tv/computer/human company .....just a bed, toilet, basic medical, 4 blank walls. Thats it.

We would see far less casual crime if prisons were run like this.

Mark200 · 12-03-2010 07:01PM

lightspeed wrote: »

what exactly is your point? obviously the poorer a country the less crime and murders but we dont have the wealth or abilty to control murderers and serial rapists and if we are so flushed with cah then why cant we give lfe permanent sentences to murders and drug lords and rapists?
im for the death penalty because i see no other way. in the example i mention that serial rapist after raping three women and and will be out in a maximum of 12 years. So without execution what is your solution ?
should we just give him a box of roses aswell as police protection and a state funded accomadation and just ask him would he mind not trying to rape and murder a 4th victim? Without execution or life sentence what is the alternative? please give me your solution ?

My point is that you've clearly failed to show that the death penalty acts as a deterrent.

"Without execution or life sentence what is the alternative? please give me your solution ?"

I already gave my solution to the scenario you described: change the courts system. It's pretty deluded if you think the only way to stop someone from being released in 12 years is by killing them. I don't see why you excluded life sentence as a possibilty.

Also, since you're going on about cost so much (even though I don't think cost should play a factor in deciding whether or not to kill someone), putting a prisoner to death in America costs far more than keeping him locked up for the rest of his life.

anti-venom · 12-03-2010 07:03PM

lightspeed wrote: »

Yes but that costs hundreds of thousand to give these people life sentences. they get police protection in prison and make friends with other rapists, play pool and still get to live their life but what about those that they murdered? They dont and there family wont ever be the same again so i fail to see it as justice.
Its just wishfull thinking to believe otherwise and it would deter those from reoffending if they were executed as they wont be alive to commit further offenses.

You seem to be convinced that it would act as a deterrent. The evidence available form countries where the corporeal punishment is used suggests the contrary; that there is no decrease in murder levels, and an increase in murder levels, if anything, in some places. This suggests that we are not dealing with people (killers, rapists) who are thinking clearly about their actions and are not worried about the consequences.

I don't believe that the cost of maintaining prisoners should be a factor either. Custodial sentences are over used. Too many people in prison for petty crimes where more fitting punishments should be handed down. For instance why jail a fraudster, who is not a particular physical danger to anyone? A more fitting punishment could be sought which would free up a jail cell, reduce prison costs, and make cells available for those scum who really should be occupying them for life.

hooradiation · 12-03-2010 07:06PM

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

A lot of people argue that the death penalty is just revenge. I don't have a problem with that part of it. I think society needs to exact revenge on remorseless psychopaths.

I do.
Mainly because revenge is
A] never proportional
B] never satisfied.
C] never rational.

Then we end up right back where we started as we have a case that provokes peoples sense of revenge to the point where nothing but the death penalty will do.

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

Punishment is jsut that. Punishment. When a criminal decide to torture and rob an old person and leave them to an agonising lonely death, when they decide to sexually abuse/rape a child, when they break into someones house and maim them and terrorise their family they LOSE their human rights.

Also i love how people who consider themselves to be the upstanding, law abiding, decent members of society have no problem with banding around the phase "lose their human rights".

Either they are every bit as cruel as the monsters they vilify but are too afraid to act on those impulses or they just don't know what they are talking about.

I hope the latter but on occasion i suspect the former.

lightspeed · 12-03-2010 07:10PM

thetonynator wrote: »

I would not support the death penalty for two reasons, the first is simple enough- the appeals process is so long that most just die in prison before being executed.

The other reason is a proper one:

If it is not right for you to kill someone, how the hell is it right for the criminal justice system to kill you???

1) Because you werre ware of the consequences when commiting the act.
You had a choice that was very simple, Either dont rape or murder or do and get executed therefore you started the ball rolling. Is it really a challenge not to murder or rape someone?
2)It will cost the state hundereds of thousands of euro to house,protect and feed you during prision and then after.
3) theres a possibilty of you reoffending and therefore you are a threat to the tax paying public that funded your sentence and possibly state defense if you could not afford a solicitor during the trial and would therefore act as a detterent to those curious of commiting such crimes.
4) with the large amount of money saved from state executions we could create more jobs and surely speed up appeals while still being able to give a fair trial and take enough time to evaluate the evidence.
5)The person who you murdered is no longer alive and yet you get to enjoy your life as best you can in prision making friends with other rapists drug lord scum and murderers and a lot of hardworking tax payers think that this is a tad bit unfair.

Again given the state of our economy we cant aford to give lifetime sentenes so other then executions whats the solution?
For those opposed to state execution can you please outline your solutions?

Mark200 · 12-03-2010 07:12PM

lightspeed wrote: »

1) Because you werre ware of the consequences when commiting the act.
You had a choice that was very simple, Either dont rape or murder or do and get executed therefore you started the ball rolling. Is it really a challenge not to murder or rape someone?

You could use that logic for any crime - such as robbery. Would you support the death penalty for robbery?

lightspeed wrote: »

2)It will cost the state hundereds of thousands of euro to house,protect and feed you during prision and then after.
3) theres a possibilty of you reoffending and therefore you are a threat to the tax paying public that funded your sentence and possibly state defense if you could not afford a solicitor during the trial and would therefore act as a detterent to those curious of commiting such crimes.
4) with the large amount of money saved from state executions we could create more jobs and surely speed up appeals while still being able to give a fair trial and take enough time to evaluate the evidence.
5)The person who you murdered is no longer alive and yet you get to enjoy your life as best you can in prision making friends with other rapists drug lord scum and murderers and a lot of hardworking tax payers think that this is a tad bit unfair.

I've already informed you that the death penalty is far more costly than life in prison.

the bolt · 12-03-2010 07:23PM

changes wrote: »

I'd like to see 30 or 40 yr sentences handed out to our worst offenders instead of the ridiculous 10 or 12 yrs they normally get.

And yeah i support the death penalty.

how may i ask do you control a wing full of people doing 30 or 40 year jail terms.death penalty does not deter people imo as if the thought they were going to get caught they would not do the crime in the first place.

lightspeed · 12-03-2010 07:29PM

Lets be honest robbery is not as evil an act as raping and murdering someone and thats wht they are currently sentenced differently.
In answer to the question put to me though if i had spent the last 10 or twenty years robbing people and going in and out prison more times than the prison staff then why should they not execute me?
im costing them a fortune? children and the elderly are sick in hospitals without proper equipment and yet im entitled to numerous social benifits . have reoffended countless times when i could have made an effort to reform and educate myself and get a job but i chose to continue robbing people over a large period of years knowing i could get the death penalty
all at the cost of the state. Seems to me that i made my decison by my own free will. And the only reason it cost so much is because of the larger number of appeals for death sentences. The sentence dhould not dictate the trial thats what they have evidence. In singapore they evalute the evidence and have a trial and 1 appeal and it is cost effective which is the opposite of in the united states where they have 4 or 5 appeals costing the state large amounts of money in legal costs. Unless theres is no no evidence to present the there does not need to be more than one appeal

hooradiation · 12-03-2010 07:34PM

lightspeed wrote: »

Lets be honest robbery is not as evil an act as raping and murdering someone and thats wht they are currently sentenced differently.
In answer to the question put to me though if i had spent the last 10 or twenty years robbing people and going in and out prison more times than the prison staff then why should they not execute me?
im costing them a fortune? children and the elderly are sick in hospitals without proper equipment and yet im entitled to numerous social benifits . have reoffended countless times when i could have made an effort to reform and educate myself and get a job but i chose to continue robbing people over a large period of years knowing i could get the death penalty
all at the cost of the state. Seems to me that i made my decison by my own free will. And the only reason it cost so much is because of the larger number of appeals for death sentences. The sentence dhould not dictate the trial thats what they have evidence. In singapore they evalute the evidence and have a trial and 1 appeal and it is cost effective which is the opposite of in the united states where they have 4 or 5 appeals costing the state large amounts of money in legal costs. Unless theres is no no evidence to present the there does not need to be more than one appeal

the problem here is that you have made the assumption that the death penalty is a deterrent, despite evidence to the contrary, and everything you're saying is working backwards using as many fallacies as you can cram into one post to back up the initial assumption.

You're working this backwards and that's why your argument is without merit.

thetonynator · 12-03-2010 07:34PM

another problem is that prison life is far too nice for those there. so ok, its not ideal, but for rapists, paedophiles and murderers, life should be hell, with no comforts, no priviliges.

Cheap Thrills! · 12-03-2010 07:45PM

hooradiation wrote: »

Also i love how people who consider themselves to be the upstanding, law abiding, decent members of society have no problem with banding around the phase "lose their human rights".

Either they are every bit as cruel as the monsters they vilify but are too afraid to act on those impulses or they just don't know what they are talking about.

I hope the latter but on occasion i suspect the former.

But what are we supposed to do when faced with a 'monster' (your words) who has no remorse and will manipulate any avenue given to their own ends.

Talking about people who will never/can never/do not want to be rehabilitated......every human 'right' they are given they will abuse. The type of person who will outwit even expert psychiatrists and manipulate everyone and everything around them....

People who have coldly planned and executed horrible deeds knowing that they can still play their power games from prison and then get released to go on and do more?

What good does that do society? Innocent victims of murder, torture and abuse?

Are we to place our egotistical desire to appear 'noble' and perfect by respecting these criminals 'rights' over the rights of their victims?

Chips Lovell · 12-03-2010 07:57PM

lightspeed wrote: »

i read yesterday in the evening herald about a twice convicted rapist lured a young girl by pretended to be a young man on facebook, he then pretended to be the father of the young man he was pretending to be and after luring her into his car he raped and murdered her.

Yes, because having the death penalty on the statute book in Ireland would really deter a murder in Britain.

lightspeed · 12-03-2010 08:01PM

hooradiation wrote: »

the problem here is that you have made the assumption that the death penalty is a deterrent, despite evidence to the contrary, and everything you're saying is working backwards using as many fallacies as you can cram into one post to back up the initial assumption.

You're working this backwards and that's why your argument is without merit.

Please outline the evidence to the contrary?
i have shown mine. Singapore has a democracy and gun ownership is outlawed and they have a pupulation of nearly 5 million people. They enforce the death penalty and have a dramatic lower death rate which i have shown earlier that was researched from an extensive study. 95% of people there say they are happy and prefer to have the death penalty enforced. Please show me you evidence of what coutries have democracy and gun control and death penalty with a high crime rate that do not have vast amounts of poverty? Please show evidence and dont just say its not a detterant?
Again to those against the death penalty you all just again plum forget to mention your solution to the problem.if the example of the guy i mention earlier is living next door to your daughter what will you do? House warming? buy hima pint and hope he will behave?
if you are agains the death penalty what is the alternative?
where will the money come from for life sentences?
why cant those opposed anwer these questions????????????

Mark200 · 12-03-2010 08:06PM

lightspeed wrote: »

Please outline the evidence to the contrary?
i have shown mine. Singapore has a democracy and gun ownership is outlawed and they have a pupulation of nearly 5 million people. They enforce the death penalty and have a dramatic lower death rate which i have shown earlier that was researched from an extensive study. 95% of people there say they are happy and prefer to have the death penalty enforced. Please show me you evidence of what coutries have democracy and gun control and death penalty with a high crime rate that do not have vast amounts of poverty? Please show evidence and dont just say its not a detterant?
Again to those against the death penalty you all just again plum forget to mention your solution to the problem.if the example of the guy i mention earlier is living next door to your daughter what will you do? House warming? buy hima pint and hope he will behave?
if you are agains the death penalty what is the alternative?
where will the money come from for life sentences?
why cant those opposed anwer these questions????????????

What have you shown? The only thing I've seen you show is the murder rates by country, which I quickly pointed out also contains near the bottom many countries that do not use the death penalty, and also contains many countries at the top that do use the death penalty.

I've TWICE said my solution to the problem: Keep them in prison!

lightspeed · 12-03-2010 08:08PM

el tonto wrote: »

Yes, because having the death penalty on the statute book in Ireland would really deter a murder in Britain.

i read it in the evening herald but i was not sure of it being in britain or ireland. The one i read of today was definately in ireland.
heres the link if you to realise what your country is made of and what your government allows.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/serial-rapist-who-threatened-baby-gets-12-years-449159.html

and heres another story. for all those opposed to death penalty thsi huy could now be living next door or down the road or may near a park or creche. IS that really better as opposed to exterminating such filth.
http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/serial-rapistrsquos-job-as-hospital-gardener-is-approved-by-hse-2049979.html

lightspeed · 12-03-2010 08:10PM

Mark200 wrote: »

What have you shown? The only thing I've seen you show is the murder rates by country, which I quickly pointed out also contains near the bottom many countries that do not use the death penalty, and also contains many countries at the top that do use the death penalty.

I've TWICE said my solution to the problem: Keep them in prison!

Ok id like to research this further so can you please specify which countries use the death penalty and still have a high murder rate and a large population?
where will the money come from ? do you have it under your couch?
i have checked under mine but no such luck?
should we increase taxes or take from the health care?
where will the magic infinte magic money come from? WHERE?

12-03-2010 08:11PM

lightspeed wrote: »

do you thin ireland should have a death penalty?

How about if we execute the executioners first (i.e., the ones that enjoy throwing the switch, pulling the trigger, injecting the overdose, or tripping the trap door)?

Chips Lovell · 12-03-2010 08:12PM

I'd also take a look at the latest Human Rights Watch Report on Singapore. It's arguably a police state, with one party in power since 1959. Press censorship, laws limiting public assembly, harrassment of government critics etc. Hardly a paragon.

do you think ireland should have a death penalty?

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