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do you think ireland should have a death penalty?

  • 12-03-2010 04:39PM
    #1
    lightspeed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,377 ✭✭✭


    hi after reading the papers and listening to the news over the past few years it seems to me that the only solution to deter serious acts of evil is by executing the offenders. i read yesterday in the evening herald about a twice convicted rapist lured a young girl by pretended to be a young man on facebook, he then pretended to be the father of the young man he was pretending to be and after luring her into his car he raped and murdered her. Then today i read in the irish sun about a separate incident in which a serial rapist raped and tied up a woman in her home . He then got a butchers knife and started slashing her legs and telling her he was going to drown her baby and cut it into pieces. the judge in this case sentenced him to 12 years in prison but the judge wanted to give him a life sentence . The judge said that the life sentence would not make it through the appeal process as his previous rapes were a double rape and not 2 separate incidents. i have no idea why this scumbag is shown such leniency because he raped 2 woman at the same time and not at separate occasions? can anybody explain why that is justified?
    so in 12 years time or most likely less with good behavior this man could be living next door to you or you daughter or sister or family. It just a raffle as to where these people will be placed . apparently from what i read in singapore where they have the death penalty with the oppurtunity for only 1 appeal they have much less serious crime such as this. DNA is also a lot more sophisticated at least in the states so the chances of someone being wrongfully convicted are pretty slim. So whats your opinions on the matter?


«13456

Comments

  • #2
    Caoimhín
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭Caoimhín


    Think?


  • #3
    genericguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,831 ✭✭✭genericguy


    i know a lot of people are going to moan that we've become too civilised to use the death penalty, but at the end of the day for some of the crimes (particularly those of a sexual nature) that have been in the papers lately i think it is a greater sin to let the raping bastards live.


  • #4
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Yes. For spelling mistakes.


  • #5
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 11,249 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Yep public hangings in the Park.Charge €20 a go entrance fee and we`ll be out of this recession in no time.


  • #6
    Minstrel27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Minstrel27


    A lifetime of hard labour is what they should be dishing out.


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  • #7
    super_furry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,387 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    If England had the death penalty, the Birmingham Six would have been executed. If there's even a chance that one innocent person would be put to death, you can't have it.


  • #8
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Only for the first poster to say something smart about paragraphs.


  • #9
    WIZE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭WIZE


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64108996


  • #10
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    lightspeed wrote: »
    hi after reading the papers and listening to the news over the past few years it seems to me that the only solution to deter serious acts of evil is by executing the offenders. i read yesterday in the evening herald about a twice convicted rapist lured a young girl by pretended to be a young man on facebook, he then pretended to be the father of the young man he was pretending to be and after luring her into his car he raped and murdered her. Then today i read in the irish sun about a separate incident in which a serial rapist raped and tied up a woman in her home . He then got a butchers knife and started slashing her legs and telling her he was going to drown her baby and cut it into pieces. the judge in this case sentenced him to 12 years in prison but the judge wanted to give him a life sentence . The judge said that the life sentence would not make it through the appeal process as his previous rapes were a double rape and not 2 separate incidents. i have no idea why this scumbag is shown such leniency because he raped 2 woman at the same time and not at separate occasions? can anybody explain why that is justified?
    so in 12 years time or most likely less with good behavior this man could be living next door to you or you daughter or sister or family. It just a raffle as to where these people will be placed . apparently from what i read in singapore where they have the death penalty with the oppurtunity for only 1 appeal they have much less serious crime such as this. DNA is also a lot more sophisticated at least in the states so the chances of someone being wrongfully convicted are pretty slim. So whats your opinions on the matter?

    Here's an interesting development from texas.
    http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2010/03/texas_judge_weve_executed_inno.php

    DNA isn't osme silver bullet that will solve every crime, it's another tool in crime solving and can be powerful but it's not infalllible (DNA can end up at crime scenes indirectly).
    My opinion on the death penalty is that killing should either be wrong or not so I'm against it but people like the cases you mentioned should never see daylight again.


  • #11
    GrizzlyMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 957 ✭✭✭GrizzlyMan


    Yeah I agree with it, in certain cases! but it will never happen.


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  • #12
    Prof.Badass
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭Prof.Badass


    Rather than killing them, I think being forced to work as sex slaves for pensioners is what the scum* deserve.

    *to qualify as scum all you have to do is be working class and either do drugs, claim the dole or wear a tracksuit (middle class people can do these things without being scum) :rolleyes:.


  • #13
    Mark200
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    I never understand when people try to justify a call for the death penalty by pointing at serious criminals who were released from prison. You don't need to kill them to stop them from being released... just change the courts system.

    And the thing about serial murderers and rapists is that they don't expect to be caught, so the death penalty won't work. I don't buy for a second that there are people out there who might think a crime is worth committing because the punishment is life in prison, but then all of a sudden the crime is not worth committing because the risk is death.


  • #14
    who the fug
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭who the fug


    If you kill an officer of the state then yes.


  • #15
    knird evol
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭knird evol


    super_furry wrote: »
    If England had the death penalty, the Birmingham Six would have been executed. If there's even a chance that one innocent person would be put to death, you can't have it.

    You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs


  • #16
    NothingMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,178 ✭✭✭✭NothingMan


    who the fug wrote: »
    If you kill an officer of the state then yes.

    I'd like to think my life is worth as much as an "officer of the state". In certain circumstances yes I think the death penalty is justified.


  • #17
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    lightspeed wrote: »
    hi after reading the papers and listening to the news over the past few years it seems to me that the only solution to deter serious acts of evil is by executing the offenders.
    Even though it's not a deterrant in the United States?


  • #18
    who the fug
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭who the fug


    NothingMan wrote: »
    I'd like to think my life is worth as much as an "officer of the state". In certain circumstances yes I think the death penalty is justified.

    Yes but you are not paid to walk up and down the street, protecting the population

    If you pull a gun on the state then I think it you should know before hand where the consequences of you action will end up


  • #19
    lightspeed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,377 ✭✭✭lightspeed


    the birmingham six were only convicted to begin with because of corrupt police who switched dna samples and altered evidence. Thia can hapen in any case but how often does it?
    If 2 gardai know me and have a quarrel against me what if they pulled me over and planted cocaine in my car?
    as far as i know if you are found with drugs you eventually get convicted for possesion. So how would it be any different if drugs were planted by corrupt police and you were innocent and did 10 years or more?
    Yes you will still be alive after your sentence but the point im making is that if its possible for the gardai to be as corrupt at the moment but yet it currently is not an issue then why would it be if we had a death penalty? Why would we suddenly have corrupt gardai trying to have innocent people executed for crimes like rape and murder? Also Dna evidence is a lot more advanced now then at the time that the birmingham six were wrongfully convicted. But given the number of re offending drug lords having innocent people murdered and rapists re offending and murdering innocent people i think its a fair argument to execute them upon 1st conviction for these crimes weighed against the lives lost by wrongfully convicted getting executed i think it would save more innocent lives. to prove this theory why not consider if you were to compare (a)the number of those wrongfully convicted and (b) the number of those that reoffended and murdered and raped more people and see which is higher? My guess is b


  • #20
    super_furry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,387 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    lightspeed wrote: »
    the birmingham six were only convicted to begin with because of corrupt police who switched dna samples and altered evidence. Thia can hapen in any case but how often does it?

    Aside from there being no DNA evidence at all, the bolded part makes my point for me.


  • #21
    lightspeed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,377 ✭✭✭lightspeed


    Dudess wrote: »
    Even though it's not a deterrant in the United States?


    Yes but the united states has legalised the ownership of guns which do dramatically increase the mumber of murders.Also only a few states carry out executions and have you actually looked at any statistics proving that it has not deterred murders in these states? if so please let me know where you found this information? In singapore guns are not legal . check out this link showing the statistics for homicides worldwide
    http://chartsbin.com/view/ueh

    check out ireland then scroll all the way down to the very bottom you will find singapore?
    i dont think think that its a coincidence that singapore have outlawed the ownership of guns and enforce the death penalty do you?


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  • #22
    Mark200
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    lightspeed wrote: »
    Yes but the united states has legalised the ownership of guns which do dramatically increase the mumber of murders.Also only a few states carry out executions and have you actually looked at any statistics proving that it has not deterred murders in these states? if so please let me know where you found this information? In singapore guns are not legal . check out this link showing the statistics for homicides worldwide
    http://chartsbin.com/view/ueh

    check out ireland then scroll all the way down to the very bottom you will find singapore?
    i dont think think that its a coincidence that singapore have outlawed the ownership of guns and enforce the death penalty do you?

    According to that list, Luxembourg has almost identical murder rates - yet they don't have the death penalty. Hmm.


  • #23
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    Tell you what, we can reintroduce the death penalty when we have a totally infallible justice system that will never wrongfully convict a person.

    Until then, no.


  • #24
    Sigi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 134 ✭✭Sigi


    Abolishment of the death penalty is required for EU membership,so it's not gonna happen.


  • #25
    who the fug
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭who the fug


    Sigi wrote: »
    Abolishment of the death penalty is required for EU membership,so it's not gonna happen.

    Nothing to stop us leaving the EU, that is why we is independent


  • #26
    Le King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭Le King


    who the fug wrote: »
    If you kill an officer of the state then yes.

    Why? Just an officer...?


  • #27
    lightspeed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,377 ✭✭✭lightspeed


    Mark200 wrote: »
    According to that list, Luxembourg has almost identical murder rates - yet they don't have the death penalty. Hmm.
    probably because the data is given as per 100,000 people and luxembourg has under 490,000 people and singapore has a population of approximately 4.9 million people. its easier to control and police a smaller population than a much larger population. That seems pretty logical to me.


  • #28
    who the fug
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭who the fug


    Osu wrote: »
    Why? Just an officer...?



    Officer

    as an in

    Garda
    Tax Man
    Soldier
    Bailiff

    etc


  • #29
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    lightspeed wrote: »
    probably because the data is given as per 100,000 people and luxembourg has under 490,000 people and singapore has a population of approximately 4.9 million people. its easier to control and police a smaller population than a much larger population. That seems pretty logical to me.

    That's not how statistics work.


  • #30
    Mark200
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    lightspeed wrote: »
    probably because the data is given as per 100,000 people and luxembourg has under 490,000 people and singapore has a population of approximately 4.9 million people. its easier to control and police a smaller population than a much larger population. That seems pretty logical to me.

    Well if you want to bring logic into it, then it seems pretty obvious from looking at the list that as a general rule it's the wealthiest countries, and the countries with the best quality of life, that have the lowest murder rates (shocking). Among the bottom ones that are well known for being wealthy and having a high quality of life are:

    Singapore
    Luxembourg
    Japan
    Denmark
    Hong Kong
    Norway
    Austria

    The ones in bold do not use the death penalty.

    Also, not to mention that you're completely ignoring all the countries that do use the death penalty that have far higher murder rates than Ireland.


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  • #31
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    who the fug wrote: »
    Officer

    as an in

    Garda
    Tax Man
    Soldier
    Bailiff

    etc

    aw.:(


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