Ireland needs socialism, says President McAleese

Permabear · 05-03-2010 01:05PM #1

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P. Breathnach · 05-03-2010 01:22PM

Come off it, DF. We're talking about Mary McAleese here: an intelligent woman who happens to view the people of Ireland in a romantic way. This is Celtic mist stuff, not a big political pronouncement.

I don't mind that you are a libertarian, just as you don't mind that I have a different perspective. But I would be alarmed if you adopted the worst American habit of seeing reds under every bed.

Have ye nothing better to be doing with your time?

Fat_Fingers · 05-03-2010 01:30PM

Every time i see her i switch the channel. To have Fianna Fáil unelected president representing us and enjoying all the benefits is bad enough. To have the same person then telling us about “sharing the workload” is frankly offensive. What is she sharing?!?!? She sure knows how to spend our tax money.
Ireland is in the worse depression is the second world war, nearly half a million unemployed, people are struggling to live and pay mortgages and in the meantime she off to Hollywood shaking hand with Arnold Schwarzenegger, then she signed into law bailout of the Anglo, then she signed into law NAMA
Woman is living a highlife on the back of taxpayers and now she’s telling about “sharing the workload”. Man, all Fianna Fáil heads are the same..

FTA69 · 05-03-2010 01:38PM

Eh... when she starts banging on about "the means of production", "red terror", "dictatorship of the proletariat" etc then you might have a point about the Soviet terminology.

"Pulling together and sharing the fruit" is nothing to do with socialism, rather watery imagery which could just as easily be taken out of Reagan's "New Frontier" concept.

Move along, nothing to see here. :rolleyes:

sirromo · 05-03-2010 01:41PM

There should be a politics sub-forum for sensationalist tabloid threads like this.

BennyLava · 05-03-2010 01:42PM

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Mary McAleese here: an intelligent woman who happens to view the people of Ireland in a romantic way. This is Celtic mist stuff, not a big political pronouncement.

What would you expect from someone from Belfast, don't all British people view us that way

Permabear · 05-03-2010 01:46PM

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JonathanAnon · 05-03-2010 01:56PM

Mary McAleese has said nothing but this sort of unrealistic, flowery, populist, idyllic guff in her two terms as president. She is a part of the establishment and thus is part of the problem, not a part of the solution.

She had the opportunity to stand up to capitalism at every stage where she had to sign in FF Ministers, sign legislation etc etc, and she didnt exactly say " Jaysus no, Joe wouldnt have put up with this".

Like I said before, the position of president is of no significance and should be done away with. Just an elitist soap box for intellectuals, a bit like the position of senator.

hinault · 05-03-2010 01:59PM

donegalfella wrote: »

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Profits are privatised.

Losses are socialised.

It has always been the way.

I think the President is wrong on this one.

She should have been calling for the redistribution of wealth throughout the boom times.

I like our President but she's falling in to the trap of supporting the agenda of the vested interests on this occasion.

Pride Fighter · 05-03-2010 02:03PM

Mary McAlesse is a right wing Fianna Failer of the highest order. This is a nonsense thread.

imme · 05-03-2010 02:03PM

I think the OP has misinterpreted and is misrepresenting the President.
I don't believe the interpretation that the President is 'forcing' socialism on us or advocating socialism to us is absurd, totally absurd, possibly even perverse. And then to talk of the Soviet Union and Mao, is he being a sensationalist???

Why does the OP raise the issue of NAMA, whether a President personally agrees with a piece of legislation or not is nothing to do with their signing it into law, a legal obligation unless they're of the opinion that the legislation is repugnant to the constitution.
Really!:rolleyes:

Orchard Rebel · 05-03-2010 02:07PM

donegalfella wrote: »

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And yet we're all bailing out the banks. What could be more collective (indeed socialist) than that?

Perhaps there should be a proviso to Ayn Rand's quote which goes: "However, there is such a thing as collective responsibility when the neoliberal economic model goes badly wrong".....

seamus · 05-03-2010 02:08PM

TBH, I don't see her remarks as being any more socialist than, "Ask not what your country can do for you...."

There's never been a leader or head of state in history who's said, "Ah sure just look after yourselves, the country will look after itself". Leadership is about getting people unified and passionate about coming together for the benefit of the entire society.

Socialism doesn't look for everyone to share the workload, it only looks for everyone to share the fruits.

imme · 05-03-2010 02:08PM

Fat_Fingers wrote: »

then she signed into law bailout of the Anglo, then she signed into law NAMA
Woman is living a highlife on the back of taxpayers and now she’s telling about “sharing the workload”. Man, all Fianna Fáil heads are the same..

What was the President to do

Whether a President agrees or disagrees personally with a piece of legislation doesn't come into it.

ei.sdraob · 05-03-2010 02:17PM

seamus wrote: »

Socialism doesn't look for everyone to share the workload, it only looks for everyone to share the fruits.

let me fix that for you

socialism is about taking money from productive entities and giving it to non productive entities

its a form of organised begrudgery

ei.sdraob · 05-03-2010 02:18PM

Orchard Rebel wrote: »

And yet we're all bailing out the banks. What could be more collective (indeed socialist) than that?

bailing out the banks is socialist

they shouldnt have been given a cent and let to own devices

by bailing them out we ensure all of this will be repeated again (on a larger scale)

Orchard Rebel · 05-03-2010 02:23PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

let me fix that for you

socialism is about taking money from productive entities and giving it to non productive entities

its a form of organised begrudgery

let me fix it a little further:

socialism is about taking money from productive entities (the populace) and giving it to non productive entities (the banks)

It's what neoliberals become when their world comes crashing down....

ei.sdraob · 05-03-2010 02:24PM

Orchard Rebel wrote: »

let me fix it a little further:

socialism is about taking money from productive entities (the populace) and giving it to non productive entities (the banks)

its what neoliberals become when their would comes crashing down....

yep that's a perverse form of socialism too, there you go

yet again im gonna say it

the banks shouldn't have been given a cent in the first place

thats what happens to any capitalist company, they make a booboo they go bankrupt and are liquidated with shareholders/bondholders loosing their skins, banks are no different

seamus · 05-03-2010 02:25PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

banks are no different

Except when their best mates and business associates are in charge of the country :rolleyes:

ei.sdraob · 05-03-2010 02:27PM

seamus wrote: »

Except when their best mates and business associates are in charge of the country :rolleyes:

and a "proper" socialist system will be different from the above :rolleyes:
notice how all the socialist/communist attempts have ended up with a "party elite"

socialism is responsible for giving billions to banks, and we do what? vote socialists in for more shafting??

imme · 05-03-2010 02:33PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

and a "proper" socialist system will be different from the above :rolleyes:
notice how all the socialist/communist attempts have ended up with a "party elite"

socialism is responsible for giving billions to banks, and we do what? vote socialists in for more shafting??

eh? is this Ireland you're talking about

ei.sdraob · 05-03-2010 02:38PM

imme wrote: »

eh? is this Ireland you're talking about

theres an obvious love for socialism on this forum

someone needs to point out that its socialistic policies that are putting the taxpayer on the hook here

sirromo · 05-03-2010 02:47PM

ei.sdraob wrote:

socialism is about taking money from productive entities and giving it to non productive entities (which includes children, disabled people and pensioners)

Fixed that for you.

seamus · 05-03-2010 02:48PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

and a "proper" socialist system will be different from the above :rolleyes:
notice how all the socialist/communist attempts have ended up with a "party elite"

socialism is responsible for giving billions to banks, and we do what? vote socialists in for more shafting??

The real problem here is that Irish people want the public domain to be socialist but the private domain to be capitalist.

We want the state to provide the best healthcare, the best roads, the highest of infrastructure, but when it comes to the money in our pockets, you better leave it alone because it's mine and no-one else's.

This is why our elected officials will often make strongly socialist decisions, such as NAMA and why the two biggest parties are very centrist - because that's what Irish people want.

I would suggest that capitalism is no better for fairness when it comes to elected officials. Capitalism allows votes to be bought and puts all of the power in the hands of those that make the most money. No system is perfect in this regard, they all have their corrupt elite.

imme · 05-03-2010 02:48PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

theres an obvious love for socialism on this forum

someone needs to point out that its socialistic policies that are putting the taxpayer on the hook here

"A love for socialism"

what's that mean?

well, which is it, first you said we'd voted in a socialist government, now you go on about the love of socialism on here?
Do you see conspiracies everywhere? Maybe Boards is central to it all.
Are you seriously saying that the government in Ireland is a socialist government. Seriously?

ei.sdraob · 05-03-2010 02:49PM

sirromo wrote: »

Fixed that for you.

thats called welfare, ive no problems with some levels of welfare, like education and healthcare its an important aspect of a modern society

imme wrote: »

"A love for socialism" what's that mean?

well, which is it, first you said we'd voted in a socialist government, now you go on about the love of socialism on here?
Do you see conspiracies everywhere? Maybe Boards is central to it all.
Are you seriously saying that the government in Ireland is a socialist government. Seriously?

way to take what i said out of context and twist it

i didn't say we voted (past tense) i am saying the people of this country might endup voting (future tense) for such a bunch as illustrated by many posts on this forum and recent frontline show (the one with the talk of revolutions, redistribution of wealth, and taxing productive businesses more)

and no the current government are not socialist (tho they did quadruple welfare in a decade, and grew the public sector), but populist, they are doing everything (left and right wing policies) in order to stay in power and save own skin (like giving money to banks)

.

Permabear · 05-03-2010 02:50PM

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P. Breathnach · 05-03-2010 02:58PM

donegalfella wrote: »

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Empty rhetoric. Rather like invoking the tradition of the meitheal.

imme · 05-03-2010 03:01PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

way to take what i said out of context and twist it

i didn't say we voted (past tense) i am saying the people of this country might endup voting (future tense) for such a bunch as illustrated by many posts on this forum and recent frontline show (the one with the talk of revolutions, redistribution of wealth, and taxing productive businesses more)

and no the current government are not socialist (tho they did quadruple welfare in a decade, and grew the public sector), but populist, they are doing everything (left and right wing policies) in order to stay in power and save own skin (like giving money to banks)

.

you said previously that we have a socialist ogvernment and that we'd voted for them.
Why would the govt give money to the banks to ensure their staying in power? I'm not sure what you mean by this, do you, how would this work?

Have you a link to show that Welfare spending was quadrupled in a decade.

Orchard Rebel · 05-03-2010 03:03PM

donegalfella wrote: »

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If I understand you right, you are saying that, notwithstanding almost thirteen years of centre-right government in Ireland, no-one should vote Labour at the next election as they would bring in socialist policies. Instead, one should vote again for right-wing parties (FF or FG, it doesn't matter) so that socialism will be confined to those occasional embarrassing moments like burst property bubbles and bailing out banks.

Permabear · 05-03-2010 03:03PM

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Ireland needs socialism, says President McAleese

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