James Bulger murderer Jon Venables returned to prison

Nodin · 03-03-2010 10:27AM

robinph wrote: »

...and they have both now spent far more time being brought up by the state rather than their parents. The state is clearly incapable of raising people to be good citizens.

I was unaware that "raising people" was best conducted in a young offenders institute.

robinph · 03-03-2010 10:33AM

Nodin wrote: »

I was unaware that "raising people" was best conducted in a young offenders institute.

Exactly.

wobblyknees · 03-03-2010 11:01AM

sam34 wrote: »

we all know that was one of the t&c's.

but what eoin asked is why did you highlight that particular one, when there is nothing to suggest that's the one he broke?

why did you not say "looks like he has been naughty again...one of teh conditions was that he wouldnt enter merseyside"??

insinuating that he tried to contact thompson is just unfounded sensationalist scare-mongering.

Maybe it's because he, like everyone else, is guessing at why Venables has been returned to prison? When you consider that Bulgers mother made attempts to contact one or both of the killers, it's actually a logical suggestion.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 03-03-2010 11:11AM

Nodin wrote: »

He was 10.

And the baby he murdered was only two.

Its often found that serial killers were the people who tortured spider's and other helpless creatures when they were children, progressing into human's when they entered adulthood.

These two evil bastards just cut right to the chase and murdered a baby.

And I know you'd argue that white is white, but a ten year old know's damned well that torturing and murdering a toddler is wrong.

Personally I'm glad this creep is back where he belongs, rumour has it his partner in crime is living in Ireland where he's not subject to the term's & conditions of his release!.

hooradiation · 03-03-2010 11:14AM

Tiana Odd Starvation wrote: »

Personally I'm glad this creep is back where he belongs, rumour has it his partner in crime is living in Ireland where he's not subject to the term's & conditions of his release!.

You sound positivity ecstatic at that concept. Should i even bother to ask why?

Dublin_Gunner · 03-03-2010 11:15AM

Tiana Odd Starvation wrote: »

And the baby he murdered was only two.

Its often found that serial killers were the people who tortured spider's and other helpless creatures when they were children, progressing into human's when they entered adulthood.

These two evil bastards just cut right to the chase and murdered a baby.

And I know you'd argue that white is white, but a ten year old know's damned well that torturing and murdering a toddler is wrong.

Personally I'm glad this creep is back where he belongs, rumour has it his partner in crime is living in Ireland where he's not subject to the term's & conditions of his release!.

I'd certainly take your view Tiana Odd Starvation.

My opinion is that if a human was capable of that sort of evil doing at 10 - you'd have to wonder what they'd be capable of now.

I know there will be people coming on preaching 'everyone deserves a second chance' 'they can be reformed' etc etc bullsheet.

They should have been put down.

These guys were defective from the outset.

I wonder are they allowed purchase batteries?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 03-03-2010 11:15AM

hooradiation wrote: »

You sound positivity ecstatic at that concept. Should i even bother to ask why?

Ecstatic at what, you gave me two scenario's.

hooradiation · 03-03-2010 11:19AM

Tiana Odd Starvation wrote: »

Ecstatic at what, you gave me two scenario's.

Fine then, pretend you can't read if you must.

Lux23 · 03-03-2010 11:19AM

Did he murder another child?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 03-03-2010 11:24AM

Lux23 wrote: »

Did he murder another child?

Probably.

Nodin · 03-03-2010 11:29AM

Tiana Odd Starvation wrote: »

And the baby he murdered was only two.

Its often found that serial killers were the people who tortured spider's and other helpless creatures when they were children, progressing into human's when they entered adulthood.

And in many parts of the world, this crime would have been seen as a tragedy, and the opportunity taken to intervene and try to correct the two children responsible. Instead they were both tried as adults and chucked into borstal, while outside there was some of the most disgusting rabble rousing I've ever witnessed.

Did it never strike you as odd, that these two are the most hated criminals of the last 50 years, despite their youth and despite many more depraved murders and murderers?

Biggins · 03-03-2010 11:42AM

When the two young murderers were first arrested and held for questioning, they were under 24 hour watch. For each boy three people highly regarded in their field of social work and mental health were appointed to guard/oversee the boys, each one in 8 hour shifts.
ONE of these people for the two boys is known to me (I'm not saying how - don't ask. You won't get the answer your looking for.) and told me that they (I'm not saying "he" or she") were assigned to mentally assess one of them for the court.

The words used in shortened terms was that whenever one particular male was addressed, approached or even in the room, their deep rooted character was one of stone cold killer without feeling, without remorse and without any appreciation or value of animal or human life.

The person involved also commented to me that whenever they looked into the eyes of one male, it was looking at something that was already dead. Their assessment again in laymans terms (which was separately came to also by the other people involved), was that the male regarded a life as absolutely nothing more than a piece of dirt on a kitchen table. Something that could be wiped away with a flick of a hand and carry on regardless.
They submitted that they could not in all honesty see any change being possible to the underlying mental condition in the character of the male. You might as well be trying to change a cold dead fridge door. They were what they were at that moment and that was brought about because they were an end product of the environment and conditions in which they were brought up in.

While control and safeguards as to what they do in the future (at the previous time) might be probably possible, "rehabilitation" into normal society and the instilling of some standard current life appreciation values was judged to be near impossible. Thats the short version.

Now I don't know what this particular "returned to jail" person did to have himself sent back in but I do know, whatever it was - was serious enough to warrant it be done as soon as possible.
They, the two killers are still regarded in certain British departments as two very dangerous people indeed - and they, the staff of those departments for the public's sake (and probably to cover their ass - lets be honest), are clearly taking no chances.

Who could blame them!

hitlersson666 · 03-03-2010 11:46AM

Intresting

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/bulger.asp seems ''james bulger'' went back to jail yesterday

Its all messed up on so many levels and hopefully as /i noted before HE WILL GET what is coming to him :cool:

Nodin · 03-03-2010 11:47AM

There was something said that made me think it was a series of incidents. However, as many of the conditions themselves are secret, and we simply don't know what he's done its impossible to gauge or guess the severity of his offence(s). He is back inside now, regardless, and is no longer a risk (if that was the nature of his breach).

Lux23 · 03-03-2010 11:56AM

Biggins wrote: »

When the two young murderers were first arrested and held for questioning, they were under 24 hour watch. For each boy three people highly regarded in their field of social work and mental health were appointed to guard/oversee the boys, each one in 8 hour shifts.
ONE of these people for the two boys is known to me (I'm not saying how - don't ask. You won't get the answer your looking for.) and told me that they (I'm not saying "he" or she") were assigned to mentally assess one of them for the court.

The words used in shortened terms was that whenever one particular male was addressed, approached or even in the room, their deep rooted character was one of stone cold killer without feeling, without remorse and without any appreciation or value of animal or human life.

The person involved also commented to me that whenever they looked into the eyes of one male, it was looking at something that was already dead. Their assessment again in laymans terms (which was separately came to also by the other people involved), was that the male regarded a life as absolutely nothing more than a piece of dirt on a kitchen table. Something that could be wiped away with a flick of a hand and carry on regardless.
They submitted that they could not in all honesty see any change being possible to the underlying mental condition in the character of the male. You might as well be trying to change a cold dead fridge door. They were what they were at that moment and that was brought about because they were an end product of the environment and conditions in which they were brought up in.

While control and safeguards as to what they do in the future (at the previous time) might be probably possible, "rehabilitation" into normal society and the instilling of some standard current life appreciation values was judged to be near impossible. Thats the short version.

Now I don't know what this particular "returned to jail" person did to have himself sent back in but I do know, whatever it was - was serious enough to warrant it be done as soon as possible.
They, the two killers are still regarded in certain British departments as two very dangerous people indeed - and they, the staff of those departments for the public's sake (and probably to cover their ass - lets be honest), are clearly taking no chances.

Who could blame them!

I don't really believe the story you just told but if you did I would be reporting what you said to the authorties. What that person was employed to do was mentally assess those boys not going around gabbing about how they met the cold hard stare of those evil baby killers at dinner parties. But as said I doubt what you are saying is true.

So he wasn't arrested for killing another child? That's funny, so what is all the fuss about?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 03-03-2010 12:00PM

Lux23 wrote: »

So he wasn't arrested for killing another child? That's funny, so what is all the fuss about?

We've to wait until someone murder's a child before we make a fuss?.

Truley · 03-03-2010 12:02PM

Dear lord this thread reads like one big Daily Mail article.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 03-03-2010 12:04PM

Truley wrote: »

Dear lord this thread reads like one big Daily Mail article.

Welcome to After Hours :pac:

Biggins · 03-03-2010 12:06PM

Lux23 wrote: »

I don't really believe the story you just told but if you did I would be reporting what you said to the authorties. What that person was employed to do was mentally assess those boys not going around gabbing about how they met the cold hard stare of those evil baby killers at dinner parties. But as said I doubt what you are saying is true.

So he wasn't arrested for killing another child? That's funny, so what is all the fuss about?

There is a lot I'm NOT saying for a number of very important reasons.
Nothing was "gabbied" to me and no "dinner parties" or even anything close to it was involved. How I came to know something small of the then huge detailed case, I cannot say for same important reasons.
My words can be thrown away as something from a raving lunatic, fair enough.
I cannot add more because other people are involved still and I'm sure you will appreciate that.

My point is that from what little I know, they are still have a high risk assessment on them.
The return to jail of one of them then, is a precaution due to this alone, if not as well as whatever they did when they were out to alarm the authorities.

JPA · 03-03-2010 12:10PM

TBH I thought this story/Jamie Bulger story would be the one thing AH could all agree on.

Those 2 monsters should have been hung, drawn and quartered years ago.

walshb · 03-03-2010 12:10PM

Dudess wrote: »

I'd be fairly concerned about what happened to that child to fuck them up badly enough to do that...

I read extensive coverage about this and both boys had issues, family issues and all that.
Pretty rough really. Thompson's upbringing was worse from what I read.

Very good read

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/young/bulger/1.html

xzanti · 03-03-2010 12:21PM

minidazzler wrote: »

What he did was horrible, but he was a fcuking child when he did it.
.

So imagine what he's capable of as an adult.

robinph · 03-03-2010 12:34PM

xzanti wrote: »

So imagine what he's capable of as an adult.

Especially as he's spent all of his time since the age of 10 under the supervision of the state, no telling what nasty things they may have taught him during that time.

sam34 · 03-03-2010 12:35PM

wobblyknees wrote: »

Maybe it's because he, like everyone else, is guessing at why Venables has been returned to prison? When you consider that Bulgers mother made attempts to contact one or both of the killers, it's actually a logical suggestion.

we're all guessing at which condition he broke.

but suggesting he tried to contact thompson, which would be one of the more sinister reasons, is sensationalist and scare-mongering.

if i had young kids and lived whereever these two are, i'd be pretty damn scared if i thought they were meeting up again.

there has been nothing to suggest that's what venables did. for all we know, he may have just strayed 0.1 of a mile within whatever area he's not supposed to be in.

and i dont think the two killers contacting each other can be likened to denise bolger trying to contact tehm. if i were her, i'd want to meet them. i'd want to look into their eyes and ask them why they did it. it may not bring me any comfort, but i'd still want to do it.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 03-03-2010 12:40PM

walshb wrote: »

I read extensive coverage about this and both boys had issues, family issues and all that.
Pretty rough really. Thompson's upbringing was worse from what I read.

Very good read

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/young/bulger/1.html

Very, very good reading. Chilling in places, I'm just on the third page & taking a little break from it.

walshb · 03-03-2010 12:42PM

Tiana Odd Starvation wrote: »

Very, very good reading. Chilling in places, I'm just on the third page & taking a little break from it.

Best crime site on the net, very informative.

xzanti · 03-03-2010 01:18PM

robinph wrote: »

Especially as he's spent all of his time since the age of 10 under the supervision of the state, no telling what nasty things they may have taught him during that time.

Hmm, yeah I'm sure he's 'hugged it out' with some therapist..

wobblyknees · 03-03-2010 01:26PM

sam34 wrote: »

we're all guessing at which condition he broke.

but suggesting he tried to contact thompson, which would be one of the more sinister reasons, is sensationalist and scare-mongering.

if i had young kids and lived whereever these two are, i'd be pretty damn scared if i thought they were meeting up again.

there has been nothing to suggest that's what venables did. for all we know, he may have just strayed 0.1 of a mile within whatever area he's not supposed to be in.

and i dont think the two killers contacting each other can be likened to denise bolger trying to contact tehm. if i were her, i'd want to meet them. i'd want to look into their eyes and ask them why they did it. it may not bring me any comfort, but i'd still want to do it.

I don't think it is sensasionalist at all. Venables is/was apparantly a born again christian and may have wanted to do the right thing and make contact with Thompson to 'help' him. He may also as you say have travelled to Bootle/Liverpool, for in his mind genuine reasons/closure, but given the publicity and anger surrounding the case, this was deemed unacceptable and so he's been thrown back in jail.

As far as I am aware Denise knew where Venables was but couldn't face him. She was looking for closure but couldn't face her own fears/anger in the end.

For the record, if it was me, I would hunt them down as well. But I wouldnt kill them, I'd put the fear of god into them every day (and night) of their lives.

IrishManSaipan · 03-03-2010 01:34PM

I hope he gets "sugar coated" in prison.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 03-03-2010 01:38PM

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

I hope he gets "sugar coated" in prison.

I've no idea what that mean's, but read this from the link posted by WalshB above..

On Sunday morning, a train engineer noticed something on the tracks that looked like a doll. At first it didn't strike him as unusual — neighborhood kids routinely laid things out on the tracks. But after he thought about the missing child, he called the police that evening.

"It's a cat. It's a cat wrapped up. Then we seen its legs."

Four boys found James's body on the tracks on Sunday afternoon, when they went up to the railroad to look for footballs. At first they thought he was cat, then a doll, torn into two. Jon and Robert had laid out James directly on the track, aware that a train would come by soon. Perhaps they believed that the community would think it was an accident that James had wandered up to the tracks on his own and was run over. Or that if the train hit James, it would destroy all clues.

His upper body was hidden within the coat. His lower body was further down the tracks, completely undressed. He had suffered 42 injuries, most to his face and head and had not died during the attack, but some time before the train hit him. Jon and Robert had left him while he was still alive.

Crime Scene (POLICE)Investigators stopped all approaching trains. Led by Detective Albert Kirby, police roped off the tracks and shielded the scene from bystanders and reporters. James's body had been severed with some distance in between. It was as if there were two crime scenes, two bodies to examine. The upper part of his body, at first, appeared to be nothing more than a bundle of clothing. His lower half, however, was starkly naked. Police determined that James had been laid by the waist onto the rail, with his upper body on the inside of the tracks. It looked as if his head had been covered with bricks, but the force of the train disturbed the arrangement. The lower half of his body had been carried further down the track.

His clothing, which had been removed from the waist down, was laid near his head. His underwear was heavily soaked with blood. Nearby police found a heavy iron bar, two feet long, with bloodstains, and many bricks and stones with blood. They also found 3 AA batteries near the body. These batteries intrigued the investigators, who had suspicions about their placement before James was hit by the train. A tin of blue paint was also found nearby. James had been severely beaten around the head and neck. There had been fractures, cuts, bruises caused by blows from heavy blunt objects and there had been severe bleeding. On one cheek, a patterned bruise appeared, which indicated the imprint from a shoe. Although there was no conclusive evidence indicating a sexual assault, forensic specialists believed that some of the injuries below the waist were suspicious and sexual in nature.

Even the most experienced investigators were shocked and dismayed by the injuries to James. "You slip into professional mode, but you can never, ever forget," said Kirby, years later. It was bad enough that he had been abducted and murdered, but the beating was brutal, incomprehensible.

Sweet mother, and some people here can find it within themselve to excuse this because the two murder's were only ten!.

James Bulger murderer Jon Venables returned to prison

Comments