Woman jailed after sex with 12-year-old 200 times!!!

AnonAccount · 28-02-2010 06:38PM

Alessandra wrote: »

I find what you have written extremely disturbing.
Children are not capable of legally giving consent and there are laws there for a reason. Maybe you did not feel that you were abused, but what that woman did to you, pleasurable or not was a crime.
Children should be children and the longer they can abstain from sexual exploration the better in my opinion.

I find this post quite disturbing. I wasn't any less of a child just because I had engaged in sexual activity. I didn't lose anything. In fact, I gained quite a lot.

I didn't state that what happened wasn't a crime. That doesn't mean what happened was wrong though.

It's this bizarre view that somehow sex corrupts children's 'innocence'. In my view, 'innocence' is just another word for 'ignorance'.

Kasabian · 28-02-2010 06:39PM

AnonAccount wrote: »

I'll stick around to answer any questions, and address any points.

It's a difficult topic, and I don't have any perfect solutions to kids sexuality. I just know that societies opinion is very lopsided at the moment and it results in more children being hurt.

P.S. What would you do if you found out your daughter was masturbating? Stick a chastity belt on her?

You have taken a thread about a news story that you haven't read to a meandering statement about your sexual experiences and the defense of a woman who "had sex" with a 12 year old and tried to turn it into something normal. Regarding my daughter I have explained what I would do elsewhere , so read the thread if you want to be active in it.

AnonAccount · 28-02-2010 06:44PM

Bonito wrote: »

Or maybe we actually read the news report :rolleyes:
Sorry but if this is giving consent in your eyes;

Then I don't know what to think.

FYP.

Again I point this bit to you.

This comment is redundant. There was no consent. It was repeated rape and abuse and the only reason the boy did not come forward sooner is this;

Note the "I had sex with you". Not "We had sex last night". She got him drunk to a state where she hoped he wouldn't remember the act then in fear of him remembering and telling people she told him he had to keep quiet.

You have a lot of faith in the media.

Assuming the information is true, then I fully support this woman being given a very heavy sentence. I know from first hand experience that the media can get things very very wrong, and sometimes quite deliberately.

Bonito · 28-02-2010 06:45PM

AnonAccount wrote: »

You have a lot of faith in the media.

Assuming the information is true, then I fully support this woman being given a very heavy sentence. I know from first hand experience that the media can get things very very wrong, and sometimes quite deliberately.

It is true. She has been found guilty and sentenced to 9 years. They are not allegations.

AnonAccount · 28-02-2010 06:47PM

Bonito wrote: »

It is true. She has been found guilty and sentenced to 9 years. They are not allegations.

Fair enough then. May she rot in hell.

Kasabian · 28-02-2010 06:50PM

AnonAccount wrote: »

You have a lot of faith in the media.

Assuming the information is true, then I fully support this woman being given a very heavy sentence. I know from first hand experience that the media can get things very very wrong, and sometimes quite deliberately.

Again read the news story.

I have a question for you , how would you react if you discovered that your 10 year old , who is mastubating , became sexually active with a neighbour of 17 that he came on to . Would he get a pat on the back and you take him for a pint? I am just wondering to the degree your liberal views go.

AnonAccount · 28-02-2010 07:07PM

lonad wrote: »

Again read the news story.

I have a question for you , how would you react if you discovered that your 10 year old , who is mastubating , became sexually active with a neighbour of 17 that he came on to . Would he get a pat on the back and you take him for a pint? I am just wondering to the degree your liberal views go.

It would be the same as if my son were 15, and attracted to a 16 year old. Both underage, and therefore illegal. For that reason, I would probably discourage the relationship. I'd not want my son, or the girl to get into any legal trouble for the sake of some good feelings.

Assuming the legal issue was not a concern....

I would be extremely concerned...naturally. I would need to be 100000% sure that he knew what he was doing, really wanted it, and that the 17 year old would not hurt him in any way. The relationship would have to be one where my son was an equal, and was not in any way coerced, manipulated or tricked. This may not even be possible, depending on my sons maturity and emotional development. It's different for every person. I was ready at age 10, but my son, and other children may not be. Hell, there are many 17 year olds not emotionally mature enough.

I believe that this scenario is an extremely unlikely event. I'd guess that what happened with me is not exactly common. Most children don't have an interest in sex (with others) until near puberty.

The greatest fear is of course that adults naturally have significant influence over kids and this can be used to harm them.

WindSock · 28-02-2010 07:09PM

Thanks for opening up about your past AA. It really goes to show how complex these issues are, and I have no doubt children are also sexualised beings, but there are unfortunatley elements in society that can prey on this as we know.

As to whether the child or the person themselves feels abused, that can be fairly personal and subjective. I can agree if I have kids I would rather protect them as much as I can from manipulative elements but at the same time not feel ashamed about their feelings and urges. I guess I would prefer it if they came to their own decisions themselves, but it is hard to imagine a 10-11 year old to do that.

I think society would more readily accept that a boy decided to have sex with a woman easier than a boy deciding to have sex with a man though. And I do wonder if that also reflects on whether a person themselves has felt they were abused or manipulated because of societies level of acceptance too.

Kasabian · 28-02-2010 07:52PM

AA , I am done , your views are too off my radar and I don't want to end up arguing it with you .

Bugnug · 28-02-2010 07:58PM

AnonAccount wrote: »

I thought I was clear, but please let me reiterate.

I am not defending what this money allegedly did. All I am saying is that society instantly jumps to the conclusion that the boy was groomed, forced, raped, threatened, bribed etc. It could very well be that this boy was emotionally mature enough for this and enjoyed it immensely. Legally, it is a crime, but the law isn't always right or fair.

Newspapers, TV stations etc are naturally biased, so you have to be mindful of that when viewing their stories. All we know for sure is that this boy and woman had sex about 200 times, and that at some point, for some reason she bought him some shoes. (Perhaps a bribe, or perhaps just a birthday present).

There are so many here willing to hang this woman out to dry without knowing anything about the boys opinion. This woman being arrested could be a relief for him, or it could be the most traumatic event of his life so far. We don't know, so we can't judge this woman fairly.

And that, is my point. Nothing more, nothing less. Don't presume the worst without facts.

Oh, and anyone who had sex before the legal age-of-consent cannot possibly condemn this woman if her actions were consensual. There is no difference, albeit perhaps in the age of the boy.

You are a very warped person if you think a 12 year old boy was enjoying and having consensual sex with an adult. A 12 year old boy should be in a safe protected environment with his parents and playing with his friends. 12 year old children are not well enough developed to make decisions about sex. I really hope that you do not have children or they are in for a very poor future. If you do have children or have 12 year old child relatives would you be so nonchalant if a 36 year old adult was raping them over 200 hundred times?

OutlawPete · 28-02-2010 08:25PM

Bugnug wrote: »

12 year old children are not well enough developed to make decisions about sex.

But they make them everyday.

What age do you consider them to be "well enough developed to make decisions about sex"?

Antbert · 28-02-2010 08:27PM

It's normal to be irked reading AA's post. It certainly made me feel uneasy. But most people are completely missing his point. And that is that perhaps the only way we feel so unpleasant about the situation (me included) is because of what society tells us. It's certainly true that in the past childhood ended far sooner and girls were married off at puberty. It's not a nice thought, but it'd be nice if people could see past that to possibly seeing why it's not a nice thought, instead of the usual reactionary blustering.

Pittens · 28-02-2010 08:33PM

What age do you consider them to be "well enough developed to make decisions about sex"?

Clearly 16 in England and 17 in ireland. Not a hour sooner. Not a minute sooner.And not a second sooner.

OutlawPete · 28-02-2010 08:37PM

Pittens wrote: »

Clearly 16 in England and 17 in ireland. Not a hour sooner. Not a minute sooner.And not a second sooner.

That's the law.

I asked, what YOU thought.

Or do you just think what the law tells you?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 28-02-2010 09:43PM

Alessandra wrote: »

I find what you have written extremely disturbing.

Problem with being sheltered to the outside world, too many people have been sheltered for too long...

Children are not capable of legally giving consent and there are laws there for a reason.

Yea, laws, created by some rich fat fcuk in parliment who knows sweet fcuk all about anything. How many laws have been made that are complete and utter bullcrap? Plenty.

Maybe you did not feel that you were abused, but what that woman did to you, pleasurable or not was a crime.

He wasn't abused... It's pretty simple really.

[/quote]Children should be children and the longer they can abstain from sexual exploration the better in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

So punish them if they begin exploring their sexuality before a set age, you know, because all humans become sexualy active on their 16th birthday, didn't you know?

Also, why is it better the longer they abstain from sex the better? Anything to do with the church? I think it has more to do with ignorance than anything really, but I would like to hear your views though.

lonad wrote: »

Bonito , are you referring to what I have posted or the post by AA. I have a sick feeling in my stomach after reading the views of AA and his attitude to his kids sexual exploration which has IMO been warped by his experience.

AA has his head screwed on, he is open about it and there is no harm in that whatsoever. As for keeping your kids sheltered from the outside world, you are doing a hell of a lot more harm than you might think.

I as a parent...

As, you must be right if you have kids... right? :rolleyes:

...who actively tries to shield my kids from the excesses of life that is thrown in their direction everyday find his post to be creepy.

Are you that conservative that his posts make you vomit? That's fcuking hilarious. Either way, you shelter your children, way to go... will your kids know anything when they go to secondary school? Will the other kids laugh at them and bully them because they have been so sheltered? Probably...

Bugnug wrote: »

You are a very warped person if you think a 12 year old boy was enjoying and having consensual sex with an adult.

You think it's impossible for a child to enjoy sex? Why? I am not talking about this case, but in general.

A 12 year old boy should be in a safe protected environment with his parents and playing with his friends.

You are right, they should be locked away from all the bad things in the world, then at the age of 18, fcuked head first into it. That's definately what any good parent would do, prevent their children from gaining the basic tools and skills to deal with life. Shelter them, fcuking lol... Also, if they are masterbating or having sex, then they need to be steralised, because they must be freaks of nature, right? :rolleyes:

12 year old children are not well enough developed to make decisions about sex.

Who the hell are you to say they are not capable of doing so? If two kids want to have sex at the age of 12 or 13 and they know what they are doing, they so be it. I don't think they should be told it's dirty, naughty or only for adults. They should be educated and told about what changes happen, they should understand the consequences of having sex.

I really hope that you do not have children or they are in for a very poor future.

What a horribly ignorant thing to say. Are you mystic meg? You don't know shít about AA or his children, you have no idea wtf you are talking about. He has his liberal views, and you have your extremely over the top conservative views and you have the cheek to call him a bad parent?

I bet you 1000 euro that his kids will turn out better than yours

If you do have children or have 12 year old child relatives would you be so nonchalant if a 36 year old adult was raping them over 200 hundred times?

I don't think anybody would be ok with this. Why do you suggest AA would be? Again, rape is another thing...

OutlawPete wrote: »

But they make them everyday.

What age do you consider them to be "well enough developed to make decisions about sex"?

16 obviously, some fat fcuk in the dail said so.

Pittens wrote: »

Clearly 16 in England and 17 in ireland. Not a hour sooner. Not a minute sooner.And not a second sooner.

Lol, and what should you do if you found two 13 or 14 year olds having sex? Lock them up? 16 and 17 is way past the average age of people having sex. The average is more like 14 or 15 and a lot younger for exploring.

Funny how people ignore our basic instincts as animals. We adhere to rules which are enforced to protect us, but that's not always the case. There is nothing wrong with young teens exploring their sexuality, once they are not taken advantage of or heavily influenced.

PeterIanStaker · 28-02-2010 10:12PM

she's as rough as a badgers arse, they must have been special limited edition trainers or something.

Ollchailin · 28-02-2010 10:33PM

Amongst the dozens of posts debating whether or not a 12 year old (or whatever age, a child anyway) should/should not be capable of making the decision to have sex, I don't think anyone has mentioned the consequences of making such a decision.

It's all well and good saying "At 10/11/12 I felt ready"- but what would you have done if you had made someone pregnant? Or became pregnant yourself? (I'm not even going to get into the STI's issue)

Now, I know you can be 28 and having sex, yet not be "ready" to have a baby- but surely as a parent, even if you think your child has a right to be "sexual" or whatever, you'd have to agree that 10 or 11 is WAY too early to have to deal with possible pregnancies resulting from sex at such a young age??

I don't have children, but there is no way I could sit by and allow my child to become sexually involved with somone if my child was as young as 10/11/12- even up to 16/17 I'd still be concerned obviously but I'd feel at least they has somewhat grown up at that stage and would hopefully be able to cope better should a pregnancy occur.

Then again, maybe it's because I'm a woman that this is the part that concerns me about the last number of posts. If I was a boy who wanted to have sex at 10/11/12, pregnancy isn't something I'd automatically think of, I'd imagine. I'd probably just think of the buzz of having sex.

All I know is that while a child might physically be ready to have sex, and while the child even might emotionally be ready to have such a personal experience with someone- I think it's insane to think he/she could deal with the possible consequences, and so that's why I'd discourage it.

p.s. The bit about about a boy not thinking about pregnancy wasn't meant to be a swipe at men, I just mean at that age it'd probably not be foremost in your mind, for a boy OR a girl.

irishhigh · 28-02-2010 10:49PM

bazmaiden wrote: »

A Teesside woman who had sex almost 200 times with a 12-year-old boy has been jailed for nine years.

Angela Sullivan gave the boy a pair of trainers as a reward when he slept with her for the 100th time!!!

This is pretty sick but I can't help but snigger!!!

Anyway full story here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/tees/8538638.stm

Who was counting?

Bonito · 28-02-2010 11:02PM

irishhigh wrote: »

Who was counting?

You should really read through links when they're put in a thread.....

AnonAccount · 01-03-2010 12:44AM

Bugnug wrote: »

You are a very warped person if you think a 12 year old boy was enjoying and having consensual sex with an adult. A 12 year old boy should be in a safe protected environment with his parents and playing with his friends. 12 year old children are not well enough developed to make decisions about sex. I really hope that you do not have children or they are in for a very poor future. If you do have children or have 12 year old child relatives would you be so nonchalant if a 36 year old adult was raping them over 200 hundred times?

I very much enjoyed it, and I knew precisely what I was doing. Perhaps most 12 year olds wouldn't. But some do, and that's one of my main points.

As for my children, they are happy carefree boys with 2 very dedicated parents. How dare you judge my parenting skills with so little knowledge of me and no knowledge of my wife & boys. My children have very bright futures.

AnonAccount · 01-03-2010 12:52AM

Ollchailin wrote: »

Amongst the dozens of posts debating whether or not a 12 year old (or whatever age, a child anyway) should/should not be capable of making the decision to have sex, I don't think anyone has mentioned the consequences of making such a decision.

It's all well and good saying "At 10/11/12 I felt ready"- but what would you have done if you had made someone pregnant? Or became pregnant yourself? (I'm not even going to get into the STI's issue)

Now, I know you can be 28 and having sex, yet not be "ready" to have a baby- but surely as a parent, even if you think your child has a right to be "sexual" or whatever, you'd have to agree that 10 or 11 is WAY too early to have to deal with possible pregnancies resulting from sex at such a young age??

I don't have children, but there is no way I could sit by and allow my child to become sexually involved with somone if my child was as young as 10/11/12- even up to 16/17 I'd still be concerned obviously but I'd feel at least they has somewhat grown up at that stage and would hopefully be able to cope better should a pregnancy occur.

Then again, maybe it's because I'm a woman that this is the part that concerns me about the last number of posts. If I was a boy who wanted to have sex at 10/11/12, pregnancy isn't something I'd automatically think of, I'd imagine. I'd probably just think of the buzz of having sex.

All I know is that while a child might physically be ready to have sex, and while the child even might emotionally be ready to have such a personal experience with someone- I think it's insane to think he/she could deal with the possible consequences, and so that's why I'd discourage it.

p.s. The bit about about a boy not thinking about pregnancy wasn't meant to be a swipe at men, I just mean at that age it'd probably not be foremost in your mind, for a boy OR a girl.

You are absolutely right. It is a big concern. Even legal age teens don't always take precaution against pregnancy. Perhaps if they had been raised in to be aware of sex & it's consequences from an earlier age, they would be. Education is vital.

Ignorance (aka 'innocence') is such a huge danger to children. I'm not suggesting they be given hard core porn (I despise porn), but education is key. Afterall, we teach our children how to cross roads safely, to be aware of the dangers of electricity, hot water etc. We given them the knowledge to protect themselves in every area except sex. And that is shocking to me.

AnonAccount · 01-03-2010 12:54AM

Last post for the night.

Just wanted to thank Iamxavier for his post. Very brave in such a hostile environment and society.

bazmaiden · 01-03-2010 12:55AM

ok people this is getting a little too serious so can we maybe could we request to close/lock this thread, when it's becoming this personal and some people are getting so offended while sharing stories that are just so shocking then i think it's time to leave it.

Thank you

AnonAccount · 01-03-2010 01:02AM

bazmaiden wrote: »

ok people this is getting a little too serious so can we maybe could we request to close/lock this thread, when it's becoming this personal and some people are getting so offended while sharing stories that are just so shocking then i think it's time to leave it.

Thank you

Actually, the responses have been far more civil than expected.

But maybe it's gone a little too off-topic now.

(Ok, so this is my last post for the night)

Dudess · 01-03-2010 01:04AM

AnonAccount wrote: »

such a hostile environment and society.

You'd swear people here were being super-prudish towards you...

Bonito · 01-03-2010 01:10AM

Dudess wrote: »

You'd swear people here were being super-prudish towards you...

If Anon was REALLY comfortable about their past and not bothered by it I can't see why they've chosen to go Anon for posting...

Obviously knowing what others think about them bother them.

Ollchailin · 01-03-2010 01:12AM

AnonAccount wrote: »

You are absolutely right. It is a big concern. Even legal age teens don't always take precaution against pregnancy. Perhaps if they had been raised in to be aware of sex & it's consequences from an earlier age, they would be. Education is vital.

Ignorance (aka 'innocence') is such a huge danger to children. I'm not suggesting they be given hard core porn (I despise porn), but education is key. Afterall, we teach our children how to cross roads safely, to be aware of the dangers of electricity, hot water etc. We given them the knowledge to protect themselves in every area except sex. And that is shocking to me.

Well whilst I agree with you that we need to ensure we educate our children regarding sex, I disagree that ignorance is aka innocence. As in, it's innocent for a child of 6 to be unaware of all the details of sex, but it's not ignorant. Having said that, it's ignorant for an adult to think that even children that young won't have had thoughts of a sexual nature, even if it's as mild as saying they have a "boyfriend" in their class or something. The "birds and the bees" thing doesn't just pop into your head when you turn 13.

Also, with my teacher hat on, as regards sex ed, parents are ignorant if they think it should be up to schools to do this job. (AA, I'm not saying this at you, it's a general comment) Yes, it should be done in schools, put parents are the no.1 educators in this area. Sit down and TALK to your children. Do not just give them a book/video and say "Look at this". They WILL have questions. A book doesn't talk back. You can.

donfers · 01-03-2010 01:23AM

AnonAccount wrote: »

(Note: I'm using an anonymous duplicate account to protect my identity. Mods, I hope this is ok. Also, I wouldn't go through all the hassle of setting up a new account to just troll)

I've resisted replying to this thread until now, but I simply must reply after reading through all these ignorant responses.

I should mention first that I am male.

I first started masturbating when I was 6. I just realised one day that it felt nice to rub 'down there' and I just picked it up from there. I hadn't a clue that it was sexual though. And when my parents found out, they just told me it should be done in private and left it at that.

By the time I was 8 I had taught many of my friends about masturbating, and we eventually started masturbating each other. Then some girls got involved and we figured out how girls can masturbate as well. Some porno magazines brought to us by my best friend filled in many of the gaps in our sexual knowledge and we started expirimenting. I think the best day was discovering the joy of orgasms! It was likely discovering the best kept secret in the world.

By aged 10, I was actively seeking sexual contact with others and had a crush on a few teen girls & women I knew. I would, in my own very awkward way, flirt with them and see what sort of responses I got.
Aged 11, I got the response I was looking for from a 19 year old neighbour. Not exactly 'hot' looking, but I really didn't care. She was interested, and I encouraged it. It wasn't long before she got the courage to kiss me. Quite gentle and kinda 'half innocent' at first, but slowly becoming more sexual as I obviously enjoyed it. Within weeks we were naked, masturbating each other and I was getting oral sex. I didn't want to 'return the favor', and although she was quite pushy about it, she accepted that. I did eventually do it for her birthday as a present though.
By aged 12, we were doing everything, and quite frequently. It only stopped when my family moved to another area over 80 miles away, and my parents to this day still don't understand why I protested so much about moving. Mobile phones weren't common at the time so we lost touch.

Now, according to all the posts above, I was sexually abused and suffered a horrendously traumatic childhood that has probably left me emotionally damaged. But I can tell you, those were by far the best years of my life. I felt loved, had something to look forward to, and I thought things couldn't get any better. All of the boy/girls that I still have contact with from those years of fooling around with each other, appear to be normal happy adults now. All but one is married and most have kids of their own.

So why am I a happy, well adjusted adult despite all this 'abuse'? Because it wasn't abuse. The trauma comes from being forced, or from the shame of being forced. I was neither forced nor ashamed.

Try to see it this way....
Intercourse can be one of the most amazing things or earth, of it can be the most traumatic, invasive and pyschologically hurtful thing. In rape & consensual sex, the physical act is identical. The ONLY difference is the consent. You remove the consent, and you create extreme trauma & shame. This applies to children as well as adults..

Most of these stories you hear in the news about sexual abuse revolve around people who were forced. And I'm right there with my pitchfork and torch looking to maim, torture and kill those responsible for this abuse.

Only rarely do we see a case where there was consensual sex which only accidentally was discovered. And when this occurs, we apply the same anger, disgust and hatred that we reserve for the true abuse cases. People assume abuse, they assume injury, they assume coercion & trauma even when there likely was none. In this particular case, the boy was probably quite happy to continue having sex with this woman. As for the gifts, when was the last time you bought your girlfriend/boyfriend a gift? Of course, we don't really know the exact nature of their relationship. Perhaps it was abusive. I don't know. But I'm not willing to automatically assume it was abusive like 99% of the people in this thread, and indeed in society.

Society considers sex to be dirty and wrong. People, especially children naturally feel shame when doing something dirty & wrong. This shame causes a lot of the trauma associated with abuse. They rest comes from the feeling of helplessness, the breach of trust & the fear instilled by abusers.

BTW, I have a unique experience in that I was sexually assaulted by a male when I was 14. I know exactly what it feels like to be abused, and more importantly, I know the difference between that and the consentual sexual activity that I was involved in previously.

I'd also like to point out that I am aware that many children are not mature enough to consent, and would be physically harmed by many sexual activities. I do not support anything that would harm a child. But I do believe that the 'age of consent' concept is extremely flawed as some children are indeed able to consent, and would not be harmed in the right circumstances, especially when it comes to child-child sexual contact.

I'd also like to make it extremely clear that I personally have no sexual interest in children. I am happily married to a wonderful women and have 2 children (aged 6 and 10). I am extremely protective of my children, and understand just how vunerable they are. But I'm also aware that they are sexual beings. Both my boys masturbate and it appears to cause them no harm. If they choose to 'fool around' with friends as I did, I wouldn't stop them so long as nobody was being forced.

In summary, please accept and be aware that children can, in the right circumstance, enjoy sexual actively and benefit greatly from it. It's not always abuse. Remember, you will almost never ever hear about all the cases of consentual sexual activity that occurs daily between children and between adults & children. E.G. my story...

I would ask the mods not to delete this post. I know it is perhaps a little graphic for AH, but it's a genuine posts based on genuine experiences and people need to see all sides.

Thank you all.

very brave post

Can I ask you then if the genders were reversed and it was a 12 year old girl who was curious about sex and found a 19 year old male neighbour more than ready to satisfy this curiousity- then would you be equally as tolerant/understanding?

basically is there any gender bias in your philosophy here? there doesn't seem to be but go ahead and clarify when you can

OutlawPete · 01-03-2010 02:02AM

Bonito wrote: »

I can't see why they've chosen to go Anon for posting....

What and have everything know the Outlaw's past? Lose my ubercool status??

I mean ..

Yeah, what's with the anon account .. :cool:

recylingbin · 01-03-2010 02:04AM

I'd be less outraged if she didn't look like she fell out of Beelzebub's arse.

Woman jailed after sex with 12-year-old 200 times!!!

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