PSNI stoping southern cars

hi_sir · 08-12-2009 2:03am #1

http://www.derryjournal.com/journal/Rage-as-Donegal-drivers-targeted.5885690.jp

herd ones on about this,is this usual or is it just a couple of cops been well in my oppinion anti southern,not good vibe anyway with the thousands crossing the border to go shoping in derry

Victor · 08-12-2009 2:59am

Thanks to the historically lax of the Garda, Irish people don't respect the law.

50%+ of Irish trucks stopped in foreign roadside checks do not comply with safety regulations.

I think this is a good development.

][cEMAN** · 08-12-2009 1:02pm

I wouldn't read into this as a cross border issue. The PSNI have been setting up roadblocks and checking for TAX for a long while now. It's not just on the border roads either. It's for everyone. TAX stops are the new speeding tickets.

I'm surprised this is the first mention of it.

As for those who say they'll not be back again because of it, that's entirely their choice. They're getting cheaper goods coming across the border, and going back again. All that's expected is that they keep to the laws set out to be on the road in the first place.

I know that sounds harsh, but "I didn't know" doesn't cut it in the real world.

Any mother who doesn't bring a buggy for their child in the back of the car, could only have the reason of there being not enough room considering the amount she was expecting to buy. Lack of forsight on her part. Should always put your kids first.

GAAman · 08-12-2009 2:23pm

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;63394003']
Any mother who doesn't bring a buggy for their child in the back of the car, could only have the reason of there being not enough room considering the amount she was expecting to buy. Lack of forsight on her part. Should always put your kids first.

Or maybe she didnt think she was going to need the buggy as she would be clamped for her tax being two days out of date, while her new disc was on it's way, which whenever i have heard of this before there was allowances even to the point of the driver being asked to provide the new details to the particular officers station within a certain time period

Given the child is just over a year old carrying them while shopping is easily done, and for ease most shopping trolleys have child seats so a buggy is unnecessary full stop

Given as you would know, donegal drivers come over for shopping regularly there is no reason to think this woman was doing a big shop and didnt bring the buggy for space purposes

Wile E. Coyote · 08-12-2009 2:36pm

GAAman wrote: »

while her new disc was on it's way,

She wasn't waiting on a new tax disc she was waiting on her insurance cert to be issued so she could pay for her tax.

There's no excuse for not knowing the rules of the road or driving a car that shouldn't legally be on the road. The sooner they start seizing cars that have no tax and no insurance down here the better. Take the lot of them off the road and maybe everyone elses insurance will come down a bit.

Victor · 08-12-2009 2:41pm

GAAman wrote: »

while her new disc was on it's way

You mean while she couldn't demonstrate that she had insurance?

GAAman · 08-12-2009 2:58pm

Victor wrote: »

You mean while she couldn't demonstrate that she had insurance?

Ah i misread that part but again i know of at least one person (a friend of mine) in a similar situation with insurance and was allowed to produce the documents to prove what he said within 2 weeks, this is a mother of at least one not just a little boy racer who couldnt be arsed to pay insurance

we'llallhavetea_old · 08-12-2009 3:03pm

dont go up the north without tax and insurance... then you wont get clamped?

Fiann · 09-12-2009 4:48pm

hi_sir wrote: »

http://www.derryjournal.com/journal/Rage-as-Donegal-drivers-targeted.5885690.jp

herd ones on about this,is this usual or is it just a couple of cops been well in my oppinion anti southern,not good vibe anyway with the thousands crossing the border to go shoping in derry

Nine police officers from the apartheid state last week completed a stay in the Six Counties where they were studying how the PSNI deals with what they call “community tensions”.

Perhaps they were showing the Israeli police force the proper harassing methods.

Seanog69 · 31-01-2010 4:15pm

hi_sir wrote: »

http://www.derryjournal.com/journal/Rage-as-Donegal-drivers-targeted.5885690.jp

herd ones on about this,is this usual or is it just a couple of cops been well in my oppinion anti southern,not good vibe anyway with the thousands crossing the border to go shoping in derry

The roadside vehicle tax checks are carried out by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing agency, and the PSNI are there to stop the traffic in the first instance as they are the only ones with the authority to routinely stop traffic on the road and cars without a valid tax disc - from any jurisdiction - are referred to the DVLA inspectors, who then decide how to deal with each case. They clamp blatant offenders or offenders likely not to respond to any further summons ( e.g. those living outside N.Ireland). If it's any consolation to you, the vast majority of drivers whose cars are clamped are from the six counties. Personally, I'm against clamping, and in fact I think motorists are taxed way beyond what is reasonable, but it's beng made out to be some kind of vendetta against Irish registered cars, but I'm sure it's not. As an earlier poster has said, if your car is properly taxed etc, you've nothing to worry about.

And no, I don't work for the government in any shape or form, but I have no sympathy for people driving around in vehicles without tax, MOT or insurance. It's not as if they didn't know these things are compulsory....

Fiann · 01-02-2010 4:07pm

Thanks for your comments, better late than never eh. I have found the RUC to less than helpful in many cases.

pow wow · 01-02-2010 7:30pm

Fiann wrote: »

Thanks for your comments, better late than never eh. I have found the RUC to less than helpful in many cases.

I think you mean the PSNI.

Seanog69 · 01-02-2010 9:41pm

Ruc - Green shirt , PSNI white shirt.

muffler · 02-02-2010 12:32am

Keep her between the ditches (and on topic) please.

Fiann · 02-02-2010 3:35pm

pow wow wrote: »

I think you mean the PSNI.

A rose by any other name...

Fiann · 02-02-2010 3:46pm

muffler wrote: »

Keep her between the ditches (and on topic) please.

Right on Muffler!

ScouseMouse · 02-02-2010 3:50pm

Its simple. Keep your car legal and dont have any grief.

If you think this is anything to do with southern discrimination, then please do show us. The cops in the north are on top of this while over on this side, its a joke.

Regularly, we get reports of crashes in Donegal by speeding/young racers/cross border ejits and its because there is not enough enforcement in the south.

Kotek Besar · 23-02-2010 6:39pm

Can I just ask, is this only happening in Londonderry, or is it in other parts of the UK, too?

Fiann · 23-02-2010 9:07pm

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Can I just ask, is this only happening in Londonderry, or is it in other parts of the UK, too?

Derry City Councillor Elisha McLaughlin says the PSNI's ongoing use of stop and search, granted under Section 44 of the UK's Terrorism Act, "seriously undermines" their work in the city. Her comments comes as the latest PSNI figures show more people were stopped and searched in Derry between July and September last year than in any other region in the North. A total of 2203 searches were carried out in Derry, while stop and search powers were used 1,305 times in Strabane. By comparison the S44 powers were used only once in Larne.

Kotek Besar · 23-02-2010 9:13pm

Fiann wrote: »

Derry City Councillor Elisha McLaughlin says the PSNI's ongoing use of stop and search, granted under Section 44 of the UK's Terrorism Act, "seriously undermines" their work in the city. Her comments comes as the latest PSNI figures show more people were stopped and searched in Derry between July and September last year than in any other region in the North. A total of 2203 searches were carried out in Derry, while stop and search powers were used 1,305 times in Strabane. By comparison the S44 powers were used only once in Larne.

Ok so it happens in Londonderry and in other parts of Northern Ireland, what about elsewhere in the UK? Can Irish cars be stopped there too?

aquascrotum · 24-02-2010 1:26pm

Fiann wrote: »

Derry City Councillor Elisha McLaughlin says the PSNI's ongoing use of stop and search, granted under Section 44 of the UK's Terrorism Act, "seriously undermines" their work in the city. Her comments comes as the latest PSNI figures show more people were stopped and searched in Derry between July and September last year than in any other region in the North. A total of 2203 searches were carried out in Derry, while stop and search powers were used 1,305 times in Strabane. By comparison the S44 powers were used only once in Larne.

Stop and search has nothing to do with road tax enforcement - the thread is related to the PSNI clamping cars on behalf of the DVA.

Kotek Besar wrote:

Ok so it happens in Londonderry and in other parts of Northern Ireland, what about elsewhere in the UK? Can Irish cars be stopped there too?

The police in any jurisdiction can stop and clamp your car if it doesnt comply with tax and other requirements (MOT/NCT)

The garda could clamp any number of UK reg cars in the RoI that are either owned by RoI residents who see the UK reg as a loophole to avoid Irish tax/VRT/NCT etc, or are owned by UK/NI border region residents who spend most of their time in RoI - that the Garda have apparently no desire to clamp down (excuse the pun) is no fault of the PSNI.

CoNfOuNd · 24-02-2010 1:36pm

I don't think this is a Derry-issue. I regularly get stopped around Belfast. It's a good thing if cars without tax or insurance are being clamped/confiscated but there should be some lee-way if your tax has only just expired, and it's definitely a pity if you just drive across the border and your first experience of NI is having your car confiscated!

bud1970 · 24-02-2010 1:40pm

i've heard recently that the cops are lifting cars if the tax is 2 days out of date or more!!! bit harsh imho......

aquascrotum · 24-02-2010 1:46pm

bud1970 wrote: »

i've heard recently that the cops are lifting cars if the tax is 2 days out of date or more!!! bit harsh imho......

Same rules for everyone.

If your car isnt road legal (i.e. taxed and MOTd) it doesnt go on the road. If your car is so vital to your every day life that you can't live without it then its important enough to make sure your on top of keeping tax and MOT up to date.

Simples.

ardmacha · 24-02-2010 1:58pm

It is all very fine to say keep your car legal etc etc. However an otherwise law abiding motorist having road tax that is two days out, which will have to be paid anyway, is a minor issue. Clamping a car is an excessive penalty for such an offence and should only arise if there is a clear evasion of motor tax rather than a few days delay. A proportionate policy would be a a a warning for a few days, a small fine if the tax is less than a month out and harsher penalties after that. The law is brought into disrepute if law enforcement imposes disproportionate penalties in some instances and largely ignores more serious matters. Were you stopped for an actual traffic offence, you would be free to drive off afterwards without being clamped.

As to discrimination Seanog69 stated "They clamp blatant offenders or offenders likely not to respond to any further summons ( e.g. those living outside N.Ireland)", so this implies that there is discrimination, which is a disgrace in this day and age.

aquascrotum · 24-02-2010 2:22pm

ardmacha wrote: »

It is all very fine to say keep your car legal etc etc. However an otherwise law abiding motorist having road tax that is two days out, which will have to be paid anyway, is a minor issue. Clamping a car is an excessive penalty for such an offence and should only arise if there is a clear evasion of motor tax rather than a few days delay. A proportionate policy would be a a a warning for a few days, a small fine if the tax is less than a month out and harsher penalties after that. The law is brought into disrepute if law enforcement imposes disproportionate penalties in some instances and largely ignores more serious matters. Were you stopped for an actual traffic offence, you would be free to drive off afterwards without being clamped.

As to discrimination Seanog69 stated "They clamp blatant offenders or offenders likely not to respond to any further summons ( e.g. those living outside N.Ireland)", so this implies that there is discrimination, which is a disgrace in this day and age.

Have to disagree.

In the case of road tax, in instances where tax is lapsed quite often this coincides with the vehicle not having been registered to the new owner - in which case there is no means of following up after a period to ensure that the vehicle is taxed because there is no means of looking up contact details.

In addition lapsed tax offenders are also liable to have "forgotten" insurance - the PSNI has no means of checking insurance for RoI vehicles. Many insurance policies will state that the policy is void in the event a claim is made and the vehicle isnt taxed or MOT'd. Any vehicle in NI found uninsured (through lack of a policy or a voided policy) will be seized immediately as far as I know.

The rules are there, they're well known. Regardless whether we're taxed too much or not, they exist, we all know them, if anyone chooses to disregard them through dishonesty or negligence and gets caught - tough.

ardmacha · 24-02-2010 2:48pm

In the case of road tax, in instances where tax is lapsed quite often this coincides with the vehicle not having been registered to the new owner - in which case there is no means of following up after a period to ensure that the vehicle is taxed because there is no means of looking up contact details.

Then this requires penalties where new owners do not register cars, not penalties where existing owners delay renewing tax by a couple of days.

In addition lapsed tax offenders are also liable to have "forgotten" insurance - the PSNI has no means of checking insurance for RoI vehicles. Many insurance policies will state that the policy is void in the event a claim is made and the vehicle isnt taxed or MOT'd.

No insurance policy is voided through your tax disc being 2 days out of date. Of course the PSNI can check insurance, it may be less convenient for them to do so, but their inefficient arrangements are not a reason to harass motorists.

The rules are there, they're well known.

Some people here have suggested that they are not well known. Unreasonable rules are never well known as they do not make sense.

Regardless whether we're taxed too much or not, they exist, we all know them, if anyone chooses to disregard them through dishonesty or negligence and gets caught - tough.

Whether it is tough or not does not prevent people pointing out unjust or discriminatory laws set up for the convenience of bureaucrats. Such laws do not help law enforcement in society, especially In Derry where the moral authority of the law is in question.

aquascrotum · 24-02-2010 4:14pm

ardmacha wrote: »

No insurance policy is voided through your tax disc being out of date.

Tell that to my former employers insurer and the magistrate that dealt with the case.

There is no excuse for not taxing the car in time. Whether in NI or RoI you get reminders min. 1 month in advance. Both NI and RoI have online renewal facilities.

That being the case, whether it is 2 days or 2 months overdue, the vehicle is not licenced for use on the public road and, at best dependant on the insurer, is not insured for use on the road.

If there is a problem with the law then that is where the problem lies and direct aggro there, but crying foul that the PSNI/DVA are doing their job is a nonsense.

Regardless, it is widely known (and talked about on this thread) that cars are stopped and checkpoints are in place throughout NI for tax and MOT - it is not Derry specific. That there are a large number of Donegal cars in Derry on a daily basis, and that uptake of road tax is less in RoI, is a sorry coincidence.

ardmacha · 24-02-2010 8:16pm

That being the case, whether it is 2 days or 2 months overdue, the vehicle is not licenced for use on the public road and, at best dependant on the insurer, is not insured for use on the road.

I have no problem whatsoever with exacting penalties against uninsured motorists, in fact I applaud it. But such penalties should be exacted for not having insurance, not motor tax.

If there is a problem with the law then that is where the problem lies and direct aggro there, but crying foul that the PSNI/DVA are doing their job is a nonsense.

Police officers have discretion in how legislation is applied. As noted by the journalist in this article only ROI cars were being stopped, which suggests partisan implementation of the law. NI should not have political policing, a great deal of damage has been done by such approaches in the past. It is sad to see that it continues.

PSNI stoping southern cars

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