Volvo V50 sick of Uk Eire price differences

Tea 1000 · 23-02-2010 10:05PM

VolvoMan wrote: »

I can't say that I've seen that many new Passat's in comparison to them anyway, which is probably down to the new Superb being a far better car in every way among other things.

Not sure how it's "far better in every way" when it's worse in terms of engine, the 2.0 TDi is the PD unit with €305 tax, the Passat has the new CR one with €156 tax. They're very similar, if one is comfortable then so will the other one be. The Superb is 73mm longer (half the length of a pen), so that translates into a little more rear leg room, but other than that the Superb is the same car for €3,000 less. Who knows what trade-in values will be like on the new Superb. They were terrible on the old one.
To the OP, just import one if you want one. I'd go for the Insignia though, the S40 is fine, but a little over-rated by Volvo fans! If it's a Volvo you want then I'd look for a 2 year old new-shape S80 with the 2.4 diesel!

Leonard Hofstadter · 23-02-2010 10:19PM

R.O.R wrote: »

PSA have always made cracking Diesel engines

The only thing "cracking" about that engine is the unreliability of it.

People either seem to be lucky and never have trouble, those that are less fortunate have DPF troubles, engine losing power and going into limp mode, turbo troubles etc.

In fairness (and without wishing to sound like a caveman who has his head buried under the sand for the past 10 years and hasn't heard about common rail) modern diesels are good for bringing tax and CO2 down but f*** all good at anything else. Yes when they work it's great and with turbos and direct injection becoming ever more common in petrol engines(though a low pressure turbo which I presume most petrols are using should hardly be all that taxing on a petrol engine) the reliability disadvantage of a diesel will be considerably reduced(that's not a good thing mind because this means that soon enough the concept of a reliable engine will be just that - a concept) but there is so much complicated stuff in a modern diesel and when it goes wrong it costs so much to put right. Modern petrols without all this complication are very good reliability generally speaking, there are a few disasters here and there like BMW's 2.0 but in general the most you have to worry about with petrols these days is coil packs and MAFs which while a nuiscance is hardly the end of the world, relatively speaking these jobs are inexpensive compared to some of the work needed to fix a modern diesel when it goes wrong.

Tea 1000 · 23-02-2010 10:27PM

captainspeed wrote: »

The only thing "cracking" about that engine is the unreliability of it.

People either seem to be lucky and never have trouble, those that are less fortunate have DPF troubles, engine losing power and going into limp mode, turbo troubles etc.

In fairness (and without wishing to sound like a caveman who has his head buried under the sand for the past 10 years and hasn't heard about common rail) modern diesels are good for bringing tax and CO2 down but f*** all good at anything else. Yes when they work it's great and with turbos and direct injection becoming ever more common in petrol engines(though a low pressure turbo which I presume most petrols are using should hardly be all that taxing on a petrol engine) the reliability disadvantage of a diesel will be considerably reduced(that's not a good thing mind because this means that soon enough the concept of a reliable engine will be just that - a concept) but there is so much complicated stuff in a modern diesel and when it goes wrong it costs so much to put right. Modern petrols without all this complication are very good reliability generally speaking, there are a few disasters here and there like BMW's 2.0 but in general the most you have to worry about with petrols these days is coil packs and MAFs which while a nuiscance is hardly the end of the world, relatively speaking these jobs are inexpensive compared to some of the work needed to fix a modern diesel when it goes wrong.

I agree with you that modern diesels are a lot less reliable than petrols, they're getting an awful lot out of every drop of diesel. 200bhp and 60mpg doesn't come easily!
However, rather than blame manufacturers, I'd look to the diesel fuel on sale in this country instead. It's still treated as an agrictural fuel. Petrol was always transported, stored and filtered carefully to keep it in excellent condition as petrol engines would be fussy. Diesels used never be fussy until they started becoming high-tech. I wonder how the fuel has changed to cater for this? Not much I'd bet.

Leonard Hofstadter · 23-02-2010 10:29PM

bazz26 wrote: »

The S40 was never designed to be a Mondeo sized car, the S60 did that and even used the Mondeo chassis. And I'm on my second car with a HDi engine and both have been trouble free up to this point.

The outgoing S60 never used a Mondeo chassis - it was one of the very last Volvos to be launched that was an in house design, and it was all the better for it.

The new one is a Mondeo though;)!

The Superb is a WAY better car than the Passat, it has less complicated stuff in it as well(no electronic parking brake) so it will be more reliable.
If it wasn't for the badge everyone would buy it. Sadly the rose tinted glasses come on and people insist that an A6 is a better car:rolleyes:.

The Estate is a WAY better looking car than the saloon too. Plus, have you seen the spec list for even the mid range Ambition model?

The 2.0 PD 140 PS has just been replaced by a 2.0 CR with an identical 140 PS too(don't know if it has arrived in Ireland yet but it is in the UK now), making it all the better:)!

mcshape · 23-02-2010 11:16PM

+1 on the superb

VolvoMan · 23-02-2010 11:23PM

bazz26 wrote: »

The S40 was never designed to be a Mondeo sized car, the S60 did that and even used the Mondeo chassis. And I'm on my second car with a HDi engine and both have been trouble free up to this point.

The outgoing was a smaller car than the Mondeo and was the second last car to be developed independently before Ford unfortunately took over. It was based on the P2 platform shared with the last generation S80, V70 and which the XC90 still currently uses. Ford have actually robbed this platform design themselves for a lot their US market cars, not just the five cylinder engines that power their European performance range, all developed and used in Volvo cars prior to their acquisition in 1999.

The S40 and V50 were actually the first cars that Ford had true involvement in.

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Not sure how it's "far better in every way" when it's worse in terms of engine, the 2.0 TDi is the PD unit with €305 tax, the Passat has the new CR one with €156 tax. They're very similar, if one is comfortable then so will the other one be. The Superb is 73mm longer (half the length of a pen), so that translates into a little more rear leg room, but other than that the Superb is the same car for €3,000 less. Who knows what trade-in values will be like on the new Superb. They were terrible on the old one.
To the OP, just import one if you want one. I'd go for the Insignia though, the S40 is fine, but a little over-rated by Volvo fans! If it's a Volvo you want then I'd look for a 2 year old new-shape S80 with the 2.4 diesel!

You will find that just in the past few days Skoda have announced that the Superb is getting the new common-rail engines. So the only reason I can now think of to buy a Passat over a Superb is looks maybe, as I will admit, the Superb is a hideous thing. For everything else though you would simply have to be mad to choose the former unless you are a complete and utter badge snob (which I'm in no way suggesting you are;)).

Tea 1000 · 24-02-2010 12:07AM

captainspeed wrote: »

The Superb is a WAY better car than the Passat, it has less complicated stuff in it as well(no electronic parking brake) so it will be more reliable.
If it wasn't for the badge everyone would buy it.

Rubbish. Electronic parking brake is only one item. You can't say in one hand "the superb is better equiped" and then utter "it has less complicated stuff". Who's the fanboy with the rose tinted glasses here? I'm not a VAG fan by any means. But I call a spade a spade, which too few members of the Skoda brigade are willing to do. The Superb is better value than a Passat, that's certain. It is NOT a WAY better car, by virtue of the fact that it is almost exactly the same car. If you can't see that, then there's no point in discussing it further with you, as alas - you don't seem to know what you're talking about!!
As I said earlier, forget both and buy an Insignia. Opels best car since the Manta 400. (the VX220 is an Elise really!)

Drummerboy08 · 24-02-2010 12:21AM

This UK/Eire argument is getting really boring now.

I also love how the OP thinks he'll get a V50 to test drive for a week when he has no intentions of buying one here.

Actually, on the test drive note OP, I asked for a new S80 2.0d to test drive last week overnight - all Volvo could give me was a 1.6d DrivE SE Lux. For 4 hours.

Why dont you just go over to the UK and ask if they'll let you bring one home for the week, seen as they offer better service and that.

R.O.R · 24-02-2010 09:51AM

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Actually, on the test drive note OP, I asked for a new S80 2.0d to test drive last week overnight - all Volvo could give me was a 1.6d DrivE SE Lux. For 4 hours.

Was it taxed?

Towards the end of last year I had the same request to Volvo. They delivered me a 2008 model from Spirit's used stock that was 2 months out of tax :rolleyes:

The problems most people are having with the 1.6D Volvo's is caused by short, stop/start journeys clogging up the DPF. Kicks the car in to limp home mode.

We've had loads of 1.6D's (S40, V50, Focus) that have no trouble at all. The only one I can remember is an S40 that managed to do all of 35,000km in 3 years.

We've recently had the same issues with an Insignia because of the type of driving that's being done - not because of some design fault with the car.

Oh, and the Superb is a way better car than the Passat. It's actually better than the A6

Bill2673 · 24-02-2010 11:58AM

Saab Ed wrote: »

My point is that if you haggle in Ireland then there's a lot more discount to come off the list price than you think. Anyway you seem to have made up your mind already ( as is often the case with people who come on here to motor trade bash and not heed the advice of motor trade people on here :D ) so good luck with your purchase.

Saab Ed, for an innocent like myself could you expand on this? How much should I expect to get off a car that is retailing at €30k list price, if I pay cash up front? To the nearest €200 say.

Like the original poster, I'm also looking to buy a car....and I'd also like to support the local industry. But there is such a massive price difference at list price between here and the UK. I'm no expert on cars so how should I know that I'm supposed to haggle? i don't haggle when i'm buying a jacket from Arnotts.....

Another thing that gets me with local dealers is that for the various models I'm looking at.....they only sell the higher spec versions. And the sales rubbish that does with it....'nobody buys the lower spec, no demand for it, €1500 extra....leather trim'.....

Erren Music · 24-02-2010 12:51PM

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

This UK/Eire argument is getting really boring now.

Fair enough, but there is 4,000 euro's at stake, and thats not boring to me.

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I also love how the OP thinks he'll get a V50 to test drive for a week when he has no intentions of buying one here.

I have already booked a V50 for a 48 hour test for next weekend.

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Why dont you just go over to the UK and ask if they'll let you bring one home for the week, seen as they offer better service and that.

You should provide a much more logical argument instead of this petty comment.

Please address these issues instead of ranting.

Volvo UK giving €5,000 off in the UK and only €2,500 here.
Volvo doing 3 years servicing for £100stg in UK and not in Ireland.
3 year warranty in UK and only 2 here.
A brand new Volvo V50 1.6s for €21,000 in UK and €25,000 here.

If you have nothing constructive to add then rant somewhere else.

R.O.R · 24-02-2010 01:08PM

Erren Music wrote: »

Fair enough, but there is 5,000 euro's at stake, and thats not boring to me.

I have already booked a V50 for a 48 hour test for next weekend.

You should provide a much more logical argument instead of this petty comment.

Please address these issues instead of ranting.

Volvo UK giving €5,000 off in the UK and only €2,500 here.
Volvo doing 3 years servicing for £100stg in UK and not in Ireland.
3 year warranty in UK and only 2 here.
A brand new Volvo V50 1.6s for €21,000 in UK and €25,000 here.

If you have nothing constructive to add then rant somewhere else.

Road Tax in the UK is a lot cheaper than here.
Income tax is more in the UK than here.

The price of the car is more in Holland than it is here.
The price of the car is probably less in the USA than it is in the UK.

I also can throw out random statements about a foreign country in comparison to Ireland. They are all foreign countries.

Stuff is more expensive in Ireland than it is in the UK. If you are that bothered about it, either move to the UK and enjoy the cheaper life there - or stop moaning about stuff w have no control over and buy the car in the UK.

Erren Music · 24-02-2010 01:18PM

R.O.R wrote: »

Road Tax in the UK is a lot cheaper than here.
Income tax is more in the UK than here.

Not true anymore, our band a and band b cars are cheaper.

R.O.R wrote: »

The price of the car is more in Holland than it is here.
The price of the car is probably less in the USA than it is in the UK.

Ireland and N Ireland. I can drive for 1 hour and get the car 4,000 euro cheaper and still pay all the taxes.

R.O.R wrote: »

Stuff is more expensive in Ireland than it is in the UK. If you are that bothered about it, either move to the UK and enjoy the cheaper life there - or stop moaning about stuff w have no control over and buy the car in the UK.

This is another stupid statement by someone who has no answer to the questions I asked.

Why bother replying?

Erren Music · 24-02-2010 01:22PM

Bill2673 wrote: »

Saab Ed, for an innocent like myself could you expand on this? How much should I expect to get off a car that is retailing at €30k list price, if I pay cash up front? To the nearest €200 say.

Like the original poster, I'm also looking to buy a car....and I'd also like to support the local industry. But there is such a massive price difference at list price between here and the UK. I'm no expert on cars so how should I know that I'm supposed to haggle? i don't haggle when i'm buying a jacket from Arnotts.....

Another thing that gets me with local dealers is that for the various models I'm looking at.....they only sell the higher spec versions. And the sales rubbish that does with it....'nobody buys the lower spec, no demand for it, €1500 extra....leather trim'.....

I cannot see us getting any answers here. Salesmen will never tell. Best way to find out is to go to their local when there is a few of them chatting and wait till they get pissed.

My uncle bought a new car last july. It had a list of €27,200 and he paid €23,400 and he still got a few extras on that too.

EPM · 24-02-2010 01:22PM

Erren Music wrote: »

Not true anymore, our band a and band b cars are cheaper

Cars that fall into those bands are cheaper to tax in UK...

R.O.R · 24-02-2010 01:27PM

Erren Music wrote: »

Not true anymore, our band a and band b cars are cheaper.

So £35 is now more than €104 for a group B car? Good research there - did you spend as long on that as you did researching how much cheaper BMW's Volvo's are in the UK? (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/HowToTaxYourVehicle/DG_10012524)

Erren Music wrote: »

Ireland and N Ireland. I can drive for 1 hour and get the car 4,000 euro cheaper and still pay all the taxes.

And? Still different countries - probably the same the world over.

Erren Music wrote: »

This is another stupid statement by someone who has no answer to the questions I asked.

Why bother replying?

Jog on will ya?

Erren Music · 24-02-2010 01:27PM

EPM wrote: »

Cars that fall into those bands are cheaper to tax in UK...

Band

CO2 emission (g/km)

12 months rate

6 months rate

A
Up to 100
Not applicable
Not applicable
B
101-110
£35.00
Not applicable
C
111-120
£35.00
Not applicable
D
121-130
£120.00

E
131-140
£120.00
£

Sorry I meant cheaper than it used to be here. Our band B is very close to UK price now.

EPM · 24-02-2010 01:43PM

Erren Music wrote: »

Sorry I meant cheaper than it used to be here. Our band B is very close to UK price now.

Cheaper than it used to be? WTF does that matter:rolleyes:

Bill2673 · 24-02-2010 02:31PM

Erren Music wrote: »

I cannot see us getting any answers here. Salesmen will never tell. Best way to find out is to go to their local when there is a few of them chatting and wait till they get pissed.

My uncle bought a new car last july. It had a list of €27,200 and he paid €23,400 and he still got a few extras on that too.

Thanks for the answer, that is instructive and specific, as opposed to vague and unclear.

Am looking to pay btn €15k and €20k for a car. I've an old car to trade in for scrappage only. My choice is do I buy a new car here, or buy a 1 year old car in the UK (to avail of new, lower Irish tax rates), and forego the scrappage opportunity.

Am willing to pay min €2500 in depreciation for the 1-year old car. In other words, if the new car here is €17.5k, best price including scrappage, then I think its worthwhile going to the UK to buy a 1-year old car for up to €15,000, incl VRT. At the moment, this is easily achievable.

However, the big unknown is, how much can I bargain the local guy down by. What is the 'best price' or real price in Ireland. Personally, I'd prefer if that wasn't a big unknown, rather than the smoke and mirrors approach the dealers use.

-Chris- · 24-02-2010 03:30PM

Erren Music wrote: »

I have already booked a V50 for a 48 hour test for next weekend.

...

Volvo UK giving €5,000 off in the UK and only €2,500 here.
Volvo doing 3 years servicing for £100stg in UK and not in Ireland.
3 year warranty in UK and only 2 here.
A brand new Volvo V50 1.6s for €21,000 in UK and €25,000 here.

I think it's completely unfair for you to arrange and take this test drive when it's patently obvious you have no intention of buying the car in Ireland.

I'm not saying that you don't have financial reason to purchase in the UK, but once you've made that decision it's disrespectful of you to do your test-drive with an Irish dealer, wasting their time and their resources.

Bill2673 wrote: »

Saab Ed, for an innocent like myself could you expand on this? How much should I expect to get off a car that is retailing at €30k list price, if I pay cash up front? To the nearest €200 say.

Like the original poster, I'm also looking to buy a car....and I'd also like to support the local industry. But there is such a massive price difference at list price between here and the UK. I'm no expert on cars so how should I know that I'm supposed to haggle? i don't haggle when i'm buying a jacket from Arnotts.....

Another thing that gets me with local dealers is that for the various models I'm looking at.....they only sell the higher spec versions. And the sales rubbish that does with it....'nobody buys the lower spec, no demand for it, €1500 extra....leather trim'.....

Where leather trim etc. can be gotten for such a reasonable price, most customers will order it. Therefore when you're ordering for stock you would spec that into your orders.
You order what's easy to sell - conservative colours, most popular engine/bodystyle, best value spec.
If you don't like what they have, you can order a car from the factory in your specific spec.

With regards to the discount you require off the €30k car, can you specificy what exact model you're looking at? There are differing discount/incentive levels depending on how well the car is selling and the overall margin structure.

With regard to haggling - work out what car you want, go to three dealers and ask for their best pricing. Don't be afraid to take your time and ask a couple of times.
Decide which of the three garages/salespeople you'd prefer to buy from and go back to them offering them the option to beat the best price you've received so far.
Don't ask them to match the UK price, they won't be able to do it.

If it's cheaper to buy from the UK and you're happy to do the legwork, feel free to do that too.

-Chris- · 24-02-2010 03:35PM

Bill2673 wrote: »

Erren Music wrote: »

I cannot see us getting any answers here. Salesmen will never tell. Best way to find out is to go to their local when there is a few of them chatting and wait till they get pissed.

My uncle bought a new car last july. It had a list of €27,200 and he paid €23,400 and he still got a few extras on that too.

Thanks for the answer, that is instructive and specific, as opposed to vague and unclear.

Unfortunately, that information is vague and unhelpful to you Bill.

If Erren Music's uncle got €3,800 off a €27,200 car it could be an excellent or an average deal depending on the specifics of the deal.
Some brands give massive amounts of discount, whereas with others you're lucky to get €1k or 2k off.
If the uncle bought a new MINI and got that discount and spec thrown in, he did very well.
If the uncle bought a petrol car in banana yellow that had been sitting in the dealer's showroom for the last 18 months, I'd suggest there was a better deal to be done.

You'll need more information to assess the value of the figures above.

Bill2673 · 24-02-2010 03:41PM

Hi Chris,

Directly in response to your issue on a €30k car...

My point is that posters such as SAAB ED are implying that generally speaking large discounts are available on list price. Therefore this would be irrespective of which model it is. Specifically, the point was made that comparing the list price in Ireland with the list price in the UK wasn't comparing like with like, since the list price in Ireland can be bargained down whereas the list price in the UK can't be. So my question is therefore, how much one should expect the list price in Ireland to be bargained down by, on average? What is the real price?

With regard to higher Spec, specifically a car I have looked at is the Kia Cee'd estate. There are two versions, with roughly €1500 price difference, for leather seats etc. Every dealer I phone here tells me what you have said, that people prefer the higher spec and there is very little demand for the lower spec. However when I look at the UK car websites, I see similar amount of higher spec and lower spec models, which would suggest to me that this is not true. interestingly, also, there is no price difference in the second hand market btn higher and lower spec versions, defo another reason to go for the cheaper model.

Your points on approaching three different dealers is well made, thats what i imagine I will do. Unfortunately Kia few and far between and so far I have only phoned, really bargaining wouldn't be done over the phone.

Bill2673 · 24-02-2010 03:48PM

-Chris- wrote: »

Unfortunately, that information is vague and unhelpful to you Bill.

If Erren Music's uncle got €3,800 off a €27,200 car it could be an excellent or an average deal depending on the specifics of the deal.
Some brands give massive amounts of discount, whereas with others you're lucky to get €1k or 2k off.
If the uncle bought a new MINI and got that discount and spec thrown in, he did very well.
If the uncle bought a petrol car in banana yellow that had been sitting in the dealer's showroom for the last 18 months, I'd suggest there was a better deal to be done.

You'll need more information to assess the value of the figures above.

What I was looking for in answer was a figure of some sort, rather than an answer that said it depends on this, it depends on that. It was specific, to his uncle. It was instructive, as to the type of discount this individual achieved from the list price.

Padraig Mor · 24-02-2010 03:51PM

Bill2673 wrote: »

Thanks for the answer, that is instructive and specific, as opposed to vague and unclear.

Am looking to pay btn €15k and €20k for a car. I've an old car to trade in for scrappage only. My choice is do I buy a new car here, or buy a 1 year old car in the UK (to avail of new, lower Irish tax rates), and forego the scrappage opportunity.

Am willing to pay min €2500 in depreciation for the 1-year old car. In other words, if the new car here is €17.5k, best price including scrappage, then I think its worthwhile going to the UK to buy a 1-year old car for up to €15,000, incl VRT. At the moment, this is easily achievable.

However, the big unknown is, how much can I bargain the local guy down by. What is the 'best price' or real price in Ireland. Personally, I'd prefer if that wasn't a big unknown, rather than the smoke and mirrors approach the dealers use.

I believe* that you can buy a new band A or B car in the UK and claim the Irish scrappage if you scrap your old car.

*could be wrong though....

Bill2673 · 24-02-2010 03:54PM

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I believe* that you can buy a new band A or B car in the UK and claim the Irish scrappage if you scrap your old car.

*could be wrong though....

I'd be very, very surprised.

R.O.R · 24-02-2010 03:55PM

Bill2673 wrote: »

What I was looking for in answer was a figure of some sort, rather than an answer that said it depends on this, it depends on that. It was specific, to his uncle. It was instructive, as to the type of discount this individual achieved from the list price.

It was useless information without relating it to a specific car.

As you've now told us what you are looking at we can help.

Kia dealers don't have a massive margin to play with. 7.5% discount off the retail price would be a good deal on a C'eed SW.

You can probably order an LX model, but it could take a while. If the EX is the one that has been selling, then they'll have those in stock and it could only take a couple of weeks.

Bill2673 · 24-02-2010 04:00PM

R.O.R wrote: »

It was useless information without relating it to a specific car.

As you've now told us what you are looking at we can help.

Kia dealers don't have a massive margin to play with. 7.5% discount off the retail price would be a good deal on a C'eed SW.

You can probably order an LX model, but it could take a while. If the EX is the one that has been selling, then they'll have those in stock and it could only take a couple of weeks.

R.O.R. Thanks for response. If it was useless information to give without relating to a specific car, then it was equally, or more unhelpful for earlier posts to suggest that in general large discounts are available from list price for Irish cars. If the above applies to Kia then it applies to a lot of other marques too.

Having said that, thanks for the 7.5% figure, thats useful.

-Chris- · 24-02-2010 04:10PM

Bill2673 wrote: »

Hi Chris,

Directly in response to your issue on a €30k car...

My point is that posters such as SAAB ED are implying that generally speaking large discounts are available on list price. Therefore this would be irrespective of which model it is. Specifically, the point was made that comparing the list price in Ireland with the list price in the UK wasn't comparing like with like, since the list price in Ireland can be bargained down whereas the list price in the UK can't be. So my question is therefore, how much one should expect the list price in Ireland to be bargained down by, on average? What is the real price?

I understand, but the point remains that large discounts aren't available on everything.

BMW have dropped their retail pricing massively and therefore don't have the margins for big discounts.
Renault have a program of incentives on cars that equate to either large discounts, big scrappage allowances or very appealing trade-in values (depending on how you stack the figures).

If you're looking for a BMW 5-Series, you'll get more discount off a petrol than a diesel, as the demand is greater for a diesel.

I think SAAB ED's general point is that far better value for the customer is available now than was available 6-12 months ago, but a manufacturer can knock €5k off the RRP, or can offer €5k extra discount, you won't get both.

Bill2673 wrote: »

With regard to higher Spec, specifically a car I have looked at is the Kia Cee'd estate. There are two versions, with roughly €1500 price difference, for leather seats etc. Every dealer I phone here tells me what you have said, that people prefer the higher spec and there is very little demand for the lower spec. However when I look at the UK car websites, I see similar amount of higher spec and lower spec models, which would suggest to me that this is not true. interestingly, also, there is no price difference in the second hand market btn higher and lower spec versions, defo another reason to go for the cheaper model.

They're two different markets, and have different requirements.

If you were looking for a second hand Audi A3 2.0TDI, you'd be tripping over them in the UK, but you'd find it nearly impossible to find here.
If you want a second hand Avensis 1.6, you'll find loads here and none in the UK.

If every Kia dealer you've spoken to says they can only get a high-spec car, then that's all they have. If there was a low-spec car in free stock or with another dealer I'm sure they'd be making the call to get their hands on it so as to get the sale.

Bill2673 wrote: »

Your points on approaching three different dealers is well made, thats what i imagine I will do. Unfortunately Kia few and far between and so far I have only phoned, really bargaining wouldn't be done over the phone.

Don't bother with the phone, you'll only get "real" pricing in the showroom. For better or for worse (and it's too deep an arguement to get into here without completely derailing the thread), salespeople are trained not to negotiate or give best pricing over the phone.

R.O.R · 24-02-2010 04:31PM

Bill2673 wrote: »

If the above applies to Kia then it applies to a lot of other marques too.

No - it doesn't. Some manufacturer's have more discount than that available to dealers, some have less.

Within some manufacturers, it varies depending on model. Some it might even vary depending on specification.

There is no set rule of thumb due to the amount of variants. It would be easier if all cars had 10% discount available, and that's that - but where is the fun in that.

They've been haggling in the middle east for thousands of years, we've just got to learn how to do it now.

Bill2673 · 24-02-2010 04:39PM

R.O.R wrote: »

No - it doesn't. Some manufacturer's have more discount than that available to dealers, some have less.

Within some manufacturers, it varies depending on model. Some it might even vary depending on specification.

There is no set rule of thumb due to the amount of variants. It would be easier if all cars had 10% discount available, and that's that - but where is the fun in that.

They've been haggling in the middle east for thousands of years, we've just got to learn how to do it now.

Your general point is that if there is a discount in the price already, then there is less scope for haggling. I agree with that.

I don't agree with your point on the Middle East, haggling etc. It's structured to take advantage of the trusting/naive/timid purchaser. I don't agree with that. I'd rather know what the price is, rather than trying to second guess what price I might be able to get.

Volvo V50 sick of Uk Eire price differences

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