Dan Boyle has no confidence in Willie O'Dea

Macha · 18-02-2010 12:47PM

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

If there's a bright side to this, it's that discontent about this goes right up to the Green TD's and Senators and this was made public. Maybe FF will be a little slower asking to be bailed out the next time they need it.

TBH I'm not sure how much of this I can take.

Maybe the Greens should just pull out now

But when will the Greens ever be in a majority in Government? Never. This will play itself out every time the Greens get into government in a coalition.

IrishTonyO · 18-02-2010 12:49PM

taconnol wrote: »

TBH I'm not sure how much of this I can take.

Maybe the Greens should just pull out now

But when will the Greens ever be in a majority in Government? Never. This will play itself out every time the Greens get into government in a coalition.

To restore any credibility the Greens have they should pull out. Then they might be able to salvage the party

meditraitor · 18-02-2010 12:51PM

Who is Dan Boyle anyway, I put more truck in the opinion of the posters around here than some bootlicking green senator.

All the greens have no confidence in O'Dea but they would be on a fast track to the dole office if they went against FF now and as we all have found out the Greens are cowards....

Macha · 18-02-2010 12:52PM

IrishTonyO wrote: »

To restore any credibility the Greens have they should pull out. Then they might be able to salvage the party

Well this may be the final straw.

I can't say I'm happy about supporting O'Dea - he is a nasty piece of work.

KerranJast · 18-02-2010 12:53PM

taconnol wrote: »

TBH I'm not sure how much of this I can take.

Maybe the Greens should just pull out now

But when will the Greens ever be in a majority in Government? Never. This will play itself out every time the Greens get into government in a coalition.

Right now there's very short odds on there being no Green TDs for a loooong time. Also the main political parties have stolen their clothes so I expect them to be wiped out and eventually having to go back to being a protest party.

Macha · 18-02-2010 12:54PM

KerranJast wrote: »

Also the main political parties have stolen their clothes so I expect them to be wiped out and eventually having to go back to being a protest party.

As has been discussed recently in another thread, the environmental and sustainability policies of the other main parties leaves a lot to be desired.

Anyone who works in the environmental sector will tell you that much.

skelliser · 18-02-2010 12:58PM

taconnol wrote: »

Anyone who works in the environmental sector will tell you that much.

Anyone who is lining up this morning at the local dole office will tell you they couldnt give a toss about the enviroment.

Macha · 18-02-2010 01:00PM

skelliser wrote: »

Anyone who is lining up this morning at the local dole office will tell you they couldnt give a toss about the enviroment.

Perhaps they might care if they understood that this country imports €6 billion worth of petrol every year. Perhaps they might care if they understood that the Green Economy is the best chance this country has to open up a major new export industry.

Perhaps they might care if they didn't make the usual mistake of assuming that the economy and the environment is a zero-sum game.

thebaldsoprano · 18-02-2010 01:01PM

taconnol wrote: »

But when will the Greens ever be in a majority in Government?

This seems to hanging like a guillotine over the Green party alright, but I don't see why. It's probably a safe enough bet that they won't do very well in the next election, but after that who knows? Environmental exploitation isn't going away any time soon and there's lots of potential for the Party to regroup and get into a future government with a lot more clout than they have now.

Jip · 18-02-2010 01:03PM

Seems to be all going wild in the Dail again today over it, all business has been suspended.

IrishTonyO · 18-02-2010 01:03PM

they are back again

Arfan · 18-02-2010 01:04PM

I think this needs a legal inquiry. Perjury is a serious offense and should be treated as such. If O'Dea has committed perjury then he should be removed from office immediately.

I will not remind people of what brought down Clinton.

Jip · 18-02-2010 01:07PM

O'Dea should be so lucky to have relations with a bit of stange !

skelliser · 18-02-2010 01:07PM

taconnol wrote: »

Perhaps they might care if they understood that this country imports €6 billion worth of petrol every year. Perhaps they might care if they understood that the Green Economy is the best chance this country has to open up a major new export industry.

Perhaps they might care if they didn't make the usual mistake of assuming that the economy and the environment is a zero-sum game.

perhaps, perhaps...

perhaps they are more concerned with paying the mortgage, feeding there children, you know the little things or have they gone out the window along with your parties so called high standards/morals.

Macha · 18-02-2010 01:10PM

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

This seems to hanging like a guillotine over the Green party alright, but I don't see why. It's probably a safe enough bet that they won't do very well in the next election, but after that who knows? Environmental exploitation isn't going away any time soon and there's lots of potential for the Party to regroup and get into a future government with a lot more clout than they have now.

Yes, maybe you're right. Now that Green support is so low, we will have to rely on the other political parties dramatically improving the sustainability of their policies or just rely on the EU to make us see environmental sense.

BennyLava · 18-02-2010 01:13PM

Do you not fee that the Green party is been remarkably short sighted,

by clinging to power with FF now, and maybe getting a few relatively minor green policies enacted, ( light bulbs + carbon tax) in the short term, you are distroying yourselves as a political force in this country and your ability to get anything done in the future, or at least the next 10-15 years

I understand that Gormley and Co are scared of facing the electorate, but if it's going to survive the Greens have to be more that the current faces in the Dail. You as a party claim to be about protecting the environment, all that you are doing at the moment is protecting Gormley and Co. ( granted his ego does appear to be as big as the environment)

What you are currently doing is ensuring that you are going to have no influence in the future shaping of environmental policies for Ireland

for the sake of a few in the Dail you are abandoning your core principles

well done

Jip · 18-02-2010 01:18PM

The Green Party will be thought of in so much a higher regard if they pull the plug now rather than try sit out the full term. If they hang on they'll be seen by the public as hypocrites with regards to them being there as a moral watchdog. If they bring the government down they'll be seen as standing by their morals, even if it has taken some time, and at least come out of this sorry mess not entirely smelling of the bad stuff.

super_furry · 18-02-2010 01:21PM

Yep. I think the only way the Green Party can salvage their future as a meaningful political entity is to jump before they're pushed.

IrishTonyO · 18-02-2010 01:21PM

Jip wrote: »

The Green Party will be thought of in so much a higher regard if they pull the plug now rather than try sit out the full term. If they hang on they'll be seen by the public as hypocrites with regards to them being there as a moral watchdog. If they bring the government down they'll be seen as standing by their morals, even if it has taken some time, and at least come out of this sorry mess not entirely smelling of the bad stuff.

Agree completely, they will regain some of my respect by doing this. As others have said hanging on for some minor policies at the cost of the whole Green Party for the foreseeable future, has to be far too high a price to pay.

BennyLava · 18-02-2010 01:22PM

I may be wrong, but if the green party implodes like I think it's going to

don't be surprised if you see John Gormley joining the ranks of FF in the future, he does appear to be acting as a loyal party member in all but name

baalthor · 18-02-2010 01:23PM

bijapos wrote: »

Good article here in the times from a former Green Councillor.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0218/1224264713504.html

He was on Pat Kenny's show this morning putting the boot in to O'Dea while wearing his "legal hat". However wearing his "Green party hat" he was willing to support O'Dea. Just like O'Dea has a "personal hat" and a "Minister hat".

Are these "hats" a new political paradigm?
Are they like the six hats of Edward De Bono?

Or the many heads of Worzel Gummidge?

Worzel: "Ooh Aunty Gormley, Willie O'Dea is a bad man and should be fired"

Gormley: "Worzel, we need to stay in power to carry out our great work (and keep our jobs)"

Worzel: "OK, then Worzel needs to take off his "Ethics in Politics" head and put on his "Craven Politician who will do anything to stay in power" head

Gormley "I'll put your Ethics head in the head recycling bin along with your Credibility head - you won't really need them again and they weren't staying on very well lately anyway"

Worzel "Well, so long as they don't get incinerated ..."

Macha · 18-02-2010 01:37PM

BennyLava wrote: »

by clinging to power with FF now, and maybe getting a few relatively minor green policies enacted, ( light bulbs + carbon tax) in the short term, you are distroying yourselves as a political force in this country and your ability to get anything done in the future, or at least the next 10-15 years

This is where I disagree. The Green Party have achieved a lot more than "a few relatively minor green policies".

BennyLava wrote: »

I understand that Gormley and Co are scared of facing the electorate, but if it's going to survive the Greens have to be more that the current faces in the Dail. You as a party claim to be about protecting the environment, all that you are doing at the moment is protecting Gormley and Co. ( granted his ego does appear to be as big as the environment)

Again, this is where I disagree. And the Greens aren't afraid of facing the electorate - we know full well we'll be out at the next general election.

BennyLava wrote: »

What you are currently doing is ensuring that you are going to have no influence in the future shaping of environmental policies for Ireland

What having the Greens in power has done is push environmental policies to the front of the agenda. If necessary, I will demonstrate the poor track record of Labour and FG in implementing environmental policies.

BennyLava wrote: »

for the sake of a few in the Dail you are abandoning your core principles

I'll say it again: people mistake wanting to achieve good environmental (and other) policies for this government with wanting power.

As I have already said, I am not happy with Green support for O'Dea.

BennyLava · 18-02-2010 01:48PM

Fair enough you disagree with me, but do you not see what you are doing is short sighted, for the sake of clinging to power now you are destroying your long term chances of real change and influence in environmental policies

from reading through your posts you sound like you have bought into your own parties PR spin

You as a party are destroying yourselves for short term gain. If you want to be a force for ethical, environmental politics, your have to extract yourselves from where you are now.

Granted next election you can expect to be decimated but you will recover a lot quicker if you pull out, than if you stick with FF

jank · 18-02-2010 01:55PM

taconnol wrote: »

Again, this is where I disagree. And the Greens aren't afraid of facing the electorate - we know full well we'll be out at the next general election.

Out? There is a difference to being out and being consigned to the history books because let me tell you sir, there is a growing young angry population that will never vote green in their lives. I would be surprised if there is a green TD after the next 3 elections. Environmental polices can be easily borrowed. A one trick pony who has sold its soul to save face and themselves.

Ahh poor greens always getting blamed. LOL You do realise that the greens are only puppets of the FF masters? They will throw you to the dogs just like they did Labour and the PD's...

I would be your typical green supporter in 2007, a number 2 or 3 pick. I will never vote for them again in their current format. I will look forward to the day where the green party will cease to exist because they are drunk by power.

They will sell their souls for a snail or a hare while the country is being ridden by FF.

baalthor · 18-02-2010 02:05PM

taconnol wrote: »

This is where I disagree. The Green Party have achieved a lot more than "a few relatively minor green policies".

I would say that the core Green policy that distinguishes them from the other parties is the reform of the country's planning laws.

Even if you keep FF in power to get policies like the above implemented it will be very easy for a new FG administration to have them over-turned or watered down.
The remnant of the Green Party won't have any credibility or authority to oppose any such changes.

The current Greens are like a group of kamikaze pilots, hoping to carry out their objectives to the fullest extent while destroying themselves at the same time.

Successful kamikaze pilots didn't play a very big role in the re-shaping of Japanese society after the end of WW2:D

A political party must have core principles that it will hold to regardless of whether its policies are being implemented. If it abandons these principles then the party AND its policies will be discredited.

Jip · 18-02-2010 02:05PM

On a slightly different issue, the government apparently needed the ceann comhairles vote to get through the revised estimates bill. On the first vote they one were ahead by 1 I think so a second was called which was 63 apiece needing the casting vote.

The O'Dea interview is about to be played now on Newstalk.

IrishTonyO · 18-02-2010 02:08PM

Well have just heard the O'Dea interview, and it speaks for itself. How could you forget saying that???

mike65 · 18-02-2010 02:08PM

RTEs lunchtime news has the audio of O'Dea to the jouno and will be answering questions.

Here is a good quality audio from the Limerick Leader.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/video.aspx?VideoPath=LIME/WillieODeaTape.mp3&VideoID=0&ArticleID=6084787

Raiser · 18-02-2010 02:10PM

We are the educators of our Children.

- We will not fail in our duty; The Green Party's name will be dirt for generations to come......

Jip · 18-02-2010 02:12PM

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Well have just heard the O'Dea interview, and it speaks for itself. How could you forget saying that???

Yeah, it's not like something he barely mentioned, he obviously initially thought about what he was about to say when he said something about going too far and he then expanded on his point and explained all the little nasty details, all false of course.

Edit: The fool is on News at 1 now, he's saying you say something in the heat of the moment and don't think about it, and then claims it was just some info he was passing on that he was giving from elsewhere, presumably the gardai.

Dan Boyle has no confidence in Willie O'Dea

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