Another shooting in America thread.

Jesus Juice · 13-02-2010 03:16PM

Jesus chirst how fcuked up is American society?

I mean its like ''I've got a problem, thats it I'm gonna shoot everyone and myself that'll learn em''

Overheal · 13-02-2010 03:17PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

It's still pretty fúcking retarded though.

Not as retarded as Irish logic: "I have no gun. That scumbag has a gun. That Other Scumbag has a gun. Therefore, they will only kill eachother, and not me."

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

because it means there's less of them

Im sure you thought you were very clever writing that. You're not.

The sheer level of Pat ignorance in this thread is astounding.

InKonspikuou2 · 13-02-2010 03:26PM

A gun is solely a weapon. Any other potential weapons have other primary functions. You go to the shooting range to improve accuracy. If you use a gun as self defense chances are you are prepared to fire it. And you don't hunt with hanguns and automatic rifles and machine guns. Other than other hunting rifles most guns are used to injure, maim and kill whether it be offensive or defensive actions. All aspects of using these non hunting guns are associated with the potential intent of using it on another human being.

I'm not flat out against guns as i own a gun and there have always been guns in my house when i lived in the US. But i believe that guns give some people power that they otherwise would not have. It's a lot easier to squeeze a trigger than it is to plunge a knife into someone or beat someone over the head with a baseball bat. I have had friends that were gun nuts and at times i felt uneasy around them when they would get their parents gun. Holding it changed them a bit.

It's gone too far where a ban on guns other than hunting rifles would work as there are too many of them out there. But if it had of been a lot of years ago it may have worked. The only guns i have problems with are the concealed ones. Would be a lot harder to shoot up a school, invade a home or rob a store when you gotta carry a gun almost the length of your body.

ColmDawson · 13-02-2010 03:27PM

Wikipedia wrote:

Some areas in the US are experimenting with the idea of armed classrooms to deter (or truncate) future attacks, presumably by changing helpless victims into armed defenders. Students at the University of Utah have been allowed to carry concealed pistols (so long as they possess the appropriate state license) since a State Supreme Court decision in 2006.[50][51] In 2008, Harrold Independent School District in Texas became the first public school district in the U.S. to allow teachers with state-issued firearm-carry permits to carry their arms in the classroom; special additional training and ricochet-resistant ammunition were required for participating teachers.[52]

...

*shakes head*

dollybird09 · 13-02-2010 03:28PM

I find this chilling, how long will it be until this happens in an Irish university or school....

Obviously Irish kids don't have the same access to guns as their US peers, but I think it's only a matter of time...

InKonspikuou2 · 13-02-2010 03:30PM

Overheal wrote: »

Not as retarded as Irish logic: "I have no gun. That scumbag has a gun. That Other Scumbag has a gun. Therefore, they will only kill eachother, and not me."

Retarded or not Ireland must have one of the lowest firearm homicide rates in which innocents are injured or killed in the world per capita.

brummytom · 13-02-2010 03:33PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

1) By law, the police are not responsible for the defence and protection of you, the individual citizen. Only you are. However, I, the individual, am not responsible for the standards of adherence to the law by others. Guess where my emphasis is going to be?
2) Even if they did have such a duty, practical realities dictate that when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Particularly in the country. (Even more particularly when you're camping and a large bear with sharp claws decides to take a dislike to you). In effect, their job is to draw a white line around your corpse, then find out who dun it. Fine for society, not quite so fine for you.
3) A firearm is far and away the most effective tool for your protection, particularly if you're disabled or old. Nothing else comes close.
4) Practical realities dictate that even if firearms were declared illegal tomorrow, they would not be removed from the streets. Ban firearms, and only criminals will have firearms. They already have enough of an advantage, why give them more of one? Case in point: I'll lay money that the shooter was prohibited by law or policy from being armed on the university campus. Very few universities and States allow it (Utah and a couple in Virginia being some of the few). Indeed, most of these mass shooting incidents tend to take place where the victims are known to be unarmed unless they're breaking the laws and policies themselves. (Virginia Tech, Trolley Square Mall, Fort Bliss etc). Instances such as University of the Appalachians, or the New Life Church of Colorado Springs are stopped by the legal, unexpected presence of a firearm. After all, most people wouldn't expect a church congregation to be armed. Easy pickings, no?
5) Statistics have shown that persons licensed to carry a concealed firearm are more law-abidng than police.

Any questions?

NTM

Nope, that's very interesting. Thanks

It wasn't me! · 13-02-2010 03:45PM

dollybird09 wrote: »

I find this chilling, how long will it be until this happens in an Irish university or school....

Obviously Irish kids don't have the same access to guns as their US peers, but I think it's only a matter of time...

Any particular reason? There's absolutely no logical route to that conclusion apart from some sort of "infinite monkeys with typewriters" suggestion.

Overheal · 13-02-2010 03:45PM

InKonspikuou2 wrote: »

Retarded or not Ireland must have one of the lowest firearm homicide rates in which innocents are injured or killed in the world per capita.

And how your Mugging rate been eh?

InKonspikuou2 · 13-02-2010 03:52PM

Overheal wrote: »

And how your Mugging rate been eh?

Well i'd rather be mugged than shot.

Overheal · 13-02-2010 03:54PM

InKonspikuou2 wrote: »

Well i'd rather be mugged than shot.

Or raped or stabbed. Its easy for a Scumbag on the streets of dublin isnt it? Flash a pistol and you're basically at his mercy.

Gards arent everywhere and you're left with no mace, no pepper spray, no gun, no knife, no anything to defend yourself with.

minidazzler · 13-02-2010 03:54PM

InKonspikuou2 wrote: »

Well i'd rather be mugged than shot.

And if you get stabbed while being mugged? or Hit with a dirty needle?

I'd rather have a concealed pistol than get mugged. But I'm not allowed!

ColmDawson · 13-02-2010 03:55PM

Overheal wrote: »

Or raped or stabbed. Its easy for a Scumbag on the streets of dublin isnt it? Flash a pistol and you're basically at his mercy.

I'm struggling to see what your point is.

I don't think "more guns" is ever the answer to a gun problem.

minidazzler · 13-02-2010 03:58PM

Colm Dawson wrote: »

I'm struggling to see what your point is.

I don't think "more guns" is ever the answer to a gun problem.

The thing you are struggling with is you think anyone with a gun is inherently evil.

But if citizens are armed and you don't know who is packing you are less likely to mug someone!

I can't remember the last time I heard of a legally obtained firearm being used in the commission of a crime in Ireland.

My name is URL · 13-02-2010 03:58PM

What are the figures for muggings etc in the US per capita per year as opposed to Ireland?

Lax gun laws don't mean less crime, it's stupid to say they do. 1 in 100 people in the US are in prison ffs

If having a gun makes you feel safe that's fine, but don't try to say it means that less crime takes place

Overheal · 13-02-2010 04:00PM

Colm Dawson wrote: »

I'm struggling to see what your point is.

I don't think "more guns" is ever the answer to a gun problem.

To be perfectly fair yes it is.

Ive been struggling in the last half hour to recall which university where a Homocidal man with a gun was preparing to go on a rampage when blam - shot dead by a student, who was holding a licensed firearm and a concealed weapons permit.

I mean if you go back in time to Columbine, wouldnt it have been better that instead of being a teacher huddling in a supply closet waiting to die with your students you were crouched in a closet with a loaded gun ready to fire on one of the bastards when they tried to find you?

You can argue that others with guns will not deter someone who is crazy and homocidal enough for attempting to kill everyone in sight, but you have to admit that it would be pretty hard to get a killing spree going if youre stopped dead after 30 seconds.

MaybeLogic · 13-02-2010 04:01PM

What makes me laugh is that America enforces a policy against other nations of not having certain weapons because they might use them and kill people but never consider applying the same logic on their own populace.

Overheal · 13-02-2010 04:02PM

MaybeLogic wrote: »

What makes me laugh is that America enforces a policy against other nations of not having certain weapons because they might use them and kill people but never consider using the same logic on their own populace.

When im allowed to store explosives ill give you a call.

Odysseus · 13-02-2010 04:03PM

Colm Dawson wrote: »

I don't think "more guns" is ever the answer to a gun problem.

I think your correct, however, reducing access to sporting firearms is not the answer to gun crime. When something like this happens there seems to be a strong view that not allowing people to own sporting firearms will stop gun criome.

Our own government used this logic recently in banning people from owning certain handguns from sporting reasons, i.e. target shooting. This will do nothing in reducing gun crime in Ireland. Nobody is issued a licence in Ireland for self-defence purposes, so carrying a concealed firarm is not an issue over here.

MaybeLogic · 13-02-2010 04:04PM

Overheal wrote: »

When im allowed to store explosives ill give you a call.

Explosives don't kill people. Detonators do.

Mayoegian · 13-02-2010 04:08PM

MaybeLogic wrote: »

Explosives don't kill people. Detonators do.

No, explosives do kill people, detonators just cause the explosion.

How can a detonator kill someone? Unless it was very big and ya gave one heck of a throw at someone's head.

hitlersson666 · 13-02-2010 04:09PM

this is not funny

ColmDawson · 13-02-2010 04:18PM

minidazzler wrote: »

The thing you are struggling with is you think anyone with a gun is inherently evil.

Excuse me. This was not implied in anything I said.
I'm perfectly happy to discuss this issue, but not with people who put words in my mouth.

minidazzler · 13-02-2010 04:20PM

MaighEoGoDeo wrote: »

No, explosives do kill people, detonators just cause the explosion.

How can a detonator kill someone? Unless it was very big and ya gave one heck of a throw at someone's head.

In fairness, the shrapnel is usually what hurts or kills you. An explosion might burn you really badly and you can survive. But a lump of metal flying at your head will kill ya!

TheZohanS · 13-02-2010 04:20PM

Right I've read through this thread and those of you saying "Yay" and having a laugh that people have been shot should be bloody ashamed of yourselves. Grow the fùck up.

From here on in if there's any more of that shìt expect to be banned/infracted.

bobblepuzzle · 13-02-2010 04:21PM

MaybeLogic wrote: »

What makes me laugh is that America enforces a policy against other nations of not having certain weapons because they might use them and kill people but never consider applying the same logic on their own populace.

Why does this make you laugh?

They are trying to make sure rougue states don't get nuclear, chemical and conventional weapons with which to be aggressors. They also happily sell arms to other responsible nations with no problem.

MagicMarker · 13-02-2010 04:25PM

For the record, the thread title was ''Yay, Another shooting in America thread'' NOT, ''Yay, Another Shooting in America''.

There's a big difference ffs.

MaybeLogic · 13-02-2010 04:27PM

Tar.Aldarionftw wrote: »

They are trying to make sure rougue states don't get nuclear, chemical and conventional weapons with which to be aggressors. They also happily sell arms to other responsible nations with no problem.

Yes, I know. America is so caring.
I was just saying it's a little ironic how they're not so caring about the populace, allowing rogue individuals to purchase weapons.

bobblepuzzle · 13-02-2010 04:27PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

For the record, the thread title was ''Yay, Another shooting in America thread'' NOT, ''Yay, Another Shooting in America''.

There's a big difference ffs.

Mate to be fair... "Yay" shouldn't be mentioned in the title when it's about a tragic event :eek:

sesna · 13-02-2010 04:28PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

1) By law, the police are not responsible for the defence and protection of you, the individual citizen. Only you are.

2. A firearm is far and away the most effective tool for your protection, particularly if you're disabled or old. Nothing else comes close.

3. I'll lay money that the shooter was prohibited by law or policy from being armed on the university campus. Very few universities and States allow it (Utah and a couple in Virginia being some of the few)

4. Statistics have shown that persons licensed to carry a concealed firearm are more law-abidng than police.

NTM

1. It is of course a function of the law to protect every individual in society. The police enforce this law and are responsible for your protection.

2. The most effective tool for your protection is a safe society with sound gun-control policies which does not have mass shooting rampages in the media every other week.

3. No point having token laws banning firearm possession in certain circumstances when the real problem is how readily available they are. I dont think someone about to go on a killing rampage is worried they might infringe upon a law about carrying a firearm on campus.

4. Could you please reference the link to these statistics. Also how about the majority of non-concealment licences.

Another shooting in America thread.

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