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why is ireland one month out on the seasons?

  • 07-02-2010 10:52am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,676 ✭✭✭✭


    probably been asked before but as my wife is German get in the neck when we move to a new season. So why is Feb Spring, Aug Autumn etc.?

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,389 ✭✭✭✭Saruman


    It is a pagan thing. We have a different calendar.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,310 ✭✭✭Trogdor


    Yup i think that was the pagan calender or something, meteorologically though here february is not spring it is still winter:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Joe Public




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,389 ✭✭✭✭Saruman


    In the other thread the last poster (currently) said:
    vinylbomb wrote: »
    Ireland only has 2 seasons - Light Winter and Dark Winter

    This is not true, we do not even have a proper winter compared to the Northern half of the US. (A few weeks this January aside)
    We have no real seasons, it is just slightly warmer in the spring/summer months than it is in the Autumn/Winter months.

    Ireland has one season, cloudy, rainy with the odd stretch of sunshine every now and again*

    *This can happen at any time during the year. If we get some sun in the winter then the Summer has no work to do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 453 ✭✭gonnaplayrugby


    how about our epic long days during the summer months where no matter how **** the weather has been during the day it seems to get nice after 5pm


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭BigCon


    how about our epic long days during the summer months where no matter how **** the weather has been during the day it seems to get nice after 5pm

    I know about the long days, but I haven't experienced the nice weather after 5pm? :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 453 ✭✭gonnaplayrugby


    im from southside dublin, it happens here


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 pesactivist


    Our seasons are organised around our particular four quarter days (each one beginning at sunset on the eve of the quarter day and ending with that day's sunset):

    31st October to 1st November ... Samhain (start of the New Year and Winter)
    31st January to 1st February .... Imbolc (start of Spring)
    30th April to 1st May .... Bealtinne (start of Summer)
    31st July to 1st August ... Lughnasa (Start of Autumn)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 345 ✭✭kindredspirit


    I regard the seasons this way,

    November, December, January and February as winter,

    March and April as Spring.

    May, June, July, August as Summer.

    September and October as Autumn.

    The idea that all the seasons should each be equal and three months long seems rather childish. Spring and Autumn are just transitions of two months each between the two main seasons.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭Pangea


    Saruman wrote: »
    Ireland has one season, cloudy, rainy with the odd stretch of sunshine every now and again*
    Thats a load of codswallop
    seasons are so bigger than weather .
    If there was one season then the leaves would never fall in autumn, there would be no snow in winter, no daffodils in spring.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,389 ✭✭✭✭Saruman


    Pangea wrote: »
    Thats a load of codswallop
    seasons are so bigger than weather .
    If there was one season then the leaves would never fall in autumn, there would be no snow in winter, no daffodils in spring.


    You thought I was serious in that statement? How did that happen? ;)

    Which spring do the Daffodils flower in Ireland? Irish spring or rest of the Western world spring?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭Pangea


    Saruman wrote: »
    You thought I was serious in that statement? How did that happen? ;)

    Which spring do the Daffodils flower in Ireland? Irish spring or rest of the Western world spring?
    I have no interest in responding to such stupid questions...................


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭snow ghost


    The traditional celtic seasons... does anyone else think our traditional seasons are more accurate for Ireland than the meterological ones?

    I notice our traditional summer season is usually more accurate, e.g. May and June are more summer like here than August.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 460 ✭✭boardswalker


    People often query the timing of the seasons but rarely question midsummer or midwinter. Midsummer is the summer solstice - the longest day - and midwinter being the winter solstice - the shortest day.

    Midwinter is December 21 and Midsummer is Jun 21. Winter then is 6.5 weeks (45 days) each side of midwinter and summer is 6.5 weeks (45 days) either side of midsummer. That would put summer around 7 May to 5 Aug roughly. Winter would be around 5 Nov to 4 February roughly.

    So approximating summer to May, June, July and winter to Nov Dec Jan would make sense with midwinter and midsummer falling roughly halfway in both periods. Spring and Autumn are then Feb, Mar, Apr for spring and Aug, Sep, Oct for autumn.

    Don't know if many will accept that, but that's how I think we decided on the months for each season.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭thetonynator


    Pangea wrote: »
    I have no interest in responding to such stupid questions...................


    The irony . . .i think you just did ;)

    Daffidols generally flower from the 1st march onwards . . .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    The seasons in Ireland can be both defined by:

    A - The amount of daylight we recieve

    B - The prevailing weather conditions

    In case A above, our pagan calendar of Nov, Dec and Jan can be called winter, however case B would cover Dec, Jan and Feb.


  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    fwiw, I've noticed that the trees have already started to bud.
    So I suppose you could define spring as starting when the plants start grow for the new season.

    In which case, spring starts in February, don't feel like it though!


  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭Chicken Run


    You can tell when it's summer in Ireland - the rain gets warmer !!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭who the fug


    You can tell when it's summer in Ireland - the rain gets warmer !!

    and starts falling vertically


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    neither are correct:

    Setting the astronomical seasons is physical and cannot be changed. However the meterocogical seasons vary with the weather worldwide.

    It is nonsense to segment the season equally throughout the years, birds and farmers certainly don't do that. In fact many weather forcasters base their predictions more on the animal behaviour than in the sciences.

    In Ireland especially we may have as little of two weeks of Spring after five months of winter and so on.


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  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    gbee wrote: »
    In Ireland especially we may have as little of two weeks of Spring after five months of winter and so on.

    Well, if last year was anything to go by, you could be right.

    Winter: Jan - early March.
    Spring: mid March - early May.
    Summer: mid may to late May. :rolleyes:
    Autumn: June - October,
    Winter November - December.

    Weather is interesting.....;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,179 ✭✭✭snow scorpion


    You can tell when it's summer in Ireland - the rain gets warmer !!

    That one made me laugh. :D

    Everybody agrees that early April is springtime in Ireland? Good. I have a half-marathon to run in Ballybunion.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,150 ✭✭✭Deep Easterly


    While I accept that spring does not begin till March, my belief is that the real spring feeling does not begin until May in Ireland. March & April can at times be equally as cold as Feb with little growth. They are horrible months. Bring on May.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    A point about the Daffodils. Daffs like cold weather and are generally portrayed as breaking through snow, and are heralded as the sign that Winter is ending and Spring can't be far away.

    Horticulturists on the boards may confirm that 'warm weather' dafs don't shine as brightly and wither and die sooner giving a short display, as opposed to the one that break ice and snow to bloom.

    Daffs should start to bloom still in Winter and the Spring should arrive as they fade ~ but they will bloom regardless, the weather will dictate how long and how bright.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1 Palio


    I live in Ireland, its hard to determine if February is a spring or winter month. This year snow and hail stones fell for the first 3 weeks of February , so I would not consider that type if weather to be spring. I know there are many opinions on this, for me February is a winter month.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    Spring starts on 20th of March for me


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,690 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    silverharp wrote: »
    probably been asked before but as my wife is German get in the neck when we move to a new season. So why is Feb Spring, Aug Autumn etc.?
    The real issue is why your German wife assumes that what is conventional in Germany must be good throughout the world. ;)

    Seasons may or may not be loosely related to weather, but they are related to climate and to (agri)culture, so they vary from place to place. Much of the world has only two seasons ("wet" and "dry") while others have more than 4 seasons. Where I live there are six seasons, which refer to the traditional food sources available at different times of the year. Even where there are four seasons, there is no reason why they should be the same four seasons, celebrated on the same dates, as in Germany.

    Boardwalker correctly identifies the basis for the Irish seasons. Summer is the quarter that revolves around midsummer (there's a bit of a clue in the name), winter the quarter that revolves around midwinter, and spring and autumn revolve - you can see where I'm going with this - around the spring and autumn solstices. The Celts had festivals at midsummer, midwinter and the two solstices, and four more slightly smaller festivals at the mid-points between these four days. The latter four festivals were considered to mark the turning point of the seasons. When the Roman calendar of 12 months was adopted, the conventional turning points of the seasons got moved to the nearest 1st of the month. Perfectly rational and sensible. I don't know why the Germans have yet to discover it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,588 ✭✭✭✭M.T. Cranium


    From what I've seen,

    winter ... late January to mid-March in two years out of fifty

    spring ... mid-March to late July

    summer ... could be any day mid-July to early August and then again a week in Sept

    autumn ... most of summer and then on into winter, blends imperceptibly into spring.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,157 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Ahhh....Summer. :) My favorite day of the year! :pac:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Mullaghteelin


    You will find some old farts on UK weather boards insist that Spring starts on March 21st, and many Americans will agree with them.
    They must think the Irish are mad eccentric altogether, with our Spring half over before theirs begins.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    You will find some old farts on UK weather boards insist that Spring starts on March 21st, and many Americans will agree with them.
    They must think the Irish are mad eccentric altogether, with our Spring half over before theirs begins.

    That’s pretty strange isn’t it? Sure weather lags the sun but to say that the seasons start on the solstice or equinox makes no sense. Living in America I remember watching the typical end of news happy story they have, it was a local channel. Anyway it was all about the mid-summer festival the next day. She asked the weather man what the weather was like the next day and he smiled and said that mid summer should be warm and dry. (Well it was California). After that unscripted segue he went into his scripted spiel which started. “Tomorrow is the first day of summer and it will be a warm and dry one”.

    Make up your mind yanks.

    Also a good answer to germans.

    “Why does Irish summer begin in May?”
    “Before I Answer that when do you celebrate mid summer?”

    In fact mid summer is big in Europe and it is mid the Irish summer not their own. They would be mid July.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Our seasons lag owing to the warmth of the seas around our shores. The transition from Autumn to Winter is slow because of the amount of time it takes for the seas to lose the heat built up over the summer. The same can be said for Spring going into Summer when the cooler seas cause a chill effect on the atmosphere. I personally hate the latter as the daylight is long but it's cool, nothing worse than the sun shining brightly till 9pm in May and the air is a cool 8c or 9c - there is a certain nastiness about the first two to three weeks of May in that regard.

    Using my many years now keeping an eye on things weather related, I consider it Winter from November 22nd until 16th March. Spring starts on St. Patrick's day and runs until May 16th. Summer runs from May 17th until September 21st with Autumn from September 22nd until November 21st. There is nothing scientific about this, but rather a "feeling" on when the weather has *turned a corner*


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well, once we hit February its obvious that growth starts again, and nature becomes more active, birds mating etc.

    If you base Spring on the cycle of Nature and its re-awakening, rather climate statistics, then the Irish version is the one to choose.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭PCX


    Met Éireann define the seasons in Ireland as

    Spring - March, April, May
    Summer - June, July, August
    Autumn - September, October, November
    Winter - December, January, February

    The traditional way of having spring start on St. Bridget's day (1st Feb) is not based on the climate but on the old traditional celtic religious calendar which was based on the solstices and equinoxes.

    Like Met Éireann I personally prefer to use the climate to define seasons in line with most of the rest of the world.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    PCX wrote: »
    Met Éireann define the seasons in Ireland as

    Spring - March, April, May
    Summer - June, July, August
    Autumn - September, October, November
    Winter - December, January, February

    The traditional way of having spring start on St. Bridget's day (1st Feb) is not based on the climate but on the old traditional celtic religious calendar which was based on the solstices and equinoxes.

    Like Met Éireann I personally prefer to use the climate to define seasons in line with most of the rest of the world.

    Except they don’t. Not when they celebrate mid summer.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midsummer

    This indicates that the Irish tradition was common in Europe, once.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭Mobhi1


    You can tell when it's summer in Ireland - the rain gets warmer !!

    Does it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭piuswal


    gbee wrote: »
    A point about the Daffodils. Daffs like cold weather and are generally portrayed as breaking through snow, and are heralded as the sign that Winter is ending and Spring can't be far away.

    Horticulturists on the boards may confirm that 'warm weather' dafs don't shine as brightly and wither and die sooner giving a short display, as opposed to the one that break ice and snow to bloom.

    Daffs should start to bloom still in Winter and the Spring should arrive as they fade ~ but they will bloom regardless, the weather will dictate how long and how bright.

    Daffodils began blooming around Glasnevin in the past few days


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I regard the seasons this way,

    November, December, January and February as winter,

    March and April as Spring.

    May, June, July, August as Summer.

    September and October as Autumn.

    The idea that all the seasons should each be equal and three months long seems rather childish. Spring and Autumn are just transitions of two months each between the two main seasons.

    It's about amount of day time, with the solstices being height of summer/winter and equivalents equinoxes in their seasons.

    AFAIR


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well, once we hit February its obvious that growth starts again, and nature becomes more active, birds mating etc.

    If you base Spring on the cycle of Nature and its re-awakening, rather climate statistics, then the Irish version is the one to choose.

    Agreed as it's based on daylight


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Míshásta


    The origins of the Irish seasons may well go back to pagan times, but we've had 15 centuries of Christianity, of one brand or the other, in between.

    Farmers would start ploughing and preparing the ground for sowing in February, weather permitting. Grass growth would also begin.
    There were reasons for the Irish system other than pre-history reasons.

    I look on the Irish system nowadays as more a cultural tradition than a strict meteorological definition. Poetry and folklore are full of references to our traditional seasons.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Míshásta wrote: »
    The origins of the Irish seasons may well go back to pagan times, but we've had 15 centuries of Christianity, of one brand or the other, in between.

    Farmers would start ploughing and preparing the ground for sowing in February, weather permitting. Grass growth would also begin.
    There were reasons for the Irish system other than pre-history reasons.

    I look on the Irish system nowadays as more a cultural tradition than a strict meteorological definition. Poetry and folklore are full of references to our traditional seasons.



    It's not based on meterological is astronomical. Makes far more sense to base it around a set pattern of day length than weather which varies from year to year (even if it holds to overall pattern)


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,489 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    It could be argued that we have 5 seasons.

    The fifth being the short winter like we are going through now.

    September can be better than summer and March worse than winter.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It could be argued that we have 5 seasons.

    The fifth being the short winter like we are going through now.

    September can be better than summer and March worse than winter.


    Which is why basing our seasons on changing patterns makes no sense. The old lads had it right, lock it down to a set period based on the shortest day of the year


  • Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭Kenz


    Simply tell her that "We" are right, and the rest of the world is wrong... She'll understand


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