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I think i need religion.

  • 06-02-2010 12:52AM
    #1
    lostboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 140 ✭✭


    a friend of mine(14) committed suicide and was buried quiet recently, it is still quiet fresh in my mind and it has got me thinking.

    I am 19 and agnostic but am a member of the catholic church, it was a catholic funeral.

    one thing prominent in my mind is whether she has gone on to an afterlife or shes simply gone. she believed in an afterlife but i dunno how religious she was. She was a good person

    i know by posting here i wont get any sort of definitive answer im after but in the eyes of a christian where is she gone? I find it hard to believe shes just finished and hope her soul/spirit lives on in some form.Like there has to be something, i would hate to think in 50-60 years my consciousness will simply cease to exist. I cannot fathom it,even in sleeping you have dreams which although isnt physically conscious it is still a sort of consciousness i feel.


    I have a few other questions on christianity i would like to add aswell as it may well correct my misconceptions.


    Where do non christians go when they die?
    Are different christian religions i.e catholic and protestant compatible?
    do catholics think protestant and other christians goto hell and vice versa.
    is there any christian religion compatible with homosexuality.
    Whats to say christianity is the right religion and when we die we may end up facing a god from a different religion.
    Is it possible to be a good christian without subscribing to any of the current christian religions and just saying you are a christian as opposed to I am catholic or I am protestant etc.
    What happens to an athiest when they die
    I am an occasional Cannabis user.how do christians view this and would it be considered a sin?

    I am asking these questions as I am considering practicing my religion again but not nessesarily as a catholic as I may well fit in better to another christian religion

    thanks for listening.

    p.s. this may look fairly trolly being a first post and all that but it is far from that


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    lostboy wrote: »
    I am an occasional Cannabis user.how do christians view this and would it be considered a sin?

    Right, I'm not a Christian but...
    STOP!! You don't need to use it.


  • #3
    gav240
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70 ✭✭gav240


    Malty_T wrote: »
    Right, I'm not a Christian but...
    STOP!! You don't need to use it.

    oh i laughed

    oh how i laughed


  • #4
    gav240
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70 ✭✭gav240


    and then laughed some more


  • #5
    gav240
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70 ✭✭gav240


    wait if you stop smoking you'll go to heaven



    jaysus i'm in tears here


  • #6
    lostboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 140 ✭✭lostboy


    no need to rip the piss lads, it is a genuine question and this thread is not about wether i should or shouldnt be using it


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  • #7
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    Welcome to the forum, Lostboy.

    You raise some big questions, maybe the biggest that can be asked by anyone. So I think it might take a little time for people to respond :)

    My condolences to you.




    *Mod hat on*
    Folks, this reminder is obviously strictly for paper work purposes :pac:. Let's treat this topic with the respect it deserves. No points scoring and no bickering.
    *Mod hat off*


  • #8
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    Humm... it seems that in the few minutes it took me to type my post, a troll entered the building.

    Gav has been banned, no more messing.


  • #9
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Malty_T wrote: »
    Right, I'm not a Christian but...
    STOP!! You don't need to use it.

    Now that I've got bit out of the way.

    Firstly,
    Sorry about your friend. Also, I'd recommend starting a similar thread in A&A.
    Where do non christians go when they die?
    According to most Christian denominations they'll end up in state or place known as hell. As to what exactly hell is can vary. Some view God as supreme being of righteousness, usually in this view hell is a place of eternal torment and suffering for sins committed during the mortal life. Others view it as state of absence from God.
    Are different christian religions i.e catholic and protestant compatible?
    do catholics think protestant and other christians goto hell and vice versa.
    Many would argue that yes they are compatible.
    is there any christian religion compatible with homosexuality.
    There are some views of Christianity that don't view homosexual acts as a sin. Most however do view them as one.
    Whats to say christianity is the right religion and when we die we may end up facing a god from a different religion.
    That's a matter of faith and examination of the evidence that supports it.
    Is it possible to be a good christian without subscribing to any of the current christian religions and just saying you are a christian as opposed to I am catholic or I am protestant etc.

    Possibly, some Christians do seem to think so. Many others would obviously disagree.
    What happens to an athiest when they die
    Well following Christian doctrine they must end up in hell.


  • #10
    miss hell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭miss hell


    oh jesus. Forget about religion. You don't need religion to give you a sense that your soul is going somewhere. Just be spiritual..... nearly every religion teaches some great things. But it's important to think for yourself. It's too easy for your brain to be taken in by all these beliefs and rules that will make you think your life has direction. But just think for yourself!!!! I don't believe we just cease to exist after we die. But I certainly do not think that there is some supernatural being in the sky telling us that we don't belong in heaven and so he sends us to hell!


  • #11
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    lostboy wrote: »
    Where do non christians go when they die?
    As stated by malty_t some christians belive an express elevator to hell awaits them, though that been said more mainstream churchs believe otherwise. The catholic church hold the 'hope' that those worthy are offered a place in heaven. Other churches believe likewise.
    So I guess its simply more extreme christians believe hell while more moderate christians believe a loving god would allow a final chance for salvation once you've got the *ahem* evidence before you.
    lostboy wrote: »
    Are different christian religions i.e catholic and protestant compatible?
    Clearly it depends on the church, but consider that mixed ceremonies are not uncommon here in Ireland between the Catholic church and say Church of Ireland. That alone would indicate they are.

    Naturally more extreme Christian sects believe otherwise.
    lostboy wrote: »
    do catholics think protestant and other christians goto hell and vice versa.
    Again mainstream churches believe no, while the more extreme would in some cases say yes. You noticing a trend here :p
    lostboy wrote: »
    is there any christian religion compatible with homosexuality.
    Most Christians religions reject homosexuality the act, but not the person.
    lostboy wrote: »
    Whats to say christianity is the right religion and when we die we may end up facing a god from a different religion.
    What indeed. The question then to ask yourself is what sort of god would you believe yourself to most likely be facing. One which judges you on your actions or one which simply was simply looking for sheep with grazed knee's.
    tbh that's one only you can answer for yourself.
    lostboy wrote: »
    Is it possible to be a good christian without subscribing to any of the current christian religions and just saying you are a christian as opposed to I am catholic or I am protestant etc.
    Ofcourse you can, the preconditions are rather simple.
    lostboy wrote: »
    What happens to an athiest when they die
    See the first answer.
    lostboy wrote: »
    I am an occasional Cannabis user.how do christians view this and would it be considered a sin?
    I'd turn that around and ask you do you feel guilty yourself, the rightness or wrongness lies there.
    lostboy wrote: »
    I am asking these questions as I am considering practicing my religion again but not nessesarily as a catholic as I may well fit in better to another christian religion
    I'd say take it slowly and don't rush into anything.


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  • #12
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,066 ✭✭✭homer911


    I wish these A&A people would take their comments to their own forum - As Malty_T suggested, open a thread over there if you want a non-Christian response, but the OP posted here!

    As regards the whole Catholic/Protestant questions, you should find that people recognise its a personal matter and not a generalisation, but you will find those who dismiss entire denominations without any thought or understanding. The fact is that there are many individuals in both main Christian faiths that would recognise that committed christians exist in both, but also that many cultural christians exist in both - its impossible to generalise.

    As regards these two christian faiths being compatable - in the core fundamentals of faith - yes they are - its usually the stuff not important for salvation that they disagree on

    OP, I suggest you focus your thoughts on the fundamentals of christian faith first of all, before choosing which church is right for you


  • #13
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    Lostboy, I am deeply sorry to hear of your loss. As one who has suffered similar loss, though perhaps not as close to the heart, I can empathise. On faith, I cannot sincerely say that it ever really helped me in any of my darkest times. It gave me temporary solace, but despite an earnest search for peace and meaning, it ultimately failed me entirely. It wasn't until I learned to define my own meaning, my own conditions for happiness, that I actually got on the road to being happy. I hope that doesn't sound too "self-help"!
    homer911 wrote: »
    I wish these A&A people would take their comments to their own forum - As Malty_T suggested, open a thread over there if you want a non-Christian response, but the OP posted here!

    As long as the responses are respectful, I'm pretty sure there's no grounds at all for such an arrangement. If the OP posted first on A&A and you guys tried to argue for faith, you would not be asked to stop trying. The purpose of this forum is surely not to shelter you or others from dissenting views, else there are plenty of threads that shouldn't be here. Make a convincing argument for your position and stop worrying that people disagree.


  • #14
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    lostboy,
    Christianity is about getting to know Jesus Christ and having a relationship with Him. That means that we seek His will and try to avoid the things that displease Him - pretty much like many other relationships.

    Asking which churches allow which kind of behaviour is, to my way of thinking, a bit like putting the cart before the horse. Far better to concentrate on getting to know Jesus first and then afterwards to try to work out what He wants you to do and what He wants you to avoid.

    St Augustine famously said something along the lines of, "Love God with all your heart and then do whatever you like!" - the implication being that if you really love God then you'll begin to like the right kind of stuff.

    So, the answer is not to say, "I'd like to become a Christian at a church that will let me smoke weed" - but rather to try to get to know Jesus without locking yourself into a particular sect or denomination (Alpha courses, backed by all the main churches, are a great introduction to Christian faith www.alphacourse.ie). Then you can choose a church that fits with what you feel Jesus is saying to you about how you should live and worship.


  • #15
    Antbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 ✭✭✭Antbert


    Whats to say christianity is the right religion and when we die we may end up facing a god from a different religion.
    This is the best question you've asked, and I think one of the major fundamental flaws with organised religion. I've yet to see a good religious response to it.

    homer911 wrote: »
    I wish these A&A people would take their comments to their own forum - As Malty_T suggested, open a thread over there if you want a non-Christian response, but the OP posted here!
    *AHEM*
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055735997&page=3


  • #16
    chozometroid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭chozometroid


    lostboy wrote: »
    a friend of mine(14) committed suicide and was buried quiet recently, it is still quiet fresh in my mind and it has got me thinking.

    I am 19 and agnostic but am a member of the catholic church, it was a catholic funeral.

    one thing prominent in my mind is whether she has gone on to an afterlife or shes simply gone. she believed in an afterlife but i dunno how religious she was. She was a good person

    i know by posting here i wont get any sort of definitive answer im after but in the eyes of a christian where is she gone?
    Well, first of all, no one is "good" in this world. I suppose we call people good based on what we do know, but we all fall short of the true standard for good.
    That said, your friend still had the opportunity to accept Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior, and accept the gift of salvation.
    As for where she is going, only God knows. He is the judge and will treat her justly. I'm not sure if suicide is an automatic ticket to "hell."
    It would depend on her reasoning and state of mind, I would think. If she rejected the life that God gave her and just "gave up" based on her own power to overcome her difficulties, then she basically rejected God. However, if she was not mentally capable or perhaps afflicted by demons, then she was not actually in control of her life. God will judge her accordingly.
    Where do non christians go when they die?
    Instead of using labels, we can say that those who reject God do not spend eternity with Him in heaven.
    Are different christian religions i.e catholic and protestant compatible?
    Depends on how vague you want to be in defining what your religious beliefs are.
    do catholics think protestant and other christians goto hell and vice versa.
    Once again, without using labels we can say that the true followers of Christ will spend eternity with Him in heaven.
    is there any christian religion compatible with homosexuality.
    Members of every denomination have accepted it to varying degrees. I'm sure all modern evangelicals are at least accepting of the homosexual as an individual, but not the act. It's the same with accepting sinners (we all are sinners) and not accepting the sin. Every individual has a different stance.
    Whats to say christianity is the right religion and when we die we may end up facing a god from a different religion.
    No one can know this. You must decide for yourself. It's not up to us to convince you. The Holy Spirit is real and will do the work of impressing upon people the need for Christ and the conviction of sins.
    Is it possible to be a good christian without subscribing to any of the current christian religions and just saying you are a christian as opposed to I am catholic or I am protestant etc.
    I'm sure it is, but fellowship with other believers is important and healthy for spiritual growth.
    What happens to an athiest when they die
    They die and cease to exist.
    I am an occasional Cannabis user.how do christians view this and would it be considered a sin?
    Abusing drugs or foods is a sin, as well as mistreating your body.
    As to "occasional cannibis use," there is no definite answer. It is "natural" and has been shown to be good for chronic pain, but what are your reasons?


  • #17
    kelly1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Hello LostBoy, welcome to the forum. I'll do my best to answer your questions from a Catholic perspective.
    lostboy wrote: »
    a friend of mine(14) committed suicide and was buried quiet recently, it is still quiet fresh in my mind and it has got me thinking.
    I'm very sorry to hear that. I pray God will bring you comfort.
    lostboy wrote: »
    i know by posting here i wont get any sort of definitive answer im after but in the eyes of a christian where is she gone?
    That's a difficult one to answer of course but I certainly believe that God is full of mercy and that Jesus died for her and our sins.
    lostboy wrote: »
    Where do non christians go when they die?
    Nobody knows. It depends on how much they loved God and neighbour. Christianity teaches that all salvation is through Christ but not that only Christians can be saved.
    lostboy wrote: »
    Are different christian religions i.e catholic and protestant compatible?
    There are many significant differences particularly when it comes to the sacraments. Protestant /evangelical theology about the sacraments is very different to the Catholic view. In Catholicism, the sacraments (baptism, confirmation, Eucharist, marriage, holy order and anointing of the sick) are very much central to the worship of God. We believe that the sacraments communicate divine grace in a very profound way to the entire Church and not just the individual. The Eucharist is the chief among the sacraments because Christ's entire humanity and divinity is present in the Eucharist. This the greatest treasure that the Church posesses.
    lostboy wrote: »
    do catholics think protestant and other christians goto hell and vice versa.
    I would be very wrong to think so. God's mercy is open to everyone. But to have any kind of assurance of salvation it is necessary to follow Christ and to believe that He died for our sins and that He's the Son of God.
    lostboy wrote: »
    is there any christian religion compatible with homosexuality.
    No. There are of course liberal groups who see no problem with homosexual acts but it cleary goes against the teaching of the Church and the bible.
    lostboy wrote: »
    Whats to say christianity is the right religion and when we die we may end up facing a god from a different religion.
    Very hard to answer this one in a short space, it deserves another thread really. I think the important points which give credence to Christianity are:

    - The fulfillment of Old Testament prophesies in Jesus
    - The power, authority and miracles of Jesus in the Gospels
    - The evidence for the Resurrection
    - It is a religion which is totally concerned with love of God and neighbour and rejects selfishness. There are too many religions which are self-centered.
    - Testimonies of the Catholic saints who had profound relationships with God. I would for instance recommend you read the "Diary of St. Faustina". It's an incredible book about her very real relationship with Jesus and the message of God's mercy and love.
    - Testimonies of people (like me) who repented and converted to following Christ.
    lostboy wrote: »
    Is it possible to be a good christian without subscribing to any of the current christian religions and just saying you are a christian as opposed to I am catholic or I am protestant etc.
    It's far from ideal. Christianity isn't an individual thing. The sense of community among the worshipers who make up the "Body of Christ" is very important. I would point out that the Church you're a member of is the same Church founded by Christ 2000 years ago. I would encourage you to research that.
    lostboy wrote: »
    What happens to an athiest when they die
    I wouldn't like to make a call on that but the bible tells us that those who don't believe will be condemned. Of course if you know nothing about Jesus that's a different matter. I'm talking about people who make the decision to reject Christ like I did.
    lostboy wrote: »
    I am an occasional Cannabis user.how do christians view this and would it be considered a sin?
    Yes because it's an abuse of the body which God gave you and also a form of escapism which might in some way replace reliance on God.
    lostboy wrote: »
    I am asking these questions as I am considering practicing my religion again but not nessesarily as a catholic as I may well fit in better to another christian religion.
    I would strongly encourage you to remain where you are. If it's truth you're after, you're in the right place and also if you switch to a Protestant/evangelical church, you'll loose out on the great gift of the sacraments.
    lostboy wrote: »
    p.s. this may look fairly trolly being a first post and all that but it is far from that
    No, I thought it was a very good, genuine, honest post!

    Like PDN said, Christianity is all about our relationship with Jesus. Through prayer, reading the bible and the sacraments, we open ourselves up to the wonderful grace of Christ and start to see things in a totally new light.

    God bless you in your journey!
    Noel.


  • #18
    kelly1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Antbert wrote: »
    This is the best question you've asked, and I think one of the major fundamental flaws with organised religion. I've yet to see a good religious response to it.
    Hello, I would recommend you read the case for Christ by Lee Strobel for good arguments for Christ.


  • #19
    Antbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 ✭✭✭Antbert


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Hello, I would recommend you read the case for Christ by Lee Strobel for good arguments for Christ.
    I will investigate my library!


  • #20
    Dean820
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭Dean820


    Malty_T wrote: »
    What happens to an atheist when they die?

    Well following Christian doctrine they must end up in hell.

    So if you're a good person but not a christian you still go to hell? That makes sense. :rolleyes:


  • #21
    Antbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 ✭✭✭Antbert


    Dean820 wrote: »
    So if you're a good person but not a christian you still go to hell? That makes sense. :rolleyes:
    Luckily, the thought of hell doesn't really bother many atheists.


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  • #22
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    If atheists want to discuss hell among themselves then they have a forum where they can do so.

    The Christian position is that nobody is actually good - so good people don't go to hell.


  • #23
    Dean820
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭Dean820


    What in their view is good? I mean, it doesn't really make sense to me.


  • #24
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Dean820 wrote: »
    What in their view is good? I mean, it doesn't really make sense to me.

    God is good. Everyone else has sinned.


  • #25
    Soul Winner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭Soul Winner


    Antbert wrote: »
    Luckily, the thought of hell doesn't really bother many atheists.

    Well of course it doesn't, they don't believe it exists, why would they be bothered about it? Only people who truly believe that hell exists will try to avoid such a place. Hell is like heaven in one sense, if it does exist, then it's existence is not dependent on whether people believe in it or not. It just IS. The criteria for its existence is not based on how many people believe in it. Theist believing in hell is not going to create one if it doesn't exist, and atheists not being bothered about hell is not going to make it disappear if it does exist.


  • #26
    Antbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 ✭✭✭Antbert


    PDN wrote: »
    If atheists want to discuss hell among themselves then they have a forum where they can do so.

    The Christian position is that nobody is actually good - so good people don't go to hell.
    I was more saying that atheists can't see 'being damned to hell' as a threat, because we don't believe in it. So it wouldn't exactly worry us.

    We can rant about Christians believing good people go to hell, and the flaws in that logic, but that's not what I was saying there.


  • #27
    Dean820
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭Dean820


    PDN wrote: »
    God is good. Everyone else has sinned.

    But why would God allow us to sin in the first place?


  • #28
    Antbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 ✭✭✭Antbert


    Uh oh... I sense tension...


  • #29
    Dean820
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭Dean820


    I'm not trying to cause trouble here. I'm not one of those know-all atheists. I'm asking questions which have been on my mind since well, a kid. One of the worse things I've experienced in my life is losing my faith. I wish I had it again.


  • #30
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Dean820 wrote: »
    But why would God allow us to sin in the first place?

    Because He gave us free will rather than creating us as pre-programmed pets.


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  • #31
    chozometroid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭chozometroid


    Sin is a "side effect" of free will. Doing anything than trusting what God says, is sin.

    Even though we all are sinners by nature, we can by transformed and take upon us the nature of Christ. We then willingly allow God to guide us and follow His perfect will, which is best for our lives. So, through our free will, we reject sin and follow God.

    It's like training for the Olympics. We have to have a coach. We have the potential, but the coach has the knowledge and just wants us to listen and take His perfect advice. We have the choice to not listen to the coach, and by doing so, not make the Olympics.


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