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[KEEP IT CIVIL MOD WARNING POST#143,218] Lancet finally withdraws Wakefield study

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Comments

  • #32
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,043 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Bonito wrote: »
    Ok, lets look at it this way. Hypothectically lets say you have a child. You dote on it, see him/her progress amazingly each day. You're proud of their behaviour, will to learn, will to interact with other children.

    3 years later, Ooops we missed the date for the MMR we better get it done now. You're child gets the vaccine. After vaccine your child starts to show signs of autism. You hear word on the wire from other parents that the same thing happened to a child they know after they got the vaccine.

    Here's the question. Are you going to blame A. Your genes. B. The vaccine or C. Go ah well it's just a coincidence that they happened to develop autism after they received the vaccine?

    Even though signs of autism start at 6-8 months and as the child progresses socially, mentally and physically they get more noticeable.

    That had been the storys told by parents, it was the same pattern with one of my cousins, as a result I didn't get the MMR for my kids.

    I am glad the report has been sorted out as being false but I still believe I did the right thing, as my son was later diagnosed as being on the spectrum and
    I at least know for a fact that the MMR had nothing to do with it.


  • #33
    Bonito
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,399 ✭✭✭Bonito


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    That had been the storys told by parents, it was the same pattern with one of my cousins, as a result I didn't get the MMR for my kids.

    I am glad the report has been sorted out as being false but I still believe I did the right thing, as my son was later diagnosed as being on the spectrum and
    I at least know for a fact that the MMR had nothing to do with it.
    Thanks for that. An awful lot of people have failed to realise how much fear was put in to parents to stop them immunising their kids. Then in the odd cases where the child was immunised and they later developed autism the parents went on the whole "Oh my god janet and barry were right I never should have got peter his MMR jab*"

    *All made up names.

    At the time it created massive concerns. Now that it has been cast out maybe immunisations will go up BUT, I can guarantee that some parents will STILL believe the story of "The MMR vaccine may cause your child to become autistic" and their children wont be immunised.


  • #34
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,043 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    That is because this news will not get the same publicity, put I have posted about in the parenting forum, cos it is important that parents know.


  • #35
    kelle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭kelle


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    That had been the storys told by parents, it was the same pattern with one of my cousins, as a result I didn't get the MMR for my kids.

    I am glad the report has been sorted out as being false but I still believe I did the right thing, as my son was later diagnosed as being on the spectrum and
    I at least know for a fact that the MMR had nothing to do with it.
    Same here, Thaedydal. I didn't get my children immunised until they were 4yo, my older daughter was diagnosed with mild ASD last year at the age of 6 and questionnaires we did showed she had symptoms of it going back to when she was 2-3 years old. So i was relieved she had not had the MMR at that stage, I'm not thinking "What if".


  • #36
    goose2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    That had been the storys told by parents, it was the same pattern with one of my cousins, as a result I didn't get the MMR for my kids.

    I am glad the report has been sorted out as being false but I still believe I did the right thing, as my son was later diagnosed as being on the spectrum and
    I at least know for a fact that the MMR had nothing to do with it.
    No, you did the wrong thing. Your son could have died, or been made infertile by mumps.


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  • #37
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    That had been the storys told by parents, it was the same pattern with one of my cousins, as a result I didn't get the MMR for my kids.

    I am glad the report has been sorted out as being false but I still believe I did the right thing, as my son was later diagnosed as being on the spectrum and
    I at least know for a fact that the MMR had nothing to do with it.

    If he had gotten the vaccine, it would have made no difference to where he was on the spectrum, but he would have been immune to measles, mumps and rubella. I don't blame you. The fear was insidious and preyed on parents protective instincts for their children, but children died as a direct result of Wakefield's "study" and he can never be forgiven for that.


  • #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Bonito wrote: »
    Ok, lets look at it this way. Hypothectically lets say you have a child. You dote on it, see him/her progress amazingly each day. You're proud of their behaviour, will to learn, will to interact with other children.

    3 years later, Ooops we missed the date for the MMR we better get it done now. You're child gets the vaccine. After vaccine your child starts to show signs of autism. You hear word on the wire from other parents that the same thing happened to a child they know after they got the vaccine.

    Here's the question. Are you going to blame A. Your genes. B. The vaccine or C. Go ah well it's just a coincidence that they happened to develop autism after they received the vaccine?

    Even though signs of autism start at 6-8 months and as the child progresses socially, mentally and physically they get more noticeable.

    This.


  • #39
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,043 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If he had gotten the vaccine, it would have made no difference to where he was on the spectrum, but he would have been immune to measles, mumps and rubella. I don't blame you. The fear was insidious and preyed on parents protective instincts for their children, but children died as a direct result of Wakefield's "study" and he can never be forgiven for that.

    Yes but for years I would have been concerned and guilt ridden that getting the vaccine had been a contributing factor. Now I know he is how he is due to being non neruotypical, I know a hell of a lot more and with the news on this I will be making sure both of mine get the MMR.

    I still think given the information I had 10 years ago I made the right call.
    Given the information I have now I am choosing to make a different call.


  • #40
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    Yes but for years I would have been concerned and guilt ridden that getting the vaccine had been a contributing factor. Now I know he is how he is due to being non neruotypical, I know a hell of a lot more and with the news on this I will be making sure both of mine get the MMR.

    I still think given the information I had 10 years ago I made the right call.
    Given the information I have now I am choosing to make a different call.

    The information 10 years ago was not information, it was mis-information, but as I said I don't blame you, it's parental instinct to be very suspicious of anything that gets injected into their kids. My parents made the same decision. When I was about 10 or 11 I got the mumps and it was fúcking horrible. I was really sick for nearly a month. I got it from a friend of mine living across the road who was never immunised due to Wakefail hype, who in turn got it off a kid in school that was never immunised due to Wakefail hype, who in turn.... etc etc.

    The exact same thing happened a few years ago with measles here in Cork, and it cost several children their lives. That is what really gets me about the whole thing, it's not just some lofty academic exercise on the merits of various research etc., it prevented massive amounts of children from recieving a life saving vaccine.


  • #41
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,043 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    That mis information wasn't the only information I had, my decision wasn't easily swayed but that bit of information and at the time the internet was not as extensive as it is now and it was not as easy to get access to medical journals and publications with out going into a university library.

    Mumps sucks I had it as a kid, I also had measles as did all my siblings and cousins.
    I knew at the time a lot about mumps and mealses and fúck all about the autism spectrum. I had no issues wiht any other vaccinations up until that point, my kids have had all the rest are due for the swinefly and the melingitis ones shortly and now that this is knocked totally on the head they will be getting the MMR.


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  • #42
    Bonito
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,399 ✭✭✭Bonito


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The information 10 years ago was not information, it was mis-information, but as I said I don't blame you, it's parental instinct to be very suspicious of anything that gets injected into their kids. My parents made the same decision. When I was about 10 or 11 I got the mumps and it was fúcking horrible. I was really sick for nearly a month. I got it from a friend of mine living across the road who was never immunised due to Wakefail hype, who in turn got it off a kid in school that was never immunised due to Wakefail hype, who in turn.... etc etc.

    The exact same thing happened a few years ago with measles here in Cork, and it cost several children their lives. That is what really gets me about the whole thing, it's not just some lofty academic exercise on the merits of various research etc., it prevented massive amounts of children from recieving a life saving vaccine.
    +1 It was the, what we know now to be mis-information, information that caused the fear and problems. Obviously you had cases then of even though a child was vaccinated they could have still contracted the infection - I know I did. I had the german measles and mumps after my immunisation. Not consecutively but I still got them. In saying that, it never put me or my parents off vaccines. I just so happened to be one of those one-in-whatever cases.


  • #43
    MingulayJohnny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 149 ✭✭MingulayJohnny


    I think that the most important factor that missing in this debate is that whats good for one individual is not necessarily good for another. It's that rare child who happens to have an extra sensitive system or some kind of genetic proclivity that is activated when exposed to certain vaccines and\or their ingredients. I've reacted very badly to any vaccine I've ever got and when I got to the age of consent I decided not to be vaccinated again and if I was in a situation where I needed a certain vaccine to travel I'd have to find one that was free from Thimerosal which I think is a causal factor in autism cases in SOME cases. You have to treat the individual as exactly that and lumping millions of people into easy categories will not get to the root of the issue.


  • #44
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    I can't begin to fathom the pain this must have caused parents whose children received the vaccine and were then diagnosed (probably the wrong word - can't think of an alternative) with autism. The fact the study has been discredited is no doubt a comfort, but I doubt the feeling is something that would just go away completely overnight... :(


  • #45
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    Kelle 2 wrote: »
    So i was relieved she had not had the MMR at that stage, I'm not thinking "What if".


    you were also lucky not to be left thinking, "what if I had had her immunised, she might not have dropped dead of measles?"


  • #46
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,703 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Everyone should have known for years now that this MMR = Autism is the biggest load of ****e. Good to see the gob****es have been proved wrong


  • #47
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    MingulayJohnny wrote: »
    I think that the most important factor that missing in this debate is that whats good for one individual is not necessarily good for another. It's that rare child who happens to have an extra sensitive system or some kind of genetic proclivity that is activated when exposed to certain vaccines and\or their ingredients.

    If you're allergic to any components in the vaccine then you shouldn't take it.

    You're right, not everyone can be vaccinated. Some people have underlying illnesses that prevent it, some people are, as I said, allergic, and some people are getting treatment for eg. cancer, and so they can't handle vaccination.

    That's where herd immunity comes in -- healthy people don't just get vaccinated for themselves, they get vaccinated to protect those who can't get the vaccine, because those are the people who are relying on the rest of us.

    If I'm not mistaken, research has shown that you're less likely to contract one of these viruses as an unimmunized person if you're surrounded by immunzed people, than if you're an immunized person in a group of unimmunized people. That's because good as vaccines are, they're still not 100% effective.
    MingulayJohnny wrote: »
    I've reacted very badly to any vaccine I've ever got and when I got to the age of consent I decided not to be vaccinated again and if I was in a situation where I needed a certain vaccine to travel I'd have to find one that was free from Thimerosal which I think is a causal factor in autism cases in SOME cases. You have to treat the individual as exactly that and lumping millions of people into easy categories will not get to the root of the issue.

    Oh FFS, substantiate that bullsh*t with research or else shut up. Thimerosal has been shown time and again to be safe. There is more mercury in a tuna sandwich than in a Thimerosal-containing dose of vaccine.


  • #48
    Truthrevolution
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭Truthrevolution


    I think some of you need to take a look at this article, id advise to read the FULL article, i may get into trouble over this as it caused a bit of controversy already and subsequently got my thread closed.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055821209


  • #49
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    I think some of you need to take a look at this article, id advise to read the FULL article, i may get into trouble over this as it caused a bit of controversy already and subsequently got my thread closed.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055821209
    /checks link

    /sees Wakefield's endorsement by Jim Carey and Jenny McCarthy being claimed as a good thing

    /sees reference to naturalnews.com , the home of antiscience quakery

    /dies a little inside


  • #50
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    The media’s MMR hoax – Bad Science

    I thought that was a good piece on it. The media have a lot to blame on this.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #51
    Truthrevolution
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭Truthrevolution


    Dave! wrote: »
    /checks link

    /sees Wakefield's endorsement by Jim Carey and Jenny McCarthy being claimed as a good thing

    /sees reference to naturalnews.com , the home of antiscience quakery

    /dies a little inside

    Looks like your just falling for the BigPharma propaganda they are talking about here

    http://www.naturalnews.com/028101_The_Lancet_Dr_Wakefield.html

    I know i may be wasting my time as you probably wont even read it but its there in black and white anyway


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  • #52
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    It's about fucking time! Anybody got a figure on the amount of lives this sensationalised crap cost?


    *Yes bypassing the swear filter was perfectly warranted here.


  • #53
    MikeC101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭MikeC101


    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    Looks like your just falling for the BigPharma propaganda they are talking about here

    Yeah, I'd take Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy's opinions on medical issues over peer reviewed science (and in this case, sheer bloody logic and a very basic understanding of statistics) any day.


  • #54
    Truthrevolution
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭Truthrevolution


    MikeC101 wrote: »
    Yeah, I'd take Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy's opinions on medical issues over peer reviewed science (and in this case, sheer bloody logic and a very basic understanding of statistics) any day.

    Im not asking you to do that im asking you to read up on Dr Wakefields findings......


  • #55
    MikeC101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭MikeC101


    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    Im not asking you to do that im asking you to read up on Dr Wakefields findings......

    I have to register to view the full article. I do not want to give my email address to that site.


  • #56
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    Im not asking you to do that im asking you to read up on Dr Wakefields findings......
    Why should his discredited study be read as fact over all the other studies that show no link between vaccines and autism?


  • #57
    Truthrevolution
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭Truthrevolution


    Dave! wrote: »
    Why should his discredited study be read as fact over all the other studies that show no link between vaccines and autism?

    Just goes to show you didnt even read the articles or Dr Wakefields research


  • #58
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    Just goes to show you didnt even read the articles or Dr Wakefields research
    Ahh, ignore my point eh.....

    Why should Wakefield's discredited study be regarded as gospel, and not all of the other studies (the ones that show no link), which involve a pool of hundreds of thousands of children?

    Is there even any other bogus studies to support your crazy claims? Or is Wakefield's the only one? :confused: Surely some other scumbag would have tried the same sh*t by now?


  • #59
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    Just goes to show you didnt even read the articles or Dr Wakefields research

    Part of the scientific method includes replicating other scientists' results. To put it simply, if you can't replicate the results of another peer reviewed article then either you're doing it wrong (in which the original scientist should be able to point out to you where) or the original results were wrong. As no one has yet been able to replicate Mr Wakefield's results and he has been unable to explain as to why, it looks alot like he was wrong. By all means read his research and try to replicate the results yourself, if you can do that, then come back and we might listen to you. For now though, his paper has been discredited and should be forgotten about.


  • #60
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    Looks like your just falling for the BigPharma propaganda they are talking about here

    http://www.naturalnews.com/028101_The_Lancet_Dr_Wakefield.html

    I know i may be wasting my time as you probably wont even read it but its there in black and white anyway

    Wakefield was in the pay of Big Pharma!

    Facepalm!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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  • #61
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,217 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    Yes but for years I would have been concerned and guilt ridden that getting the vaccine had been a contributing factor. Now I know he is how he is due to being non neruotypical, I know a hell of a lot more and with the news on this I will be making sure both of mine get the MMR.

    I still think given the information I had 10 years ago I made the right call.
    Given the information I have now I am choosing to make a different call.

    Not to cause offense, but the highlighted part got my attention. It seems you were more worried about yourself than your child when making the decision. That's how your post comes accross anyway, that's not a good thing.

    Well it's good that this is out, a little less ignorance in the world is a good thing.


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