Have the Dublin 30KPH Zone removed! E-mail this councillor

neutron · 01-02-2010 09:45PM

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Councillors only understand one thing.

if they don't get voted in next time they lose out on €€€€€€€€€€

I would like to think that a well orchastrated campaign could black list this guy so bad that he would be at risk of losing his seat during the next elections.

From what I can tell, this kind of governence is the kind where the elected rulers are doing what they think is best. What of course they should be doing is representing the people who voted them in.

The Green Party in particular think they know whats best for the rest us, something similar to what the Soviet Politburo did. Just like the Soviet Politburo, I feel the Green's could be in for a big fall.

Funny thing you mention the "Green" party, they are far from green and simply evolved into FF.

I don't believe in the cult of man made climate change, there is simply far too much good peer reviewed science that amply demonstrates otherwise but I do hate the level of pollution in Dublin.

Pollution has increased in Dublin due to the artifical level of traffic congestion created by Dublin City councils anti-motorist policies.

Since diesels were promoted by the Green party car tax changes, the levels of Diesel exhaust has increased substantially, it contains more than several hundred different organic and inorganic particulates, including many chemicals that have been designated as toxic air pollutants with many mutagens and carcinogens as wells as increasing asthma and chronic bronchitis attacks in susceptible people.

Motorists cars forced to drive in low gear lead to a heavily increased level of exhaust emissions and pollution, particulary bad for cyclists inhaling pollution as they ride along side the cars, as well as being totally wasteful of fuel. Obvioulsy petrol has its own pollution issues as well.

Dublin City council has a "Green" agenda, pity they ignore it by promoting a stupid 30kph increased polution zone

Mail your councillors now as I am sure they want to hold onto their seats in the council

Guell72 · 01-02-2010 09:53PM

As i said in another thread.
Bus gate, ridiculous parking rates, now a 30kph speed limit.
We used to drive into the city at weekends. Its quicker and less hassle to go to the North now from the North side.

ArphaRima · 01-02-2010 09:57PM

30kph is just too slow.

Is anyone actually saying they're behind this plan? Is it getting a particularly harsh roasting on the airwaves? (curious as I'm abroad at the moment)
I really hope so.

-Chris- · 01-02-2010 10:18PM

fluffer wrote: »

Is anyone actually saying they're behind this plan?

Just curious, what would happen if I said I supported this plan? If I said I thought it was annoying & inconvenient, but ultimately will both save lives and make the city a more pleasant place to be in?

What would people say to me if I said that I feel that this initiative is GUARANTEED to save at least one life?
What would they say if I said that if it takes me an extra 5 minutes to cross Dublin city but I know that there's one less family who had the Gardai turn up on their doorstep with bad news this year, that I'm ok with that?

I wonder how unpopular that would make me...

Eoin · 01-02-2010 10:19PM

-Chris- wrote:

Can you elaborate further about how it's dangerous?

I tried to drive at 30km/h earlier in my estate earlier to see what it's like, and it felt that it took a disproportionate amount of my attention at the speedo to ensure I didn't go over that speed.

Anyway - no councillor is going to put their name to increasing a speed limit once it's in place. It will just take one accident or death, regardless of the speed, and that councillor will be hung out to dry as the one who wanted the speed limit increased at the cost of someone's limb or life.

Midnight_EG · 01-02-2010 10:25PM

I only go into second at 50kph =[

rx8 · 01-02-2010 10:29PM

This new 30 kph limit is a joke....as a bus driver in an automatic vehicle it's nearly impossible to drive smoothly at this speed.The Garda Gatso van was parked in Lord Edward street this morning to shoot the fish in the barrel....and also instead of getting all the lights,now you get to stop at every one of them,slowing the traffic up further.
This evening I witnessed the Lady Mayoress's Merc. (10 D 1)being driven in Lord Edward St. over 30 kph and she wasn't even in it!

I will be e-mailing my local councillor about this and letting them know how I and all of my colleagues feel about it.:mad::mad:

01-02-2010 10:32PM

rx8 wrote: »

and also instead of getting all the lights,now you get to stop at every one of them,slowing the traffic up further.

Hopefully they'll recalibrate the light timings.

-Chris- · 01-02-2010 10:35PM

eoin wrote: »

I tried to drive at 30km/h earlier in my estate earlier to see what it's like, and it felt that it took a disproportionate amount of my attention at the speedo to ensure I didn't go over that speed.

I tried it too, it's a weird feeling.

I'd expect the main effect on my driving is for me to move from doing "60ish in a 50" to "40ish in a 30".

I'll still be breaking the speed limit, but I'll just be a little bit safer.

Eoin · 01-02-2010 10:37PM

-Chris- wrote: »

I tried it too, it's a weird feeling.

I'd expect the main effect on my driving is for me to move from doing "60ish in a 50" to "40ish in a 30".

I'll still be breaking the speed limit, but I'll just be a little bit safer.

But you could find yourself off the road in months, if the Gardai speed checks are anything to go by.

ArphaRima · 01-02-2010 10:40PM

What would they say if I said that if it takes me an extra 5 minutes to cross Dublin city but I know that there's one less family who had the Gardai turn up on their doorstep with bad news this year, that I'm ok with that?

I wonder how unpopular that would make me...

Well I would say that you are missing the point of transport. The aim is to get people from one point to another. There are risks inherent in every form of transport.
Of course if you lower speeds the figures change. We need good legislation, not cheap statistic tricks.

As a motorist, motorcyclist, cyclist, pedestrian and citizen I say I would like my 5 minutes back.

-Chris- · 01-02-2010 10:40PM

eoin wrote: »

But you could find yourself off the road in months, if the Gardai speed checks are anything to go by.

If I get caught a few times, I'll adjust my driving style, but largely trust the Gardai's discretion and while I'm nearly always speeding, I've rarely been punished.

*knocks on wood*

Eoin · 01-02-2010 10:59PM

-Chris- wrote: »

If I get caught a few times, I'll adjust my driving style, but largely trust the Gardai's discretion and while I'm nearly always speeding, I've rarely been punished.

*knocks on wood*

I'm afraid too many speed checks just before a speed limit increases, or up and down the 3 lane N11 etc means I have little confidence in their judgement on where a speed check should go in order to save lives.

Luckily for me, I have little reason to drive in Dublin city centre, so this is more an annoyance than a particularly sore point for me.

neutron · 01-02-2010 11:00PM

-Chris- wrote: »

If I get caught a few times, I'll adjust my driving style, but largely trust the Gardai's discretion and while I'm nearly always speeding, I've rarely been punished.

*knocks on wood*

There is zero Garda discretion in the use, as was mis-used today at the behest of the DCC councillors, a Gatso van

It is criminalising ordinary motorists that exceed 19mph.

By the way there were six fatalities in the North west of Ireland over the weekend

There were none in Dublin

It is an abuse of Garda resources to raise revenue in this way rather than address road safety where it is needed

-Chris- · 01-02-2010 11:04PM

fluffer wrote: »

Well I would say that you are missing the point of transport. The aim is to get people from one point to another. There are risks inherent in every form of transport.
Of course if you lower speeds the figures change. We need good legislation, not cheap statistic tricks.

I understand all the various forms of transport and their appropriateness to the context in which they're used.
I hate public transport, but if I'm working in Sandyford and need to collect a cheque in town at 9am, I'm going to take the Luas.
I'm really enjoying driving into town, parking up on the edges of the hustle and bustle, and then using a Dublin Bike to get me across town in no time at all. It's sooooo stress free.

There are a lot of things that can be improved for Dublin city traffic, but I'm happier doing my little bit to minimise congestion and move myself more efficiently around town.

...and that's from someone who loves cars, who hates sitting on buses breathing other people's stale air, and who lived for several years in an apartment on Bachelor's Walk and was forced to fight the worst of rush hour traffic every morning.

fluffer wrote: »

As a motorist, motorcyclist, cyclist, pedestrian and citizen I say I would like my 5 minutes back.

If you can say hand-on-heart that you're ok reading another newspaper report about someone's dad being crushed by some random vehicle on the south quays so that you can get to your destination quicker, fair play to you.

I've missed more than a couple of films in Cineworld Parnell St. due to the bullsh1t that is Jervis St and I've queued for 40 mins on the north quays when I was only a 5 min walk from home, but if I honestly think back to all my Dublin City journeys and wonder how different they'd be if the speed limit was 70KMph, I doubt I'd see a difference.
The volume of traffic is a natural throttle to the speed of the traffic, the speed limit make damn all difference imho.

neutron · 01-02-2010 11:07PM

-Chris- wrote: »

Just curious, what would happen if I said I supported this plan? If I said I thought it was annoying & inconvenient, but ultimately will both save lives and make the city a more pleasant place to be in?

What would people say to me if I said that I feel that this initiative is GUARANTEED to save at least one life?
What would they say if I said that if it takes me an extra 5 minutes to cross Dublin city but I know that there's one less family who had the Gardai turn up on their doorstep with bad news this year, that I'm ok with that?

I wonder how unpopular that would make me...

It will not save any lives it is not correcting any problem.

Cycle lanes in Dublin are a bad joke and that is where the attention should go to increase safety, law breaking cyclist running red lights ned to be addressed by the Gardai to save lives, penalising motorists to raise revenue does not fix a problem that does not exist, but allows the Traffic engineer muppets and their councillor friends to give the appearence to be doing something.

It increases air pollution and traffic congestion both of which make Dublin less of a nice place to live, work and visit

It also has a negative effect on business, who wants the hassle of shopping in Dublin when you can drive to an urban shopping centre at a moderate speed without having to dangerously watch your speedo all of the time!

-Chris- · 01-02-2010 11:13PM

eoin wrote: »

I'm afraid too many speed checks just before a speed limit increases, or up and down the 3 lane N11 etc means I have little confidence in their judgement on where a speed check should go in order to save lives.

Luckily for me, I have little reason to drive in Dublin city centre, so this is more an annoyance than a particularly sore point for me.

I've been victim of those "fish in a barrel" speed checks too, I'm well aware that on the N11 the system is to be above the speed limit until you're near Belfield where you slow down, and then after that you drive "normally" again. It is what it is.

Any time I've been pulled over for speeding it's reinforced my faith in Garda discretion.

I drive in Dublin a lot, and I'm going to be inconvenienced by this, but I don't have a hell of a lot of sympathy for drivers who do 60kmph past a white van with blacked out windows parked on the side of the road on a clear straight. If I get caught like that, I'll deserve it too.

-Chris- · 01-02-2010 11:14PM

neutron wrote: »

There is zero Garda discretion in the use, as was mis-used today at the behest of the DCC councillors, a Gatso van

It is criminalising ordinary motorists that exceed 19mph.

By the way there were six fatalities in the North west of Ireland over the weekend

There were none in Dublin

It is an abuse of Garda resources to raise revenue in this way rather than address road safety where it is needed

Then you should spend more time lobbying the politicians and councilors in Donegal rather than Dublin. It would be far more productive if you're worried about road fatalities.

LibraMan · 01-02-2010 11:16PM

It's official - Dublin City Council are morons. A 24/7 30kph speed limit really is taking the piss!

If their agenda was really about safety, try making jaywalking an offence or fining cyclists for running red lights or cycling at night without lights.

Thank you, PC fascists, for the latest Banana Republic absurdity. If these clowns had their way we'd all be living in mud huts.

Run_to_da_hills · 01-02-2010 11:27PM

City traders will be the hardest hit.

Who could be bothered travelling into the city at snails pace to load the boot of your car when you could get the same in some satillite shopping mall without the hassle.

01-02-2010 11:32PM

-Chris- wrote: »

I understand all the various forms of transport and their appropriateness to the context in which they're used.
I hate public transport, but if I'm working in Sandyford and need to collect a cheque in town at 9am, I'm going to take the Luas.
I'm really enjoying driving into town, parking up on the edges of the hustle and bustle, and then using a Dublin Bike to get me across town in no time at all. It's sooooo stress free.

There are a lot of things that can be improved for Dublin city traffic, but I'm happier doing my little bit to minimise congestion and move myself more efficiently around town.

...and that's from someone who loves cars, who hates sitting on buses breathing other people's stale air, and who lived for several years in an apartment on Bachelor's Walk and was forced to fight the worst of rush hour traffic every morning.

If you can say hand-on-heart that you're ok reading another newspaper report about someone's dad being crushed by some random vehicle on the south quays so that you can get to your destination quicker, fair play to you.

I've missed more than a couple of films in Cineworld Parnell St. due to the bullsh1t that is Jervis St and I've queued for 40 mins on the north quays when I was only a 5 min walk from home, but if I honestly think back to all my Dublin City journeys and wonder how different they'd be if the speed limit was 70KMph, I doubt I'd see a difference.
The volume of traffic is a natural throttle to the speed of the traffic, the speed limit make damn all difference imho.

Yes, Yes, YES!! Finally someone with a brain on this idiotic, whinging, moaning, toy throwing out of pram style thread.

wexican · 01-02-2010 11:34PM

A 30kmph speed limit will only increase fuel consumption, frustrate (even more so!!) anybody who takes a private car into the city, increase taxi-fares with more time spent in traffic and hence loner time in the taxi, it will only increase pedestrian's and cyclist's propensity to dodge traffic and in fairness how the hell could any car do 50 in the city centre anyway?

I presume new speed limit signs will need to be erected at more cost to the taxpayer.
This just smacks of the DCC's inability to actively manage traffic problems. Sure the busgate made great sense too didn't it :rolleyes:

This country truly is run by morons.

01-02-2010 11:36PM

wexican wrote: »

in fairness how the hell could any car do 50 in the city centre anyway?

So what difference does it make if the limit is less than that?

ectoraige · 01-02-2010 11:37PM

neutron wrote: »

... the ridicoulous and dangerous 30KPH speed limit

celticbest wrote: »

I tried to do 30 in my car the other day and it's next to impossible.... does cruise control work in second???

Deleted User wrote: »

my cruise control wont work below 30 MILES per hour

eoin wrote: »

I tried to drive at 30km/h earlier in my estate earlier to see what it's like, and it felt that it took a disproportionate amount of my attention at the speedo to ensure I didn't go over that speed.

rx8 wrote: »

This new 30 kph limit is a joke....as a bus driver in an automatic vehicle it's nearly impossible to drive smoothly at this speed.

Oh come off it. Are you all learner drivers or something? Do you really expect people to accept that because you're such incompetent drivers you are unable to control your car at a slower speed, and therefore should be allowed drive faster instead? What sort of idiot is trying to use cruise control in dense urban areas?

What do ye do in housing estates? Bomb along at 60 and hope there aren't any kids around? What do you do in denser traffic which happens to be moving at around 30kph? Pull in to the side of the road for a few hours and wait for it to ease off?

It's a scary world out there at 30kph; somebody should send Wes Craven a script. And how damn ignorant of DCC to put you out of your comfort zone for a few days.

-Chris- · 01-02-2010 11:38PM

neutron wrote: »

It will not save any lives it is not correcting any problem.

I've had so many people walk out in front of me, cycle in front of me, push prams in front of me or fall off the kerb in front of me, that the only other option I can think of is to leave traffic to travel at the national speed limit, but put barriers on every roadside to separate the pedestrians & cyclists from the people in the trucks and SUVs

neutron wrote: »

Cycle lanes in Dublin are a bad joke and that is where the attention should go to increase safety

Absolutely agree with this - cycle lanes in Dublin need a lot of attention & improvement.

neutron wrote: »

law breaking cyclist running red lights ned to be addressed by the Gardai to save lives

Definitely, and few right-minded cyclists would disagree with you. Speed limits and enforcement of rules of the road are separate issues though.

neutron wrote: »

penalising motorists to raise revenue does not fix a problem that does not exist, but allows the Traffic engineer muppets and their councillor friends to give the appearence to be doing something.

Fair point, I wish there were other metrics we could use to measure improvements in road safety.

neutron wrote: »

It increases air pollution and traffic congestion both of which make Dublin less of a nice place to live, work and visit

I'm not sure how it increases air pollution - it takes more energy to accelerate & brake than it does to hold a steady speed. If you have an average speed of 25KMph in Dublin and a max speed of 30KMph it stands to reason that there's less accelerating and braking than if the max speed is 50KMph
(btw, I'm open to correction by proper scientists...

)

neutron wrote: »

It also has a negative effect on business, who wants the hassle of shopping in Dublin when you can drive to an urban shopping centre at a moderate speed without having to dangerously watch your speedo all of the time!

I have no problem with it. I prefer the ambiance of Dublin over Blanchardstown or Dundrum. I'd go to Dundrum to buy things, I'll go to Dublin to shop. I'll go on the internet to save money.

I reckon you'd have a pretty hard time proving to me that driving to Liffey Valley on a Saturday at 100KMph, and then circling the carpark for 20 mins before having to park frustratingly far from the entrance and then walking around an overcrowded soulless shopping centre is conclusively better than driving into Dublin, parking in a multi-storey on the outskirts of the mayhem and then walking around our historic city that has every shop you could need, decent coffee shops, buskers, characters and personality.

Midnight_EG · 01-02-2010 11:39PM

ectoraige wrote: »

And how damn ignorant of DCC to put you out of your comfort zone for a few days.

Know something we don't?

ectoraige · 01-02-2010 11:40PM

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Councillors only understand one thing.

if they don't get voted in next time they lose out on €€€€€€€€€€

The Green Party in particular [...] I feel the Green's could be in for a big fall.

You do know there aren't any Green Party councillors on DCC, right? That it's dominated by Labour and Fine Gael, yeah? Just checking.

ectoraige · 01-02-2010 11:41PM

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Know something we don't?

Yeah, that if you're a decent driver, it'll only take a few days to adapt to the new road conditions.

ArphaRima · 01-02-2010 11:41PM

If you can say hand-on-heart that you're ok reading another newspaper report about someone's dad being crushed by some random vehicle on the south quays so that you can get to your destination quicker, fair play to you.

I am saying exactly that.
In fact I want to scream that. Otherwise we would drive on EVERY road at 30kph. Everywhere. In all conditions. We already make the decision on what risk is acceptable (ie 120kph on motorways). And the consequences.
I say 30kph is too low. Explain to me why it will make a perceptible difference. I only see it as something that reinforces my lack of faith in Irish leadership circles.

We do a driving test to prove our ability within the law to perceive road conditions and drive accordingly. Let us.

The volume of traffic is a natural throttle to the speed of the traffic, the speed limit make damn all difference imho.

Yes but I would like the laws of my land to be reasonable. I dont think this is.
We have just declared that driving at 19mph is Illegal under any circumstance for a good portion of our city.

I believe this to be short term politics for some random councillor to make his mark. I sincerely hope the people of Dublin react accordingly in the next election.

Thank god I have a UK licence.
And I did email the councillor. I recommend you all do.

wexican · 01-02-2010 11:44PM

Deleted User wrote: »

So what difference does it make if the limit is less than that?

Well obvious answer to that is the fact the limit applies even in the dead of night when there is but a small percentage of the vehicles on the city streets in comparison to rush hour.

Have the Dublin 30KPH Zone removed! E-mail this councillor

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