Patriotism in poor areas

darkman2 · 31-01-2010 10:31PM #1

Why is it that working class or poor people often openly show an element of patriotism in their areas (i.e with tri colours hanging out windows during football matches) that rich people don't in their areas?

Im curious because you would think people living in working class areas or sink estates would have far more reason not to come across all misty eyed and patriotic then rich people. Logically you would think they hate the country. But that does not seem to be the way it is. Rich people, logically, should have all the reason in the world to be patriotic considering the lifestyle the country affords them. The opposite seems to be the case. In fact rich people show their patriotism by some of them not paying tax here.

For example a republican or nationalist ballad does not look out of place in a working class pub - but it's generally frowned upon in more upper establishments.

It's the same in every country. In the US, for example, poor areas often have American flags all over the place esspecially in small towns. They are poor but proud of their country. It seems a bit strange and contradictory.

ronnie3585 · 31-01-2010 10:34PM

The great unwashed get confused easily and need to be reminded where they live by a system of simple colours.

Overheal · 31-01-2010 10:34PM

The Richer you get the higher tax you pay....

Aidric · 31-01-2010 10:37PM

They are giving thanks for the generous social welfare afforded to them.

ejmaztec · 31-01-2010 10:38PM

They hang the flags out to remind everyone that they exist and that they haven't got a pot to piss in.

31-01-2010 10:38PM

IN the richer areas, the wives won't allow their men to put up flags etc, it lowers the tone!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 31-01-2010 10:39PM

Poor -> uneducated -> ignorant

Maybe the above has some sort of relationship?

Red Hand · 31-01-2010 10:39PM

I agree that its pretty ironic. Those that own jacksh*t have flags proclaiming their love for the land that they don't own.

DazMarz · 31-01-2010 10:44PM

It's the same argument Michael Moore made in Fahrenheit 9/11; of all the people who volunteer to serve their country in the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, the Marines etc., of all the people who are patriotic and love their country, of all of those who would stand up first and lay their lives down for their country... it is always the most downtrodden, the poorest, the most vulnerable (financially anyway) people that will do it. (This is in the USA)

I'm not sure what it is, but it is a strange phenomenon.

Mrmoe · 31-01-2010 10:48PM

Maybe it is because the wealthy in this country gained their wealth by raping and exploiting the country. They have no love for their country. However, it is not all wealthy people who are like this in the same way the people from disadvantaged areas are not all patriotic.

Tigger · 31-01-2010 10:49PM

i show my patriotisim by contributing to the country as a tax payer and employer

different strokes etc

Dunjohn · 31-01-2010 10:51PM

It may be the idea that the rich can afford "better." They don't need to listen to nationalist songs and ballads, which are community-derived and tend to emphasise an image of "we're in this together no matter what." They may not be as thankful for what they have because they can always afford a new one. And I don't mean this in a resentful or insulting way; it may simply be subconscious.

I don't know, but it's an interesting thought.

Iwasfrozen · 31-01-2010 10:51PM

Tigger wrote: »

i show my patriotisim by contributing to the country as a tax payer and employer

different strokes etc

That's not patriotism, your tax money is only worth something because your country says it is. Laying your life on the line in a war is patriotism.

partyatmygaff · 31-01-2010 10:55PM

I'm guessing it's probably related to the military. In the past, it was usually the poor working class men who would join the Army and with that they became patriotic and maybe even more patriotic after retiring from service. As time passed patriotism became more and more a trait of working class people and with that less and less middle and upper class people showed patriotism so as to distance themselves from the working class.

Dunno, that's what I think it might be anyways.

Joey the lips · 31-01-2010 10:56PM

imo the same reason they wear nike and adidas. Its seen to look cool.

Mind you it could be more a fact that they are republician. A socialist tends to live in a working class area rather than blackrock or killiney....

imo!

My name is URL · 31-01-2010 10:57PM

Define rich.. I've seen flags outside homes of people that I'd consider rich, to support local GAA teams etc..

Maybe it's just more noticable because poorer people generally live in denser areas

31-01-2010 10:57PM

Marie Cold Registrar wrote: »

Poor -> uneducated -> ignorant

Maybe the above has some sort of relationship?

Poorer people tend to be a leaderless tribe that is looking for something to stand behind, fortunately in a stable environment it tends to be the local/national sports team.

Richer people tend to lead themselves so don't need to carry flags etc, they find a leaderless tribe somewher and tell them to wave the flag.

Eoin · 31-01-2010 11:02PM

DazMarz wrote: »

It's the same argument Michael Moore made in Fahrenheit 9/11; of all the people who volunteer to serve their country in the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, the Marines etc., of all the people who are patriotic and love their country, of all of those who would stand up first and lay their lives down for their country... it is always the most downtrodden, the poorest, the most vulnerable (financially anyway) people that will do it. (This is in the USA)

I'm not sure what it is, but it is a strange phenomenon.

It's not that strange though - the recruiters target young, impressionable and poor people who have f-ck all options available to them in life. Also, Michael Moore is full of crap, so you have to take everything he says with a pinch of salt.

Hank_Jones · 31-01-2010 11:03PM

I don't, and I would imagine that the majority of people wouldn't go around singing nationalistic ballads as it shows support for terrorism.

The reason that people in better class areas don't put up flags etc, is because they have more sense than that.

Plus the fact that the commoners do it can't help, as in they don't want to be associated with being common.

biko · 31-01-2010 11:07PM

Because rich people feel closer to rich people in other countries than to their working-class countrymen.

Thomas828 · 31-01-2010 11:11PM

The poorest Protestant areas of Belfast and the rest of Northern Ireland are where you'll find the most hardened sectarian bigots. They hang out their Union Jacks and blue, white and red bunting all year round, not just on the 12th of July, to make sure everybody knows WE'RE BRITISH. But the joke is on them because nobody in Britain gives a damn about them.

Latchy · 31-01-2010 11:16PM

It's pretty much the same when the world cup soccer , rugby and olympics are staged were millions of people , poor and middle class wear the shirt and fly the flag of their nation .Ireland is no different in that respect .

Thomas828 wrote: »

The poorest Protestant areas of Belfast and the rest of Northern Ireland are where you'll find the most hardened sectarian bigots. They hang out their Union Jacks and blue, white and red bunting all year round, not just on the 12th of July, to make sure everybody knows WE'RE BRITISH. But the joke is on them because nobody in Britain gives a damn about them.

And that is the simple but ironic truth of the matter

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Laying your life on the line in a war is patriotism.

Even when you know that back home apart from your family and friends, many wont care either way

m@cc@ · 31-01-2010 11:17PM

darkman2 wrote: »

Why is it that working class or poor people often openly show an element of patriotism in their areas (i.e with tri colours hanging out windows during football matches) that rich people don't in their areas?

Im curious because you would think people living in working class areas or sink estates would have far more reason not to come across all misty eyed and patriotic then rich people. Logically you would think they hate the country. But that does not seem to be the way it is. Rich people, logically, should have all the reason in the world to be patriotic considering the lifestyle the country affords them. The opposite seems to be the case. In fact rich people show their patriotism by some of them not paying tax here.

For example a republican or nationalist ballad does not look out of place in a working class pub - but it's generally frowned upon in more upper establishments.

It's the same in every country. In the US, for example, poor areas often have American flags all over the place esspecially in small towns. They are poor but proud of their country. It seems a bit strange and contradictory.

They have **** all else to be proud of.

cbreeze · 31-01-2010 11:21PM

DazMarz wrote: »

It's the same argument Michael Moore made in Fahrenheit 9/11; of all the people who volunteer to serve their country in the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, the Marines etc., of all the people who are patriotic and love their country, of all of those who would stand up first and lay their lives down for their country... it is always the most downtrodden, the poorest, the most vulnerable (financially anyway) people that will do it. (This is in the USA)

I'm not sure what it is, but it is a strange phenomenon.

same as when irish people joined up in the 1st world war - the army fed you and clothed you.

TheZohanS · 31-01-2010 11:24PM

Marie Cold Registrar wrote: »

Poor -> uneducated -> ignorant

Maybe the above has some sort of relationship?

I notice your sig says you're looking for work in anything in Dublin.

Can only assume you're looking for work because you'd like more money than the dole gives you, so it might be correct in saying that you are poor or tight for cash...so does that mean that you're uneducated or ignorant too? I wouldn't think so.

There are lots of educated people who can't find work living on the breadline and to call them uneducated or ignorant because of that is silly.

Abi · 31-01-2010 11:38PM

This is another northside / southside dressed up in trolls clothing OP.

First book? aw.

Iwasfrozen · 31-01-2010 11:39PM

Latchy wrote: »

Even when you know that back home apart from your family and friends, many wont care either way

Maybe not in the recent smaller wars, but in a war where the future of your country is threatened, such as WWII. I think you'll find many people do care.

Liam Byrne · 31-01-2010 11:43PM

Abigayle wrote: »

This is another northside / southside dressed up in trolls clothing OP.

First book? aw.

Northside and southside of what ?

mike65 · 31-01-2010 11:43PM

The "non-workng class" to be more accurate (and white taxi drivers!) use patriotism as an excuse to get drunk, smash a richer persons cars mirrors off and beat the wife/girlfriend. If they were truely patriotic they'd get a job and pay tax.

/leaves thread...and country.

31-01-2010 11:44PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Northside and southside of what ?

A fence that's standing on an east - west line!

Red Hand · 31-01-2010 11:45PM

TheZohan wrote: »

I notice your sig says you're looking for work in anything in Dublin.

Can only assume you're looking for work because you'd like more money than the dole gives you, so it might be correct in saying that you are poor or tight for cash...so does that mean that you're uneducated or ignorant too? I wouldn't think so.

There are lots of educated people who can't find work living on the breadline and to call them uneducated or ignorant because of that is silly.

Methinks Daddy tides him/her over until Uncle Richard gets him/her that nice office job.:pac:

Patriotism in poor areas

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