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What Happens When We Die?

24

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,214 ✭✭✭wylo


    I think we are just part of a process that is the universe. I think human intelligence has gotten so high that it leaves us trying to think of things that cannot be explained. Like what happens after we die, what started the big bang, what is beyond the universe? Nothing?
    I don't believe in god ,but I am not atheist, apparently if your an atheist you cannot even speculate anything beyond what we see in front of us. I refuse to be like that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,033 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    your either fried or go 6 feet under

    EVENFLOW



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    wylo wrote: »
    I don't believe in god ,but I am not atheist, apparently if your an atheist you cannot even speculate anything beyond what we see in front of us. I refuse to be like that.

    I hate to be the one to break it to you, atheists just have a lack of a belief in a god. If you want to discount it, you may want to find out what it is you are discounting. :P


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 173 ✭✭somethingwitty


    You trip balls!! DMT! :P I hear its a very pleasurable experience:pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭Mrmoe


    How do you know that you are not dead right now?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭Columbia


    My personal opinion is that it is as simple as you reverting to your pre-birth stage, i.e. nothingness.

    Consciousness is a function (almost an illusion) created by the most sophisticated and powerful machine in the world, your brain, and nothing else. It comes from perception of everything around you, and the sythesisation of this perception with conscious and proactive thought. We have no existence whatever beyond the electrical signals of our brains, and I'm quite firm on that. As soon as those stop, any existence we have peters out with it, leaving some residue (the body).

    Death itself holds no fear for me, I did a load of death tests online and they all reckon I'll live until at least 84 :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,264 ✭✭✭rednik


    Mrmoe wrote: »
    How do you know that you are not dead right now?

    Just ran up to the GP and he declared me ALIVE. (Phew)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12 CaptainCrunch


    Hank_Jones wrote: »

    Personally I always thought that when we die, we end up in a big long queue, in somewhere similar to the dole office.
    Of course the line is never going anywhere because it's a public run office, as opossed to private.
    So the remainder of existence is spent in pretty much the same spot, looking around and complaining about how the line is not going anywhere.

    Sounds like life.


  • Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    My biggest fear is that when you die your mind is still concious....so your just alone with the thoughts for eternity!!!!or until your eaten all up!Thats just a fear though personally I believe in God.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭MaybeLogic


    I'm a firm believer in 'Frisbeetarianism', myself.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,969 ✭✭✭robby^5


    Wibbs wrote: »
    I dont think the "it'll be the same as before you were born" holds that much logical water.

    Both meet the basic criteria of a person not existing.

    We have no reason to believe that any part of our consciousness will be somehow re-absorbed into the universe, that's just wishful thinking based on the sentiment that consciousness is not finite.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭Dean820


    If I end up in a dole-like queue after I die and have to stay there for eternity, I'll re-kill myself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,647 ✭✭✭✭Fago!


    Unlike you peasants, I can't die.

    I have a deal with god.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 478 ✭✭CokaColumbo


    Worms will snack on your eye balls and your spirit may possibly pass on to another existence.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    I had an NDE, and Magnum lady I'd love to hear your NDE.

    I believe that when the body dies we move from this dimension to one where there is no physicality, where we exist as streams of energy. The body dying is jut like casting a jacket off, we're still alive.

    Energy cannot be destroyed, it only changes from one form to another.

    Ive read alot of NDE's as I'm very interested in the subject, and alot of them say that we chose to leave our real home and come here to learn, and that is why many people feel that there is something missing from their lives that they can't put their finger on.

    Believe it or not, they're a fascinating read.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    We wake up in Africa, new life but much tougher!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭Dean820


    Well if you can't remember anything when being knocked after a punch, how can you remember anything when you die? It makes no sense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,891 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    Interesting OP asked this because I was just reading this article from TIME Magazine today:

    http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1955636,00.html


    Q & A
    Is There Life After Death?
    By Laura Fitzpatrick Friday, Jan. 22, 2010

    Is there life after death? Theologians can debate all they want, but radiation oncologist Dr. Jeffrey Long argues that if you look at the scientific evidence, the answer is unequivocally yes. Drawing on a decade's worth of research on near-death experiences — work that includes cataloguing the stories of some 1,600 people who have gone through them — he makes the case for that controversial conclusion in a new book, Evidence of the Afterlife. Medicine, Long says, cannot account for the consistencies in the accounts reported by people all over the world. He talked to TIME about the nature of near-death experience, the intersection between religion and science and the Oprah effect. (See how you can change your genes.)

    Medically speaking, what is a near-death experience?
    A near-death experience has two components. The person has to be near death, which means physically compromised so severely that permanent death would occur if they did not improve: they're unconscious, or often clinically dead, with an absence of heartbeat and breathing. The second component [is that] at the time they're having a close brush with death, they have an experience. [It is] generally lucid [and] highly organized. (See the year in health 2009.)

    Q. How do you respond to skeptics who say there must be some biological or physiological basis for that kind of experience, which you say in the book is medically inexplicable?
    A. There have been over 20 alternative, skeptical "explanations" for near-death experience. The reason is very clear: no one or several skeptical explanations make sense, even to the skeptics themselves. Or [else ]there wouldn't be so many.

    Q. You say there's less skepticism about near-death experiences than there used to be, as well as more awareness. Why is that?
    A. Literally hundreds of scholarly articles have been written over the last 35 years about near-death experience. In addition to that, the media continues to present [evidence of] near-death experience. Hundreds of thousands of pages a month are read on our website, NDERF.org.

    Q. In the book you say that some critics argue that there's an "Oprah effect": that a lot of people who have had near-death experiences have heard about them elsewhere first. How do you account for that in your research?
    A. We post to the website the near-death experience exactly as it was shared with us. Given the fact that every month 300,000 pages are read [by] over 40,000 unique visitors from all around the world, the chances of a copycat account from any media source not being picked up by any one of those people is exceedingly remote. Our quality-assurance check is the enormous visibility and the enormous number of visitors. (See what happens when we die.)

    Q. You say this research has affected you a lot on a personal level. How?
    A. I'm a physician who fights cancer. In spite of our best efforts, not everybody is going to be cured. My absolute understanding that there is an afterlife for all of us — and a wonderful afterlife — helps me face cancer, this terribly frightening and threatening disease, with more courage than I've ever faced it with before. I can be a better physician for my patients.

    Q. You say we can draw on near-death experiences to reach conclusions about life after actual death. But is that comparing apples and oranges?
    A. Scientifically speaking, interviewing people that have permanently died is challenging. Obviously, given that impossibility, we have to do the next best thing. If these people have no brain function, like you have in a cardiac arrest, I think that is the best, closest model we're going to have to study whether or not conscious experience can occur apart from the physical brain. The research shows the overwhelming answer is absolutely yes.

    Q. You raise the idea that your work could have profound implications for religion. But is whether there is life after death really a scientific question, or a theological one?
    A. I think we have an interesting blend. [This research] directly addresses what religions have been telling us for millenniums to accept on faith: that there is an afterlife, that there is some order and purpose to this universe, that there's some reason and purpose for us being here in earthly life. We're finding verification, if you will, for what so many religions have been saying. It's an important step towards bringing science and religion together.

    Q. Is there any aspect of human experience that you don't think science can touch?
    A. Oh, absolutely. What happens after permanent death — after we're no longer able to interview people — is an absolute. To that extent, the work I do may always require some element of faith. But by the time you look at [the] evidence, the amount of faith you need to have [to believe in] life after death is substantially reduced.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,214 ✭✭✭wylo


    Im an NDE skeptic. Im not saying that people are not experiencing those feelings when they are 'dying' but I just believe that they are a result of a lack of oxygen to the brain, a hallucination that is so real that you believe you truly experienced it.

    Ever try ketamine? Why is it that you can experience a 'near death experience' on that, because you are off your rocker on drugs thats why.


    http://www.near-death.com/experiences/paranormal12.html

    http://www.mindspring.com/~scottr/nde/_ketamine.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,217 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    suitseir wrote: »
    But maybe if you believe that there is something else, like re-incarnation, a spiritual after life, then perhaps that is what will happen to those who believe in an after life.......

    That would be nice, but I don't think we are powerful enough to create a place for us to exist after we are dead.

    It is FASHIONABLE to believe in nothing..........[/QUOTE]

    Fashionable???
    a lot of non believers on this thread.

    And? Got a problem with that?
    magnumlady wrote: »
    Lots of people you don't know or can't stand turn up for a feed.

    Seriously I had a near death experience. I know you will all mock. So I know there is something after death.

    Tell us what happened and how did this change your mind (if you thought otherwise)?
    wylo wrote: »
    I don't believe in god ,but I am not atheist, apparently if your an atheist you cannot even speculate anything beyond what we see in front of us. I refuse to be like that.

    Where the hell do you get that crap from???

    Definition of Atheism: a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
    robby^5 wrote: »
    We have no reason to believe that any part of our consciousness will be somehow re-absorbed into the universe, that's just wishful thinking based on the sentiment that consciousness is not finite.

    The great thing is that nobody is right or wrong... nobody can prove what happens after death. It scares the shít out of most of us. Our inability to understand what happens, forces us to create bullshít stories about gods, heaven and hell... This gives us peace of mind, we can progress as a species without worrying about death and the aftermath. Religion is needed for our species to survive. Most of mankind are thick as ditch water, too ignorant to accept that we simply cannot understand what happens after death, at least for now.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,214 ✭✭✭wylo



    Where the hell do you get that crap from???

    Definition of Atheism: a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
    I got it from the Atheism forum on boards when people told me I was agnostic not an atheist. It put me off, it seemed to me there were 'rules' to be being an atheist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭Mr Trade In


    I am thinking reincarnation;if you have been bad, a tapeworm in Mary Harney.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,217 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    wylo wrote: »
    I got it from the Atheism forum on boards when people told me I was agnostic not an atheist. It put me off, it seemed to me there were 'rules' to be being an atheist.

    From boards? Well no wonder... I am an Athiest, but I have a fairly open mind. Like religions, there are rules to being an athiest. Well more like guidelines. You dismiss any gods, outright don't believe in any, then you are an athiest. If you are unsure, then you are agnostic :) FFS, they even have agnostic athiest... how anybody can make sense out of that is beyond me... load of horse shít to be honest. Anyway, ignore the tossers giving you crap about it ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,626 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    They stick cotton wool in your bum to stop anything leaking out, unless being dead gets better after that I don't really want to know


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,956 ✭✭✭consultech


    We all get mansions.

    (only a select few people will get this joke)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭Sea Sharp


    You just stop being something. You'll be forgotton about after 50 years. There's no heaven/hell, just nothing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 36,634 ✭✭✭✭Ruu_Old


    Hang on, I'll try it and be right back!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,791 ✭✭✭electrogrimey


    Hank_Jones wrote: »
    What happens when we die?

    You crap your pants.

    /South Park.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    robby^5 wrote: »
    Both meet the basic criteria of a person not existing.
    Only on an arguably basic level. Information at a very very low level is not lost. If you liquidise a person you obviously kill them, but the unique information that made up that person is not lost, but simply dissipated. In theory if you had enough storage space and could map the person at the quantum level you could rebuild them, exactly as before. Now before you were born that info wasn't you yet. There was no template,unless you have a time machine handy. So there is a difference between before you were born and after you die. In a very roughly similar way, you decide to paint a picture. That picture could not have existed before you were born. The information through you would not have existed, yet walk into an art gallery and look at a Rembrandt.
    We have no reason to believe that any part of our consciousness will be somehow re-absorbed into the universe, that's just wishful thinking based on the sentiment that consciousness is not finite.
    Oh for sure, but we barely know what consciousness is, so ascribing finite or infinite is hard to call. We may assume its finite, but beyond that we have to leave to the mystics for the moment.
    Columbia wrote: »
    My personal opinion is that it is as simple as you reverting to your pre-birth stage, i.e. nothingness.

    Consciousness is a function (almost an illusion) created by the most sophisticated and powerful machine in the world, your brain, and nothing else. It comes from perception of everything around you, and the sythesisation of this perception with conscious and proactive thought. We have no existence whatever beyond the electrical signals of our brains, and I'm quite firm on that. As soon as those stop, any existence we have peters out with it, leaving some residue (the body).
    Yes but how is that consciousness created? consciousness is one of the most amazing things in the universe that we know of. Like you said along with the brain that houses it. But we are still in the dark about what "it" is. There are even some theories its not all contained in the brain and its more spread out across the body(which may explain some reports of psychological changes in transplant patients).

    I have had a NDE/OOB thingy. I nearly pegged it at the time. I had no medication in my body at the point it happened. I have no frames of reference for what it was. I can say it certainly didnt feel subjectively like a dream. There was nothing dreamlike about it. More vivid than the current me typing this and talking to ye typing back. What I will say is that it wasnt all sweetness and light. Being "disembodied" is a very strange and scary feeling. At first anyway. You do realise how much we forget we're whole bodies as well as minds. Most of us dont be still enough to feel our bodies. Then again we do all the time, just below the conscious level. Try the concept of moving without a body, or seeing without eyes. Very bloody freaky. Funny though you pass that point soon enough.

    I will also say that I have imbibed various chemicals in my youth. Mostly of the kind that would trigger similar. Including some pretty heavy shamanistic stuff. And yes I wigged out and did have feelings of being disembodied, but again obviously subjectively, this felt very different. My rationality would explain that by saying the chemicals in the brain under stress are stronger and a brain generated "trip" is going to be wilder. It's very hard to say when subjectively looking at it. I didnt see God BTW. If God exists it may have been saying "oh no, feck off you wally, dont want to deal with you yet". :D I did feel other "things" around me though. I couldnt describe them as people though.

    It was worth the price of the ticket though the trigger wasnt :D

    What does interest me is if it is the brain generating this, why? Evolution would hardly build this in as the organism is dying and therefore "useless" to the gene etc. If it is simply a failing of the dying brain again it seems very precise and very consistent. Hard to call. Interesting nonetheless. :)

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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