how many reservists/pdf play airsoft?

Gatling · 23-01-2010 04:40AM

Grrrrrrrrrrrrr yes,
had a serving member of the PDF ring me about it( IAA cap on ) not a happy camper i can tell ya , all sites know its illeagal and should know better than to allow it on site

thermo · 23-01-2010 04:50AM

Gatling wrote: »

Grrrrrrrrrrrrr yes,
had a serving member of the PDF ring me about it( IAA cap on ) not a happy camper i can tell ya , all sites know its illeagal and should know better than to allow it on site

sure it happens every weekend across the country! Was out last Sunday and saw a few guys in the issued kit,,,,,,,,,

Gatling · 23-01-2010 05:00AM

if there serving id love to see them identified and reported to there CO's .
if there joe civilian then the sites have a standard to uphold either way
and turn players away who wear it

Masada · 23-01-2010 12:52PM

What qualifies a site to be able to positively identify Irish DPM? I've often been mistaken for wearing it when using Slovenian and French F2.,

I havent seen this article yet myself, was it in Ireland or UK?

thermo · 23-01-2010 01:08PM

The team are based in limirick

thebillynator · 23-01-2010 01:17PM

yeah i know a guy who has it hes about 14 i asked him where he got it nd he said off of someone in the army
*it is really nice camo though*

Gatling · 23-01-2010 04:17PM

Masada wrote: »

What qualifies a site to be able to positively identify Irish DPM? I've often been mistaken for wearing it when using Slovenian and French F2.,

I havent seen this article yet myself, was it in Ireland or UK?

to be honest i was hoping it was a mistake so i picked up a copy and its irish dpm being worn by a few people in the photo

Masada · 23-01-2010 06:27PM

Oh i dont dispute that, i have seen a few people do it myself.
its the turning players away when you think their using it is the difficult part. you would need to know the camo's well to say with any security that they are for sure, Irish DPM.

I don't really know why there's such a big deal made about it all the time though, there's plenty of people outside of airsoft (and before airsoft even existed in this country) that are happy to wear it and not give a sh1t. These threads also give them impression that DPM clad players are rampant out there when in actual fact its only on rare occasion you'll actually see someone using it. We should leave the authorities to do their own jobs in my opinion,

Slovenian,
http://www.soldiermod.com/volume-2/images/articles/programmes/slovenia/night-vision-goggles.jpg

Irish Soldier,
http://image53.webshots.com/153/9/15/82/2580915820086443500QoLTwI_ph.jpg

French, (Walking away as usual...)
http://www.corsophotos.com/images/French_Army.JPG

Rogue-Trooper · 23-01-2010 06:43PM

thermo wrote: »

Did anybody see in this months AI the pic of the Irish team, and half them are wearing Irish cammo uniforms?

Here is a scan of the pic (sorry, it spans 2 pages so there is a big crease on the photo!). Looks like 4 of them are wearing Irish DPM to me. The guy on the RHS is hardly a current serving member with that haircut!:rolleyes:

Stercus Accidit · 23-01-2010 06:53PM

Its up to sites to enforce I suppose, once that happens the message will get out that this is not ok.

While it really is the individuals responsibility, we all know that only works until the other guy is wearing it why can't I is dealt with.

Just like hot guns or cheating are the individuals responsibility, if the sites root this out the individual will cop on.

Maybe an IAA memo to all affiliated sites would help, I don't know if preventing the use of restricted irish dpm is part of the membership requirements specifically.

MacAonghusa · 23-01-2010 08:37PM

I don't think wearing an item of Irish DPM actually is illegal (to the best of my knowledge).
I asked the DF Press Officer before and his answer was less than clear and basically amounted to it being illegal to "impersonate DF personnel".

I pretty sure it is illegal to sell the gear here but not sure about wearing it. I often see people wear the smock around town.

gerrowadat · 23-01-2010 08:42PM

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Its up to sites to enforce I suppose, once that happens the message will get out that this is not ok.

While it really is the individuals responsibility, we all know that only works until the other guy is wearing it why can't I is dealt with.

Just like hot guns or cheating are the individuals responsibility, if the sites root this out the individual will cop on.

Maybe an IAA memo to all affiliated sites would help, I don't know if preventing the use of restricted irish dpm is part of the membership requirements specifically.

It's covered under 'not breaking the law'.

MacAonghusa · 23-01-2010 08:43PM

From the horses mouth, so to speak:

Section 258 (b) of the Defence Act s (1954 – 1998, as amended) states:

“Any person who falsely represents himself [/ herself] to any military or civil authority to belong to, or to be, or to have been a particular member of the Defence Forces, shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding [euro] 250.00 or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding three months.”

"Further to that, under Defence Forces Regulations when a soldier discharges from the Defence Forces they must hand in all items of uniform and are not permitted to pass on, distribute, sell or wear that uniform. It is also an offence for a member of the Defence Forces to sell items of issue uniform."

thermo · 23-01-2010 08:47PM

There is 7 out of the 14 in that pic wearing bits of the army issue kit.

gerrowadat · 23-01-2010 09:02PM

MacAonghusa wrote: »

From the horses mouth, so to speak:

Section 258 (b) of the Defence Act s (1954 – 1998, as amended) states:

“Any person who falsely represents himself [/ herself] to any military or civil authority to belong to, or to be, or to have been a particular member of the Defence Forces, shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding [euro] 250.00 or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding three months.”

"Further to that, under Defence Forces Regulations when a soldier discharges from the Defence Forces they must hand in all items of uniform and are not permitted to pass on, distribute, sell or wear that uniform. It is also an offence for a member of the Defence Forces to sell items of issue uniform."

There's also a stern bollocking in it for you if you're caught wearing it off-duty. It's not 'illegal' as such, but it was enough of an issue that the DF contacted the IAA last year to have a friendly chat. I suspect that making an enemy of the DF is the last thing airsoft wants to do.

MacAonghusa · 23-01-2010 09:08PM

gerrowadat wrote: »

There's also a stern bollocking in it for you if you're caught wearing it off-duty. It's not 'illegal' as such, but it was enough of an issue that the DF contacted the IAA last year to have a friendly chat. I suspect that making an enemy of the DF is the last thing airsoft wants to do.

They can't give you a bollocking unless you're DF personnel.
Mind you I don't think airsofters should wear the DF gear anyway (at least not the smock).

iceage · 23-01-2010 09:13PM

Nice name and shame there guys..well done. you've managed to plaster their faces on a public Forum, named the team and "tarred" them with the illigal DPM brush. And as for the original post asking how many of the your RDF/PDF play Airsoft....this is really going to welcome them back to the sport isn't it.

This has just wandered off on a witchhunt for heads sporting Irish DPM at sites. End of the day its down to the sites really to police this, don't you agree?

Stercus Accidit · 23-01-2010 09:15PM

gerrowadat wrote: »

It's covered under 'not breaking the law'.

I imagine it is, but how many people need to be told "rtfm", mentioning it specifically sorts the issue.

iceage · 23-01-2010 09:18PM

MacAonghusa wrote: »

They can't give you a bollocking unless you're DF personnel.
Mind you I don't think airsofters should wear the DF gear anyway (at least not the smock).

If your a serving member of the DF, the wearing of your uniform off duty for no reason, especially charging around a field is a no-no...will find yourself at the wrong end of a bollocking.

Rogue-Trooper · 23-01-2010 09:24PM

iceage wrote: »

Nice name and shame there guys..well done. you've managed to plaster their faces on a public Forum, named the team and "tarred" them with the illigal DPM brush.

With respect iceage, they did send a high-resolution picture of themselves wearing the gear, with their team name, to the largest worldwide airsoft publication for inclusion in their gallery.

MacAonghusa · 23-01-2010 09:25PM

iceage wrote: »

If your a serving member of the DF, the wearing of your uniform off duty for no reason, especially charging around a field is a no-no...will find yourself at the wrong end of a bollocking.

Er, yeah. I didn't dispute that.

iceage · 23-01-2010 09:48PM

Rogue-Trooper wrote: »

With respect iceage, they did send a high-resolution picture of themselves wearing the gear, with their team name, to the largest worldwide airsoft publication for inclusion in their gallery.

Forgive my tardy reply, I'm having major comms issues, Eircom strikes again..

Thanks for that Rogue, I appreciate that and these guys are obviously not the sharpest knives in the drawer, either that or they don't give a sh!t about the public view of the sport or the rules. Airsoft Mags are generally viewed by Airsofter heads only though..this is the world wide now we're talking about and again, this can cast Airsoft in Ireland in a very poor light with both Joe public, the powers that be..and now also with the DF...Again!!

Sites need to clamp down on this kind of behaviour, and frankly the IAA need to start kicking ass on it, revoke the odd membership and get really these guys attention.

gerrowadat · 23-01-2010 10:28PM

MacAonghusa wrote: »

They can't give you a bollocking unless you're DF personnel.

Well, you. if you're not personnell, then you -are- breaking the law :-)

Lemming · 23-01-2010 10:47PM

gerrowadat wrote: »

Well, you. if you're not personnell, then you -are- breaking the law :-)

As I understand it (so this is open to correction) from previous conversations that have been had on this subject (ad nauesum); one of the following two scenarios will occur:

1. You are DF personnel. It's the wrong end of a slapping for you - the result may vary depending on your CO and how much of an example the DF wish to make of you (or not) at the given moment.

2. You're not DF personnel. It'll be a case of "We're taking that back since it's not yours, it's ours" followed swiftly by "and here's the Gardai to ask you a few questions on the stolen items we've just taken back off you".

If I were in the army, I would go out of my way to a) hide the fact I like airsoft, and b) make sure I do not get singled out by my superiors as somebody to "watch" for all the wrong reasons. Being somebody subject to the law of the land, It's a no-brainer that I do not wish to end up dealing with the Gardai for the wrong reasons. So I'll take neither option if it's all the same. And I can't udnerstand why somebody would wish to risk the above (assuming it's correct) over a game.

gerrowadat · 23-01-2010 10:54PM

Well put, Lemming. So, while it might not be black-and-white 'illegal' in all cases, it's still a stupid idea (although that doesn't stop a lot of airsofters for some reason).

MacAonghusa · 23-01-2010 10:55PM

gerrowadat wrote: »

Well, you. if you're not personnell, then you -are- breaking the law :-)

edit: isn't that a contradiction of your previous post "It's not 'illegal' as such"

gerrowadat · 23-01-2010 11:04PM

MacAonghusa wrote: »

edit: isn't that a contradiction of your previous post "It's not 'illegal' as such"

It's not illegal if you're in the DF, it's just against regs.

It is illegal if you're not in the DF, since you're impersonating at worst, and handling stolen property (i.e. you don't have the minister for defence's permission to take it) at best.

Shiva · 23-01-2010 11:05PM

MacAonghusa wrote: »

What law specifically?

I don't know the specific laws or DF regulations, but if you think about it logically...

If you're DF personnel, you're forbidden to wear it unless in the course of official duty. That rules out airsoft.

If you're not DF personnel, you're in possession of stolen property, because serving DF members can't sell or dispose of their kit, and they have to hand it back when they leave. It remains the property of the DF.

Either way, you're breaking a law or army regulation.

Also, from speaking to DF members who come into the shop, it pisses a lot of soldiers (even those who play airsoft) off no end to see people wearing it when they arent entitled, and pisses a lot of them off even more to see airsofters wearing it while playing.

EDIT. What Dave said, only he said it in less words.
Oh god.
I'm becoming Doc.

iceage · 23-01-2010 11:05PM

Originally Posted by Defence Act Section 264

264.—(1) If any person (not being a member of the Defence Forces) wears, without permission granted by or on behalf of the Minister, any uniform of the Defence Forces or any colourable imitation thereof, such person shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding ten pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding three months.

(2) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply in respect of the wearing of any uniform of the Defence Forces or any colourable imitation thereof in the course of a stage play or other dramatic representation or performance.

(3) In this section the word "uniform" includes any distinctive part of a uniform.

These are the points as to the wearing of said uniform.

iceage · 23-01-2010 11:08PM

Law regarding purchasing the gear:

Quote:
[GA] Penalty for purchasing certain military property.
260.—(1) In this section, the expression "military property" means any property being—

( a ) any arms, ammunition (including bombs, grenades or similar missiles), equipment, instruments or clothing issued for the use of members of the Defence Forces, or

( b ) any military decoration of a member of the Defence Forces, or

( c ) any furniture, bedding, blankets, sheets, utensils or stores in military charge, or

( d ) any provisions or forage issued for the use of a member of the Defence Forces or his horse, or

( e ) any horse or vehicle employed in the service of the Defence Forces.

(2) ( a ) If any person—

(i) buys, exchanges, takes in pawn, obtains or receives from any person, on any pretence whatsoever, any military property, or

(ii) solicits or entices any person to sell, exchange, pawn or give away any military property, or

(iii) assists or acts for any person in selling, exchanging, pawning or making away with any military property,

such person shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding twenty pounds together with treble the value of any military property of which he has become possessed by means of the offence or, at the discretion, of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six months or to both such fine and imprisonment.

( b ) Where a person is charged with an offence under this section it shall be a good defence to prove that—

(i) at the time he did the act alleged in the charge, he was unaware that the property in respect of which the charge was made was in fact military property, or

(ii) the said property was sold by order or with the consent of the Minister or some competent military authority, or

(iii) the said property was the personal property of a person who had ceased to be a member of the Defence Forces or of the legal personal representatives of a deceased member of the Defence Forces.

(3) Where any military property is found in the possession or keeping of any person, such person may be brought or summoned before a Justice of the District Court, and if such Justice has reasonable ground to believe that the military property so found was stolen, or was bought, exchanged, taken in pawn, obtained or received in contravention of this section, then, if such person does not satisfy such Justice that he came by the military property so found lawfully and without any contravention of this Act, he shall be liable on summary conviction to the same penalties as are specified in subsection (2) of this section in the case of a contravention of that subsection.

(4) A person found committing an offence under this section may be arrested without warrant, and brought, together with the military property which is the subject of the offence, before a Justice of the District Court, and any person to whom any such property is offered to be sold, pawned or delivered, who has reasonable cause to suppose that the same is offered in contravention of this section, may arrest without warrant the person offering such military property and deliver him and such military property into the custody of a member of the Garda Síochána to be dealt with according to law.

(5) A Justice of the District Court, if satisfied on oath that there is reasonable cause to suspect that any person has in his possession or on his premises any military property on or with respect to which any offence in this section mentioned has been committed, may grant a warrant in search for such military property as in the case of stolen goods and any military property found on such search shall be seized by the person charged with the execution of such warrant, who shall bring the person in whose possession the same is found before some Justice of the District Court to be dealt with according to law.

(6) For the purposes of this section, military property shall be deemed to be in the possession or keeping of a person if he knowingly has it in the actual possession or keeping of any other person or in any house, building, lodging, apartment, field or place, open or enclosed, whether occupied by himself or not, and whether the same is so had for his own use or benefit or for the use or benefit of another.

Rew dug these up on an earlier thread....pretty much says it all really dunnit. :P

how many reservists/pdf play airsoft?

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