Avatar Superthread

MayoForSam · 29-12-2009 10:37PM

Went to see Avatar this afternoon with the missus and 2 kids and it got the thumbs up across the board.

The story is pretty basic and has certainly been done before in a similar vein, but as a visual spectacle and for pure entertainment value, I couldn't find too many faults.

The CGI is amazing, its hard to believe that Cameron has managed to create an entire world. The Na'vi facial expressions are very realistic and showed true emotion at times. Especially liked the dust and ash motes flying around, the sun's rays moving over the vegetation and the

Tree of Souls flying seeds

that fitted in perfectly for the Christmas season.

The 3-D was more subtle than I thought it would be but definitely enhanced the viewing experience.

Music by James Horner was haunting, evocative and matched the film's mood very well.

One fly in the ointment at the end:

What were they doing letting the humans just leave? I can imagine that nasty little company man hitting the nuke button as soon as they reached orbit.

Saw it in the Eye cinema in Galway in case anyone is wondering, also myself and the wife both wear specs and the 3-D glasses worked fine.

PS Cameron loves his mechs doesn't he

?

hick · 29-12-2009 11:49PM

went to see it yesterday too
was it good, yes, was it great, I'm afraid not
the graphics were very impressive and the na'vi were better than I thought they'd be, but the story was a poor second here. there was 30 mins in the middle that could of been removed. one thing about the 3d was that it was tiring on the eyes and there was a good few blurry patches in the background or off to the sides. I did find it amazing that one lady in front of me with 3 young teenagers, realized at the start of the movie she needed the glasses, and ran out to get them, she came back a few mins later and said the queue was too long and the 4 of them watched the movie without them! madness!!!!
Anyway for me I have to say it was 6 out of 10, and the majority of that was for the CGI. But if you compare it to something like the Matrix which was a real groundbreaking movie, I went back to see that again in the cinema and couldn't wait to either, nothing like that here.

the my €0.02 anyway

gandalf · 30-12-2009 01:13PM

OK saw this in French yesterday so I will have to wait until I am back in Ireland to see it in English before I can comment on it fully.

The one thing that screamed at me looking at the visuals was this was "Dances with Wolves" set on another planet. I'd expect way more for a film that Cameron has been working on for over 20 years?

Running Bing · 31-12-2009 01:34AM

Went to see this yesterday in 3D. Part of me liked it, it was entertaining, at times charming, visually impressive and solidly made.

At the same time when I sit down and actually think about it it was quite a poor show.

First off the story is pretty bad. We've seen it all a million times before and at times it just felt the plot was nothing but a half hearted tacked on excuse to show lots of pretty images. It all just felt so soulless and by the numbers.

Now as for those pretty images, they were without a doubt gorgeous but I just could'nt get over the nagging feeling I was watching a 2 and a half hour videogame cutscene.

The 3D seemed to be a big selling point for the film but tbh it left me a bit flat. Sure it was impressive at times but overall it just felt gimmicky rather than revolutionary and in the end I felt I missed out on the best part of the film, the outstanding colours. I imagine it would've been more impressive in 2d tbh.

I think the bottom line is Avatar was sold as something completely revolutionary that would blow you away.....it didnt. Now that wouldnt be such a big deal if there was still a really good film there to back it up but there is'nt.

Bottom line is I enjoyed it, Id recommend it but it all just felt a bit meh for something that was supposed to be special.

PS: Forgot to say I loved Giovanni Ribisi in this. Thought he worked really well in the role.

fluke · 31-12-2009 02:03AM

I saw this yesterday. Enjoyed it! Yes the story was pretty basic but it was for me a spectacle movie that worked more often than it didn't.

hick · 31-12-2009 02:04AM

Running Bing wrote: »

.....

I think the bottom line is Avatar was sold as something completely revolutionary that would blow you away.....it didnt. Now that wouldnt be such a big deal if there was still a really good film there to back it up but there is'nt.

.......

+1 pretty much echo's my thoughts above, the problem was it was sold, it never got to stand on it's own 2 feet! Had it not been for the marketing machine the numbers would not be that hot. Other movies that really revolutionised the movie expieriance did it on their own mostly and were sleeper hits. Hopefully it will send a message back that might be taken a bit more seriously because of the recession...just cos you promote it as revolutionary doesn't mean it is, hollywood needs to get it writing to catch up with it's technology!

opinion guy · 31-12-2009 02:17AM

You know what I don't agree it was sold. I didn't see that much advertising - certainly nothing like the New Moon bollocks that was plastered everywehere. i thought the avatar advertising ws fairly low key. I didn't evn know it was in 3d until a couple of days before I saw it. I also don't think the 3d is a gimmick. I think its awesome and really adds to the experience. And I can't see it going away in a hurry.

L31mr0d · 31-12-2009 02:32AM

opinion guy wrote: »

You know what I don't agree it was sold.

+1

Half the office where I work had heard nothing about this film. My OH only heard of it when I explained that my desktop wallpaper was actually a screen capture from Camerons new film, she then confirmed that no one where she worked knew anything about it. Before going to see it I hadn't seen 1 TV advert and I didn't see 1 ad placement on the internet. Compared to Titanic this film had a very low key opening. In fact I only started seeing TV adverts after it had premièred.

The majority of people I know that have since gone to see it have done so on word of mouth. I'll be going to see it again with a few friends who are seeing it for the first time this weekend who likewise had not heard of it until I told them about it.

hick · 31-12-2009 02:37AM

sorry I have to disagree the marketing machine was well and truly kicked into gear on this one, from bush shelters to Tv spots, banner adverts on sites, viral marketing 2 years in advance and Comic Con was run over by it last year. I even saw an episode of "Bones" where the sub plot on the show was them talking about it, watching the trailer (!!!) and queuing in line to see the premier. They launched the game before the movie to get people into it. They had major hook ups with Coke and McDonalds which are the 2 of the largest consumer brands in the world That and if they could of had launch on Christmas day I think the would have to make sure no other movie was out so it could post the biggest figures. They rolled out the red carpet for this one!!!! Frankly if you missed it I'm not sure how???

jaykhunter · 31-12-2009 03:33AM

vinylbomb wrote: »

My argument is simply this : With a budget that enormous it must surely have been possible to get someone to write a cohesive story, even tying in the themes addressed. To be honest something vastly original was not what I was expecting, but I was hoping for something that was slightly more than vastly generic too.

I couldn't agree more. I think perhaps I was expecting too much from one of the great visionaries of our age with a track record of making a lot of my favourite movies, with an unlimited budget and 12 years to do it. I'm quite ignorant about "figuring out" storylines but the story arc of Jake (and the whole movie in general) was apparent in 15 minutes. Why was every character so black and white?

All that kept going around in my head during the rest of the film was "Humans are bad and are bad for the earth.
The native Americans love the earth and were raped by the Americans.
We should all love the earth."

I wish I loved this film but for the life of me, stunning 3D special effects aren't enough to make a crap film decent. Maybe I'm overly-sensitive to the simplistic message that's beaten into us over and over in the film. If this was a stage-play it'd be a crap play. But maybe this is a flaw with every big budget film.

Bottom line is that I felt cheated, hollow after the film, and spiteful because everyone else I watched it with seemingly overlooked all of the character/storyline/originality flaws for some reason. I didn't feel the characters, CGI tribe or landscapes were anything remotely original (although I did like the use of bioluminescence) but for whatever cause, I didn't like this film much.

Cheers for reading

vinylbomb · 31-12-2009 06:25AM

opinion guy wrote: »

You know what I don't agree it was sold.

Really? Even though Cameron took over many IMAx's and cinemas with 3d capability for the day (21 Aug 2009), to screen 15 minutes of teaser footage, in a worldwide event called Avatar Day?

vinylbomb · 31-12-2009 06:27AM

jaykhunter wrote: »

I couldn't agree more. I think perhaps I was expecting too much from one of the great visionaries of our age with a track record of making a lot of my favourite movies, with an unlimited budget and 12 years to do it. I'm quite ignorant about "figuring out" storylines but the story arc of Jake (and the whole movie in general) was apparent in 15 minutes. Why was every character so black and white?

All that kept going around in my head during the rest of the film was "Humans are bad and are bad for the earth.
The native Americans love the earth and were raped by the Americans.
We should all love the earth."

I wish I loved this film but for the life of me, stunning 3D special effects aren't enough to make a crap film decent. Maybe I'm overly-sensitive to the simplistic message that's beaten into us over and over in the film. If this was a stage-play it'd be a crap play. But maybe this is a flaw with every big budget film.

Bottom line is that I felt cheated, hollow after the film, and spiteful because everyone else I watched it with seemingly overlooked all of the character/storyline/originality flaws for some reason. I didn't feel the characters, CGI tribe or landscapes were anything remotely original (although I did like the use of bioluminescence) but for whatever cause, I didn't like this film much.

Cheers for reading

+1

This is 100% exactly how I feel about it. Honestly couldn't have described my own feelings on it better

31-12-2009 10:58AM

Seen it a second time last night, class... Really really like it.

To people who complain about storyline, how about not going to a 12's movie that is set on a far away planet with giant blue people.. What do ye expect?
It's as valid an argument as complaining about storyline in a porno. It's a piece of entertainment that kids through adults can enjoy.. Avatar I mean, not the porn.

There's going to be a point in cinema where no movie is original. Can anyone on here give me "Avatar" with a different original storyline?

Driver 8 · 31-12-2009 11:42AM

I think you're confusing the desire for a decent storyline with a desire for realism. Saying it's a 12s movie or aimed at kids doesn't excuse it either- I've seen plenty of childrens film with great storylines and three dimensional characters.

Also, as well as the argument not being for realism but for a decent storyline, the argument isn't that every film has to be astoundingly original, but Avatar is so transparently a re-thread of a story we've seen told so very many times before, in everything from Dances with Wolves, to Pocahontas, to Ferngully. If people like Avatar as an action/sci-fi bit of escapism that's one thing, but to see it as one of the Oscar frontrunners baffles me. If this movie had been made ten years ago, with practical effects, people would probably have dwelt more on the plot, and found it wanting. I'll be the first to admit the effects on show are fantastic, and they should win as many technical oscars as it's nominated for, but I can't see how this can beat a film like The Hurt Locker to best picture.

faceman · 31-12-2009 11:47AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Seen it a second time last night, class... Really really like it.

To people who complain about storyline, how about not going to a 12's movie that is set on a far away planet with giant blue people.. What do ye expect?
It's as valid an argument as complaining about storyline in a porno. It's a piece of entertainment that kids through adults can enjoy.. Avatar I mean, not the porn.

There's going to be a point in cinema where no movie is original. Can anyone on here give me "Avatar" with a different original storyline?

The Princess Bride is a kids film yet has an excellent story and script. As does the Incredibles, Never Ending Story, Star Wars 4-6.

Regarding originality, There are only really 7 main story types anyway but its not what you tell its how you tell it.

31-12-2009 12:20PM

Ok, well what I'm trying to say is that like music, there's different genres of movies that I like to watch at different times. Avatar fills the "mindless entertainment" gap perfectly.. The last movie I seen and loved was The Motorcycle Diaries. I'd say the latter is a better movie but the former still lives up to most people's expectations because most cinema goers don't care if it reminds them of Dances with Wolves. It doesn't take away from the movie itself imo.

Anyways, I love movies but don't look into them enough to get dragged into a discussion..

hick · 31-12-2009 01:51PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyways, I love movies but don't look into them enough to get dragged into a discussion..

Damn and here was I just after saddling up my high horse and start debating that 12a is merely a guide from the regulator (Star wars was PG!) but one which they aimed at to open up the audience as wide as possible and ensure that merchandising is maximized. yeda yeda

Oh well

opinion guy · 31-12-2009 01:52PM

vinylbomb wrote: »

Really? Even though Cameron took over many IMAx's and cinemas with 3d capability for the day (21 Aug 2009), to screen 15 minutes of teaser footage, in a worldwide event called Avatar Day?

That may have happened, but its news to me. Look New Moon I literally could not look at a flat surface without seeing some pasty anaemic brooding teenager glaring back at me. THats advertising. I don't see that many blue people about the place.

faceman wrote: »

The Princess Bride is a kids film yet has an excellent story and script. As does the Incredibles, Never Ending Story, Star Wars 4-6.

Regarding originality, There are only really 7 main story types anyway but its not what you tell its how you tell it.

Fixed your post....

BlitzKrieg · 31-12-2009 02:00PM

opinion guy wrote: »

That may have happened, but its news to me. Look New Moon I literally could not look at a flat surface without seeing some pasty anaemic brooding teenager glaring back at me. THats advertising. I don't see that many blue people about the place.

so its not that it wasnt advertised...just not advertised to you? Thats like the hermit complaining nobody visits him.

I dont know about anyone else, but its a bit hard to miss the 20 foot poster hanging outside cineworld on parnell street these days

senordingdong · 31-12-2009 02:53PM

This movie was one of the worst cinema experiences I've had this year.

It's only redeeming feature is it's visuals and even then, they started to grate before long.

The plot was so weak and the dialogue so cliched I am truely amazed he got three hours out of it.
It just goes to show how over inflated this movie was.

opinion guy · 31-12-2009 03:06PM

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

so its not that it wasnt advertised...just not advertised to you? Thats like the hermit complaining nobody visits him.

I dont know about anyone else, but its a bit hard to miss the 20 foot poster hanging outside cineworld on parnell street these days

No no no subtle distinction. Relative to other recent blockbusters such as New Moon, it has not been that heavily advertised, thus rendering moot someone else's point that it had extremely heavy advertising

Galvasean · 31-12-2009 03:17PM

opinion guy wrote: »

No no no subtle distinction. Relative to other recent blockbusters such as New Moon, it has not been that heavily advertised, thus rendering moot someone else's point that it had extremely heavy advertising

Considering Avatar is sold out pretty much everywhere, broken records and is raking in the dough, I think they got the marketing mix just right. Sure they could have stuck up more billboards, but it wouldn't have increased box ofice gross, just wasted more money.
re: the comparison with Twighlight (New Moon); That franchise sells itself by whipping up an absolute frenzy amongst it's fans by bombarding their senses from every angle. If a comparison was made to war, it would be nuclear.

BlitzKrieg · 31-12-2009 03:20PM

opinion guy wrote: »

No no no subtle distinction. Relative to other recent blockbusters such as New Moon, it has not been that heavily advertised, thus rendering moot someone else's point that it had extremely heavy advertising

again 20 foot poster outside cineworld...

Just because you didnt see the advertisements doesnt mean they werent there.

seraphimvc · 31-12-2009 04:23PM

finished my about 8k words review on Avatar and put on my blog last night:p

maybe one day i will write an english version:o

to put it in the simplest form of english i can think of,i quote this dude from Rotten tomatoes:
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/avatar/comments.php?reviewid=1860933
Cameron tried to win the audience over exactly in the spirits that befits the na'vi: it's not through complex reasoning, it's just through PUTTING YOUR SENSES THROUGH WHAT A NA'VI EXPERIENCE, and he's done such a beautiful job. Any old-style complex drama through reasons will really seem out of place here. It's a great movie, if not one with an extraodinarily big brain (it's not supposed to be), certainly one with a pounding heart. Totally deserves the golden globe it was nominated for. Just don't try too hard to judge it by the traditional definition of a good story. For the first time the CG not just enhance the story, they tell much of the story.:)

bascially that is what i fully agree and i bet Avatar is so gonna grab many oscars next year - this movie, called Avatar,is actually our audience's Avatar

a trip to pandora which guided by cameron.

actors?stories? as someone said above ,if it is a winning formula,why bother to change it?Cameron is also a business man deep down - a successful director who knows how to sell his product and satisfy us audience.i sorta mentioned in my review that i will give 4/10 max for the story,and if i judge it like a normal movie i will give an overall of 7.5/10 - but if you see the real core idea behind avatar(which is the above quote),as i believe i did :P i give it a 9.5/10,since cameron basically create a new definition for the usage of CG.

think of back to 10years ago,Jurrasic Park's T-Rex made the little girl in the jeep screamed and we scream too when the camera focus on the t-rex's roar.
2009's Cameron attempt to put us in the girl's body and see the t-rex through her eyes. awesome?cameron = genius?i am not sure.mind blowing?not really. but the idea is truly fascinating,isnt it?:) speaking from me as a hardcore movies lover!

3 hours of Avatar is totally enjoyable. think of Micheal Bay,sitting through his totally sh!te 2hours Transformer2 was like a hell!!!seriously tho,bay should really GO BACK to collage!!

feel the Na'vi,feel the pandora - Nyetiri told us!:D

opinion guy · 31-12-2009 04:33PM

Galvasean wrote: »

Considering Avatar is sold out pretty much everywhere, broken records and is raking in the dough, I think they got the marketing mix just right. Sure they could have stuck up more billboards, but it wouldn't have increased box ofice gross, just wasted more money.
re: the comparison with Twighlight (New Moon); That franchise sells itself by whipping up an absolute frenzy amongst it's fans by bombarding their senses from every angle. If a comparison was made to war, it would be nuclear.

Thanks for backing up my point...even thou you didn't realise it

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

again 20 foot poster outside cineworld...

Just because you didnt see the advertisements doesnt mean they werent there.

Oh a poster at the CINEMA ?!!! wow total blanket adversiting:rolleyes:. New Moon had a 20ft poster around the corner from my HOUSE!!!!, and another at the cinema, and every flat surface in between. I used the same process for registering that advertising as i did for the avatar one. fact is i could not turn on my tv, radio or venutre mor ethan 50ft from my house without hearing about new moon. the same cannot be said of avatar

seraphimvc wrote: »

finished my about 8k words review on Avatar and put on my blog last night:p

maybe one day i will write an english version:o

to put it in the simplest form of english i can think of,i quote this dude from Rotten tomatoes:
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/avatar/comments.php?reviewid=1860933
Cameron tried to win the audience over exactly in the spirits that befits the na'vi: it's not through complex reasoning, it's just through PUTTING YOUR SENSES THROUGH WHAT A NA'VI EXPERIENCE, and he's done such a beautiful job. Any old-style complex drama through reasons will really seem out of place here. It's a great movie, if not one with an extraodinarily big brain (it's not supposed to be), certainly one with a pounding heart. Totally deserves the golden globe it was nominated for. Just don't try too hard to judge it by the traditional definition of a good story. For the first time the CG not just enhance the story, they tell much of the story.:)

bascially that is what i fully agree and i bet Avatar is so gonna grab many oscars next year - this movie, called Avatar,is actually our audience's Avatar a trip to pandora which guided by cameron.

actors?stories? as someone said above ,if it is a winning formula,why bother to change it?Cameron is also a business man deep down - a successful director who knows how to sell his product and satisfy us audience.

3 hours of Avatar is totally enjoyable. think of Micheal Bay,sitting through his totally sh!te 2hours Transformer2 was like a hell!!!seriously tho,bay should really GO BACK to collage!!

feel the Na'vi,feel the pandora - Nyetiri told us!:D

Interesting point - the whole movie is the audience's avatar. never thought of that. intriguing...

agree with you transformers 2 was unbearably painful. But then so was the first one. when anyone tries dragging my to the third i'm putting my foot down and going to the pub instead

BlitzKrieg · 31-12-2009 04:52PM

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2009/12/03/avatar-advertising-invades-bones-episode/

http://business-video.tmcnet.com/topics/business-video/articles/70961-lg-mobile-phones-launches-marketing-campaign-avatar.htm

http://www.marketingmagazine.co.uk/news/970929/Coca-Cola-ties-up-James-Camerons-forthcoming-3D-film-Avatar/

http://www.cinematical.com/2009/08/13/avatar-day-details-finally-announced/

let me spell this out so you get it. Just because you as an irish consumer did not see the marketing campaign that pushed this film across the entire world.

DOES NOT MEAN IT DIDNT EXIST.

speedboatchase · 31-12-2009 06:21PM

Umm the movie is gonna blow past 1bn worldwide in a few weeks, why would anybody complain about the advertising? I think the ads started very slow but really picked up the week before release, and then good word of mouth took it over the top. New Moon is one of the most frontloaded movies of all time, half it's overall gross in the U.S right now was from it's first 3 days. So half the people that seen it seen it in 3 days, the same amount seen it over 6 weeks afterwards :eek: I think NM bombarded people like myself who have no real interest in the franchise so much they decided "nope, definitely not for me" which is why so few people went to see it after the first few days. Avatar dropped 1.4% in its second weekend and had the highest second weekend gross of all time, proof that audiences will do the majority of advertising for you anyway

opinion guy · 31-12-2009 07:08PM

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2009/12/03/avatar-advertising-invades-bones-episode/

http://business-video.tmcnet.com/topics/business-video/articles/70961-lg-mobile-phones-launches-marketing-campaign-avatar.htm

http://www.marketingmagazine.co.uk/news/970929/Coca-Cola-ties-up-James-Camerons-forthcoming-3D-film-Avatar/

http://www.cinematical.com/2009/08/13/avatar-day-details-finally-announced/

let me spell this out so you get it. Just because you as an irish consumer did not see the marketing campaign that pushed this film across the entire world.

DOES NOT MEAN IT DIDNT EXIST.

And let me spell this out to you.

My original point was: I, AS AN IRISH CONSUMER, DID NOT FEEL THAT THIS FILM WAS AS HEAVILY MARKETED AS NEW MOON, FOR EXAMPLE. Thats my opinion and others have agreed me. You are strawmanning me

mrniceguy2 · 31-12-2009 09:24PM

absolutely brill

mrniceguy2 · 31-12-2009 09:25PM

n try d videogames

Avatar Superthread

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