Is Ireland ripe for revolution?

ScissorPaperRock · 22-12-2009 12:34AM #1

With discontentment with the government and church and other institutions widespread and growing every day, could we ever see some sort of movement to bring about true reform?

Or are we too apathetic/not bothered? Or maybe the people feel powerless in the face of it all?

Or do we trust our government to lead us forward and out of the paralysing grips of these institutions?

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe people feel there's a greater positive outcome than a negative one from these institutions.

I'd be very interested to hear some opinions on this. Personally I'd like to see some real change happen, but can't see people coming together to make it happen.

brummytom · 22-12-2009 12:36AM

I'm on my way over now.

Let's make it 1600 years

TheZohanS · 22-12-2009 12:38AM

tl;dr

partyatmygaff · 22-12-2009 12:38AM

brummytom wrote: »

I'm on my way over now.

Let's make it 1600 years

Assume your new title

Lord Tom of all Ireland

TanG411 · 22-12-2009 12:39AM

We're too laid back as a country.

And the older generations who were brought up with religion just won't agree. They have a ''Sure it'll be grand'' attitude.

We're not ready.

digme · 22-12-2009 12:41AM

Larkin91 wrote: »

We're too laid back as a country.

And the older generations who were brought up with religion just won't agree. They have a ''Sure it'll be grand'' attitude.

We're not ready.

BS the older crowd think the younger crowd are a bunch of pussies.Go show them your not.

phasers · 22-12-2009 12:42AM

I like being laid back.

Also the longer Fianna Fail are in power during this whole mess the longer it'll take them to get re elected further down the line. Let them lie in their shitty beds til the next election.

RE the Church, old people are still pretty religious so it'll be a few years before Ireland can get away from that Catholic image

Biggins · 22-12-2009 12:43AM

Its ripe - but it (the idea and action) will go off before we would see it happen sadly.

Tyler MacDurden · 22-12-2009 12:43AM

brummytom wrote: »

I'm on my way over now.

Let's make it 1600 years

Not you lot again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3L0B2At_W4

(NSFW use of the Queen's English.)

Slugs · 22-12-2009 12:44AM

Lol, Doubt it, the IMF'll be in and you'll be taking it up the ass before anyone even contemplates revolution.

jumpguy · 22-12-2009 12:45AM

brummytom wrote: »

I'm on my way over now.

Let's make it 1600 years

Another Strongbow, eh? (History joke lads...)

Anyway, Ireland is not ripe for revolution. There's unrest, not an atmosphere of revolution.

partyatmygaff · 22-12-2009 12:47AM

Larkin91 wrote: »

And the older generations who were brought up with religion just won't agree. They have a ''Sure it'll be grand'' attitude.

Eh, I think it would be the opposite. Those "older generations" had a LOT more rebellions and revolutions (Attempts anyway) than today.

The 1916 rising and the many other risings in the 19th century were by the "older generation".

If anything its the new generations that are too laid back. People back then didn't have the internet to complain on.

imme · 22-12-2009 12:47AM

@OP, what do you mean by "true reform".

Anyway, we don't do revolution in Ireland, unless someone else is in charge.
We are the people.

ScissorPaperRock · 22-12-2009 12:50AM

jumpguy wrote: »

Another Strongbow, eh? (History joke lads...)

Anyway, Ireland is not ripe for revolution. There's unrest, not an atmosphere of revolution.

And is unrest enough to bring about change? (genuine question)

I mean, I personally think that something big needs to happen move away from the incompetency and short-sightedness that characterises our current government. I mean there are other parties, but they seem bent on criticising every move the current government makes and don't seem to offer much in the way of alternatives.

Alessandra · 22-12-2009 12:51AM

Careful now.

mink_man · 22-12-2009 12:52AM

no!

rossie1977 · 22-12-2009 12:54AM

revolution..................ha

bet fianna fail get voted back in by a big margin next election

karlog · 22-12-2009 12:54AM

Should we blow up the Oireachtas to the sound of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture?

ScissorPaperRock · 22-12-2009 12:55AM

imme wrote: »

@OP, what do you mean by "true reform".

Anyway, we don't do revolution in Ireland, unless someone else is in charge.
We are the people.

A competent government would the most basic kind of reform, where our elected representatives actually have to live up to, and are held accountable for, promises/commitments they make.

Personally I'd also like to see a complete roll-back of the church's grip and influence. I think it's influence is blinding, but that may be a debate for another thread. And I don't mean to offend anyone, it's just one guy's opinion.

Edit: I mean we have a law against blasphemy. It's a bloody joke!

imme · 22-12-2009 01:11AM

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

A competent government would the most basic kind of reform, where our elected representatives actually have to live up to, and are held accountable for, promises/commitments they make. Also complete decentralisation of the alot of the decision making to the regional level would position us a lot better to achieve economic growth.

Personally I'd also like to see a complete roll-back of the church's grip and influence. I think it's influence is blinding, but that may be a debate for another thread. And I don't mean to offend anyone, it's just one guy's opinion.

Edit: I mean we have a law against blasphemy. It's a bloody joke!

Is this 1989 or 2009, the "Church's blinding influence"??????? Have myriad scandals not put paid to that.
If one wants a revolution one needs BIG things to come from it, not decentralisation and the like.
Revolutions that I've read about generally don't lead to competent government.

Sorry if it feels I'm attacking you SPR.:o

ScissorPaperRock · 22-12-2009 01:18AM

imme wrote: »

Is this 1989 or 2009, the "Church's blinding influence"??????? Have myriad scandals not put paid to that.
If one wants a revolution one needs BIG things to come from it, not decentralisation and the like.
Revolutions that I've read about generally don't lead to competent government.

Sorry if it feels I'm attacking you SPR.:o

Well if I had to be honest about the kind of revolution I'd like, I'd see the abolishment of the church, and of the entire monetary system (but would require a global revolution, and is for another thread), and I'm sure there's more that I can't think of right now.

Sorry I edited decentralisation out just before you posted that, because it's a **** reason for a revolution.

I just think things need to shake up a bit, and feel that everyone (myself included) is too complacent and will just continue to accept things the way they are.

And fair enough, revolutions have not always led to better replacements, but something needs to happen.

epgc3fyqirnbsx · 22-12-2009 01:19AM

Problem with Ireland is taht we treat politics like Pop Idol. Thats why Bertie used to be so popular, sure didn't he wear an anorak, surely a man of the people!

The likes of Kenny (which whether you like it or nor is the only viable oppositon at the moment) might bore you to tears, but I'd rather have a boring accountant type run the country now than some backslapper.

But revolution, not a hope, apathy is huge! It takes a hell of a lot of oppresion to bring out large scale political expression.

Unless you're french of course...

ScumLord · 22-12-2009 01:25AM

No European country is close to revolution, especially Ireland. For all our complaining we have it pretty good. The biggest problem is we can see a better way, we're just not willing to sacrifice what we have to get to that stage. It will take real catastrophe to make us change and that will happen, it's inevitable.

imme · 22-12-2009 01:34AM

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

entire monetary system (but would require a global revolution, and is for another thread),

sorry but that sounds like communism, I've just called the Gardai, and they're on their way over to you right NOW.

(Imme gotta go to bed)

Mr Benevolent · 22-12-2009 01:37AM

Look how badly the last revolution went. Besides, financial mismanagement isn't a good reason for a revolution. Hell it was the voter's fault in the first place for believing the hype. Now they cry because it didn't last forever. Boo fuckin' hoo, shouldn't have bought a house/apartment at massively inflated prices.

Oh yeah, and what would happen after the revolution? That's right, we'd be kicked out of Europe because we didn't have a democracy. We'd lose the Euro and inflation would rocket. The 'government' would then try the ol' 'quantative easing' approach and soon it'd be 3000 punts for a loaf of bread. After a few years there'd be another revolution, Brian Cowen would be back in power and we'd have an economy 20 years behind the rest of Europe with no realistic chance of getting back into the EU.

Revolution me hole. The only people to advocate revolution are the same ones who haven't a clue how governing a country works in the first place. It'd be a thousand times worse.

partyatmygaff · 22-12-2009 01:39AM

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

Well if I had to be honest about the kind of revolution I'd like, I'd see the abolishment of the church, and of the entire monetary system (but would require a global revolution, and is for another thread), and I'm sure there's more that I can't think of right now.

Sorry I edited decentralisation out just before you posted that, because it's a **** reason for a revolution.

I just think things need to shake up a bit, and feel that everyone (myself included) is too complacent and will just continue to accept things the way they are.

And fair enough, revolutions have not always led to better replacements, but something needs to happen.

The church can't be abolished, its not part of the state. You can't change the entire monetary system or we will get kicked out of the EU. Basically any type of revolution will only destroy what hope remains for the country (Especially its economy)

ScumLord · 22-12-2009 01:51AM

Confab wrote: »

Oh yeah, and what would happen after the revolution? That's right, we'd be kicked out of Europe because we didn't have a democracy. We'd lose the Euro and inflation would rocket. The 'government' would then try the ol' 'quantative easing' approach and soon it'd be 3000 punts for a loaf of bread. After a few years there'd be another revolution, Brian Cowen would be back in power and we'd have an economy 20 years behind the rest of Europe with no realistic chance of getting back into the EU.

To be honest that kind of talk is just scaremongering. £we can't possibly change because we could change into something horrible" I know you're using it as an argument against anarchy but still it's a tool in the defence of the current flawed system.

22-12-2009 01:56AM

ScumLord wrote: »

To be honest that kind of talk is just scaremongering. £we can't possibly change because we could change into something horrible" I know you're using it as an argument against anarchy but still it's a tool in the defence of the current flawed system.

The current system isn't flawed. The current government is. There's a huge difference. We have a capitalist democracy, a system that's been shown to work well in many countries.

We have a corrupt, useless government, but they'll be gone come the next general election.

Jesus christ talk of revolution because of an economic downturn is lunacy. Do people even realise what a revolution entails? Bloodshed, lots of.

ScissorPaperRock · 22-12-2009 01:59AM

Ok, I'd like to add that I'm not necessarily talking about an overthrowing of the government and rioting in the streets and that sort of chaos. But maybe the transferring of power, or a time where voices will be made heard, or even a time where those with voices of power to be held accountable.

22-12-2009 02:00AM

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

But maybe the transferring of power

As in the next general election?

ScissorPaperRock · 22-12-2009 02:03AM

Deleted User wrote: »

We have a capitalist democracy, a system that's been shown to work well in many countries.

I wouldn't agree with this point. The capitalist system is inherently flawed, and in it's current form is designed to keep the rich rich and the poor poor - and this is what keeps the system of production going.

Is Ireland ripe for revolution?

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