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Reginald P. DuM · 19-12-2009 01:31AM

I'm amazed at how many people give out about the story line, and how it has been seen before in some other movie. Can we move on from this please. People making out like they are a serious film reviewer by saying they recognized the theme from such and such. All story lines are as old as time itself. The trick is to make ya forget about this in while your watching, and Cameron has accomplished this without question. I loved Avatar, can't wait for the sequel. :P

Richard Dower · 19-12-2009 01:39AM

I am gonna see it again during the week, maybe i'll have a different opinion second time round, maybe i'll "see" more.

mdwexford · 19-12-2009 01:55AM

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

Few nitpicks that I had from the first screening that the 2nd one reminded me off.
the last fight between Sully and the mech...seriously? THis is the mech that killed the alien panther that you had the run away from and you start a knife fight with it? The scale might be off a bit there, did it shrink for the sully fight or did the panther shrink???
that is really a nitpick, I dont think its a plothole, it didnt take away from the scene, it just something that briefly raised an eyebrow.

You are comparing him when he was out in the jungle for the first time ever to when he was a trained warrior 3 months later.

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

And while I expect a few roll eyes at this (and honestly who is stupid enough to think only documentarys should have plotholes pointed out...wait how can a documentary a recount of factual event have a plothole?)

Thats my whole point above, its as ridiculous to complain about plotholes in a Sci-Fi movie like some of the ones mentioned above as it would be in a documentary.

Almost every "plothole" mentioned by people above is complete rubbish.

mdwexford · 19-12-2009 01:56AM

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Just got back from this. How could I sum it up? Trite, cliched crap. The plot was so predictable I wanted to cry. Haven't we seen this all before? In addition, the graphics were average and the 3D was non-existent, for the most part. A Christmas Carol walks all over this movie, in terms of these last two points, not to mention storyline, but since the latter is a timeless classic, we can forgive Avatar for not winning that race. But there are no excuses for how average this movie looked, when you consider the hype they generated for themselves.

If you haven't seen this yet, don't bother. If you want a good 3D experience and a classic story told, try catch A Christmas Carol before its run ends.

If i was 7 i might agree with you.

Richard Dower · 19-12-2009 01:59AM

mdwexford wrote: »

If i was 7 i might agree with you.

Oi!...i'm 36 and *will* see Toy Story 3D :mad:

mdwexford · 19-12-2009 02:07AM

Richard Dower wrote: »

Oi!...i'm 36 and *will* see Toy Story 3D :mad:

Its cool, me too, age barriers dont apply to Pixar movies.

Tar.Aldarion · 19-12-2009 02:10AM

What a film, filrst time I have seen a film in 3D, only experience before was a ride at a adventure park place. I don't know how I will be able to watch normal films again, they look so **** coompared to it. I would take the glasses off to see the difference and it was so huge. It felt like you were much more immersed in it or more like you were there.

BlitzKrieg · 19-12-2009 02:21AM

mdwexford wrote: »

You are comparing him when he was out in the jungle for the first time ever to when he was a trained warrior 3 months later, stupid point.

a) I wasnt referring to his dramatic increase of strength, I was referring to the scale between them.

The size of the panther seemed to have gotten smaller by the end of the film. seeing as it was pretty beefy at the start of the film, just about under half the size of those big rhino things, those same rhino things that *stepped* on a mech earlier in the film. And it has to scrabble and jump around the mech and in the end gets held up in one hand and stabbed in the gut and thrown away.

Thats my whole point above, its as ridiculous to complain about plotholes in a Sci-Fi movie like some of the ones mentioned above as it would be in a documentary.

Ok let me try and ring some sense into using the term plothole when talking about a documentary.

plot: A constructed narrative used in dramatic works tying characters settings and events into a single consistent series of events leading to a conclusion.

Documentary: A visual expression to *document* reality, usually around a key figure or event.

YOU CANNOT HAVE A PLOTHOLE IN A DOCUMENTARY!

You point factual mistakes in a documentary or maybe bias, but they are not plotholes.

Plotholes is where a film makes an unexplainable leap of logic to get from event a to event b. *there is a hole in the plot*

Thats why of my 3 points I said only one of them was a plothole

Almost every "plothole" mentioned by people above is complete rubbish.

I would agree most pointed out are not plotholes, I just think someone thinking that a documentary is somewhere to go when you want to find plotholes is equally complete rubbish.

CyberGhost · 19-12-2009 02:23AM

Tusky wrote: »

People who pick the tiniest of plotholes in Science Fiction movies make my brain cry.

Agreed, unless a plot hole just jumps out and bites you, why look for it deliberately?

Just watch it, ignorance is bliss.

mdwexford · 19-12-2009 02:31AM

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

a) I wasnt referring to his dramatic increase of strength, I was referring to the scale between them.
The size of the panther seemed to have gotten smaller by the end of the film. seeing as it was pretty beefy at the start of the film, just about under half the size of those big rhino things, those same rhino things that *stepped* on a mech earlier in the film. And it has to scrabble and jump around the mech and in the end gets held up in one hand and stabbed in the gut and thrown away.

Ok let me try and ring some sense into using the term plothole when talking about a documentary.

plot: A constructed narrative used in dramatic works tying characters settings and events into a single consistent series of events leading to a conclusion.

Documentary: A visual expression to *document* reality, usually around a key figure or event.

YOU CANNOT HAVE A PLOTHOLE IN A DOCUMENTARY!

You point factual mistakes in a documentary or maybe bias, but they are not plotholes.

Plotholes is where a film makes an unexplainable leap of logic to get from event a to event b. *there is a hole in the plot*

Thats why of my 3 points I said only one of them was a plothole

I would agree most pointed out are not plotholes, I just think someone thinking that a documentary is somewhere to go when you want to find plotholes is equally complete rubbish.

You're not understanding what im saying Sir.

I realise documentaries cannot have plotholes. :rolleyes:

What i am saying is Sci-Fi movies to a degree are exempt from plotholes, as in unimaginable things can happen and its fine, i just hate when people complain about said things like some people have above.

Tar.Aldarion · 19-12-2009 02:34AM

Exactly. 'A wizard did it'

Who says it was the same creature and that it changed size, maybe it changes sizes hourly? Who gives a ****!

barry181091 · 19-12-2009 02:44AM

Hey Guys,

Thinking of seeing this in 3D in Galway Omniplex on Sunday.

I have only ever seen one stereo 3d movie and that was Ice Age 3, also in Galway. TBH, Was not impressed with the 3D 'experience'.

Is this movie any differant with the 3D ? As I heard there are different ways to implement the 3D effect.

BlitzKrieg · 19-12-2009 02:47AM

*hits head against wall*

You are all complaining about people nitpicking over factual errors, not plotholes. WILL EVERYBODY STOP USING THE WORD PLOTHOLE!

plothole: character A says *There's no oxygen on the moon* cut to next scene Character A is going for a stroll along the sea of tranquility without a space suit.

factual error: Character A is going for a stroll along the sea of tranquility without a space suit, nothing has been mentioned about oxygen on the moon or not.

One is a mistake in the narrative the other is not.

Yes people pointing out factual errors can be annoying, its even more so when they call them plotholes. And its even more annoying when another level on top of that start complaining that they shouldnt point out plot holes because Sci Fi shouldnt be subject to the laws of narrative as strictly...

God its lucky I never got to mod films everyone who used the word plothole incorrectly on this thread would have had a week's ban by now.

mdwexford · 19-12-2009 02:52AM

I disagree.

*trots off to troll the Facial Hair & Hats forum and Sega forum till hes blue in the face*

BlitzKrieg · 19-12-2009 02:53AM

dont forget film production and xbox

Tar.Aldarion · 19-12-2009 03:12AM

Onlyy plothole I didn't like was that the colonol dude was so one dimensional

Tar.Aldarion · 19-12-2009 03:21AM

Blitz doesn't like my plot hole?

sent me a message about it!

BlitzKrieg · 19-12-2009 03:26AM

its not a plothole to have a bad character (I didnt like him either, I thought he was the weakest aspect of the film) but its not a plothole!!!!!!!

he started off as a one dimensional character, everyone treated him as such and he never changed from that.

if he started off as a hippie and then turned into a war mongering maniac halfway through without explanation.

thats a plothole.

I know you tar. You're just trying to p*ss me off now

barry181091 · 19-12-2009 03:30AM

So guys is the 3d much good with this movie ??

Tar.Aldarion · 19-12-2009 03:31AM

I looked it up!! It is plothole!!

BlitzKrieg · 19-12-2009 03:38AM

I am strangling you over the internet

Tar.Aldarion · 19-12-2009 03:46AM

You're not, that's a factual error!

BlitzKrieg · 19-12-2009 03:48AM

but we already established nobody cares about factual errors, only plotholes.

And since in the current narrative we have esablished you have p*ssed me off enough to actually break the laws of physics...I AM STRANGLING YOU OVER THE F*CKING INTERNET!

Now stay still.

fatjebus · 19-12-2009 03:49AM

seen it tonight, Loved every waking movie of it, thought it looked immaculate, so what if the story is a little off, WHO REALLY CARES! you forget about the story line and become immersed in the beauty of the world created before you, the action I thought was spot on, will go to see this again on monday.

Only wish i could see this in 3D

speedboatchase · 19-12-2009 04:22AM

fatjebus wrote: »

seen it tonight, Loved every waking movie of it, thought it looked immaculate, so what if the story is a little off, WHO REALLY CARES! you forget about the story line and become immersed in the beauty of the world created before you, the action I thought was spot on, will go to see this again on monday.

Only wish i could see this in 3D

You're tired, go to bed! I'm movieing this movie tomovie, cant wait!

Cupcake_Crisis · 19-12-2009 04:41AM

speedboatchase wrote: »

You're tired, go to bed! I'm movieing this movie tomovie, cant wait!

Prepare to have your mind blown!!

Tar.Aldarion · 19-12-2009 04:52AM

thats what she said!

Omnipresence · 19-12-2009 11:31AM

hmmm i really think this movie doesn't offer anything near what was initially promised - in terms of Audio/Visual etc it's stunning - and therefore a must see in the cinema in 3D no doubt about that... but I guess I was expecting just a little more...

Consider this... a solo guy at home working hard can make this quality of realism now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHD8Xf5Rnvo

These guys had what $500m+ ... i was expecting a little icing on the top for that... Maybe the sheen had been taken off little for me as I already had the "ooo wow real3d" moment in Coraline 3D when they went into the alternative trippy garden ... I guess Avatar might have had more impact if it was the first of the new 3D movies.

As for the storyline etc.. my god.. dances with smurfs really wasnt far off the mark......hollywood tripe... without spoiling anything but to give you an idea how bad that was: The hard to get mineral they are mining is called ... "un-obtain-ium" ::facepalm::

For me a great sci/fi movie is one that when it comes on TV you watch over and over again (for me thats films like Alien etc) but I doubt I could sit through this again...

Maybe someone will remove the audio track and write some kind of score for this in the future and it might become some kind of student LSD movie but thats about all I could see it being good for...

In the mean time this looks really promising ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1IpPpB3iWI

Hogzy · 19-12-2009 12:10PM

Great movie.

Anyone else notice the sheer amount of sound effects lifted straight from the jurassic park movie. LOL the horse things made the exact same sound as the velociraptor calling.

L31mr0d · 19-12-2009 12:58PM

Omnipresence wrote: »

Consider this... a solo guy at home working hard can make this quality of realism now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHD8Xf5Rnvo

It isn't comparable. The rendering needed to create the solid body of a car is in no way similar to duplicating all the muscle movements, hair physics and facial expressions of a humanoid.

As humans we are tuned to decipher the faces of fellow humans. We pick up tons of information from looking at another humans face that we aren't consciously aware of. It's why just looking at someone can give you a feeling about them without knowing anything about them, and it's why in CGI, up until this point there has been a prevalent "uncanny valley" affect with CG humanoid faces. They either looked cute and unrealistic, or realistic to the point of being creepy. True realism is looking at a face, and its expressions, seeing it as real and not finding it creepy. Avatar accomplished this and its already being heralded as ground breaking. It's a new standard in CGI. You can disagree but the experts will tell you you're wrong. It's not "perfect", yet, but currently there is nothing that will better it.

What I did notice however is that all of the creatures on Pandora lacked any hair or fur. Even the Na'vi had their hair always in plats, braids, or tucked under some form of hat. Hair/fur physics is extremely difficult to pull off realistically. The best I've seen seems to look like hair under water or in zero gravity. I'd imagine Cameron realized that he couldn't put fur on the creatures and have it look 100% realistic so he just omitted it and made everything hairless.

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