New structure for opera in Ireland: irish Times Article December 12th

westtip · 14-12-2009 12:38AM #1

It looks like the plan to have a "national" opera company based in Wexford is off the agenda, bu the worrying thing is it looks like we are going back to the DGOS and nothing else and with Minister Cullen in charge of Arts I wonder if he recognises the true value of the already National Opera Company we have in Ireland - Opera Theatre Company.

iRISH TIMES REVIEW SECTION SATURDAY DECEMBER 12TH

Hot news on opera, galleries merger and Abbey | DEIRDRE FALVEY, Arts Editor

THE THREE galleries – National Gallery, Imma and Crawford – will now not be amalgamated, the Minister for Arts, Martin Cullen, has decided, but the National Gallery and Crawford will merge, while Imma remains a stand-alone institution. The Abbey looks very likely to be relocated to the GPO by 2016, and the current feasibility study sounds like a formality. Lastly,the decision on how a new national opera company in Dublin will be established in 2010 will be taken within three months.
Whew.

The Minister was in decisive form the morning after the Budget. He was relatively happy that the arguments made about the importance of the arts had held some sway. And while there are significant cuts, particularly for the Arts Council, the threat to the Irish Film Board and Culture Ireland is gone – “and for good reason”, he says. What made the difference in arguing for the cultural agenda? “Farmleigh was a surprise. It made everybody sit up and think differently about the arts.” It was followed through “at the highest levels”, with presentations to the Oireachtas committee, and the National Campaign for the Arts, plus the economic reports that quantified the contribution of culture to employment and the economy. Our international reputation was significant. “Ireland won 70 global awards last year,” he says. “The Cabinet was very impressed with that.” So “everything helped” in negotiations.

And there are big cultural developments to come, about which the Minister was very open. “I’m going to merge, with their consent, the Crawford and the National Gallery,” he says. “They’re quite happy; it makes sense. The Crawford would like to be part of the National Gallery set-up. I’ve never believed in putting Imma and the National Gallery together, and I think it would be wrong. They have very important, distinct remits, and I’m going to keep them separate. They might do joint marketing abroad or some synergies in that area, but in terms of their own distinctiveness, their own programming, their own directors, their own raison d’être, I’m not going down that road.”

There has been speculation about where the idea emanated. “I was astonished when this thing was proposed,” the Minister says. It was from “the bowels of Finance”, not Arts. “It would be a terrible loss to Ireland. You would gain nothing from putting them together – you would lose. It’s been my view from the beginning, but I had to go through a process.”

He is emphatic that a national opera company based in Dublin will be set up in 2010. “I always had this idea about a national company, but I never saw Wexford as the home for it, albeit it has a fabulous theatre. Wexford Opera has created an international brand, and it could and should do more with that brand.” But, he says, “I don’t think a national opera company in any country would work outside its capital”, and he feels the Wexford festival would get lost in the larger opera company. Parallel with Wexford, a new opera company will emerge from Opera Ireland and Opera Touring Company, and he wants to finalise details and structures on how this will work within three months. “This would be driven from the Department, working with the Arts Council and the two opera companies.”

There will be a “brand new structure with a new mission and a whole new set of objectives. The two companies will disappear.” There will be some “debt issues”, and “we’d resolve those, because we don’t want to set it up on the wrong footing, and give them a clean, brand new slate so they are not starting off with financial baggage. We’ll have to bite the bullet on the residual debt.”

A national opera company is a “missing link in the armoury. The logical thing is to put the two opera companies in Dublin together – this idea of trying to put the three of them together and place it in Wexford wasn’t workable, and I don’t think it was the right thing to do anyway.”

Following the Arts Council’s report on opera, it announced in July that a new national opera company would be based in Wexford. Is that report dead? “I would say it is,” says the Minister, though “it was a worthwhile exercise on their behalf, and it flushed things out and brought things to a head.” This week the council said it didn’t expect to make a statement on opera until late January.

Where does that leave relations between the Department of Arts and the Arts Council? He has spoken to chairwoman Pat Moylan, and she “has no issues. She believes in the idea of a national opera company; she certainly believes in the idea that I have proposed.”

“The Arts Council was trying to do the right thing. They knew there was an issue. I don’t mind a healthy tension, but if you ask me is there a big row, blood on the table or something, I think the issue is to move on.”

With Cullen in charge of arts we have reason to worry.

JonnyBlackrock · 15-12-2009 11:26AM

Let's not hold our breath. There's more opera in an ultra-provincial German town like Darmstadt than there'll ever be in Ireland.

westtip · 15-12-2009 02:12PM

JonnyBlackrock wrote: »

Let's not hold our breath. There's more opera in an ultra-provincial German town like Darmstadt than there'll ever be in Ireland.

Jonny I absolutely agree with you and I think the danger is OTC will be wiped out and we will be back to the DGOS with a new lick of paint - but if there is going to be a new structure we need to make our voices heard as opera goers - I shudder to think about the cosy relationship Minister Cullen might come up with Opera Ireland on. I expressed a view before and again sum up what I think should happen below:

Minister Cullen says we are to get a new national opera company based in Dublin as reported in The Irish Times Saturday Review. This company will emerge from Opera Ireland (OI) and Opera Theatre Company (OTC). The Minister states the merger will be “driven from the Department, working with the Arts Council and the two opera companies”. Opera goers too, need to have a say.

Resources are scarce for the Arts; Everywhere. Music knows no boundaries. OTC are already part funded by the Northern Ireland Arts Council, (NIAC). Let’s build on that cross border operatic cooperation.

Why not work with the (NIAC) and Minister for the Arts in the NI Assembly and use these tighter fiscal times to forge an Irish Opera company jointly funded from both sides of the border; modelled on the two successful smaller UK regional opera companies - Opera North based in Leeds and Scottish Opera, based in Glasgow.

The Service Level Agreement of this company with the two Arts councils could be to produce say six operas a year, with two operas performed during three week seasons three times a year - touring the same productions to Belfast, Dublin, Cork and include Wexford Opera House - for the spring season as an alternative to Cork. This would complement Wexford Festival in the autumn. The West does not really have a suitable venue for large scale opera, although we greatly appreciate what OTC has achieved in venues like Sligo and Galway.

Belfast and Dublin could alternate as host city for each season opening. Each mini season could consist of five nights in Belfast with 3 nights of a more popular opera and two of a less popular seller. The same in Dublin; and seasons of four nights in Cork. In Dublin the company could make a break with the past – and perform at the new Grand Canal Theatre, becoming an anchor tenant and finally, throwing off the ghosts of Dublin Grand Opera Society at the Gaiety.

For the size of our country I think this is the best we could hope for. I am also sure that such a positive North/South cooperation would be a very attractive target for much needed corporate sponsorship. A flagship corporate sponsor should be sort.

We have some wonderful singing, musical and theatrical production talent in this country; this skill set, already nurtured by both OTC and OI should be the core talent of any national opera company. We have no need to import Artistic Directors.

A patron for such a company? Dare I suggest the opera loving, inaugural, First Minister of NI, David Trimble be invited to be our national opera company patron? And a name for this new company how about CO-OPERA IRELAND.

Jonny I know that OTC are worried about being morphed into a new version of Dublin Grand Opera Society - which lets face it is what we got with Opera Ireland - we as opera goers need to lend our support and give our views to Messrs Cullen and Nelson McCausland - the Minister of Arts in the North - to express a view on what could be done with Opera in Ireland using the limited resources we have from both sides of the border.

Personally I would disband Opera Ireland and give their grants directly to OTC and give OTC the brief to create an opera company along the lines I have outlined, there is actually no need for a new comapny when we have one well managed and creative company (OTC) already in place.

JonnyBlackrock · 15-12-2009 10:40PM

I nominate westtip as Ireland's new minister for opera.

westtip · 16-12-2009 12:03AM

+1 I would do it for a tenth of the salary they get paid! and love it. What do you think of the grand plan though?

Bayan · 16-12-2009 04:14AM

Excellent idea Westipp. I don't see an arrangement being worked out with NI anytime soon though. However, at least the move the whole shooting gallery to Wexford seems to be shelved - that would dilute the gem that Wexford has been in the past, and if funded properly could be maintained.
My money says.... OI and OTC merge, best case scenario being they keep the creative and production team of OTC, focus on putting smaller, better production value works opening in Dublin and touring at least two operas per year. Worse case scenario, OI gobbles OTC up. Normally I'm a pessimist, but something makes me think that this could be OTC's moment. A fine company they are. OI might just jump at it if it meant striking the crippling debt and losing some... eh.... dead wood!

Don Pizarro · 16-12-2009 11:46AM

Great idea Brendan!! Let's go for it!

westtip · 16-12-2009 12:18PM

Bayan wrote: »

Excellent idea Westipp. I don't see an arrangement being worked out with NI anytime soon though. However, at least the move the whole shooting gallery to Wexford seems to be shelved - that would dilute the gem that Wexford has been in the past, and if funded properly could be maintained.
My money says.... OI and OTC merge, best case scenario being they keep the creative and production team of OTC, focus on putting smaller, better production value works opening in Dublin and touring at least two operas per year. Worse case scenario, OI gobbles OTC up. Normally I'm a pessimist, but something makes me think that this could be OTC's moment. A fine company they are. OI might just jump at it if it meant striking the crippling debt and losing some... eh.... dead wood!

Bayan yes the worst case scenario is absolutely as you say - I think most opera goers in this country would recognise the creative talent of OTC, OI have been slipping into a mire over the past few years - but lets not make this an OTC versus OI thing

For me OTC win hands down.

I think it is very important for those of us who do really care and are in modern parlance stakeholders in this issue (and we as the audience are stakeholders) that we make sure our views are known to the Ministers in both the North and the South - We do afterall already have a national opera company in the shape of OTC, and as indicated above I for one would trust OTC if they were simply named as the preferred body, in tact to provide opera in this country - they already have the north-south links in place so why disrupt them. Minister Cullen needs to recognise this and be educated on it - maybe the best way is simply to remove the word national from the whole scenario , even the word irish or ireland and just keep out "national" opera company under the banner of OTC. OTC ain't broke so don't fix it. OI is merely DGOS in disguise. Lets move on and give the responsibility of the future of publically funded opera in this country to OTC, I know who I would trust and it ain't OI.

There is no doubt their creative excellence knocks OI into a tin hat (IMHO) and actually you only have to look at the output in the past few years to realise this.

My problem is Cullen might make this a political ego trip to make his mark on the future of opera in ireland - about creating a "centre of operatic excellence in Dublin" forgetting that he is supposed to be creating a "national" opera company - We really need to get our act together as supporters and patrons of opera in Ireland to make sure he knows what we think - will come back with another post on that one.

BTW would that dead wood be be the Swiss variety???

and BTW OTC is apparently debt free........Better run company fiscally, better creativity, does more for young artists, tours on a national basis, works and is funded already from both sides of the border, OTC are defacto our national opera company already and Minister Cullen needs to get to realise this!!!! The more I think about the argument to simply disband OI and give the mantle of national opera company to OTC the more it makes sense....

PerriBlack · 16-12-2009 05:03PM

"National" Opera company would be a joke unless funded properly, and that's not going to happen anytime soon. If OTC & OI are going to merge, don't hang the 'national' millstone around their necks, but lower expectations until funding is there. While funding is at current level, do fewer but better quality productions drawing on the creativity of OTC. When the reputation of the new company grows, then the audience and funding can grow, eventually creating a de facto national company.

westtip · 16-12-2009 05:19PM

Perri - yes well said - I think my scheme is somewhat optimistic, and thinking about it over the past couple of days I am increasingly thinking that the Minister needs to bite the bullet and recognise just what OTC has achieved and what OTC can deliver "going forward" (to use a Cowen phrase)

OTC can deliver the creative platform

OTC can deliver an established north south relationship to build upon

OTC don't carry the baggage of DGOS in disguise.

OTC is committed to developing young irish artists and talent

OTC has an Irish creative team (I don't want to get jingoistic on this but I think for a "national" opera company I think it is important to use local talent)

OTC is recognised as the creative force in Irish opera.

OTC given the challenge (and the funds curretly given to OI) will probably make a better fiscal job of it.

The branding of OTC is accepted both sides of the border and does not carry the baggage of national identity, this may sound trite but as we know in the politics of anything north/south we do need the correct pc branding. OTC as a brand name works perfectly for everyone north and south

I am increasingly moving to the idea of its OTC as the future for opera in Ireland and integrate into OTC (rather than the other way round) OI into OTC.

westtip · 17-12-2009 11:52AM

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/letters/an-irish-opera-company-is-worth-trying-14600769.html

Moved this into the northern public debating area:

Belfast Telegraph lettes page December 17th

An Irish opera company is worth trying

I recently had the pleasure of attending opera performances given by Leeds-based Opera North at the Belfast Grand Opera House. I also went to Derry to see a performance of Alcina by Opera Theatre Company. Going north for opera - a new take on cross-border shopping!

The Northern Ireland Arts Council is to be commended in supporting Opera North for its visits to Northern Ireland. The Arts Council also supports Opera Theatre Company, a Dublin-based opera company (with an office in Belfast) which tours to venues throughout the island. OTC is also supported by the Dublin Arts Council.

Under a new plan for opera in the South, Dublin minister for the arts Martin Cullen recently announced that opera is to be restructured with a proposed merger of Opera Theatre Company and Opera Ireland - which does not tour - into one Dublin-based national opera company.

I am very concerned that the only touring opera company we have (both north and south) may be merged into a single, Dublin-based company that will never get beyond the Pale.

I urge opera-goers in the North to contact Culture Minister Nelson McCausland - and indeed Mr Cullen - about this matter. Opera-goers need to have their say.

Why not use these tighter financial times to forge an Irish opera company jointly funded from both sides of the border.

Such a positive North/South co-operation would be a very attractive target for much-needed corporate sponsorship.

BRENDAN QUINN

Enniscrone, Co Sligo

PerriBlack · 17-12-2009 12:08PM

Picking up from the Grand Canal Theatre thread and westtip's comments, the shape of opera could be:

New National Opera Company:
- Spring Season (13,270 seats)
-- Two productions - Full scale opera from the mainstream repertoire
-- Five performances (3+2) in Grand Canal Theatre. 2,100 seats x 5
-- One production to travel to Cork, Belfast and Wexford with one performances at each venue. 1,000 + 1,000 + 770

- Autumn Season (10,500 seats)
-- Two productions - One scale opera from mainstream repertoire, One modern work.
-- Five performances (3+2) in Grand Canal Theatre - 2,100 seats x 5

- Touring (12,000 seats)
-- Four productions - smaller scale works suitable for touring to towns and smaller cities of Ireland (and also to UK?)
-- 10 performances of each (average 300 seats)

Wexford Festival
- 18 day Autumn Festival (19,860 seats)
-- Three full size productions of rare opera, six performances of each. 770 x 18
-- Three small scale productions, five afternoon performances of each. 400 x 15

This would give us, the opera audience a choice of 7 full scale productions and seven smaller works, with a total of over 55,000 seats. I believe, that with good quality productions and sensible pricing, that there is demand in Ireland for this.

Do the Ministers for Arts in North and Republic and the two Arts Councils have the vision and the financial support for this?

westtip · 17-12-2009 01:56PM

PerriBlack wrote: »

Picking up from the Grand Canal Theatre thread and westtip's comments, the shape of opera could be:

New National Opera Company:
- Spring Season (13,270 seats)
-- Two productions - Full scale opera from the mainstream repertoire
-- Five performances (3+2) in Grand Canal Theatre. 2,100 seats x 5
-- One production to travel to Cork, Belfast and Wexford with one performances at each venue. 1,000 + 1,000 + 770

- Autumn Season (10,500 seats)
-- Two productions - One scale opera from mainstream repertoire, One modern work.
-- Five performances (3+2) in Grand Canal Theatre - 2,100 seats x 5

- Touring (12,000 seats)
-- Four productions - smaller scale works suitable for touring to towns and smaller cities of Ireland (and also to UK?)
-- 10 performances of each (average 300 seats)

Wexford Festival
- 18 day Autumn Festival (19,860 seats)
-- Three full size productions of rare opera, six performances of each. 770 x 18
-- Three small scale productions, five afternoon performances of each. 400 x 15

This would give us, the opera audience a choice of 7 full scale productions and seven smaller works, with a total of over 55,000 seats. I believe, that with good quality productions and sensible pricing, that there is demand in Ireland for this.

Do the Ministers for Arts in North and Republic and the two Arts Councils have the vision and the financial support for this?

Perri I like your thinking - it goes pretty much along the lines that I have tried to float out. I think the numbers you mentioned could be worked on - eg Wexford had already cut to 12 days and I think is unlikely to go back to 18 with the larger theatre, I like your pick up on the numbers I threw out on the Grand Canal thread - you have clearly picked up on the points made, I actually don't see why the Spring season can't twour two main stream operas to Belfast etc, but I guess it will all come down to the level of opera going public. Taking your last point about the Ministes for North South and the two arts councils having the vision and the financial support - I actually think the answer is yes and no!

The cross border collaboration that already exists with OTC is great - and I am increasingly thinking if it ain't broke don't fix it - but improve it.

My point is this if Cullen goes marching North and puts an idea in front of McCausland - for a national opera company it could come unstuck and muddied in all the politicing that may go on.

There will be a "not invented here" mentality from both of them.

However if Cullen said to McCausland - this OTC is a great project we have in place - Why not add to it:

We will throw into the pot the support we already give OI (and wind OI up)

You can look at giving some of the support money you pay to bring companies like Opera North across the water.

And - we will jointly give OTC the brief to deliver to the opera going public of the North and the South the following:

then map out what you want them to do.

I am increasingly thinking that its not about dismantling both companies and rebuilding a new one - but taking the better one (IMO) OTC and the one with the established northern connections and making it better - and frankly letting OI go. a hard sell to OI I know, and probably a hard pill for both the Arts council and Department to take.

I am thinking of working on a submission to Cullen on this subject from a lobby group - we could call ourselves something like Operagoers Ireland - Any thoughts anyone?

Sandwich · 17-12-2009 08:48PM

PerriBlack wrote: »

New National Opera Company:
- Spring Season (13,270 seats)
-- Two productions - Full scale opera from the mainstream repertoire
-- Five performances (3+2) in Grand Canal Theatre. 2,100 seats x 5
-- One production to travel to Cork, Belfast and Wexford with one performances at each venue. 1,000 + 1,000 + 770

- Autumn Season (10,500 seats)
-- Two productions - One scale opera from mainstream repertoire, One modern work.
-- Five performances (3+2) in Grand Canal Theatre - 2,100 seats x 5

- Touring (12,000 seats)
-- Four productions - smaller scale works suitable for touring to towns and smaller cities of Ireland (and also to UK?)
-- 10 performances of each (average 300 seats)

Wexford Festival
- 18 day Autumn Festival (19,860 seats)
-- Three full size prtoductions of rare opera, six performances of each. 770 x 18
-- Three small scale productions, five afternoon performances of each. 400 x 15

Observations and questions, (not criticism!):
- is the plan that different from the present OI+OTC offering other than being provided by one company ?
- the 5 performance schedule in GCT. Very big theatre. Would the performances have to be spread to two weekends to get the numbers. More nights in a smaller theatre (Gaiety) probably permits most interested punters to get to a performance - fewer or midweek nights might have people unable to make it
- 18 nights is probably too long for Wexford in the new theatre(without adding a further major production (even a middle ranking rarity rather than the out and out obscure)
- Wexford, though it does have its local followers, outside the festival, has it really the indiginous interest to be on the tour rota for the larger productions?
- I would suggest some effort to go west (Galway, Limerick, Sligo), despite no obvious theatre. Anyone familiar with the concert hall in UL? Is it a concert hall only?
- anyone know how the OTC ventures to our smaller towns (Dundalk, Ennis, Navan etc) worked out financially? Or was it fulfillment of an obligation? Are they a drain or earner?
- the four small production: I think that is more than OTC managed on average.
- sorry for the Dublin bias.....but I think it probably could sustain a bit more itself. In recent years the NCH would have had roughly half a dozen semi or concert productions (from the good to mediocre to embarrasing) per year with reasonable turnouts. And Helix concert hall and theatre sporadically. But not in a 2100 seat theatre.

To clarify from the GCT thread, by the Helix I was referring to is 'middle size' theatre. They did put some on in the concert hall, now and again (excellent Mozart from Armonico Consort a few years ago) as well, but its not a theatre.

The comparisons made elsewhere with Opera North and Scottish Opera are valid and a useful guide on what might be achieved here - even if we are an even smaller opera population.

PerriBlack · 17-12-2009 09:05PM

Sandwich wrote: »

Observations and questions, (not criticism!):
- is the plan that different from the present OI+OTC offering other than being provided by one company ?
- the 5 performance schedule in GCT. Very big theatre. Would the performances have to be spread to two weekends to get the numbers. More nights in a smaller theatre (Gaiety) probably permits most interested punters to get to a performance - fewer or midweek nights might have people unable to make it
- 18 nights is probably too long for Wexford in the new theatre(without adding a further major production (even a middle ranking rarity rather than the out and out obscure)
- Wexford, though it does have its local followers, outside the festival, has it really the indiginous interest to be on the tour rota for the larger productions?
- I would suggest some effort to go west (Galway, Limerick, Sligo), despite no obvious theatre. Anyone familiar with the concert hall in UL? Is it a concert hall only?
- anyone know how the OTC ventures to our smaller towns (Dundalk, Ennis, Navan etc) worked out financially? Or was it fulfillment of an obligation? Are they a drain or earner?
- the four small production: I think that is more than OTC managed on average.
- sorry for the Dublin bias.....but I think it probably could sustain a bit more itself. In recent years the NCH would have had roughly half a dozen semi or concert productions (from the good to mediocre to embarrasing) per year with reasonable turnouts. And Helix concert hall and theatre sporadically. But not in a 2100 seat theatre.

Good points.
- the plan is not hugely different from OI + OTC, but it would make sense to share resources. The principle difference is bringing mainstream opera to Belfast, Cork and Wexford, thus meeting the "National" remit. Ultimately OI is not successful, though OTC is.
- as per westipp's post, the seat numbers for 5 nights in CGT match the 8 nights in the Gaiety. Remember Gaiety sight lines are poor and acoustics can be dodgy, presumably GCT will be better.
- 18 nights would probably work in Wexford as the world comes out of recession, remember they seem to have a large international audience. They were effectively sold out with 12 nights this year.
- The presence of the Opera House in Wexford is likely to bring in a crowd, because of the acoustics and sight lines. The local crowd are opera fanatics, but rarely get to see mainstream opera. I gather the MetHD is going well there.
- The west doesn't have the same tradition of Opera as the coastal towns and cities of east and south coasts, nor is there an appropriate venue. Better hunting ground for the smaller touring productions. There is a serious tradition of Opera in Cork, Belfast and Wexford. In particular Cork is very poorly served.
- I gather the OTC ventures in the smaller towns are dependant heavily on the Arts Council subsidy, but it makes sense as it is an effective way of spreading the art.
- Four tours from the OTC part of the new company - surely Ireland deserves it!. Perhaps start with three and work up.
- Dublin is the capital after all. It must be one of the most poorly served for Opera in the European Union. The new plan needs to be structured and financed so that it delivers good opera in Dublin on a regular basis in is financially stable.

Ultimately, I don't think the funding will be there to do it properly.....

westtip · 17-12-2009 10:30PM

Sandwich wrote: »

Observations and questions, (not criticism!):
- is the plan that different from the present OI+OTC offering other than being provided by one company ?.

Good point - there is an issue here about how Cullen intends to merge two very different companies. One doing a good job on its brief to tour small scale chamber opera to as wide an audience as possible (OCT) and one supposedly offering full scale opera productions twice a year in Das Kapital (and not really doing a great job - OI)

Scottish opera do achieve to merge the two - and I think they are a good model for us to look at.

Sandwich wrote: »

- the 5 performance schedule in GCT. Very big theatre. Would the performances have to be spread to two weekends to get the numbers. More nights in a smaller theatre (Gaiety) probably permits most interested punters to get to a performance - fewer or midweek nights might have people unable to make it.

Very valid points but it maybe a hurdle/handicap that has to be accepted. If they performed Wed/thur/Fri/ Sat and Sunday afternoon matinee that would be a good run the saturday and sunda matinee allows us travellers from the Stix to make a weekend of it.

Sandwich wrote: »

- 18 nights is probably too long for Wexford in the new theatre(without adding a further major production (even a middle ranking rarity rather than the out and out obscure)
- Wexford, though it does have its local followers, outside the festival, has it really the indiginous interest to be on the tour rota for the larger productions??.

I too cannot see Wexford ever going back to 18 nights (not for a long time anyway. The sold well this year which surprised me - I would only put Wexford on the tour for Spring and in the Autumn go to Cork.

Sandwich wrote: »

- I would suggest some effort to go west (Galway, Limerick, Sligo), despite no obvious theatre. Anyone familiar with the concert hall in UL? Is it a concert hall only?.

I have been to the UL concert hall - not suitable for staged opera - lovely venue for music and the national youth orchestra Ring cycle in 2002 was a landmark in irish opera history (and sold out), but it was a concert ring - and brilliant by the way! If you are going to bring opera west on a larger scale than otc it has to be a sure fire seller like boheme, and I would suggest as a venue the theatre royal at the TF in Castlebar - now there is one you have never heard of!!! http://www.theroyal.ie/ I have seen opera in worse venues believe me.

Once a year with one popular opera why not?? Ellen Kent opera bought boheme there about six years ago and it sold out!!!

Sandwich wrote: »

- anyone know how the OTC ventures to our smaller towns (Dundalk, Ennis, Navan etc) worked out financially? Or was it fulfillment of an obligation? Are they a drain or earner?
- the four small production: I think that is more than OTC managed on average..

I've seen OTC in various locations - they sell well in the Hawkswell with the more popular operas of course - but this kind of touring is their raison d'etre and the reason they receive grants.

Sandwich wrote: »

- sorry for the Dublin bias.....but I think it probably could sustain a bit more itself. In recent years the NCH would have had roughly half a dozen semi or concert productions (from the good to mediocre to embarrasing) per year with reasonable turnouts. And Helix concert hall and theatre sporadically. But not in a 2100 seat theatre. .

I accept the need for critical mass in Dublin - I will travel to Dublin or Belfast for opera in ireland from Sligo, but I am thinking we need to copy a successful formula which is why I use Scottish Opera as the model.

Sandwich wrote: »

To clarify from the GCT thread, by the Helix I was referring to is 'middle size' theatre. They did put some on in the concert hall, now and again (excellent Mozart from Armonico Consort a few years ago) as well, but its not a theatre.

The comparisons made elsewhere with Opera North and Scottish Opera are valid and a useful guide on what might be achieved here - even if we are an even smaller opera population.

Well yes a smaller opera population but really we manage to get OI to sell say 9000 tickets in Dublin twice a year. Opera North played to good houses in Belfast, (probably about 4000/5000) the Met opera performances are selling well in our cinemas, What I am saying is a reasonable national opera company providing opera in the suitable venues we have: Belfast Grand opera house, Dublin Gaiety or GCT, cork Opera house and Wexford Opera house. and the audience can be built. Lets not be pessimistic!

Sandwich · 17-12-2009 10:55PM

westtip wrote: »

and I would suggest as a venue the theatre royal at the TF in Castlebar - now there is one you have never heard of!!!!

As it happens........
Admittedly, havent been in its current incarnation, but was in its simpler predecessor many years ago for The (Little) Magic Flute (English Touring Opera I think??). Present setup looks fine.

westtip · 22-12-2009 10:48AM

I just want to gather some thoughts together here and see if we can take this process a stage further - and if anyone is willling to sign up to what I suggest.

There is reason to be both optimistic and pessimistic about the future of opera in ireland.

Wexford offers what it does and attracts visitors - and is there to be ticked off by the international opera going nerds! Plus a loyal customer base going back and forth every year. It has its moments is a good festival a great house and it seems is going to retain its integrity.

OTC does what it is briefed to do very well. It is solvent well managed well marketed and is creative. For me it is the opera goers opera company yet it manages to reach out beyond that tiny minority of us. It has achieved so much in a short space of time, it has north south support and loyalty and could build on this.

OI is for me anyway still the lingering DGOS, and it has money problems - it also has creative problems (in my book), the current Artistic Director is a loose cannon. The brief to perform the standard repertoire of international opera is difficult without the money to put it on. I personally don't think it can be fixed.

In the North an opera going public is being built with two visits in recent years by the excellent Opera North, OTC has the north well and truly covered and other smaller UK opera companies like Opera UK make visits. The north also has its "event" opera in the summer at Castleward.

We have a new opportunity in the announcement from Minister Cullen, but IMO we need to express our views as opera goers to him about not only what we want but what we think is achievable. My original plan was really to be something we can aim for - maybe to achieve in four or five years time - and why not? I think we all have to recognise there will be less money for opera - and Cullen will not support two opera companies. the pot will also reduce int he north - now is the time to say well if overall funding is coming down on both sides of the border is now not the time to throw all the money in one pot and actually have something wothwhile.

If I get time over christmas I intend working on a submission document to Minister Cullen but it can't be sent in from one person- when I have finished it I will post it up - and if anyone else wants to add their own views a a group of us can make a submission to Cullen. So any thoughts apart from what we have already posted up.

mambo · 30-12-2009 09:17AM

Letter from today's Irish Times...

A national opera company

Madam, – Michael Dervan considers it a high point for opera in 2009 that Minister for Arts Martin Cullen has said we are to get a new national opera company based in Dublin (Arts, December 16th).

The new “national opera company” will, according to the Minister, emerge from Opera Ireland (OI) and Opera Theatre Company (OTC). This merger he says will be “driven from the department, working with the Arts Council and the two opera companies”.

Opera-goers as well as opera reviewers, need to have a say. As an opera-goer, I give it a cautious welcome.

Resources are scarce for the arts – everywhere. Opera Theatre Company is already part funded by the Northern Ireland Arts Council, (NIAC). Let’s build on that cross- Border operatic co-operation to build our “national” opera company.

Opera Theatre Company is de facto our “national” opera company already in existence; this aspect needs to be developed further. Opera Theatre Company is solvent and its raison d’être is to tour opera to all parts of our island. The company should be the platform to build our “national” opera company.

We can use these tighter fiscal times to forge an Irish opera company jointly funded from both sides of the Border; modelled on the two successful smaller UK regional opera companies – Opera North based in Leeds and Scottish Opera, based in Glasgow.

An opera company with a target to tour five or six productions to Belfast, Dublin, Cork and possibly Wexford (for a short spring season) should be what we are aiming for and not a mere reincarnation of Dublin Grand Opera Society.

I am sure such a positive North/South co-operation would be a very attractive target for much-needed corporate sponsorship. A flagship Irish corporate sponsor could also be sought for such a venture.

My fear is that the Minister sees Opera Theatre Company as an unnecessary expense and really as far as opera is concerned he is not prepared to look beyond the Pale. – Yours, etc,

BRENDAN QUINN,

Enniscrone,

Co Sligo.

Sandwich · 30-12-2009 11:36AM

Well done our Sligo colleague. Hopefully it generates some public debate - particularly highlighting the risk of loosing the OTC component if it is simply subsumed.

Are there other channels for the opera-goer to voice an opinion before this upcoming change is implemented (if it isn't already a done deal) ?

- Do the members/patrons groups of OI and OTC have any formal forum for feedback to the companies?

- Does the Arts Council listen to the public in any useful way ?

- The Minister and his department ?

Despite having no knowledge or involvement in the business of opera, simply as a 'consumers' of opera, and members of the public, we should have some official avenue to present our views.

westtip · 30-12-2009 01:38PM

Sandwich wrote: »

Well done our Sligo colleague. Hopefully it generates some public debate - particularly highlighting the risk of loosing the OTC component if it is simply subsumed.

Are there other channels for the opera-goer to voice an opinion before this upcoming change is implemented (if it isn't already a done deal) ?

- Do the members/patrons groups of OI and OTC have any formal forum for feedback to the companies?

- Does the Arts Council listen to the public in any useful way ?

- The Minister and his department ?

Despite having no knowledge or involvement in the business of opera, simply as a 'consumers' of opera, and members of the public, we should have some official avenue to present our views.

Mambo thanks for posting the letter into the thread, It took several attempts redrafts and re-edits to finally get the Times to print - hopefully it will garner some debate similar to the letters they gave space to about the GPO/Abbey plan - the Opera Company issue is of equal imporantance for theatre goers in Ireland.

Sandwish taking up your point - yes we can have a say and I hope the Irish Times will pick up on the letter and allow responses - I really do believe that Cullen will otherwise drive OTC into the ground and we will end up with DGOS 3 (DGOS 1, OI= DGOS2, National Dublin Based Opera Company = DGOS3); I really do believe the Northern Ireland Arts Council/ Irish Arts council acting together is the white knight plan - My ideas are now fairly well formulated and as someone with no involvement in the arts/opera apart from just wanting to buy tickets and go - but with some business acument and a level of intelligence and vision of which I have faith in - I do think we need to act as a group of interested people to act on this matter.... Rambling now but will come back on it.

In the meantime start drafting your letters to expand the idea I have now put into the public debate that is the Irish Times letters page!

Regarding your specific issues then the answer is yes - in a democracy we have to express our views

Sandwich wrote: »

Do the members/patrons groups of OI and OTC have any formal forum for feedback to the companies .

- go to www.opera.ie and click on the discussions pages for OTC. The letters I've sent to the Belfasst Telegraph and IT are both posted up there

Sandwich wrote: »

Does the Arts Council listen to the public in any useful way.

I don't know is the answer to that we need to research who we should be targetting at the arts council

Sandwich wrote: »

The Minister and his department .

He absolutely must be targetted as must our local TDs, certainly from the Sligo perspective if we lose OTC touring we lose OTC trips to the Hawkswell. The managers of regional theatre's also need to be targetted. But yes deffo the Ministersw office must be bombarded with expressions and opnions on this matter.

Sligo Correspondent. - morre to come on this matter!

westtip · 11-03-2010 03:32PM

Thought would resurect this thread - now that MC has resigned due to his health problems might be the best thread to develop thought on where we go now with opera in ireland, as opposed to the whats on where thread.

New structure for opera in Ireland: irish Times Article December 12th

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